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Canon HF G10, XA10, XF100, XF105 Owners Thread - Page 74

post #2191 of 4132
5/12/11 at 12:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigboygelo View Post


will this work?
http://www.pricegrabber.com/p__EBENK...oduct/sv=title

I actually bought that last year from amazon as a vendor there falsely had it listed as compatible with my cx550. When I got it I found out it would only work with a lanc to Sony adaptor. Not sure as I never opened it but it seems like it would.
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post #2192 of 4132
5/12/11 at 12:44pm
Garman, I am leaning towards keeping it now. I am curious to see how Steve's new one is. If he gets one that is night and day better I will consider it. I do think a lot is related to the lens itself and I might actually get one that's worse.
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post #2193 of 4132
5/12/11 at 12:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Mack View Post

I actually bought that last year from amazon as a vendor there falsely had it listed as compatible with my cx550. When I got it I found out it would only work with a lanc to Sony adaptor. Not sure as I never opened it but it seems like it would.

or this one;

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...e_Control.html

problem is, how would this mount on the hand grips that i looked at, was suggested?

darn, guess ill have to make do with my hand right now..

another curious question i have is if its possible to shoot with my G10 and A700 at the same time? i know ridiculous right? well, this is because wifey usually does not want to share the fun of taking pictures and or videos during our events and if she does, the results are not usually want i want....

somehow there should be a gadget of sorts somewhere out there...
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post #2194 of 4132
5/12/11 at 12:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Cebu View Post

Well it should be a lot better. There is a lot more to it than just the sensor. I just can't justify the cost not with the company I'm working for closing down early next year. Half my work now is getting it ready to close.
If I hit the lottery I'd go for the Canon XF305.

Sorry about your job, if my union doesn't vote on a new insurance program soon there will be 30 to 40 layoffs. Ill be safe for now. As with the cost of the xf100 my wife wants me to thin out some of my hobby stuff. I have a large collection of guitars some could go, a full wood shop, and a few RC helicopters i could let go, at least thats what she wanted to hear. LOL
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post #2195 of 4132
5/12/11 at 1:00pm
Yeah these kind of controllers mount to tripod arms near your hand. I have this one,

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...ails&is=REG&Q=

Attached to my Halorig to control my big cam. Under right thumb in picture.
LL
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post #2196 of 4132
5/12/11 at 1:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by gso125 View Post


Sorry about your job, if my union doesn't vote on a new insurance program soon there will be 30 to 40 layoffs. Ill be safe for now. As with the cost of the xf100 my wife wants me to thin out some of my hobby stuff. I have a large collection of guitars some could go, a full wood shop, and a few RC helicopters i could let go, at least thats what she wanted to hear. LOL

Sympathize with you, my local just finally got a new contract after 18 months working without. I too have WAY too many cameras and guitars and FX that I need to drastically thin out.
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post #2197 of 4132
5/12/11 at 1:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Mack View Post

Yeah these kind of controllers mount to tripod arms near your hand. I have this one,

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...ails&is=REG&Q=

Attached to my Halorig to control my big cam. Under right thumb in picture.

Dave, every time I see that I think "Beam me up Scottie".
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post #2198 of 4132
5/12/11 at 1:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post


Dave, every time I see that I think "Beam me up Scottie".

Yeah, I look like I'm being assimilated by the Borg!
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post #2199 of 4132
5/12/11 at 1:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Mack View Post

Yeah these kind of controllers mount to tripod arms near your hand. I have this one,

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...ails&is=REG&Q=

Attached to my Halorig to control my big cam. Under right thumb in picture.

cmon! you want me to show up in my son's dad night with that?

meant with the HALORIG...
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post #2200 of 4132
5/12/11 at 2:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigboygelo View Post


cmon! you want me to show up in my son's dad night with that?

meant with the HALORIG...

Go for it!!
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post #2201 of 4132
5/12/11 at 2:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigboygelo View Post

will this work?
http://www.pricegrabber.com/p__EBENK...oduct/sv=title

Hi bigboygelo;

You could try EBay and see if you can get one like this, is an old Sony accessory for the Vdeo8 era, is a pistol grip, has Lanc control and doubles as a tripod. Works beautifully with all Canons that have Lanc control. I think I posted this before.

Still working on the Bombshell for later. I am pretty busy now.

