Official Samsung UNXXD6000 Owners' Thread - Page 42

How the Canon 5D MkII full frame sensor captured the screen.


Here's a PS'd version of the same image as it would look to the naked eye in a dark room. (SEE BELOW)

A Brand New Out-Of-The-Box Samsung UN55D6000 displaying severe black level issues during a S&M Low Pluge test.... yup it failed the test! (The color splotch in the upper center of the screen is a reflection from deep inside the room on the panels glossy surface.)


No offense, but your comments here are what companies like Samsung count on. They have figured out how to make their sets look great under average signal intensity conditions so that the average joe would think they're getting a fabulous picture. And in the scheme of things, most of the time they are.... and that's all that counts... right?

But guys like me (and there are many) who are responsible for the delicious images you all crave to see on your HD sets have a different take & perspective on the technical performance that these sets provide. Trust me when I say that TV manufacturers have the engineering means to bring you the best freaking black-level pictures you'll ever see, but they are more concerned with profit margins than whether black levels are true and anomaly free.

So okay... you wish to improve your set... fine... nothing wrong with that.... but I will simply but sadly say that you can try and adjust, tweak, or calibrate this model until your brains ooze from your nose, you're NOT going to ever improve these inherent design flaws.

Wow... that set appears very bad, and your experience certainly doesn't match the reviews out there from many reputable sources. I would return that set, if I were you. I would have to crank up my backlight and brightness to get anything close to the darkest part of the screen in your picture (which would make ANY set look horrible, BTW).

I have a September 2011 build date 46" and the screen has nowhere near the issues your set is displaying, and provides an excellent picture under all but the most extreme conditions - again, I recommend returning the set.

However, there was no need to post almost exactly the same thing twice (with the same picture, even), and you seem to be more intent on slagging Samsung than providing productive insight.

Sorry for the pix repost... I thought it necessary to drive the point... and yes as previously stated, this set was returned, but sadly it was the third set after three consecutive exchanges... they all had similar issues.

The point is, the set is fabulous when viewing material shot in the mid range...(but horrible in the low range). I'll guarantee you that your 6000 will display the same issues when professionally tested.

I have no problem with low-level pluge tests using Avia or Video Essentials. In fact, it's much better than most of the sets I have tested or calibrated, despite the mild clouding and flashlighting. Perhaps I just happened to receive a good example, or all of the other sets I have tested were bad.

Believe me, I am extremely critical of video equipment (obsessive, to be honest). My wife hates it when I buy new equipment because she knows I will spend the next few hours (days, weeks) examining every nuance under all conditions, calibrating and re-calibrating, comparing video sources, comparing the same scenes from the same movies from different sources (yes, the same movie on HD/DVR, HD-DVD, Blu-ray, and DVD to match the settings on various inputs), rewinding and pausing scenes during TV broadcasts, etc. What I have found after 18 years in the IT field and over 13 years of experience being a video aficionado and overly-obsessive person is that there is no perfect video technology. They all have their flaws, whether it is CRT (direct-view, front or rear projection), LCD (in all its incarnations), DLP, LCoS, plasma, etc., and every technology has its compromises.

Agreed, everything is a compromise....

Too bad edge lit LED sets are all the rave these days... they're too software dependent and lack the essential engineering to produce accurate and consistent black levels... and too bad Samsung was forced to abandon (for now) local dimming technology... it appears SONY has recently paid (as of 9/11) to use the technology in their up and coming set designs where Samsung is still litigating with Sharp, Osram and Dolby over damages.

Has anyone been able to watch Amazon Video On Demand on the UNxxD6000? I couldn't find Amazon app or Yahoo! Widgets on my UN55D6000. Also, I can watch video from my hard drive attached to the 1st usb port, but what are the 2nd and 3rd usb ports are for, aside from attaching a wifi adapter?

Not sure what settings you were running to get the set to look that blue/grey but I know that with my backlight set to 20/dynamic mode in a dark room I cant get to half of that brightness.

Finally, you did buy a D6000. Bottom tier set from Samsung which had these problems well documented for months. For professional pq maybe a more expensive/higher end set would've fit your needs better. I don't think these sets are all "junk", instead they are more bang for your buck on a budget.

As stated, the screen settings were straight out-of-the-box virgin. All auto settings were disabled including the Auto-Dim feature. (I also previously stated that even after I calibrated it, the problems with bleed-through only slightly improved.) The blue grey has more to do with the daylight settings on the digital camera these pix were taken with, and less with the panel. The color hue is not the issue... obviously. (Plus the settings on your computer monitor will also have an effect.)

