Onkyo TX-NR609, TX-NR509, TX-SR309 Thread - Page 117

Correct, different brands may call the settings something different, but in the end if you want to see "DD TrueHD or DTS HD-MA" on your AVR's front panel display, you need to set the BDP to "bitstream" with the "secondary audio" (or mix) set to OFF. If you let the BDP decode the audio to PCM, the AVR doesn't know what the original format was (DD or DTS) so can only display "Mult CH IN" as it just sees it as multi channel audio. Either way, and to answer your question, the audio quality is exactly the same. Most prefer letting the AVR do the decoding as they get to see whether it's a DD or DTS track that the source is sending. It's also important to note that the "bitstream" audio is likely to be maybe 3db louder and most folks will often confuse somewhat louder audio as "better quality" audio which is why you hear some folks say "bitstream" audio is better than "PCM" audio, when if fact, in the end, they are both the same exact tracks.

Thank you - great explanation!

If what the receiver is getting is the same whether it's PCM or bitstream, what's the point in having the two options? Are there blu-ray players that don't decode audio? Does the receiver "handle" audio differently whether it's an incoming PCM stream or a recognized format like DTS HD?

And for the prize-winning newbie question... what ultimately determines the "sound quality" of different receivers?

For the center, I recommend the DV-62CLRS. I love my BIC America speakers. There not necessarily "in vogue" for people who feel like they need to spend a lot of money on speakers but check the reviews by owners, the percentage of 4 and 5 star reviews are impressive.

Home Theater Magazine christened the DV-62CLRS center channel as one of the best they'd ever heard and it only costs $110.

I noticed the difference when I timbre-matched all my speakers (I went BIC all the way around and I love it). Definitely smoother transience, response, etc...stringed instruments sound absolutely sublime.

Two words: Hans Zimmer.

But, is it leaving DTS-MA/DolbyTrueHD unmolested when it splits it up, or is it only decoding the core DTS/Dolby?

^^ Some players such as Panasonics use the lossy tracks when secondary audio is set to On. Others, such as most Sony, will still decode the lossless tracks when mixing in secondary audio. But, as jdsmoothie has been explaining, the lossless track must be unzipped back into PCM regardless of where the decoding is done. That is not a downgrade of the audio. Encoded tracks must be decoded back onto PCM before they can be processed by receivers to produce sound. I don't understand what you are asking when you say "is it leaving DTS-MA/TrueHD unmolested when it splits it up"? Those codecs are just types of zip files. Decoding = unzipping. Decoding a lossless track produces the exact same PCM that was fed into the encoder when the disc was authored.

Historically, the idea was such that blu-ray players would always decode all types of audio and send PCM. But in the Blu/HD-DVD race and the rush to market, players were released without this functionality done yet and so early HDMI receivers picked up the slack. Nowadays, people have found clever uses for this, such as setting different EQ for PCM vs. Bitstream - ie, if its bitstream they EQ for their personal movie tastes, and if its PCM they know its probably music (there are some PCM Blu-ray movies out there) and EQ accordingly, and so its all automatic for them.

Personally I use PCM for everything so that I can set up once source processing and forget about the rest, otherwise if I made a change I'd have to go and make sure all the different source types were changed too in the setup menu.
The precision of the Digital-to-Analog Converter (DAC), the linearity of the signal across all frequencies individually and when different frequencies are played together, and Total Harmonic Distortion (THD) at a given volume level.

The signal linearity and THD tend to get worse at higher volumes, so how good of a receiver/amp you need often depends on how loud you need it to be (which also depends on how much space you need to fill with sound).

What I'm asking is if the player itself actually supports full decoding of lossless DTS-MA/TrueHD before repacking it as PCM, or does it ignore the extra stuff and only decode the basic lossy DTS/Dolby core? Given the hyper-paranoia of the media companies, and the way my receiver does an HDMI handshake on anything beyond basic DTS/Dolby (and losing a few seconds of audio), I'd be amazed they'd allow unencrypted PCM of a pure, lossless, audio stream.

Yes, some players fully decode the DTS-MA/TrueHD and some only decode the core - for a specific player, ask in that player's thread.

DTS-MA/TrueHD are compression/encoding formats and have nothing to do with encryption. All video and audio data sent over HDMI, be it DTS-MA, DTS lossy, Dolby, PCM, etc., are sent encrypted if the disc says they should be.

Well my 609 went into auto protect mid movie about 2 hours ago. CHECK SP WIRE.. Disconnected everything, unplugged, let it sit an hour. Still busted. I guess I get to do some packing and sending. I don't suppose there is any other option? ARGH. Second Onkyo in a row I've had issues with.

