3D Theatre - VIP Product Thread - Page 61

Can some1 explain to me why people have 3d vip theatres and also have 3D projectors? I don't understand why. I would understand getting the 3d vip gamer with a 3d projector but I dont understand the benefit of the theatre. Can someone explain?

As in the case of projectors and other displays the so-called "3D Ready" was not really ready. For instance, some units could only get 3D from a computer and were not compatible with 3D BluRay. Or they could not handle 3D sidebyside and top2bottom. Basically the Theater makes those conversions possible. For instance Samsung made their 3D Ready rear projection DLP tvs but left owners in the cold and abandoned support. Those customers had to rely on a Mitsubishi solution for 3D. See the AVS Samsung HL65A750 threads if you wish to see what I mean.

Most brands made from 2011 are really 3D capable, the purchaser would need to do due diligence to determine if they handle the main three forms of 3D content formats. The Theater product fills the gap for somewhat older displays to maintain compatibility but it is not 100% for all displays.

The Theater also makes possible 3D viewing of BluRay 3D titles to non-3D capable displays as well.

It is not a 2D-3D conversion type system. It is not fool proof for all displays as some video displays have their own inherent weakness in maintaining frame-lock with the 3D signal. If considering check this forum or contact 3DVIP to see if your particular display may have that issue.

The Gamer has been discontinued and did not support SBS and T2B 3D. With 3DNow taking over distribution of the 3DVIP products new developments of the hardware are on the way.

Make sure the response you got from 3DNow sales was NOT in reference to the CI (commercial installers) version. That model has particular features that most of us will not require and hence it's higher costs. I suspect that is the case since you were given a February time frame.

As far as sync issues, it is a weakness or product for each particular display and is not caused at this point by the VIP or 3DNow hardware. Some manufacturers have been helpful in providing firmware to correct that issue and then there are some that don't care.

If I understand you correctly it sounds like you are interested in incremental syncing: 61,62,63,.....all the way up to 120Hz? That would not be the case for the TheaterPlus. If your Vsync falls within it's stated brackets you will be limited by your Vsync below the next highest sync bracket.

You left out one bracket BTW. Should be 60-72-96-120.

For instance, a lot of projectors have a max Vsync of 85hz. so they will operate at 72hz since it cannot reach the 96hz threshold. If the unit does 100 then it will operate at 96. At least this is how it was explained to me.

In my case Panny AE4000, I will be at 72. I will take 72 over 60 any day. Plus throw in 1080P as well.

Yeah.....it IS kind of pricey. If I had already sunk money into the 60/120Hz model, I would probably do the same. Now I'm glad I waited, but I did a lot of squirming over the last 6 or so months. Had my projector (50-100Hz) been able to support 120Hz, it would have been a no-brainer for me.

I don't know what the difference between 60 and 72Hz would look like, but people who know more than I do say it's substantial. It would be nice to see what it would look like before buying.....

Maybe you could get a decent price for your VIP box?? I was able to weasel my projector (and space which is in the garage) out of pure creativity (IMHO!!!!). My wife had been on me to clean out the garage, so I had a HUGE yard sale and got rid of all kinds of things I almost never used anymore (cement mixer, scaffolding, old electronics, etc.) and made about $1,500. When I say "I made", I should really say "we made"......in any case, my wife wanted a new couch for the living room. Of course I didn't want to just throw out the old one.....how to put it to good use??? "Honey, maybe we should put the old couch/chaise in the garage and set up a home theater? The kids would love to be able to invite their friends over for a movie night." Now of course, I had been researching prices for about 2 months and knew EXACTLY what I wanted and how much it was going to cost. I think bringing in the kids was the tipping point....one of my prouder moments....the kids almost never use the HT. Insta Haven!

Bought the wife a nice Xmas present and got pants, shirts and socks..... Insta 3DNow box!!!

Thanks for the tip....much appreciated. I will check it out. As for the frame lock issue, the sales guy "thinks" they were able to do a work around to fix the problem. I'm supposed to hear back from someone named Johnathan for confirmation. it's kind of hard to see how the failure of a display to lock sync could be fixed from the 3D Now side, but there are some pretty clever people out there....we'll see.

I have some interesting news.....I asked specifically about whether there was a separate consumer/custom installer box. I was told that according to discussions with engineering, the version to be released in February will support the addition of 72 and 96Hz. The next product (probably available during the summer) would be a distributed system which would allow multiple 2D displays to show 3D content (more expensive and would require a matrix unit). These are engineering plans, which, as I well know, should never be considered gospel.