I believe the entire 6000 series utilizes the same panel....with the possible exception of the 3D units. The only real difference is in the image processing protocols. The LED edge lighting system is also the same. However it should be noted that this black pluge was generated and the processor did dim the set, so in fact this image is actually a little better than when it's actually playing a film/movie. In addition, your eyes are tricky little devils. They adjust as well to bright and dark scenes, so the only true way to read/analyze the screen is with a digital meter or analyzer. Even a large sensor digital camera will suffice for the purposes of capturing the unevenness of todays edge lit LED panels.

Note: I didn't mean to imply that only these sets were junk, I think the whole "LED EDGE LIT" concept is junk no matter who makes it, especially when you consider that Samsung threw away a grand opportunity to produce more licensed full array LED "local dimming (LD)" sets. But because they refused to pay up to the owners of that technology, they were ego driven and somewhat forced to revert to an inferior technology (edge lit LED's).... sad because they do produce some of the best LCD panels ever made not to mention their superb image processors! All they had to do was to admit that they stole the technology, pay the fine and then pay again to license the LD design. They had the money, but their egos prevented this. If they did pay up, no doubt this issue would be moot by now.... but sadly that didn't happen.

Hi guys,

Those picture looks REALY awfull! Can understand your point!
I'm glad, that my TV does not has clouding THAT much!
The pic looks like cloudy skies!


OT: for those who are interested in news about the 3D DEFECT

I've been to a local dealer to take some compareable pictures of a 40D8090.

I posted them in the 3D Thread.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...php?p=21019813


Best regards Jimmy

So is this the definitive proof that the D6xxx 3D models display an inferior resolution to the D7xxx while in 3D mode?
Thanks for posting your results.

Before I calibrate my D6000, I can see clouding often whenever the show/movie is at a very dark scene. I don't see it now after calibration, except in a fraction of a second when the screen is completely dark between scenes and if I look for it. I enjoy the set very much, the image is almost prefect, and I am no longer looking for the clouding. Enjoy you TV and don't continually looking for problems that may or may not be real.

Couldn't have said it any better. Mine has a little clouding and flashlighting in the corners(to be fair, it looks NOTHING like that picture above), but as mentioned, I can only see it between scenes/menus/etc. I don't focus on it and it's not a huge deal. Just like my old DLP that had the "rainbow" effect, I could definetly see it. After awhile you just don't focus on it.

Very happy 46D6000 owner here, although the firmware issue kinda stinks, and I won't download a new version until people on this thread give the all clear.

Regarding the 3D defect, it looks like all the complaints are coming from the European D6XXX series. I don't see any complaints from North American D6420 and up series. I had already post my test pictures on this link. I confirm that my 3D movies are very sharp and they are in 1080P even though some 3D movies (S3D) are better than others (2D-3D). My model is UN-60D6500.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...php?p=21019813

After I select the steaming video from Windows Media Player. I can play video from my TV. For the same video, I can't play from my Windows Media Player on my Sony laptop (wifi). I right click the video clip in the favorite list, then select play to 60D6500 TV, then it says fail to play video. TV screen shows incorrect video format. Then I try to play a video clip on my desktop (wifi), it says fail to play video, but then it start playing on the TV normally. Both computer are running Windows 7 64bit.

Anyone has the same problem

I'll confess that yes I'm very picky. But I'm a DP, HD image perfection is what I do professionally for a living. As a matter of fact, if you watch TV, you have seen my work. These Samsung models were purchased for our guest rooms in our home. As you have rightly indicated, I wasn't pleased with their performance so I couldn't "enjoy" them sadly.

Samsung TV's use a simple trick of turning off the LED's when the processor detects a black screen. (just before the credits, FTB scenes, etc) This gives the viewer the false impression that their set has no black level problems... ie flashlighting or clouding. But when the set is forced to reveal it's true black level performance, as it must during real time viewing, the truth is revealed that Edge Lit technology is inherently flawed by design.

I have a 40" Sony LCD TV bought it about 18 months ago. It has the auto dimming that is very ignoring. When the movie has dark scene, the screen become very dim and you can see any detail of the movie. There is nothing I can do about it, and I can't turn it off.

This Samsung D6xxx series has the auto dimming too. But luckily, you can turn it off by Turn off AutoMotion Plus.

.... along with dynamic contrast, and all eco settings....

I got very excited about the possibilty it was that my cable box was on 750 but I checked and it is on 1080. I tried doing both the HDMI sockets and no change. I have been watching on Movie lately (had been going between standard and the one between standard and movie) and it is not terrible but sometimes it looks washed out and other times the shadows on peoples' faces are so dark it is hard to make it out, like all the scenes are shot at night when they shouldnt look that way.

Can someone recommend a good calibration disk? I'd love to try that. Are they manufactuer/set model specific or generic?

Thanks!