If you or anyone you know is looking for a very inexpensive 5.1 AVR with a bunch of nice features, Woot.com is listing the Onkyo HT-RC430 for $129.99. Woot is a one-deal-one-day site, so this has to be bought today or it's gone. A quick lookup on Froogle showed it selling for $168 from Wal-Mart so the Woot deal seems like a good one.

http://www.woot.com/offers/onkyo-5-1ch-3d-ready-a-v-receiver#read-more

Happy listening!

Depending on how your speakers were connected, but did you check closely to see if there is some piece of broken wire that may be shorting a speaker connection? Maybe even tip over and shake the receiver just in case something fell in and caused a short. Probably won't do anything, but it won't hurt to try (other than your back.)

I didn't go that far but I did try to hit it with some compressed air on the connections to see if a strand shot out and that did nada. I do use bare wire, and every once in a while I get back there and I might have nudged one. But it's been in place in the very top of the cabinet for months as is so nothing really should have changed.

I'm desperate though so I am going to give it a tip. You can't hurt a paperweight. LOL.

EDIT: Nothing. Nary a strand of copper. Nor any rattles. And damn was I hoping.

There has to be some Murphy's law element at work here. I literally just finished the media closet off (minus painting trim nails only!) with LED lights and new shelving. Been working on it for almost a year. I actually said to my buddy while watching Notre Dame get pasted "yeah now that I'm done I have no idea what I am going to do with myself." (it was my weekend project every weekend). Next night it goes. Oi.
Edited by GoldenWheels - 1/9/13 at 5:18pm

Hi - I bought my TX-NR509 a while ago and have never updated the firmware. The version it is currently running is 1061090000000103.

The receiver seems to be working fine in every way, so I'd like to know the opinions of others on this thread: Should I do a firmware update? What's to be gained and is it possible that things will get screwed up by updating it? Also, I should (finally) have it running on my home network by next week so is there any advantage to running the update via the Internet as opposed to using the USB? TIA for your responses.

This thread is way too long to read through, but I'm fairly certain there are posts from a few who have bricked their AVR doing so. Also, it is my recollection that Onkyo disclaims warranty service if this happens.

I did one from a USB drive when I first got the 509, and have left it alone since then, but I'm not using it for streaming, just decoding DirecTV and DVD. I'll leave it up to others to offer opinions on whether you should, but my advice is to be sure that if you choose to do so, you have it plugged into a solid UPS. The last thing you want is a power outage while updating. It is also my opinion that if you have the correct files on a USB drive, this eliminates another possible source of an outage, but others' opinions may differ. Also, it is EXTREMELY important to follow the steps in the manual exactly or it can botch.

Thanks - I read through the release notes for the latest firmware (1801-1100-0000-0103) and it does seem like the've made some nice improvements to the receiver since 2011. I just received the home networking gear I needed to make my 509 Internet-accessible so will likely opt for the network update as opposed to USB. Keeping my fingers crossed! Also looking forward to doing some Internet Radio streaming and trying out my iPhone as the 509 remote! Have a great weekend!

FWIW, I have updated the firmware on my TX-NR609 with a hard-wired interenet connection several times without any issues. As they say, YMMV.

I have also updated every time over the internet with no issues.

Prior to the firmware released in March 2012, there was a timing error in the HDMI 24p output (someone on here actually hooked it up to an HDMI analyzer and verified the timing was incorrect). The net result for me and some others was, when watching 24p, a frame would get dropped every few minutes (the video would just skip one frame). This was fixed in the March 2012 firmware, so you might want to update if you use 24p.

This was a 609 - I believe the error applied to the 509 as well but I'm not sure.

EDIT: There was no update for the 509 in March 2012, so maybe this was just a 6 and higher issue.

Bobear (and Johnny Z) --

It is my understanding that the dropped frame issue doesn't/didn't apply to the 509 because it doesn't do any video processing, just pass-through.

Hi all, brand new AVS member here, so I apologize in advance if this is better served by creating a new thread.

I'm having some issues with my Onkyo TX-NR509 that I bought second hand, and it seems to be the infamous HDMI handshake issues, but I haven't seen anyone describe my exact situation yet, so here goes.

I have a Vizio VP322 32" plasma TV, with the NR509 as the audio processor, handling my Cox HD DVR (Scientific Atlanta 8240HDC) and Samsung Blu Ray player (Samsung BD-E5900). All connections are HDMI (1.3 cable from the AVR to the TV, 1.4 cables for the components; the TV only does HDMI 1.3 anyway) except for a TOSLINK cable from the TV back to the receiver to handle audio return.

