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3D Theatre - VIP Product Thread - Page 60

post #1771 of 2235
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoss View Post

Also with the vip theater.

Not sure what you mean Mike. My Theater works great with the H5360.
post #1772 of 2235
Quote:
Originally Posted by SgtVideo View Post

You would be able to use the 96Hz bracket of the Theater+ or whatever they decide to call the consumer version.

As far as release dates something could probably happen earlier this year, as I would expect it would depend a lot of how far the existing stock of Theater's are reduced.

Follow any of the CES news developments as Jonathan and 3DNow will be there with some other interesting hardware as well. Let's see what they demo and announce. The dual-projector hopefuls might be interested as well.

Thanks for the response. I read the CES Theater 3D Now processor article (1/8/12). Available in early spring is MUCH more like it. I will definitely try it out given that time frame. Does anyone have any idea of the (approx) price on this? $300?? $500?? More?? Less??

Seriously, if I had to wait until towards the end of the year, I probably would have forked out the dough for a new 3D projector. I'm hoping this will serve me as a bridge until prices go down and quality goes up. I am also, by the way, a dual projector "hopeful".......
post #1773 of 2235
Quote:
Originally Posted by InCali View Post

Thanks for the response. I read the CES Theater 3D Now processor article (1/8/12). Available in early spring is MUCH more like it. I will definitely try it out given that time frame. Does anyone have any idea of the (approx) price on this? $300?? $500?? More?? Less??

Seriously, if I had to wait until towards the end of the year, I probably would have forked out the dough for a new 3D projector. I'm hoping this will serve me as a bridge until prices go down and quality goes up. I am also, by the way, a dual projector "hopeful".......

For those of you who are interested in the new 3D Now Theater model, check out

http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/2784...hd-display.htm
post #1774 of 2235
http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/2784...hd-display.htm

Read the article and found no mention of if it requires active or passive glasses?
post #1775 of 2235
Quote:
Originally Posted by clapple View Post

http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/2784...hd-display.htm

Read the article and found no mention of if it requires active or passive glasses?

Active. If you're interested in passive, there's a VERY interesting thread under something like "Ulimate 3D projector" (or thereabouts). They basically talk about setting up a dual projector system. If you look into it, you'll learn a lot about polarization of light, filters, screens, etc.

I can see doing something like this in the future.......
post #1776 of 2235
Quote:
Originally Posted by SgtVideo View Post

As Rolls-Royce indicated there is no difference they are all the same version
made by Bit Cauldron.

VIP3D will remain out of stock until they complete their transition with 3DNow.

There are also in the midst of testing to release new versions of 3D glasses so there is no reason to stock the old design.

I think I read that the theater can use either RF or DLP glasses? By reading the above, it appears that the RF glasses (at least) are proprietary and (therefore) expensive. Is that also true for DLP glasses?

Is there a direct contact where I can get info? The webpage doesn't really seem to be active. I sent an email to "sales@3DNow.com", but never got an answer. If there's any chance of me getting my grubby little paws on one of these newer model theater units and testing it on my projector, I'd maim, kill, and pay to do it.....
post #1777 of 2235
Quote:
Originally Posted by InCali View Post

I think I read that the theater can use either RF or DLP glasses? By reading the above, it appears that the RF glasses (at least) are proprietary and (therefore) expensive. Is that also true for DLP glasses?

Is there a direct contact where I can get info? The webpage doesn't really seem to be active. I sent an email to "sales@3DNow.com", but never got an answer. If there's any chance of me getting my grubby little paws on one of these newer model theater units and testing it on my projector, I'd maim, kill, and pay to do it.....

Not sure what you mean by the newer model.

The current Theater is same as last year except now it has the 3DNow logo on it.

The next generation Theater's have not been released.

The DLP glasses need to be used with a DSP type display via DLP-Link. DLP-link glasses
are fixed to 120hz so the display has to support that frequency.

RF glasses are not so much proprietary but more flexible with a increased cost component.
DLP glasses come with their admirers and detracters in the area of color rendition brand dependent
if you peruse some of the other threads around AVS.

The Theater will work with Rf, IR, DLP-link depending on the video configuration to be used.

The new partnership with 3DVIP and 3DNow is in it's infancy, so I do not know whether their infrastructure is responding timely to questions at this stage.

Did you try 3DNow's 866 number?

If you wrote them last week they were probably tied up with CES work.
post #1778 of 2235
Quote:
Originally Posted by SgtVideo View Post

Not sure what you mean by the newer model.