Do people have preferences for performance/picture quality between these models or any good info they discovered while researching their own purchase?

UN46D6000
UN46D6300
UN46D6420

If I decide to return my 6000, I could get one of the other two. I know the 6300 has web browsing and the 6420 has 3D.

Thanks!

Have you tried some of the calibrations posted in this thread?

I'm just about ready to purchase a 55D6420. Throughout this forum I've read that there are C and H panels. Has it been concluded that one panel is better than the other?

And on another note, has anybody heard what's coming for the 2012 models? Full LED backlighting maybe?

I would recommend the UN46D6420 among these 3 sets simply because it is 3D capable. The web browser on the TV is a gimmick. I found it is very difficult to type letter on a remote control. If it works with my Bluetooth keyboard, that will be wonderful. I connect my HTPC to my TV and fulfill my computer, gaming, Youtube, internet need. With 3D capable, it bring you to the next level of watching movie. When I watch 3D movies on my UN-60D6500, it is just amazing. By the way, it is better to get a bigger screen for 3D. I return my 55" for a 60".

Did you exaggerate the picture in any way? The junk you have under the tv looks very contrasty.... I can take a picture of that exact pattern right now on my D6050 and my blacks are so deep it would impress anyone. I have minor flash lighting in the corners when the back light is set aggressively, but thats it.


Either that picture is modified, or you got a really bad set. It looks like your displaying an image of an evening SKY lol. ( obviously your not though)

I will post a pic later of that pattern on my set.

Anyone?

I have looked for the Amazon app and it just isn't there. I wish Samsung would add it but it seems they haven't been adding any apps of any kind as of late.

I believe there are many here that do not fully understand how their TV's operate. I base this on the way many have responded to the posting of the picture. Even if you do understand the concept, or are able to calibrate your set to your satisfaction which virtually "MASKS" the reality of the black processor, it's mainly due to the ability of the built-in "programming" to do whatever it takes not to show you what a true black screen will look like under most circumstances! Get it? This edge lit set hides that reality from you through processing software, where it desperately tries to not let you see it's true face most of the time but not all the time, especially when watching darkly filmed letter-boxed movies in true 16:9. There it's ugly head will reveal itself at times. I can make that screen look like yours, but that would not be a "True-ISF" calibration. It would only be a "hey, that's look good" calibration, and admittedly, that's all that matters to most... but not everyone.

Even if you were to disable all the "auto" settings, (eco, dynamic contrast, etc, etc) the untouchable auto dim feature, where the processor "TURNS OFF" the LED's completely during black screen transitions, or during start up configurations, or "ALMOST OFF" during the credits, will give the normal viewer a false sense of the TV's true black screen performance. The picture I posted is the TRUE representation of how this model TV processes and displays a true black generated image without any PROCESSING.... understand?

That's all... and yes I agree, it's all in the eye of the beholder. So now go and enjoy your overly processed false black screens. It's okay.

No the picture was NOT modified. It was shot on a Canon 5D MkII full frame sensor SLR. The sensor's sensitivity did amplify the differences in brightness, the blue was because the camera was set on daylight color temp, but the hue was not important. The unevenness of the screen along with concentrations of flash-lighting/clouding was important. Plus there are a few room reflections on the screen as earlier indicated.

Now this PS'd version is closer to what it looked like to the naked eye in a dark room for all those who are confused because it really doesn't matter... the naked eye isn't an accurate measure of reality either. (it processes and compensates for intensity, sensitivity, Kelvin temperature etc. etc. all the time without question. These variances can only be truly detected, measured, and analyzed with scientific machinery.) The bleed-through is a product of the edge lit design and there is nothing anyone can do about it.




To make a fair comparison, you must first "reset" the screen settings to the factory default, then disable all auto features including the auto-dim processing feature (I'm not speaking here of the ECO settings either) which can only be done in the "service mode", to fairly compare your screen to the picture above. This is the ONLY way to see the screen in its raw state without software processed interference with the LED backlight technology. You see, they needed to develop complicated image processing and LED controls to help compensate for the inferior (and cheaper) edge lit LED system over the full array (and more expensive) local dimming system. Do the same test on a local dimming nano TV set and the screen will be evenly lit, and inky black.

Can anyone tell me if there are threaded inserts in the back of this TV to mount to a TV stand with a mount (Z-line Sync)?

Can anyone let me know their calibration settings for their ps3 when playing video games?

Also, what do I need to set AMP on (Clear, Smooth, Standard)? I have mine on clear right now.

Thank you!

What method did you use to enter the service menu (this is my first Samsung set in a few years, and the old method does not seem to work), and what setting did you use in the service menu to disable the auto-dimming? I don't need auto dimming to make my set look good, and I find it annoying in a dark room.