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Onkyo TX-NR609, TX-NR509, TX-SR309 Thread - Page 116

post #3451 of 3823
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scotty9er View Post

I've had the NX509 for about a year now and love it. I have a question regarding speaker configuration I am hoping somebody on here can help me with. Up until now, I have had two front speakers, two surround speakers and 1 SW, and have only used the receiver for streaming Pandora. Over the holidays I got myself a newer tv finally, as well as a new center speaker. The TV and the center speaker are in an entertainment center cabinet. So my question is, is there an easy way to set it up so that when I am listening in Music Listening Mode to have the center speaker disabled (because it is behind the cabinet doors), and when I am listening in Movie Listening Mode to have it enabled (because the cabinet at that time is open to watch the tv). From what I've seen so far in playing with the settings, the speaker configuration is a global setting, so setting center speaker to 'none' disables it across the board. The closest I have gotten to my desired result is to have music listening mode be in 2.1 and the movie listening mode be in 5.1. Please advise. Thanks!

No, you setup the Center and leave it alone.

 

Right, you use Listening Modes. There is Stereo and others that don't use the Center. You can select them manually or assign them to be used when a Stereo source is detected.

post #3452 of 3823
I found this by mistake. While listening to Pandora hit the home button on your remote and it will bring up a menu on your tv screen with the following
Input
Audio
Info
Listening Mode

click on listening mode and from there you can set what you want for music, tv, or games.
post #3453 of 3823
Well I finally hooked up my 509 and I love it. I had been using an Apple airport express to stream music to my old set up, now I just connected an ethernet cable between the AE and the 509 and I can get my Spotify and other net based music, while still streaming internet radio stations to the receiver. I also had a 250GB travel HD that I loaded up with mp3's and hooked up to the USB port. As far as power goes it has more than enough for my living room. Now I just have to sell the monster SR805.
post #3454 of 3823
Recently, Netflix has re-encoded many of their HD titles to (supposedly) offer the same quality at a lower bitrate. I wonder if that has made any difference to the Roku2/Onkyo issues?
post #3455 of 3823
Anyone have a "fat" PS3? I was wondering what sounded better, having the PS3 decode HD audio or having it bitstream the lower-end version of the audio (DTS, DD, etc).

I'm asking because my PS3 recently gave up the ghost, and I have the option to either fork out $100 for Sony to replace it with the same model refurbished, or spend $250 for a new "slim" model which can bitstream HD audio straight to the receiver (which "fat" models can't do). The refurbs that Sony sends out are good quality from what I'm finding on the net and I'd rather save the money, but the option to have HD audio bistreamed to the receiver and let it do the decoding is an attractive thought, I just don't know if it makes enough of a difference to be worth the money.
post #3456 of 3823
I've heard that the newer PS3 runs cooler a uses less power.
post #3457 of 3823

I don't know about PS3 and game consoles (I game on PCs).

 

If media contains Bitstream audio, do what you have to to get digital Bitstream to amp for decoding there. HDMI makes it easy and handles AC3 and HD 7.1 audio formats. Also handles multi-channel PCM when that's all you have.

 

Pretty sure decoding at amp is the best or proper way (with a single amp or AVR system).

post #3458 of 3823
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tesla1856 View Post

I don't know about PS3 and game consoles (I game on PCs).

If media contains Bitstream audio, do what you have to to get digital Bitstream to amp for decoding there. HDMI makes it easy and handles AC3 and HD 7.1 audio formats. Also handles multi-channel PCM when that's all you have.

Pretty sure decoding at amp is the best or proper way (with a single amp or AVR system).

I know decoding at the amp is the best way to go, but in this case I can't, the older model PS3's are physically unable to bitstream HD audio. However, it would cost me another $100 to get a new PS3 that can. I'm just wondering if there's anyone who have compared a movie decoded from the PS3 and then from the receiver, who can say how much difference in sound there is.
post #3459 of 3823
It doesn't matter whether the decoding is done by the source device or the AVR .. same quality either way. Also note that it's unlikely you would notice any difference between the higher bitrate lossy DD/DTS tracks recorded on BDs and bitstreamed over optical vs. the HD audio tracks over HDMI (either bitstream or PCM).
post #3460 of 3823
Use PCM from the PS3. It will output the HD audio without any issues to your receiver and the Onkyo can still apply audyssey adjustments to it. I Have an OG 60 gig model and ran Blu-Ray movies this way for 5 years until I free player with my new TV.
The only difference is that you won't see the fancy DTS or DD symbols on the receiver. That and the OG PS3 is only capable of 3D at 720p
post #3461 of 3823
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oneiros42 View Post

