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Onkyo TX-NR609, TX-NR509, TX-SR309 Thread - Page 107

post #3181 of 3823
AFAIK, with a DD/DTS surround mode selected, then the Onkyo will automatically use DD PLIIx to simulate the rear surround channels in a 7.1 setup (see p. 34 Owner's manual).
post #3182 of 3823
Quote:
Originally Posted by blporter View Post

If DD PLIIx "simulates" the audio to the rear surround speakers, does Dolby True-HD and DTS HD simply "mirror" the audio from the surround speakers to the rear surround speakers, or will no audio come out of the rear surround speakers (unless I use DD PLIIx)?
For any 5.1 digital source, if you don't have one of the upconversions on (such as PLIIx), you will not hear sound out of the rear speakers. PLIIx on will not mirror, but rather split the sound between the surround and rear speakers (same exact channel, just half volume from each). You don't lose anything, but whether or not you want this is a matter of opinion. IMO, this is closer to a speaker array found in theaters for 5.1 material rather than a point source in most home 5.1 systems.
post #3183 of 3823
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobearQSI View Post

For any 5.1 digital source, if you don't have one of the upconversions on (such as PLIIx), you will not hear sound out of the rear speakers. PLIIx on will not mirror, but rather split the sound between the surround and rear speakers (same exact channel, just half volume from each). You don't lose anything, but whether or not you want this is a matter of opinion. IMO, this is closer to a speaker array found in theaters for 5.1 material rather than a point source in most home 5.1 systems.

Until more blue-rays are recorded in 7.1, it makes me wonder if going to a 7.1 surround system will be value added. I may grow to like the "simulation", so long as it doesn't degrade the overall quality of the audio presentation. That's more important to me. For example, going from Dolby Digital to Dolby True-HD was as significant for me as going from DVD to Blu-ray. I have a large library of both DVDs and Blu-rays...but tend to watch the Blu-rays more because of their improved audio and video quality.

As I indicated earlier, I need to experiment. Thanks for the feedback.
post #3184 of 3823
Quote:
Originally Posted by blporter View Post

Until more blue-rays are recorded in 7.1, it makes me wonder if going to a 7.1 surround system will be value added. I may grow to like the "simulation", so long as it doesn't degrade the overall quality of the audio presentation. That's more important to me. For example, going from Dolby Digital to Dolby True-HD was as significant for me as going from DVD to Blu-ray. I have a large library of both DVDs and Blu-rays...but tend to watch the Blu-rays more because of their improved audio and video quality.
As I indicated earlier, I need to experiment. Thanks for the feedback.
One way to think of it, is that DTS, Dolby Digital, DTS-HD, Dolby TruHD are codecs or ways of recording audio onto a disc such as a DVD or Blu-ray. This is somewhat analogous to recording audio as an mp3 or flac file. In order to play back these files, you need equipment/software that can decode the codec or format it was recorded in. On the other hand, when you are talking about Dolby PL IIX, sound is not recorded in Dolby PL IIx since it is not a codec or format. Dolby PL IIx is a way to "fill up" your speakers with only two or five channels of actual recorded audio so that sound comes from all of your 5.1 or 7.1 surround sound system. Obviously, Dolby PL IIx is not as good as having 7.1 or even 5.1 channels of discreet sound, but, in my opinion, it does a good job of "creating" the extra channels without the echo-ey effect typically found with most of the DSP based matrix programs packaged with most multi-channel AVR's (Hall, Stadium, Jazz Club, etc.). If you do not find the added rear/back surround channels believable or otherwise adding to the sound field in your system, you can always turn them off and only use the "real" channels. Unfortunately, although many of us have 6.1 or 7.1 systems, there aren't that many Blu-ray discs that I have run across thus far that have the full compliment of 7.1 channels of discreet sound we would all love to hear. But hopefully, since the potential is there with even low end receivers now offering the decoders for DTS-HD Master and Dolby TrueHD, Hollywood will begin to include sound tracks that utilize the full potential of the format sound-wise, just as they do video-wise.smile.gif
post #3185 of 3823
Hi,
I've searched the Internet and this thread and have not found the issue I'm intermittently dealing with, the center channel when playing Dolby digital cable content is lost for awhile. It's happened sporadically and unpredictably. I've not found a reliable way to get it back. It just seems to come back after changing channels or cycling through listening modes. There is no pop or click indicating something happened. It just disappears and is dead silent. There is still audio output as you can hear the surround channels, just no vocals.