The current Theater is same as last year except now it has the 3DNow logo on it.

The next generation Theater's have not been released.

The DLP glasses need to be used with a DSP type display via DLP-Link. DLP-link glasses
are fixed to 120hz so the display has to support that frequency.

RF glasses are not so much proprietary but more flexible with a increased cost component.
DLP glasses come with their admirers and detracters in the area of color rendition brand dependent
if you peruse some of the other threads around AVS.

The Theater will work with Rf, IR, DLP-link depending on the video configuration to be used.

The new partnership with 3DVIP and 3DNow is in it's infancy, so I do not know whether their infrastructure is responding timely to questions at this stage.

Did you try 3DNow's 866 number?

If you wrote them last week they were probably tied up with CES work.

OK. I guess I got confused. I understood that "Last Year's" model utilized either 60 or 120Hz v-sync and that the "Newer" model was more robust in this area and had a 96Hz sync option (which is important to me). Does the current model support multiple sync options? If not, when will something like that be available?

Here's a recent link I found which gives some info:

http://www.avforums.com/tv/index.php?videoid=362
post #1779 of 2235
Quote:
Originally Posted by SgtVideo View Post

Not sure what you mean by the newer model.

The current Theater is same as last year except now it has the 3DNow logo on it.

The next generation Theater's have not been released.

The DLP glasses need to be used with a DSP type display via DLP-Link. DLP-link glasses
are fixed to 120hz so the display has to support that frequency.

RF glasses are not so much proprietary but more flexible with a increased cost component.
DLP glasses come with their admirers and detracters in the area of color rendition brand dependent
if you peruse some of the other threads around AVS.

The Theater will work with Rf, IR, DLP-link depending on the video configuration to be used.

The new partnership with 3DVIP and 3DNow is in it's infancy, so I do not know whether their infrastructure is responding timely to questions at this stage.

Did you try 3DNow's 866 number?

If you wrote them last week they were probably tied up with CES work.

Oh yeah....I wrote them back on 11/18/11 (sales@3DNow.com). Maybe that was too early??
post #1780 of 2235
Quote:
Originally Posted by InCali View Post

OK. I guess I got confused. I understood that "Last Year's" model utilized either 60 or 120Hz v-sync and that the "Newer" model was more robust in this area and had a 96Hz sync option (which is important to me). Does the current model support multiple sync options? If not, when will something like that be available?

Here's a recent link I found which gives some info:

http://www.avforums.com/tv/index.php?videoid=362

The newer model mentioned is the TheaterPlus and it has the frequency brackets mentioned earlier. It should be available later in 2012.

The regular and current Theater uses 60/120hz.
post #1781 of 2235
Quote:
Originally Posted by SgtVideo View Post

The newer model mentioned is the TheaterPlus and it has the frequency brackets mentioned earlier. It should be available later in 2012.

The regular and current Theater uses 60/120hz.

If "later" means late this year, I see a new 3D home projector in my future.....too bad. I would've bought something like that if it were available in the next couple months or so.....
post #1782 of 2235
Quote:
Originally Posted by SgtVideo View Post

The newer model mentioned is the TheaterPlus and it has the frequency brackets mentioned earlier. It should be available later in 2012.

The regular and current Theater uses 60/120hz.

And, by the way, THANK YOU (as always) for clarifying all of this. It really is appreciated.
post #1783 of 2235
Quote:
Originally Posted by SgtVideo View Post

The newer model mentioned is the TheaterPlus and it has the frequency brackets mentioned earlier. It should be available later in 2012.

The regular and current Theater uses 60/120hz.

I managed to get some information from Doug Smith, Sales Director of 3DNow (more details to follow...). It appears that they will be releasing a product in February of this year which will support a 96Hz v-sync rate and will cost about $600 + $180 for a starter kit (emitter and 1 pair of glasses). I'll post some details as I get them.

If they are going to be generally available next month, it seems like SOMEONE must have gotten one in advance. If so, can you provide any feedback? I'm very curious about this product.
post #1784 of 2235
Quote:
Originally Posted by InCali View Post

I managed to get some information from Doug Smith, Sales Director of 3DNow (more details to follow...). It appears that they will be releasing a product in February of this year which will support a 96Hz v-sync rate and will cost about $600 + $180 for a starter kit (emitter and 1 pair of glasses). I'll post some details as I get them.

If they are going to be generally available next month, it seems like SOMEONE must have gotten one in advance. If so, can you provide any feedback? I'm very curious about this product.