I have no problems watching TV from the DVR. However, I'm having problems watching certain content from the Blu Ray player. When I first connected the Blu Ray player through the AVR, I could not get any video to the TV - the TV would go black and after several seconds and the TV itself would show "No Support". However, the player worked perfectly fine directly connected to the TV. I found out after playing with the settings, if I set the Blu Ray player's resolution down to 1080i or below (The default setting, Auto, defaults to 1080p in my setup), then I could see the menus, access the built-in apps, and play standard definition content without issue through the AVR. However, if I try and stream HD Netflix content (tested with every episode from Series 6 of Doctor Who), the video plays for anywhere between 1 and 10 seconds, then blinks between static, green, and black, and the display on the AVR blinks between showing the audio decoding method and nothing. I do not yet have any Blu Ray discs, as the player is brand new, so I have not had a chance to test that yet - DVDs do play fine.

I've tried swapping HDMI cables, resetting the AVR to factory defaults using the button combination, and the AVR and the Blu Ray player are on the latest firmware. I have not played with any settings since resetting the unit to factory. To me, this seems to point to the problem being within the AVR. Is there anything else I can try? If handshake issues are indeed the problem, what (if anything) can be done to fix the situation? I do not have a warranty thanks to the unit being second-hand.

And, thanks!

Does anyone have a answer for this question?

Sent from my cm_tenderloin using Tapatalk 2

Well, it's called configuration ... not playing.

 

What is the native resolution of the 32" display?

 

Yes, get a real Blu-Ray so you can test true 1080p.

 

Be sure 1080p paths are nice (short, low gauge) high-speed 1080p capable cables. MonoPrice has them cheap.

 

Try turning off HDMI-CEC on devices for now.

For the 609 for example ...

 

Since you can't apply a full firmware update that has already been applied ...

 

Does anyone know how to reset the machine so that it will accept a completly new firmware re-load ... in this case the 07-05-2012 version.

I had my cable hdmi hooked into my tv and an optical returning to my receiver for the sound. Everything worked great! I just read if I run the hdmi through the 609 receiver it will provide a better picture. I did so, hooked it into the cable/sat hdmi in. Now all I get is center channel sound. Before On my previous hook up I was getting sound out of all my speakers and would get the different sounds as I cycled through the listening modes. Now it's all just center channel sound?

In cable box, set to HDMI sound output

In TV, set speakers to "Home Theater Speakers"

Disconnect Optical and un-program on Onkyo

In Onkyo, check your speaker setup.

In Onkyo, check your Listening Mode setup for Cable box's HDMI input (each Input is separate).

A movie channel like HBO or ShowTime should output in 5.1 surround.

Looks like it was the source, Broncos/Ravens game on Fox. As soon as I changed over to the Niners/Packers game it was full surround again.

Cool.

 

But for that to happen ... please check your Listening Modes for the CableBox's HDMI Input. Sounds like you are translating (one of the un-common) source input types  incorrectly.

ok, i'm not sure exactly how to do that but i'll figure it out. thanks!

@Tesla1856: Native resolution of the VP322 is 1024 x 720. So 720p is technically native, but the picture /seems/ better to my eyes at 1080i. I know it's either placebo effect or I'm crazy, but to me it does. The thing that's driving me crazy though is the TV apparently broadcasts 1080p support in it's EDID, as the Blu Ray player will configure itself to 1080p when directly connected to the TV, and the HD content I have available to me right now plays perfectly fine when directly connected.

I am not going to lie, the HDMI cables that are attached to the DVR and Blu Ray player are cheaper cables from Wal-Mart. The ones I'm using are the ONN 6' cables. They're decent enough quality, and I know that it can handle the higher res just fine, as I had the Blu Ray player plugged directly into the TV with one, and had zero problems. It's only when I connect the Blu Ray player through the AVR that I experience problems. But I've also tried some more expensive cables that I have - GE ones, I believe - to no effect.

HDMI-CEC is turned off on the AVR and on the Blu Ray Player; however, this did not have any positive effect.

Now, I did just try something: I forced the resolution of the Blu Ray player down to 720p, and the formerly problematic Netflix content is now playing trouble free. While this is temporarily okay, I don't consider this a long-term solution, as I do intend to upgrade the TV within the next year or so and do expect to be using the same AVR. But it does seem odd that the AVR seems quite happy at 720p or lower, but gets uppity at 1080i or 1080p.

So, in short:

All resolutions, directly connected to TV: No problems.
1080p, through AVR: No picture; TV responds "No Support"
1080i, through AVR: Picture looks great until I begin playing HD content; this triggers what seems to be HDMI handshaking issues (flashing between picture, static, and green; audio cuts out; and AVR display flashes)
720p, through AVR: No problems.
480i, through AVR: No problems.

Now the above I typed last night. This morning, i tried plugging the Blu Ray player directly into the TV again, and with every cable I have, it began to experience issues on 1080i and 1080p. The cable box DVR, however, was happily spitting 1080i out to the AVR, and the TV was happily displaying that signal. So I think I just had a defective Blu Ray player. Returned it this morning, until I can figure out which one to get next.

Thank you everyone for your help.