the 609 is connected to a new 70'' sharp LCD (setup last week) on the receiver output to the TV's arc input. A new comcast DVR (rrng200i i think) s connected via hdmi to the VCR/DVR input (just replaced and was the first step in trying to debug this issue). A Panasonic bluray (220) is connected to input for DVD via hdmi. The input hdmi cables are identical latest version hdmi supporting arc, 3d, etc. 4.5 foot amazon basics. The cable on the hdmi out is a mediabridge 15 footer, latest revision of hdmi.

The cable box is always on (it's a DVR) and is set to output 1080i. He lost center channel with this box today and several times with the other box,.

It also happened before I went to hdmi. I was using only the digital coax and optical for the audio from the old cable box. This receiver replace an onkyo 575x that never lost center channel audio.

Anyone hear of this or experience this ? The receiver has had audyssey setup and the latest firmware updated and that's about it. I'm thinking the issue is this receiver dealing with the audio stream since it never happened before and has happened a half dozen times since introducing the receiver into my ht.

Any help would be appreciated. I'm still in my return window, so returning is an option, or making another receiver choice.
Best,
Jeff
post #3186 of 3823
Quote:
Originally Posted by greeno View Post

Hi,
I've searched the Internet and this thread and have not found the issue I'm intermittently dealing with, the center channel when playing Dolby digital cable content is lost for awhile. It's happened sporadically and unpredictably.

 

Is it this problem:

 

http://www.whathifi.com/news/update-onkyo-issues-product-recall-for-selected-2011-models

 

http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/home-theater-receivers-processors-amps/56387-onkyo-recall-notice.html

post #3187 of 3823
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

^^
You should be able to log into your Pandora account via a PC or laptop and inactivate it there.

Thanks but I didn't mean to deactivate my Pandora account, only to remove it from the receiver. I found out how to do this. Seemingly there's no "remove user" option, only an "add user" one, but you can just select the one you want to delete, and the user and pw will come up below it, then manually delete the information there until it's blank and save.
post #3188 of 3823
Hi Tesla,
I had checked the serial number against those on the onkyo site and my unit doesn't seem to be affected. Tonight though I reseated the center channel connections to the binding posts on the receiver. these are setup with banana plugs. the connections might have just been lose.
Thanks,
jeff
Edited by greeno - 6/14/12 at 7:17am
post #3189 of 3823
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redbeemer View Post

One way to think of it, is that DTS, Dolby Digital, DTS-HD, Dolby TruHD are codecs or ways of recording audio onto a disc such as a DVD or Blu-ray. This is somewhat analogous to recording audio as an mp3 or flac file. In order to play back these files, you need equipment/software that can decode the codec or format it was recorded in. On the other hand, when you are talking about Dolby PL IIX, sound is not recorded in Dolby PL IIx since it is not a codec or format. Dolby PL IIx is a way to "fill up" your speakers with only two or five channels of actual recorded audio so that sound comes from all of your 5.1 or 7.1 surround sound system. Obviously, Dolby PL IIx is not as good as having 7.1 or even 5.1 channels of discreet sound, but, in my opinion, it does a good job of "creating" the extra channels without the echo-ey effect typically found with most of the DSP based matrix programs packaged with most multi-channel AVR's (Hall, Stadium, Jazz Club, etc.). If you do not find the added rear/back surround channels believable or otherwise adding to the sound field in your system, you can always turn them off and only use the "real" channels. Unfortunately, although many of us have 6.1 or 7.1 systems, there aren't that many Blu-ray discs that I have run across thus far that have the full compliment of 7.1 channels of discreet sound we would all love to hear. But hopefully, since the potential is there with even low end receivers now offering the decoders for DTS-HD Master and Dolby TrueHD, Hollywood will begin to include sound tracks that utilize the full potential of the format sound-wise, just as they do video-wise.smile.gif