A little more information on the new 3D Now theater box....it should be available mid to late February. I spoke to Doug Smith and he told me if someone wanted to know exactly when they would be available they could email him at "dsmith@3dnow.com" and he would let them know. He said from 96Hz on up that there should be practically no loss of brightness or flicker and that improvements have been made over the last model for lower sync rates.

If anyone knows more, please advise.
post #1785 of 2235
Did he say whether the sync rate would be adjustable within a range, or just fixed increments?

My Optoma does 85hz, I believe, but not 96.
post #1786 of 2235
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebard View Post

Did he say whether the sync rate would be adjustable within a range, or just fixed increments?

My Optoma does 85hz, I believe, but not 96.

Since the Optoma cannot = or go above 96 then the next sync point
would be 72hz. I have the same situation with my AE4000. I was told
that running 72hz instead of 60 makes a big difference in flicker, even
though on a percentage basis you might not think so. Since I tolerate
fine at 60 guess I won't complain at 72 either.

Also that would be in 1080P and 7.1 audio as well.

Those are fixed sync points, not incremental.
post #1787 of 2235
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebard View Post

Did he say whether the sync rate would be adjustable within a range, or just fixed increments?

My Optoma does 85hz, I believe, but not 96.

I didn't ask about the fixed sync points, but, obviously others know more than I do. Speaking of my ignorance......I'm an engineer who knows very little about video. I've been looking into frames per second (fps) and v-sync rates.

On the surface it seems pretty self explanatory. It would appear that there is an advantage to having sync rates in multiples of 24 (72, 96, 120, etc.) because it matches up with fps. I came across some information which brings up a point (being the neophyte that I am) that I don't know the answer to. What are "active blanking" vertical pixel additions? From what I read, they seem to be 1/24th (45 of 1080) of the total pixels.

While I can talk to people all day about ethernet packets and electronics, I don't know much about video (though I'm learning more daily). My digging brings up some questions for me. Is a frame really 1125 (1080+45) pixels?

Does anyone know where I can find this information or does someone know the answer to this? I don't want to get off topic but am curious. Is the "active blanking" between every 1080 vertical pixels or every other? If this is part of the frame, this would appear to provide the tolerance for the speed of the active shutter glasses. Am I missing something??? If you think the speeds here are impressive (they are), I should talk to you about the lasers in laser printers sometime......

Oh yeah....Down with SOPA, PIPA, and those (hypocrites) who formerly supported it. For those who still do support it, I think you're misguided but don't have a problem with you.
post #1788 of 2235
I have had the 3D Theatre since I think April last year and it works great with Bluray but I just got a new Direct DVR that allows the Direct 3D stations to work. However espn3d and 3net say TV does not support content protection. N3D works just fine and Bluray works fine. What's wrong? Anybody run into this problem?
post #1789 of 2235
Quote:
Originally Posted by SgtVideo View Post

Not sure what you mean Mike. My Theater works great with the H5360.

What i was saying is the hd66 should work with the monoprice and vip theater since they work with the h5360.
post #1790 of 2235
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronomy View Post

I have had the 3D Theatre since I think April last year and it works great with Bluray but I just got a new Direct DVR that allows the Direct 3D stations to work. However espn3d and 3net say TV does not support content protection. N3D works just fine and Bluray works fine. What's wrong? Anybody run into this problem?

I don't have one yet (though I will soon) so I'm FAR from an expert, but I THINK the input to the Theater Box is supposed to be 1.4a compliant?? Is the DVR output 1.4a?? I don't know how robust the box is with regard to various inputs, but if there are other cable boxes which work (which I understand to be the case), maybe this is an issue with Direct? Sometimes, problems of this nature can be fixed with a firmware update. Maybe touch base with Direct tech support???
post #1791 of 2235
All is working now! My DVDO duo wasn't auto turning on hdcp. I forced it on for the HR23 and all 3D Channels work fine now.

Ron
post #1792 of 2235
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronomy View Post

I have had the 3D Theatre since I think April last year and it works great with Bluray but I just got a new Direct DVR that allows the Direct 3D stations to work. However espn3d and 3net say TV does not support content protection. N3D works just fine and Bluray works fine. What's wrong? Anybody run into this problem?

Google "HDCP Direct does not support content protection"
post #1793 of 2235
Quote:
Originally Posted by InCali View Post

Google "HDCP Direct does not support content protection"

Second times a charm....

post #1794 of 2235
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronomy View Post

All is working now! My DVDO duo wasn't auto turning on hdcp. I forced it on for the HR23 and all 3D Channels work fine now.

