Canon HF G10, XA10, XF100, XF105 Owners Thread - Page 38

Steve, what did you tell them at Best Buy? I hate returning stuff because they look at you like you are lying.


I guess I will be returning mine and getting either the TM900 or the Sony HDR-CX700V. If I DO get either one of those then I will have a Canon OEM 819 battery for sale (used once for 20 minutes) and an unopened Canon external charger for sale.

All opinions are appreciated.

Is there a decent lens hood for the TM900?

I just went out back and did a quick sequence similar to BigHAZE's, and I only detect a slight wobble with the POWERED IS setting. Since it says to press and hold when approaching near full zoom, perhaps it isn't intended for wide angle use. In any case, I'm not ready to return mine just yet.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2oLUS4VUd44

Actually I did, and saw a little of what you are talking about. If you want me to try it with the XA10 I will and upload the raw video. Just let me know what you want me to set on the camera and what you want me to do while filming. Don't know if my comment was taken the wrong way. The rainbows on the DLP were definitely there, but in general the human brain was good at not seeing it. So regardless of the rainbows, a lot of people enjoyed their DLP TVs none the wiser.

How about the Canon HF21 or HF41?

Also about your comment on seeing the problem, I noticed it right away, like many things it depends on weather you can live with it. But if I spend over $1000 on a Camcorder it better be "near" perfect!

It might just be a phenomena with the powered ois. Maybe that mode is only meant for zooms?

And as an owner of 2 older dlp PJs, the rainbow issue WAS real. At least for me and some people. Just because someone doesn't see something doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I for one can instantly and very easily see when pictures hung on walls are crooked. Even the slightest bit. Many people I know couldn't tell whatsoever until they used a tape measure and then went, "Woah, you're right..."

Well since I am returning my HF G10 in about 20 min, I am wide open to suggestions. LOL

I would like a decent camera that does well in low light, I just saw that Canon HF 21 is on sale at B&H and that there HF41 is similar to the HF 10 but not with the manual functions.

From catching up on this thread I have to say that with my XA10 I have not noticed any 'jello effect' from what all I have been doing with it. I've recorded lots of footage hand held, even just going outside to do audio tests with mics (thus not paying much attention to what I'm actually recording) and just haven't noticed anything of the sort, indoors or out. I have also been doing all my recording with using standard IS, as from using the the older canon camcorder standard IS tends to fit more picture into the frame. I haven't been able to notice so much on this new camcorder, perhaps because the maximum zoom distance is shorter, but on the old camcorder at max zoom with dynamic IS on it zooms into your picture and cuts off part of it to use as an IS buffer area. If you didn't want to lose any of your picture you go to standard IS and you get your full frame back, you just lose this buffer for extra IS functionality. At full wide angle though you still got your full frame whether you were in standard or dynamic though.

With that said, I also don't notice any jello effects of theHAZE's video. Have to say that is very nice scenery though.

I was able to identify it in some other people's videos that were posted, as it becomes painfully obvious. And I'd have to say that is very odd. Makes it seem like there is a lens element moving around in directions that it wasn't supposed to (in and out, as opposed to up/down/left/right) when the optical IS is enabled. In such cases I may look into getting a replacement.

In terms of a clicking sound when turning it on, mine clicks. It makes a very obvious noise when you power it up, but so did my old camcorder, and many things. I take it as perfectly normal.

Also in terms of the LCD screen not aligning with a plastic guide pin when you close it, mine doesn't perfectly align either. It'll sit on the pin if I don't give it a slight nudge up. However, I don't consider this a problem or even a slight annoyance. Actually it means absolutely nothing to me and I will probably never mention this again in any way shape or form since it really doesn't matter, unless you like to slam your lcd lid closed. In which case it could potentially get damaged. But even if it did align I wouldn't want to do that. Actually I seem to be using the LCD hood on it most of the time anyway, and with that on you can't close it. LCD hood is very handy though. Especially when you wear glasses and the viewfinder is less then effective out in the sun.

Also regarding powered IS, when you look it up on canon's web page they say that is designed mostly for use at telephoto. For me it doesn't really do anything worth noting at wide angle, but at telephoto it will try and freeze the frame you are pointing at. as such you need to hold it as still as possible, thus the shake indicator. If you're in powered and move it around a bunch it has a strange sticky effect as it tries to stick on frames that you move past, and it just acts odd. Best results is aiming at a static subject that isn't moving around much using telephoto.

I'm still hoping we can nail this down. The PQ looks amazing. But I DO do a ton of very movement based shots. Not just panning but walking and traveling shots so I want it to look best.
Good forum and good info being shared here.

Dynamic IS on or off? Any manual settings? Zoomed in/out?

So does the image quality in outdoor sports photography look best with the HF G10 or the TM900? I really don't plan on doing much low light shooting. I might shoot some indoor gymastics but am starting to get really confused as to whether I should SAVE $500 and get the TM900 or SPEND $500 more and get the XA10.

Has anyone tried the HF21 or HF41 yet? Just curious as these are a couple I am looking at.

For me the reason for the return, the video quality indoors wasn't all that great but that could have been the horrible lighting during the wedding. Also I did notice the wobble especially when i was walking slowly. My LCD screen on my HF G10 did and has not shut properly since I got it.