Thank you for your comments as well. I'm impressed with the level of professionalism and expertise that fills the AVS Forum blogs. I never expected to get this many thoughtful replies to my inquiry.
post #3190 of 3823
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy o View Post

Thanks but I didn't mean to deactivate my Pandora account, only to remove it from the receiver. I found out how to do this. Seemingly there's no "remove user" option, only an "add user" one, but you can just select the one you want to delete, and the user and pw will come up below it, then manually delete the information there until it's blank and save.

Great ... simple enough. Thanks for sharing. smile.gif
post #3191 of 3823
Hey!

I have a TX-NR609 w/ Polk RT55i and CSI3 setup. Ive ran the audyssey setup multiple times but get the same result: very harsh highs when playing at -10db to 0db.
It's like a pin is piercing my ears. I checked the speakers and they all look physically fine.
At -15db and lower, I think it's balanced. Beyond the highs seem to fluctuate more. I experience this mostly on DTS-HD/TruHD audio.

Any similar setup or experience?
Could it be tinnitus-related?
post #3192 of 3823
^^
They are small bookshelf speakers. Do you have a sub in your setup? Are the speaker crossovers set to at least 80hz? What is the size of your room?
post #3193 of 3823
Hello,

I have a NR609 and when I hooked up my Dune D1 to it and played back 23.976 content I was getting frame drops. I read in this thread that some were experiencing problems with the NR609 and 23.976. I don't know if this has been confirmed yet, but I was able to test my 609 and my Dune D1 with a Quantum Data 882E.

The Onkyo is set to Through and all audio sync settings were off. I set the Video Mode on the Dune D1 to 23.976 and measured using only the Dune GUI.

Here is the result of the Dune output fed directly to the 882E
2lo6sew.jpg

Here is the result of the Dune -> 609 -> 882E
349fibt.jpg

You can see that the timing out of the 609 is incorrect. I have measured two other devices that I know do proper 23.976 with the 882E and they show 23.978 as well (I'm not sure if that is the actual timing or there is some weird rounding in the 882, I should contact QD).

After connecting the Dune directly to my TV I no longer experienced frame drops. I have only had the Dune for a short time but I feel this is pretty conclusive evidence that the 609 has an issue with 23.976.

I have contacted Onkyo Support but not heard back from them yet.
post #3194 of 3823
I had the frame drop problem as well - suspected it was invalid timing because the drops occurred at a regular interval, I just didn't have anything to actually measure it.

I calculated the same results as you were seeing - that the video was .006 fps off, because I would get the drop every 2 minutes 47 seconds.

Upgrading to the March 16 2012 firmware (1131-1400-0010-8106) fixed it for me - what version are you on?
post #3195 of 3823
Thank you for the response BobearQSI.

You know, sometimes the easiest solutions are the hardest to find.

I updated the firmware and now the timing is correct.

2nr11f9.jpg

The horizontal timing is still off ever so slightly, but I don't think that will matter much.

My server is down at the moment, when I get it back up I will test with some streaming video and confirm if the issue is resolved.

Here is a shot of the firmware version for confirmation.