Not likely, as my Samsung HL61A750 DLP TV has the frame lock issue and last I heard from VIP3D was they could not correct it from their end. I know Samsung won't bother.

So instead, I use it with a Panasonic AE4000 at 60hz and am Acer H5360 at 120hz.

I still haven't heard from Jonathan (I think he's the guy I saw on YouTube talking about the product) as to whether it really has been fixed from their end and agree that it seems unlikely. I have, however, been in the field of electronics for more years than I care to remember and have seen some pretty clever patches and workarounds.

I was intrigued by the two projectors you use. They have different resolutions and the one with lower resolution has the higher refresh rate. Which, overall, looks better to you? I think you mentioned that there is a slight flicker at 60Hz?? Can you see the lower resolution of the Acer?

What would be a really nice feature of the 3D Now product would be two inputs/outputs (I suppose that's the point of the rumored summer release, but something in between would be nice). As it stands now, I think I'll need to get a HDMI switch between the cable/DVD and the Theater + (or whatever it's called) box and just use a single input to my projector (I'm using two separate ones now). I suppose I could just physically unplug and plug shorty HDMI cables to the 3D Now box, but a switch would be more convenient and likely cause less problems over the long haul due to excessive wear. Anybody know of any good switches for a reasonable price?

How do you connect your two projectors?

Has anyone compiled a list of what displays work/don't work? I have a Sanyo PLV-Z2000. Anyone know whether Sanyo has this problem or not?

finally I order a 3D-VIP displayer at the beginning of Jan/2012 but as today, I even don't know it shipped yet......~_~ .....

the thing I can do is only keep waiting, although I already get 2 RF glasses and emitter but without the Displayer I can do Nothing.....

Since the Theater outputs 3D at 1280x720P to either projector, resolution-wise they look about the same. The Acer has the big edge at 120hz (no flicker) and the higher DLP brightness level. Even though I tolerate the 60hz 3D it is a more comfortable experience for my 64 year old eyes at 120. If you are not in any hurry you could just hold out for the 1080P version. I am not convinced on firm pricing for this years product as yet.

I use the Acer on a 16x9 high power and the Panny on a 2.35 Carada screen. They are switched by a Monoprice HDMI Matrix switcher that is near the two projectors. Depending on the type of movie determines my choice of projectors and screens.

If a person wanted to put together a large screen 3D system at a reasonable price using the Acer H5360 or Optoma HD66 with a Da-Lite HP pull down screen and Theater combo would give a large viewing experience for the money. You could spend about the same money trying to accomplish that with a 55-65+ inch 3D Ready range TVs but have less immersion.

Main thing with having projectors is the environment without having intrusive light sources from other areas entering the viewing area.

Where did you order it?

I'd forgotten. The old displayer doesn't do 1080p. Thanks for the info on the switcher. That's about what I figured and will get one. I really like my Sanyo and I can basically make the environment pitch black. When the lights are down and the heavy drapes are pulled and secured, it looks frelling great. Just hope it doesn't have the sync issue. The specs specifically say 50-100Hz, so it APPEARS like it should be able to lock. We'll see. Maybe this guy Jonathan will have more info.

With some of the commentary and literature regarding the 3DNow upcoming product line I was able to make contact to get better clarification regarding the Theater product line for 2012.

Either a representative from either 3DNow or 3DVIP will hopefully post information that will help clear up some of discussions in the past threads. So I look forward to that as I am getting a little confused myself between the capabilities of Theater and Theater+

It sounds like there is a revision of the current Theater that I am not clear about, so I look forward to what is revealed on that subject in a few days.

Has anyone used the VIP on a passive tv like an LG, vizio or toshiba?

I would think you could have the best of both worlds.
Cheap(great for groups of people watching) native passive support a with a softer image no flicker.
Or a sharper more expensive solution with some flicker. I was thinking of using this set up for myself when I really want that extra edge in the video.

I had the VIP and returned it because it did not work my ps3 and old Samsung tv. The tv would not detect 1080p, only 720p and 1080ips3 with vip hated this,
I just bought a LG55LW6500.

I enjoy the set but sometimes I think id like to have that sharper video active supports since the screen will not half the resolution when in its native passive mod
The set is rated at 240HZ so it should handle the VIP with minimal flicker..