Luidoly
LL
LL
LL
LL
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post #2202 of 4132
5/12/11 at 2:36pm
Ok just shot 3 clips on way home. With a little practice I easily achieved the funhouse mirror, visual distortion as bad as any clips here in dynamic IS mode using very slight left to right hand pivots. Same exact movements in both standard IS and with IS off produced none. So it's definitely the dynamic coupled with specific motion. Will upload clips later. Gotta pick up kid.

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post #2203 of 4132
5/12/11 at 2:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Mack View Post

Ok just shot 3 clips on way home. With a little practice I easily achieved jello or whatever it is as bad as any clips here in dynamic IS mode using very slight left to right hand pivots. Same exact movements in both standard IS and with IS off produced none. So it's definitely the dynamic coupled with specific motion. Will upload clips later. Gotta pick up kid.


From my video I made here with the XA10 :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FY2WGEI_RR0

I was also only able to reproduce the effect using dynamic IS.

I never use dynamic IS for any reason though. I got in the habit of not using dynamic IS on the canon camcorder from my old canon camcorder, the HF m30. You got a higher quality, slightly sharper image along the entire zoom range if you used normal IS. So I went to normal IS and have stayed with it ever since.

While I haven't really witnessed the dynamic IS on the XA10 changing the image quality or sharpness along the zoom range, I just switched to normal IS when I first used it and have been perfectly happy since.

Also based on my walking samples in the above video, dynamic IS didn't really add much extra smoothness for me than the normal IS did. But it did add a fun wobbly effect.
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post #2204 of 4132
5/12/11 at 3:54pm


Ok, here is the single unedited clip uploaded directly to YouTube. yes there will be some YouTube compression and you are only seeing it at 30fps and it's shot full Auto at 60i. At 60i ite even looks more pronounced. I have made a comparison video of all 3 shots, featuring Dynamic IS, standard IS and IS off. Just rendered and uploading now.
I also uploaded these to vimeo but have to wait a bit as they take more time. but their compression is better.

If anyone wants this as a raw file please PM me your email and I will send it to you via Yousendit.
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post #2205 of 4132
5/12/11 at 3:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilfurbal View Post
From my video I made here with the XA10 :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FY2WGEI_RR0

I was also only able to reproduce the effect using dynamic IS.

I never use dynamic IS for any reason though. I got in the habit of not using dynamic IS on the canon camcorder from my old canon camcorder, the HF m30. You got a higher quality, slightly sharper image along the entire zoom range if you used normal IS. So I went to normal IS and have stayed with it ever since.

While I haven't really witnessed the dynamic IS on the XA10 changing the image quality or sharpness along the zoom range, I just switched to normal IS when I first used it and have been perfectly happy since.

Also based on my walking samples in the above video, dynamic IS didn't really add much extra smoothness for me than the normal IS did. But it did add a fun wobbly effect.
Hi: this on the XA10 Show me the Jello only a refresher of my own testing
this has been previously posted. http://www.vimeo.com/22891541

Luidoly
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post #2206 of 4132
5/12/11 at 4:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Mack View Post


Ok, here is the single unedited clip uploaded directly to YouTube. yes there will be some YouTube compression and you are only seeing it at 30fps and it's shot full Auto at 60i. At 60i ite even looks more pronounced. I have made a comparison video of all 3 shots, featuring Dynamic IS, standard IS and IS off. Just rendered and uploading now.
I also uploaded these to vimeo but have to wait a bit as they take more time. but their compression is better.

If anyone wants this as a raw file please PM me your email and I will send it to you via Yousendit.
Dave it seems to me, based on this clip (at least for your camera), the effect is seen not on a panning motion, but rather a rapid lateral back & forth hand movement. Not sure if that makes sense, but whenever I see you making a panning motion I don't see the effect. Maybe I'm wrong, but that seems like a very easily avoided motion and not one you'd tend to use videoing...at least I wouldn't.
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post #2207 of 4132
5/12/11 at 4:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
Dave it seems to me, based on this clip (at least for your camera), the effect is seen not on a panning motion, but rather a rapid lateral back & forth hand movement. Not sure if that makes sense, but whenever I see you making a panning motion I don't see the effect. Maybe I'm wrong, but that seems like a very easily avoided motion and not one you'd tend to use videoing...at least I wouldn't.
yep. Noticed that exact same thing. It's like when you move the camera too much the mode just gives in and lets it go and tries not to hold it anymore. The sony Active IS is a bit similar but it doesn't produce a funhouse distorted effect, just a sudden jerk. But I see it in every walking video I have shot so far so for me the auto mode is unusable in many instances. I do prefer manual mode but there are times when you just don't have the time to set everything. Just a bit annoying that a $1499 camcorder has a worse auto mode than many sub $1k models. And the AWB in auto mode has been way off every time I've used it. I AM very happy that it has the most manual control of any camcorder in it's price range and the PQ and lowlight are amazing. I'm not regretting the purchase just hoping a firmware fix can at least give you the option to de-select dynamic IS in auto mode. That would go a long way towards helping. An inaccurate WB can be fixed in editing. The funhouse mirror, nope.