25zlb4l.jpg
post #3196 of 3823
Hello, I'm having a problem with my Xbox and my 709. I have it set to straight decode Dolby. If I watch a video on Amazon it switches to stereo but if I play a game that has Dolby the receiver stays on stereo and won't switch to Dolby. any ideas?
post #3197 of 3823
Hi JD, I'm kinda delay.
Yes an older velodyne sub, xover@80Hz, and room size 15x10.
Not to mention, it is fatiguing in a 2 hr movie.
post #3198 of 3823
Sounds like the limitation is your speakers and sub.
post #3199 of 3823
I wasn't able to get the auto HDMI switching to work, but I needed something because I have four HDMI devices and my tv only has two ports. So what I decided to do is have my remote turn the receiver on, switch to the the correct input, then switch off the receiver.

The problem is sometimes it won't turn on the receiver. I have a Harmony one and tried changing the power on signal from 1.5 MS to 3 MS, I think I may have tried longer as well but I'd have to go back and double check.

Any suggestions?
post #3200 of 3823
Quote:
Originally Posted by blporter View Post

Until more blue-rays are recorded in 7.1, it makes me wonder if going to a 7.1 surround system will be value added. I may grow to like the "simulation", so long as it doesn't degrade the overall quality of the audio presentation. That's more important to me. For example, going from Dolby Digital to Dolby True-HD was as significant for me as going from DVD to Blu-ray. I have a large library of both DVDs and Blu-rays...but tend to watch the Blu-rays more because of their improved audio and video quality.
As I indicated earlier, I need to experiment. Thanks for the feedback.

Well I hooked up my amp and surround back speakers and it does make a difference. I tested the 7.1 setup with Transformers: Dark Side of the Moon on Blu-ray and it's awesome. I then tested several DVDs and found that DD PLIIx and Dolby EX pretty much sounded the same, but wasn't bad at all. Can't wait for more videos to come out in native 7.1 sound.
post #3201 of 3823
Quote:
Originally Posted by blporter View Post

Well I hooked up my amp and surround back speakers and it does make a difference. I tested the 7.1 setup with Transformers: Dark Side of the Moon on Blu-ray and it's awesome. I then tested several DVDs and found that DD PLIIx and Dolby EX pretty much sounded the same, but wasn't bad at all. Can't wait for more videos to come out in native 7.1 sound.

Reading through this page, I'm amazed how the debate is still going on after all these years.

I'm yet to hear a single 5.1 soundmix that doesn't sound more spacious, immersive and three-dimensional when matrixed out to 7.1

(Far more worthwhile than height or width channels, which are more a product of marketing than anything else)

We should always remember that films are mixed to be heard across multiple surround speakers - not a single pair!!
post #3202 of 3823
Quote:
Originally Posted by Electric_Haggis View Post

Reading through this page, I'm amazed how the debate is still going on after all these years.
I'm yet to hear a single 5.1 soundmix that doesn't sound more spacious, immersive and three-dimensional when matrixed out to 7.1
(Far more worthwhile than height or width channels, which are more a product of marketing than anything else)
We should always remember that films are mixed to be heard across multiple surround speakers - not a single pair!!

The Transformers video contained an option to select 7.1 surround or 5.1 surround for playback. When I selected 7.1, there were distinct sounds on all 7 channels. So, in this case, the receiver didn't have to simulate what would go in the 2 extra channels.
post #3203 of 3823
Quote:
Originally Posted by blporter View Post

The Transformers video contained an option to select 7.1 surround or 5.1 surround for playback. When I selected 7.1, there were distinct sounds on all 7 channels. So, in this case, the receiver didn't have to simulate what would go in the 2 extra channels.

Yep, discretely encoded 7.1 channel audio can really add to your overall movie experience. It's a real shame very few Blu-ray disc movies are encoded with it...
post #3204 of 3823
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeeMoreDigital View Post

Yep, discretely encoded 7.1 channel audio can really add to your overall movie experience. It's a real shame very few Blu-ray disc movies are encoded with it...

in what size room does this make a difference?
i have the speakers but the room is 14 by 13
and i am against the back wall
with speakers mounted 1 foot from back wall on side walls

would it still batter
since the rears would be right above my head so to speak?
post #3205 of 3823
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevinwoodward View Post

in what size room does this make a difference?
i have the speakers but the room is 14 by 13
and i am against the back wall
with speakers mounted 1 foot from back wall on side walls
would it still batter
since the rears would be right above my head so to speak?