Anyone have a "fat" PS3? I was wondering what sounded better, having the PS3 decode HD audio or having it bitstream the lower-end version of the audio (DTS, DD, etc).
I'm asking because my PS3 recently gave up the ghost, and I have the option to either fork out $100 for Sony to replace it with the same model refurbished, or spend $250 for a new "slim" model which can bitstream HD audio straight to the receiver (which "fat" models can't do). The refurbs that Sony sends out are good quality from what I'm finding on the net and I'd rather save the money, but the option to have HD audio bistreamed to the receiver and let it do the decoding is an attractive thought, I just don't know if it makes enough of a difference to be worth the money.

I would get the slim. I have the fat and I would like trade it for a slim because of the "RIHD" support. My son has the slim and he can use his receiver's remote to control it.
post #3462 of 3823
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

It doesn't matter whether the decoding is done by the source device or the AVR .. same quality either way. Also note that it's unlikely you would notice any difference between the higher bitrate lossy DD/DTS tracks recorded on BDs and bitstreamed over optical vs. the HD audio tracks over HDMI (either bitstream or PCM).

Are you saying that *I* wouldn't notice the difference, or that nobody notices the difference? Why have HD audio tracks if there's such little difference?

Quote:
Originally Posted by raistline View Post

Use PCM from the PS3. It will output the HD audio without any issues to your receiver and the Onkyo can still apply audyssey adjustments to it. I Have an OG 60 gig model and ran Blu-Ray movies this way for 5 years until I free player with my new TV.
The only difference is that you won't see the fancy DTS or DD symbols on the receiver. That and the OG PS3 is only capable of 3D at 720p

The Audyssey was probably my main concern. I assumed since the PS3 did the decoding that the receiver just directly passed through the channel info it was being given.
post #3463 of 3823
Incredible newbie asking for advice here. I hope that is OK!

I bought the NR509 becuase it got way cheap on amazon and my old stereo receiver was kaput. I didn't realize that I think it only can power a set of surround speakers -- whereas I would like to have outdoor speakers going, too. So I know this is incredibly dumb but I am right about that, right? Any advice about setting up a pair of outdoor speakers - another cheap receiver? I'd mainly use pandora though???

thank you!
post #3464 of 3823
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrallen81 View Post

Incredible newbie asking for advice here. I hope that is OK!
I bought the NR509 becuase it got way cheap on amazon and my old stereo receiver was kaput. I didn't realize that I think it only can power a set of surround speakers -- whereas I would like to have outdoor speakers going, too. So I know this is incredibly dumb but I am right about that, right? Any advice about setting up a pair of outdoor speakers - another cheap receiver? I'd mainly use pandora though???
thank you!

The 509 supports two "zones," the first of which would power your primary speakers in whatever configuration you have (5.1, etc.). Zone 2 is what you'd use for your outdoor speakers, however it's important to note that Zone 2 is not powered, meaning you'd need a separate amplifier for those. I bought a fairly inexpensive amp (AudioSource Amp 100) for this task and run my outdoor speakers as well as the dining room speakers through that. Tiger Direct is currently selling the Amp 100 for $87. The nice thing about two separate zones is that you can run them independently i.e. listen to two sources simultaneously. The primary limitations of Zone 2 are: 1) Zone 2 only supports analog sources and 2) stereo only. I don't use Pandora via the receiver so not sure if that's considered an analog or digital source. I mainly use Zone 2 off the USB port for iPhone playlists. When doing this, however, the receiver does "take over" the iPhone so for instance, I can't stream Pandora via my iPhone while it's connected to the 509. But I digress wink.gif The owner's manual explains how to use Zone 2 - it's fairly straightforward.