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post #2208 of 4132
5/12/11 at 4:09pm


ok, now the comparison vid. You will see the effect is gone when dynamic is turned off.
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post #2209 of 4132
5/12/11 at 4:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilfurbal View Post
From my video I made here with the XA10 :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FY2WGEI_RR0

I was also only able to reproduce the effect using dynamic IS.

I never use dynamic IS for any reason though. I got in the habit of not using dynamic IS on the canon camcorder from my old canon camcorder, the HF m30. You got a higher quality, slightly sharper image along the entire zoom range if you used normal IS. So I went to normal IS and have stayed with it ever since.

While I haven't really witnessed the dynamic IS on the XA10 changing the image quality or sharpness along the zoom range, I just switched to normal IS when I first used it and have been perfectly happy since.

Also based on my walking samples in the above video, dynamic IS didn't really add much extra smoothness for me than the normal IS did. But it did add a fun wobbly effect.
Lilfurbal, I'll be damned if I can see any significant jello in your cam (or any at all for that matter) in any of your OIS modes. If it's there, it's GOT to be very very minor.

I kept thinking that if it's this kind of motion that it takes to bring about jello, I'd probably have thrown up a long time before I'd see it. I think some people would laugh if they saw these videos...honestly, the degree of movement is so absurd (not faulting you lilfurbal, I know you were trying to induce it) that nobody could tolerate it.

I see it in Dave's video, but not in yours whether you walking, panning or swinging.
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post #2210 of 4132
5/12/11 at 4:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Mack View Post
yep. Noticed that exact same thing. It's like when you move the camera too much the mode just gives in and lets it go and tries not to hold it anymore. The sony Active IS is a bit similar but it doesn't produce a funhouse distorted effect, just a sudden jerk. But I see it in every walking video I have shot so far so for me the auto mode is unusable in many instances. I do prefer manual mode but there are times when you just don't have the time to set everything. Just a bit annoying that a $1499 camcorder has a worse auto mode than many sub $1k models. And the AWB in auto mode has been way off every time I've used it.
Dave this is VERY important, you may have missed my post, but you can have the cam in what is essentially full auto mode but with a choice of OIS options. Simply put the top switch in "M" mode and put the camera in Program "P" mode. This leaves the camera in full auto but gives you the option (if you choose) of doing almost anything, including using Standard OIS if that's your choice.
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post #2211 of 4132
5/12/11 at 4:26pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Mack View Post
Garman, I am leaning towards keeping it now. I am curious to see how Steve's new one is. If he gets one that is night and day better I will consider it. I do think a lot is related to the lens itself and I might actually get one that's worse.

This is a real concern because if you get a good one then chances are you will be very happy with it and if it's a bad one it'll have to go back.
Best Buy sent me an email saying that it's backorderd and should ship in 2-3 weeks. I'm hoping sooner than that.
The plan is if that HF G10 has a jello problem I will buy an XA10 and hope the extra 500 clams will eliminate the jello. 2011 is half over with and still no camcorder.
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post #2212 of 4132
5/12/11 at 4:33pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gso125 View Post
Sorry about your job, if my union doesn't vote on a new insurance program soon there will be 30 to 40 layoffs. Ill be safe for now. As with the cost of the xf100 my wife wants me to thin out some of my hobby stuff. I have a large collection of guitars some could go, a full wood shop, and a few RC helicopters i could let go, at least thats what she wanted to hear. LOL

Yeah it's really tough out there but in this case my father is retiring and I work for him. I'm amazed he's stuck out working as long as he has but he's a workaholic. We haveenough jobs to keep us going longer but this isn't the sort of thing just anyone can do. My end is hard enough but to fabricate entire machines the way they do is incredible.
My dad should have retired when he hit 80 but he likes working too much.
I've gotten offers to work overseas in China but my wife isn't inclined to want to live there. I've pared down my hobbies years ago.
Manufacturing is all but dead in the US and that's pretty much all I know.
I expected we'd run a bit longer without him there but he wants a shutdown.
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post #2213 of 4132
5/12/11 at 4:35pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigboygelo View Post
cmon! you want me to show up in my son's dad night with that?

meant with the HALORIG...