Ron

This part of the discussion brings up some questions that the detailed (always want to know everything about everything) part of me would like to understand more fully. It would appear that the 3D Now box has more than one operating mode and is able to distinguish various types of inputs and provide the appropriate output to a 1.3 HDMI device. My understanding is that the output of a 3D Blu Ray player uses what is known as frame packing which essentially puts two full 1080p "frames" (for lack of a better word) into one by utilizing the HDMI 1.4 (a?) specification (capable of transmitting receiving 4096x2160). These "packed" frames are separated from each other by "active blanking" (equal to 45 horizontal lines). I'm assuming the reason that the 3D Now box is able to provide full 1080p is by separating these two images and transmitting them sequentially via the HDMI 1.3 output. Do I have that essentially correct? If so, it means that same information comes to a HDMI 1.3 compliant TV/projector, but at half the number of frames. Depending on the refresh rate, this may or may not be noticeable.

As far as getting other (lower resolution...I think) 3D formats and how those are handled, I haven't really thought about how that works, but, again, would like to know.

But I digress.....The way this is appears to be handled brings up a couple of questions to me. If I currently have my projector connected to my (2D) Blu Ray DVD (I will replace it with a 3D DVD once I get the 3D Now box), I shouldn't have to replace the HDMI cable as long as it currently works without any problems. True? In other words, because I'm just using a HDMI 1.3 device, a standard category 1 HDMI cable should work.

The other issue which occurs to me is this....The HDMI 1.4 standard requires 4096x2160 (as I understand it). Is the difference between 1.4 and 1.4a have to do with supporting the higher vertical pixel resolution (45 in this particular case) required by the various frame packing formats?

I'm new at video, so I've probably got some things wrong. Any corrections or confirmations would be appreciated.
post #1795 of 2235
Quote:
Originally Posted by InCali View Post

This part of the discussion brings up some questions that the detailed (always want to know everything about everything) part of me would like to understand more fully. It would appear that the 3D Now box has more than one operating mode and is able to distinguish various types of inputs and provide the appropriate output to a 1.3 HDMI device. My understanding is that the output of a 3D Blu Ray player uses what is known as frame packing which essentially puts two full 1080p "frames" (for lack of a better word) into one by utilizing the HDMI 1.4 (a?) specification (capable of transmitting receiving 4096x2160). These "packed" frames are separated from each other by "active blanking" (equal to 45 horizontal lines). I'm assuming the reason that the 3D Now box is able to provide full 1080p is by separating these two images and transmitting them sequentially via the HDMI 1.3 output. Do I have that essentially correct? If so, it means that same information comes to a HDMI 1.3 compliant TV/projector, but at half the number of frames. Depending on the refresh rate, this may or may not be noticeable.

As far as getting other (lower resolution...I think) 3D formats and how those are handled, I haven't really thought about how that works, but, again, would like to know.

But I digress.....The way this is appears to be handled brings up a couple of questions to me. If I currently have my projector connected to my (2D) Blu Ray DVD (I will replace it with a 3D DVD once I get the 3D Now box), I shouldn't have to replace the HDMI cable as long as it currently works without any problems. True? In other words, because I'm just using a HDMI 1.3 device, a standard category 1 HDMI cable should work.

The other issue which occurs to me is this....The HDMI 1.4 standard requires 4096x2160 (as I understand it). Is the difference between 1.4 and 1.4a have to do with supporting the higher vertical pixel resolution (45 in this particular case) required by the various frame packing formats?

I'm new at video, so I've probably got some things wrong. Any corrections or confirmations would be appreciated.


The Directv receivers don't use frame pack 3D. Its SBS and maybe Over/Under depending on the station. Not sure if Directv uses exclusively SBS or not. You don't need the 1.4 spec cable for that.

Plus most shorter cables under 12 feet even if they are HDMI 1.0 versions should work with frame packed 3D video. Its only a bandwidth problem if the cable isn't manufactured very well and the cable has excessive signal reflections.

I have a BlueJeans HDMI 1.0 cable I purchased in the 2004/2005 time frame that passes 1080p/60 in deep color 36 bit just fine! It probably works fine with frame packed too although my PS3 isn't connected to that cable so i have not tried it.