Good luck!
post #3465 of 3823
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrallen81 View Post

Incredible newbie asking for advice here. I hope that is OK!
I bought the NR509 becuase it got way cheap on amazon and my old stereo receiver was kaput. I didn't realize that I think it only can power a set of surround speakers -- whereas I would like to have outdoor speakers going, too. So I know this is incredibly dumb but I am right about that, right? Any advice about setting up a pair of outdoor speakers - another cheap receiver? I'd mainly use pandora though???
thank you!

You have a couple of options for Zone 2. Either use self-powered speakers, buy a cheap amp, or buy a separate receiver and have the receiver either be a Network capable one for Pandora playing or route a Pandora source to the receiver.

A cheap amp may be your best option if the Zone 2 speakers are already cabled.
post #3466 of 3823
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrallen81 View Post

Incredible newbie asking for advice here. I hope that is OK!
I bought the NR509 becuase it got way cheap on amazon and my old stereo receiver was kaput. I didn't realize that I think it only can power a set of surround speakers -- whereas I would like to have outdoor speakers going, too. So I know this is incredibly dumb but I am right about that, right? Any advice about setting up a pair of outdoor speakers - another cheap receiver? I'd mainly use pandora though???
thank you!

Of course it's OK! That's why this forum is here. smile.gif

Since the NR509 only supplies a "line level" signal for Zone 2, yes, you would have to run the Zone 2 line level signal to another amplifier and speakers. See page 52 of the manual.
post #3467 of 3823
Quote:
Originally Posted by am_dew View Post

Of course it's OK! That's why this forum is here. smile.gif
Since the NR509 only supplies a "line level" signal for Zone 2, yes, you would have to run the Zone 2 line level signal to another amplifier and speakers. See page 52 of the manual.
It is NOT OK!. How dare you try to make the guy think that we are helpful. We should all reply with venomous, sarcastic and hurtful answers letting the guy know that he may only post something here if he is an expert on the subject.
Oh wait.. is this the wrong forum for that? tongue.gif
post #3468 of 3823
Ok everyone, because you were so helpful I'm going to lay out the whole complicated thing, and hopefully you can keep helping me! No good deed goes unpunished.... I need help figuring it out!!

I got excited and bought components based on deals that came up, now I have to make it work. I can return any of the components still. I am on a budget and trying to avoid paying anyone for install or anything high priced. Also I'm not an audiofile (yet smile.gif ).

I have: Onkyo NR-509; 2 Sonos PLAY:5 speakers and bridges; two old floor speakers.

Right now I have the Onkyo in use as a stereo receiver in my living room and that's it. My wife wants music in the kitchen, living room if possible, and outdoor speakers. She wants everything on one system.

Options:

1. Buy 2nd amp and outdoor speakers. Use Onkyo for now as a stereo receiver with 2 zones. Return sonos: Play items. Have music in living room and outdoors only.
2. Move Onkyo to TV room and use for surround sound, keep Sonos for in house music, buy connect:amp for the outdoor speakers (I view this as prohibitively expensive)

Is there any way for me to have music on one system with simple controls withough breaking the bank? I can give up the idea of surround sound in the TV area. Seems silly to have an AV receiver used as a stereo receiver, but oh well.

thank you SO MUCH!

- John
post #3469 of 3823
Another option, not that I want to do this, but I could suck it up, return the NR-509, buy a receiver with a powered second zone.
post #3470 of 3823
I also see a little Lepai mini-amp -- could i use that for the outdoor speakers???

Sorry for all the posts. will now wait for responses....
post #3471 of 3823
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrallen81 View Post

Ok everyone, because you were so helpful I'm going to lay out the whole complicated thing, and hopefully you can keep helping me! No good deed goes unpunished.... I need help figuring it out!!
I got excited and bought components based on deals that came up, now I have to make it work. I can return any of the components still. I am on a budget and trying to avoid paying anyone for install or anything high priced. Also I'm not an audiofile (yet smile.gif ).
I have: Onkyo NR-509; 2 Sonos PLAY:5 speakers and bridges; two old floor speakers.
Right now I have the Onkyo in use as a stereo receiver in my living room and that's it. My wife wants music in the kitchen, living room if possible, and outdoor speakers. She wants everything on one system.
Options:
1. Buy 2nd amp and outdoor speakers. Use Onkyo for now as a stereo receiver with 2 zones. Return sonos: Play items. Have music in living room and outdoors only.
2. Move Onkyo to TV room and use for surround sound, keep Sonos for in house music, buy connect:amp for the outdoor speakers (I view this as prohibitively expensive)
Is there any way for me to have music on one system with simple controls withough breaking the bank? I can give up the idea of surround sound in the TV area. Seems silly to have an AV receiver used as a stereo receiver, but oh well.
thank you SO MUCH!
- John