You would be the cool, but geeky dad.
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post #2214 of 4132
5/12/11 at 4:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross

Dave this is VERY important, you may have missed my post, but you can have the cam in what is essentially full auto mode but with a choice of OIS options. Simply put the top switch in "M" mode and put the camera in Program "P" mode. This leaves the camera in full auto but gives you the option (if you choose) of doing almost anything, including using Standard OIS if that's your choice.
Ken, you rock. I'm golden. Didn't see all that before. I'm good.

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post #2215 of 4132
5/12/11 at 4:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Cebu

Yeah it's really tough out there but in this case my father is retiring and I work for him. I'm amazed he's stuck out working as long as he has but he's a workaholic. We haveenough jobs to keep us going longer but this isn't the sort of thing just anyone can do. My end is hard enough but to fabricate entire machines the way they do is incredible.
My dad should have retired when he hit 80 but he likes working too much.
I've gotten offers to work overseas in China but my wife isn't inclined to want to live there. I've pared down my hobbies years ago.
Manufacturing is all but dead in the US and that's pretty much all I know.
I expected we'd run a bit longer without him there but he wants a shutdown.
Steve. So sorry to hear, man.
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post #2216 of 4132
5/12/11 at 4:46pm
And the videos on vimeo if anyone is interested.


http://vimeo.com/23660663

http://vimeo.com/23661238
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post #2217 of 4132
5/12/11 at 4:50pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Mack View Post

ok, now the comparison vid. You will see the effect is gone when dynamic is turned off.

Dave I'm really not seeing any jello in that video. What I see looks like the lens trying to play catchup with the camera and it's not fast enough to do so.
For me the video at least the one you posted would be an acceptable picture if you weren't shaking it. Did you do a video where you were actually walking with it in daylight? I'd love to see a raw file of you just walking normally in daylight trying your best to keep it smooth and steady.
That will be very telling.
If you have one like that I'd like the raw file to put on my bigger TV.

Ken is right, you can use Program P or AE Mode (I forget which) and you get all the benefits of auto settings and the benefits of your own manual settings. That was the mode I used mostly when I had mine.
Canon's AWB can't figure out differences in lighting (most cams can't) so I used the kelvin adjustment. Too bad when you put it on the rear wheel you can't spin the dial and adjust it if you could that would be very cool. You have to use the touch screen.
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post #2218 of 4132
5/12/11 at 4:55pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Mack View Post
Steve. So sorry to hear, man.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Mack View Post
And the videos on vimeo if anyone is interested.


http://vimeo.com/23660663

http://vimeo.com/23661238

Thanks, I knew it was coming just wasn't sure until early May. He had a fainting spell and I think that kinda cinched it for him.
He's ok but was in business for almost 60 years.

I'll check out the videos, do you have any with you just walking and panning normally? I think your Cam just might be ok.
Thanks
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post #2219 of 4132
5/12/11 at 5:06pm
Yeah steve, jello is not the correct term for what I'm seeing. I'm seeing the dynamic Mode trying to compensate and creating a distorted funhouse mirror shaking effect. I uploaded a clip last night where you can see that effect distort the side of the screen when walking. Look at the building in the background on the upper right. The further back the object is the weirder the effect.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nx03ooYS7U8

Very noticeable to me around the 0:30 mark onwards on the upper right. And YouTube is only showing this at 30fps. At 60i on my front projector it was VERY noticeable and distracting. I have photography buds that spend thousands on a lens alone and they would door something like that instantly. I am nowhere near that meticulous but I can easily see if something looks a bit unnatural.
I shot some today that show it more clearly in daylight but am watching the kid now.
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post #2220 of 4132
5/12/11 at 5:47pm
Ok just for perspective, in case it seems like I'm just harping, the image the camera captures is excellent. The manual controls are excellent. The lowlight is beyond belief. And shooting in pf30 mode which captures 30 progressive frames in a 60i container looks perfect when properly deinterlaced. The pannys and the sonys do not have this mode so for me this is very welcome. The only downside to me is the dynamic IS mode. After using and being spoiled by the Sony cx550 active IS mode, the regular standard IS on the canon is good for holding the camera steady and pans but really doesn't do very much for say walking type shots.
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