I do think I am lucky I happend to get a very good 1.0 cable at the time I bought it. I have heard about other more expensive cables where some samples fail even passing only 1080p/60, 24 bit color in shorter lengths than my 43 foot 1.0 spec cable and made by BlueJeans cable. A friend of mine had this problem a few years ago. He probably just got a bad cable. I have never had any problems with BlueJeans cables.

I have also passed frame packed through a Monoprice HDMI 1.3 switcher with no issues.

Ron
post #1796 of 2235
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronomy View Post

The Directv receivers don't use frame pack 3D. Its SBS and maybe Over/Under depending on the station. Not sure if Directv uses exclusively SBS or not. You don't need the 1.4 spec cable for that.

Plus most shorter cables under 12 feet even if they are HDMI 1.0 versions should work with frame packed 3D video. Its only a bandwidth problem if the cable isn't manufactured very well and the cable has excessive signal reflections.

I have a BlueJeans HDMI 1.0 cable I purchased in the 2004/2005 time frame that passes 1080p/60 in deep color 36 bit just fine! It probably works fine with frame packed too although my PS3 isn't connected to that cable so i have not tried it.

I do think I am lucky I happend to get a very good 1.0 cable at the time I bought it. I have heard about other more expensive cables where some samples fail even passing only 1080p/60, 24 bit color in shorter lengths than my 43 foot 1.0 spec cable and made by BlueJeans cable. A friend of mine had this problem a few years ago. He probably just got a bad cable. I have never had any problems with BlueJeans cables.

I have also passed frame packed through a Monoprice HDMI 1.3 switcher with no issues.

Ron

As far as frame packing goes, I was talking about the 3D Blu Ray player. I realize the cable/satellite receivers don't use it. When I check the resolution watching Blu Ray (3D or otherwise....I have a 3D TV in addition to the projector), I get "1080p", when watching HD channels, I get 1080i. Not sure what other cable companies do.

My cables from my DVD and DVR are, by necessity, 40+ feet. I just wanted to make sure that I didn't have to get new ones. I can't see why I should have to. My projector is still 1.3 compliant and I shouldn't need a category 2 cable (at least as far as I can surmise).

I'm just learning about the details of this stuff and think I'm on the right track, but I'm figuring it out in a vacuum and will be stunned if I don't have some misunderstandings along the way.
post #1797 of 2235
Any news on my earlier question? Will the 3dNow support intermediate sync rates, or only 60 - 96 - 120hz?
post #1798 of 2235
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebard View Post

Any news on my earlier question? Will the 3dNow support intermediate sync rates, or only 60 - 96 - 120hz?

The word I got from the Sales Director of 3DNow says the new box (Theater + said to be available sometime in February) supports 60, 72, 96, 120Hz. It is $599 plus $179 for a starter kit (emitter and pair of glasses). Additional glasses are $129. The emitter I already have (at least) won't work. It appears that the emitter and glasses are proprietary, but I'm not 100% sure of that.

I'm waiting for an answer as to whether the sync issue experienced on some displays has been fixed. Will post when I hear.
post #1799 of 2235
Quote:
Originally Posted by InCali View Post

The word I got from the Sales Director of 3DNow says the new box (Theater + said to be available sometime in February) supports 60, 72, 96, 120Hz. It is $599 plus $179 for a starter kit (emitter and pair of glasses). Additional glasses are $129. The emitter I already have (at least) won't work. It appears that the emitter and glasses are proprietary, but I'm not 100% sure of that.

I'm waiting for an answer as to whether the sync issue experienced on some displays has been fixed. Will post when I hear.

That's a shame. I'm using the VIP with an Optoma hd70, which will support 85hz but no higher.

At that price, I'll probably look at upgrading to a full 3D projector instead; maybe the BenQ when it comes down a bit in price.
post #1800 of 2235
Quote:
Originally Posted by InCali View Post

As far as frame packing goes, I was talking about the 3D Blu Ray player. I realize the cable/satellite receivers don't use it. When I check the resolution watching Blu Ray (3D or otherwise....I have a 3D TV in addition to the projector), I get "1080p", when watching HD channels, I get 1080i. Not sure what other cable companies do.

My cables from my DVD and DVR are, by necessity, 40+ feet. I just wanted to make sure that I didn't have to get new ones. I can't see why I should have to. My projector is still 1.3 compliant and I shouldn't need a category 2 cable (at least as far as I can surmise).

I'm just learning about the details of this stuff and think I'm on the right track, but I'm figuring it out in a vacuum and will be stunned if I don't have some misunderstandings along the way.

I understand...I was just making a point that your older cables may work fine.
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