Okay, from this explanation I think option 2 is a far better option. Use the Receiver for your home theater (TV), and attach your two floor standing speakers to that system and build on it later for a 5.1 as money comes available.
Use the Sonos 2 for you living room and kitchen.
Then connect your Zone 2 pre outs to a cheap amp that will connect to your outdoor speakers through regular speaker cable.

There is no easy way to use the Sonos Speakers with your receiver unless you buy their Sonos Connect Box which you would instead connect to the zone 2 pre-outs and broadcast to the Sonos speakers through that device.

Is the ability to have the speakers be Wireless a necessity or a nicety?

I am not sure how much you paid for your Sonos Equipment but here is my full suggestion on what you can do to play music in multiple rooms. In this situation your receiver will be used for you home theater. Your zone two will play the same music from to multiple rooms on self powered speakers. I recommend these http://www.amazon.com/M-Audio-Studiophile-Powered-Monitor-Speakers/dp/B0051WAM1O/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1357337337&sr=1-1&keywords=m-audio+av30

Return your Sonos speaker systems.
Keep your 509 and set it up in your TV Room.
Now you will use your Zone 2 and a few sets of these (they are cheap and ugly but can work well if hiddenhttp://www.amazon.com/Channel-Wireless-Transmitter-Receiver-Extension/dp/B005N6ICXS/ref=sr_1_2?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1357337550&sr=1-2&keywords=wireless+audio+transmitter
You can buy a set for each room you want audio in. Just set the extra transmitters aside. Now set the receiver and each transmitter to the same audio channel.
Connect the Zone 2 pre-out to the Transmitter, plug it in and you are ready on that part. Now connect and place the wireless receivers that are all set to the same channel in each room you want audio.
Connect the wireless receivers to the powered speak, turn the powered speaker on, and you are good as gold.
Now any audio you play through Zone 2 will play through your speakers.

This solution will cost you 100 per pair of speakers,not including outdoor speakers and 50 per room for wireless solution. Rocketfish has some good self powered outdoor speakers that could connect to this same system if you keep the wireless receiver indoors and run the RCA cable outside to the speakers. Do note, I have not tried this solution in practice, it is mostly theory.
post #3472 of 3823
Quote:
Originally Posted by raistline View Post

Okay, from this explanation I think option 2 is a far better option. Use the Receiver for your home theater (TV), and attach your two floor standing speakers to that system and build on it later for a 5.1 as money comes available.
Use the Sonos 2 for you living room and kitchen
Then connect your Zone 2 pre outs to a cheap amp that will connect to your outdoor speakers through regular speaker cable.

This seems reasonable but I think his wife said it has to be one system for everything?

Quote:
Just set the extra transmitters aside. Now set the receiver and each transmitter to the same audio channel.
Connect the Zone 2 pre-out to the Transmitter, plug it in and you are ready on that part. Now connect and place the wireless receivers that are all set to the same channel in each room you want audio.
Connect the wireless receivers to the powered speak, turn the powered speaker on, and you are good as gold.
Now any audio you play through Zone 2 will play through your speakers.
This solution will cost you 100 per pair of speakers,not including outdoor speakers and 50 per room for wireless solution. Rocketfish has some good self powered outdoor speakers that could connect to this same system if you keep the wireless receiver indoors and run the RCA cable outside to the speakers. Do note, I have not tried this solution in practice, it is mostly theory.