Thanks for that! You've obviously got more juice that I do (I'm sorta like that plum that's been in the sun for too long.....). I've tried writing someone named Jonathan (who I'm sure has better things to do than answer my inane questions), but haven't gotten a response yet.

Maybe we can also get a definitive answer about the frame lock "problem", whether some clever person solved it (I know....doubtful), or if there is some sort of "known worky" and/or "known no-worky" list of displays.

I think I just saved myself a lot of money. I looked closely through the owner's manual of my projector (adds new meaning to RTFM) and saw this:

D-1080i 1920x1080 − 59.94/60
D-1080i 1920x1080 − 50.00
D-1080p 1920x1080 − 59.94/60
D-1080p 1920x1080 − 50.00
D-1080p 1920x1080 − 24.00

These are the vertical sync rates the projector is known to accept for a given resolution. There is also a note which states:

"Note:
You might be able to project images even when signals other than above are inputted, however the functions of the projector could be limited."

It appears I'm guaranteed 60Hz and maybe more (doubt it)??? The question is "is it worth spending the extra dough and taking a chance"? I'm leaning towards trying the lower end model (depending on the forthcoming clarifications) and, if I don't like it, selling my projector and getting a model which will handle the 120Hz.

I was one of the guys who couldn't get my JVC RS1 to work at 60hz. Jonathan tried to do what he could for me but **** out of luck. So I use my RS1 for 2D and picked up an Acer H5360 dlp 3D ready projector for 3D. I have been very happy with my dual setup plus no flicker. Once you see big 3D image with no flicker or ghosting its hard to try something else. Also the Acer is very bright.

Ron

Only because I've done beta testing for them and Bit Cauldron.

Jonathan is one of the prime partners of 3DVIP. His time has been tied up with the ongoing changes in the joint venture with 3DNow. That's why things I've previously known have been revised before I knew about it. The new brochure is one of them. If this Theater is a new a version as it appears to be, then the question remains will there also be a version of it with the other frequency brackets.

Hopefully we can get an idea if they reveal that on here. A lot depends on whether the remaining design is depleted enough before going public on a new model and jeopardizing the sales of the earlier model.

Have you already tried your questions in here that haven't been answered?

Your projector will still do a fine job for BluRay in it's current form. Why not just add something like the Acer H5360 which will give 1280x720P/120 3D in native form and keep your current projector? More than likely your projector maximum Vsync will reach 85hz, so you could use the 72hz bracket if it turns out it is an economic option for which ever converter device has those options.

I ended up mounting one above my AE4000, I just put a box above the AE4000 since the H5360 has a top down image offset and it's small and light. When done I just put it away. Like Ronomy says it's hard to watch 60Hz 3D when you've watched it on the Acer at 120.

In my setup I have an expanded entertainment furniture system which surrounds a 61" Samsung RP DLP TV. Attached to it I have 5' of thin aluminum strip hangers to support an 88" 2.35 Carada screen. I just hang the Carada screen when 2.35 is desired and align it's registry marks for center to the Panasonic projector. When done it is removed. Above all that is a pulldown Da-Lite 92" 16x9 High Power screen for use with either the Panasonic or the H5360. That way I gave myself a lot of viewing options. It can be configured in minutes.

The main question I had was to ask whether or not the frame lock issue had been fixed (though I don't see how it could be, the supplier side of the business thought it had, so I thought it wouldn't hurt to ask).

The other question I had was how the device itself worked. I'm trying to wrap my head around the packed frame to 1.3 compliant frame. I think I have it figured out, but am not sure. There's really nothing out "there" that I could find which spells it out. The details are their business, but, essentially, I think either the resolution or the frame rate gets cut in half. As the "soon-to-be" box does 1080p, I'm assuming the frame rate to the 1.3 display gets halved relative to the 1.4a input (that's why refresh rate is so important). Just morbid curiosity on my part......

I am DETERMINED to find a bridge to 3D for my projector system (I have 3d in my living room in the form of a 73" Mits) until passive become affordable (I've read the entire "Ultimate 3D Projection System" thread and found it fascinating, but with good filters, screens, two projectors, etc. it's somewhat out of my price range right now as are the new, single projector passive systems.). The 3DNow/VIP solution looks like the smartest solution for the dollar if I can find an acceptable projector with a 120Hz refresh rate. I would get an Acer, I suppose, but I'm a little hesitant about the lower resolution. I'm the guy who sits in the 3rd row at the IMAX theater (not the fake mini max at the AMC theater) and figure I'll set up my furniture about 12" (maybe a little more) from my 10" screen. I want to be sure the resolution doesn't become an issue.