In all sizes.
I know someone with 4 satellites across their 2-metre back wall, and it's a big improvement with a better soundstage and a wider sweet-spot (and yes, that goes for 5.1, 4.0 and 2.0 movies matrixed to 7.1)
You can see what I did on the back wall of my last room by clicking on my signature below.



So, have two rears on the back wall about your head in addition to the sides.

For the best speaker options, go here...

SURROUND SPEAKERS - Bipole, Dipole, Quadpole, Omnipole... WHICH ONE?
post #3206 of 3823
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Sounds like the limitation is your speakers and sub.
Thanks JDSmoothie! Anymore theories on the harsh highs? specific frequencies to adjust?
post #3207 of 3823
How do you know what you should be setting the speaker crossovers at. When I set up the calibration mic they set to 120 but seems for optimum thx it says 80

Any advice?

Have a great day!
post #3208 of 3823
Quote:
Originally Posted by sschantz View Post

When I set up the calibration mic they set to 120 but seems for optimum thx it says 80
Any advice?
Have a great day!

Hi sschantx, based on your crossover settings, I'm guessing you may have small satellite surround speakers. If so then most likely correct, check your speaker specs.
post #3209 of 3823
Quote:
Originally Posted by sschantz View Post

How do you know what you should be setting the speaker crossovers at. When I set up the calibration mic they set to 120 but seems for optimum thx it says 80
Any advice?
Have a great day!

What you use all depends on your speakers capabilities. If you have smaller/satelite speakers with smaller than 3 inch cones they most likely don't go below 150hz with a decent level of strength. In this case you want the crossover set to how low your speakers can go with still sounding good and not being pushed too much. Audyssey is pretty good at detecting this in most cases. If you have mid-sized bookshelf or even tower sized speakers they will easily go to 80hz without problem and most likely lower. In this case 80hz is perfect to use. In my experience you generally want to stay about 20hz over what the speakers lowest stated frequency range. E.g. 20khz-80hz +/-5hz @86db this will normally sound better with a crossover of 100hz vs 80hz

In absolute ideal conditions you will have your main speakers set to crossover at 80hz and subwoofer at 120hz with the following speakers. Good tower speakers with tweeters for highs, small cones for high mids and mis sized cones for low mids, a mid-bass module to handle 60-120hz, and a awesome subwoofer for 70hz and below, then set your subwoofer crossover at 120hz. This way you have all ranges covered with no weaknesses and flow of sonic goodness from your tweeters down to your subwoofer without even the teeniest gap.

In real world application 80hz is still good to use since most medium and larger sized speakers can hit down to at least 70hz with decent authority. The subwoofer x-over for most is best set at 120hz but some prefer it at closer to 100 or even 80 to reduce localization and to prevent having Barry Whites voice come from the sub as well. The speakers in a typical home setup will have just tweeters and one sized cone with a single sub or dual sub setup.
post #3210 of 3823
Quote:
Originally Posted by sschantz View Post

How do you know what you should be setting the speaker crossovers at. When I set up the calibration mic they set to 120 but seems for optimum thx it says 80
Any advice?
Have a great day!

Audyssey will determine the -3db roll off point of your speakers in your room and passes that information to the AVR to select the next highest crossover above that point. So regardless of how the mfr rates the speakers, it's how the speakers react in your room that matters. For speakers set below 80hz, it's recommended to raise them up to 80hz, while any setting above 80hz should be left as set, otherwise if you reduced it to 80hz, the 80hz-120hz band would not be EQ'd (using the 120hz setting as an example).
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