I think you meant to say "Now set the transmitter and each receiver to the same audio channel."

raistline's wireless solution does look workable but also assumes you're going to abandon the existing outdoor speakers and replace them with the powered outdoor speakers from Rocketfish he's recommending (or something like them). But you can probably sell the existing outdoor speakers to recoup part of the cost and besides, it will save you the expenses of having to buy the mini-amp (which seems a little underpowered anyway), a speaker selector switch, and having to run additional speaker wire from the living room and kitchen. Assuming the wireless setup doesn't interfere with any 2.4 Ghz phones you might be using around the house, and assuming the transmitter is capable of broadcasting to all of the receivers simultaneously, this could work nicely.
post #3473 of 3823
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonny-zed View Post

Actually glad this has subject been brought up. FWIW, I have a TX-NR509.
For TV sources (via my FIOS STB), the receiever seems to naturally adjust based on the source format (PL II, Dolby Digital, etc.) and that's what's displayed
For blu-ray, however, it consistently displays as Multichannel. I'm getting full 5.1, just not sure if it's the highest possible quality (Dolby Digital, DTS, etc.) given my components and speaker setup. Everything is connected via HDMI. I think the settings on my blu-ray player are correct, although I'll re-check those later when I'm at home.
Just wanted to see if "multich" (which is what I believe the display indicates) is not inconsistent with a DD or DTS source but simply not displaying it as such. The 509 manual is a little confusing in this regard.

I had the same problem with my 509 and a new Sony S590 Blue Ray player. The issue was not the 509, I had to go back and reset all of the options in the S590 set up menu. After that the amp went from Multi Channel to DTS-MasterHD and sounds excellent.
post #3474 of 3823
On the Sony BD players, you need to change 'BD Audio Mix' to OFF in order for audio to pass through unmolested. With it ON, it can mix PIP audio with the main audio, but even with no PIP, it still downgrades the audio to multichannel.
post #3475 of 3823
Quote:
Originally Posted by andyross63 View Post

On the Sony BD players, you need to change 'BD Audio Mix' to OFF in order for audio to pass through unmolested. With it ON, it can mix PIP audio with the main audio, but even with no PIP, it still downgrades the audio to multichannel.

Indeed!!! biggrin.gif
post #3476 of 3823
Quote:
Originally Posted by andyross63 View Post

On the Sony BD players, you need to change 'BD Audio Mix' to OFF in order for audio to pass through unmolested. With it ON, it can mix PIP audio with the main audio, but even with no PIP, it still downgrades the audio to multichannel.

The audio isn't "downgraded" to multi channel ... rather as previously mentioned the Sony simply "unzips" the HD audio packet to multi channel PCM instead of the AVR "unzipping" it.
post #3477 of 3823
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oneiros42 View Post

1. Are you saying that *I* wouldn't notice the difference, or that nobody notices the difference? Why have HD audio tracks if there's such little difference?

2. The Audyssey was probably my main concern. I assumed since the PS3 did the decoding that the receiver just directly passed through the channel info it was being given.

1. I'm saying that based on testing done in audio studios where no appreciable difference was heard, that it's likely the vast majority of folks would not be able to hear a difference either.

2. Audyssey works on either "bitstreamed" DD/DTS or "PCM" tracks, rather it's not enabled in DIRECT/PURE DIRECT modes or with multi channel analog inputs (709 and higher models).
post #3478 of 3823
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

The audio isn't "downgraded" to multi channel ... rather as previously mentioned the Sony simply "unzips" the HD audio packet to multi channel PCM instead of the AVR "unzipping" it.

OK, but does the AVR actually unzip it? What is the setting? The expectation is DTS HD-MA from a Blu-ray disc, not multichannel PCM. The BD audio mix setting on my Sony gets me there. Keep in mind that this issue is only present when the BD player is the source. My 509 always correctly decodes anything coming from the STB.
post #3479 of 3823
If that is "your" expectation, then as already noted, you must set the BDP to "bitstream" with secondary audio set to OFF. This will pass the "zipped" DD/DTS file to the AVR which will "unzip" it to the same PCM audio file the BDP would have done. The STB can only pass either DD 5.1 or PCM 2.0 (ie. it cannot be set to pass PCM 5.1).
post #3480 of 3823
Point being, the BDP parses the outgoing audio. So I think we're in agreement! biggrin.gif But since you used quotation marks to describe it as being "my" preference, that reminds me of a question I had asked earlier in the thread, which is - how does the audio quality compare between multichannel PCM and Dolby digital formats such as DTS-HD. I'm of the impression that the Dolby formats are the state of the art, so to speak.

The settings you refer to vary to an extent between BDPs. My Samsung BD-C6500 is set the way you describe ("Bitstream Audiophile" is the setting I believe). Sony has the single BD audio mix setting.
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