To that end, I did some pretty extensive searching last night for a reasonably priced (even used) 1080p projector with a refresh rate of 120Hz and didn't come up with much. Hopefully, I can find some help here. I was also thinking that this guy Jonathan must have tested about a gazillion projectors and might have some thoughts about what seems to work best from his testing (I understand....no promises) or the specs of what's out there. Maybe someone (Jonathan) could include in the upcoming "clarification" post the specs of several projectors (resolution and refresh rate). We could then at least read the reviews, look at prices, and decide which way to go. Maybe everyone could share what they know and we could create a spreadsheet of specs so other people don't have to go through all of the hassle.

Is the difference that much? I only have my setup to base it on.

I mean, for $600 you're going from 30hz per eye to 36...

I only have Jonathan's opinion since he has tested it at 72 that flicker is greatly reduced. I wonder too myself as that only seems like a 20% improvement over 60. But then how hard is it to fool the eye? A magician's hand certainly can at a slower rate.

Would I want to keep my AE4000 with an upgrade such as that? Maybe, as I have less than 100 hours on a $2k projector. Plus it would restore it's full resolution. I'm sure everyone would evaluate that differently with respect to their current setup.

if anybody's interested, i have a vip 3d theater w/rf receiver(no glasses) for sale. pm me for price

I would like to know which projectors have been tested at all of the refresh rates above 60Hz and get a general idea of what I can expect at any given refresh rate (again, no promises expected). Given that information, it's easy to check the resolution of the projectors. To date, I have found exactly 2 projectors with a 120Hz refresh rate which are 1080p. They are both high end projectors (JVC and Sony) which cost in excess (easily) of 5K. Maybe other lower cost projectors work at higher refresh rates even though the specs don't guarantee it??? If so, I'm willing to take a shot.

Not really, you input an inappropriate signal you get a blank screen. If they don't specify 120hz at the input then it's blank.

Also the sets that claim 120 and 240hz in truemotion and other ways of stating upscales, if they don't take 120 at the input, same deal. Terms like truemotion and such are internal process scaling and not the same as taking at the input source. Most manufacturers pretty much state refresh rate relative to resolution in their charts. So if you don't see it listed pretty much count it out.

Oh man....I have a lot to learn. I read somewhere that just because the spec said "60Hz", at a given resolution, that a projector might be able handle a higher v-sync rate. In certain IEEE ethernet standards, for example, (and not analogous because we're dealing with loss rather than a frequency lock) you can exceed specified cable lengths and (often) you can still communicate. The idea being that the engineering specs "can" be exceeded, but, if you exceed them, all bets are off.

What I'm looking for is a relatively inexpensive solution which will give me adequate resolution, brightness, and lack of "flicker". I like the idea the 3DNow/VIP group has come up with (very, very clever as I see it). What I'm doing is weighing the cost of buying a new 3D system (Panasonic and Epson both have projectors at about $2700 and dropping from what I can tell) against saving some $$$ which would essentially buy me a bridge until a passive system drops into a price range that doesn't strike fear into my heart.

In addition, I would love to know if there are resources out there I can use to educate myself with regard to the technical details of video/audio transmission (esp as it relates to the transmission of signal between video source to display).

I can understand your reasoning. Since the displays are digitaly controlled it doesn't take much out of the ordinary for the firmware to reject and unknown signal.

Individually I personally am not in-depth or the technical underpinings of video either but folks in the past have pointed in the direction of Wikepedia, surprisingly there was quite a bit of info to work with and build on to add additional understanding from further internet searches.

In regards to passive, even though the wife and I enjoy it at our local 3D establishment, we both feel viewing it using active shutter is superior to what we see in RealD 3D. Just seems to have more pop, even at 720P.

You can't beat passive for the economy of and convenience of the glasses though.

If passive is your goal then you may be a holdout for the "integrated" dual projectors when they become more consumer mainstream. That's another story. Will they be available 2012? Odds are improving in that regard.

IF 3DNow releases a passive dual projector converter, then all I need to do is add an additional matching Acer H5360 and avoid mortgaging the farm so to speak.