Never thought about the TM900 but I do some stuff in Low light, maybe my Camera D7000 can do the work of that since lenses tend to help in those situations. hmmmm How much is the TM900 about a grand?

yep...and it can do 3D!!!

BigHaze, thanks much for posting your videos about the jello stuff.. I looked at a few more G10 vids that people posted and I see the jello vision all the time now.. sucks to say I'm just going to return my G10. I too don't need much low light shooting and after watching this video on my Sony 46" and Samsung 55" LCD it blew me away. It has no jello, its been processed and youtube'd and I can only image that raw would look even better. But best of all its $500 less to which serves my purposes. Good luck on your decisions!

I saw one of my clips that I shot today that may or may not be what you guys are talking about. In that clip I've got a tall steeple that appears to bend a bit as it gets near the edge of the frame during panning (I was trying to simulate the conditions a few of you are talking about). If it's this, this has nothing whatever to do with 'jello' and is only a very normal manifestation of a wide angle lens distortion near the edge. If you are not familiar with this effect, I can see how it could be interpreted as 'jello' since you can get a rubbery feeling with fast panning. If this is what you're seeing, it's much ado about nothing IMO and I've seen it in every wide angle lens I've ever used.

On another note, we were at a dinner theater as part of this tour we're on. The restaurant was very dimly lit and the lights for the singers (opera...not my style ) were constantly changing color. This combo would have been death for any other small cam I've ever used, but the Canon came through with what looks like flying colors (sorry for the bad pun). Hopefully it looks this good on the big screen, but no noise that I can see and accurate colors.

Hi BigHaze:
I looked at your video not once but four time trying to decipher exactly what the problem may be to see if it is for real or what interpretation can be given to it because I do want to help, I am no expert but this are my thoughts:
First and foremost this is not the rolling shutter effect or jello effect of cameras with cmos sensors.
In your introduction you say it was shot using manual exposure, f1.8, 60i and I assume that you must have used a very high shutter speed, for the lens to be wide open with such a good amount of illumination and obtain fairly good proper exposure. Which is the basis for my theory..No doubt you are panning very fast or walking fairly brisk from one end of the terrace while panning at the same time. The panning is more than I would characterize for any kind of video, stabilizer or no stabilizer mounted on a tripod or not.
I think this video shows what I have heard other times referred as the staccato effect, a combination of high shutter speed and rapid motion or fast panning This in no way is related to faulty equipment as this form of shooting or combination/exposure would tax even the sensor chips of cameras costing large sum of money.
This is not again any jello effect due to cmos sensor or rolling shutter,
I had the HF-S10, that suffered from that a lot, I am posting a video that demonstrates what a real jello effect from poorly designed and inherited on all cmos sensor cameras, then came the HF-S21 which they improved greatly and perfection it And now this sensor that although still cmos has a lot bigger pixels that make the effect almost non-existant.
Do You think that Canon would put the same sensor that your G10 has on the $5000.00(+) XF105 or the XF-100 if it had the problem that you are describing???
Something to think about..Any way That is my contribution to this dilemma, but I certainly don't see it in the XA10. This is rolling shutter Jello effect /www.vimeo.com/3964272, this was taken with the HF-S10 and pay particular attention at the beginning on the tile roof and the fruits hagging from the branches, That is what Jello cmos rolling shutter effect is about
I hope this helps, Any kind of response is appreciated, as my purpose is to help.

Thank You,

Luidoly

I agree so far Luidoly. If it's not the inevitable lens distortion I just spoke about and it requires such concentration to see it, then I for one am not going to worry about it, this cam is just too good otherwise. It's very reminiscent of the Bondi-blue issue with the Panny. Some saw it and were forever bothered by it and others had no idea what some were talking about.

So far nobody has answered my question about why nobody saw this in any clip anywhere beyond 2 days ago and now some seem to see it everywhere....including my clip that people saw before yet never noticed it. I've shown many of my clips to my video buddy and wife and they too never commented on anything odd. More than a bit perplexing.

Again I haven't seen it, but if it shows up in many of my clips and is also disturbing, then I'll have to figure out what to do. But all I can say is I've taken many many clips and have yet to see anything out of the ordinary...with the exception of superb low light which IS out of the ordinary.

Here's another thing that totally baffles me. If this issue were so severe to the point that it gives you 'motion sickness', why would it have taken Steve to point this out?? Why would you not have noticed it before? In fact I seem to recall you were very happy with the unit before Steve pointed it out. I remain very confused.

IMO, these units do not all have these issues. How is it that nobody (as in not one single person on the Internet, not one single pro review and not one single person on AVS prior to 2 days ago, ever saw it? Scientifically there is no way that any logic would lead you to the assumption that all units have this issue. I would love for someone to explain to me how this issue eluded so many people with all the clips that have been out there.

I'm with you Erich. This is surely not the first time I've seen this kind of 'mass hysteria' (and i truly don't mean that in a derogatory way) even though the mass here is really only about three people. As you and I have both said, if I have to search for this problem, then for ME it is a total non-issue. Your analogy to the DLP rainbows was spot on. Some see it and are forever bothered by it and others never see it and just love the picture. The three people that have seen my cam's output don't see it. I suppose if you see it and are really bothered by it, you need to make another choice and give up the low light capabilities.

If you want good low light get the Sony. If you want good outdoor get the Canon.