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3D Theatre - VIP Product Thread - Page 62

post #1831 of 2235
i was at best buy once again today... and took a moment to view their 55" TV displays... both passive real 3d and active... and i gotta say that once again i was less than impressed.

i'm not sure if it my vision, but i can literally see the jerky frame rates... and to top it off... i can easily see the pixels clear as day...

...so a screen door effect, jerky motion movie of 2hours on a 55in TV would drive me nuts. cool at times... but a headache none the less.

i sure hope that a 1080p at 72hz 3d experience with a 3dnow converter is a considerbly more enjoyable experience.
post #1832 of 2235
Quote:
Originally Posted by pb_maxxx View Post

i was at best buy once again today... and took a moment to view their 55" TV displays... both passive real 3d and active... and i gotta say that once again i was less than impressed.

i'm not sure if it my vision, but i can literally see the jerky frame rates... and to top it off... i can easily see the pixels clear as day...

...so a screen door effect, jerky motion movie of 2hours on a 55in TV would drive me nuts. cool at times... but a headache none the less.

i sure hope that a 1080p at 72hz 3d experience with a 3dnow converter is a considerbly more enjoyable experience.

My 64 year old eyes must not be that sensitive. I haven't see anything look like you describe on my system. Only noticeable part would be flicker at 60hz in the brighter scenes, at 120hz as comfortable as 2D. Color correction appears slightly off with shutter glasses but not at a level to turn me off. At 60hz about the last third of the movie I get tired eyed abit. Then again, I'm wearing 3D glasses over regular glasses.

I run it on two different projectors and haven't bothered trying Best Buy or any other retailer to view 3D on regular TVs. I own 4 3D movies and they are as smooth as any other 2D BluRay.
post #1833 of 2235
Quote:
Originally Posted by SgtVideo View Post

My 64 year old eyes must not be that sensitive. I haven't see anything look like you describe on my system. Only noticeable part would be flicker at 60hz in the brighter scenes, at 120hz as comfortable as 2D. Color correction appears slightly off with shutter glasses but not at a level to turn me off. At 60hz about the last third of the movie I get tired eyed abit. Then again, I'm wearing 3D glasses over regular glasses.

I run it on two different projectors and haven't bothered trying Best Buy or any other retailer to view 3D on regular TVs. I own 4 3D movies and they are as smooth as any other 2D BluRay.

For me, the question still remains...."WHICH projectors WILL operate correctly at 72, 96, and 120HZ, WHAT is their native resolution, WHO is going to tell us, and WHEN can we find out?" (The which, will, what are really the only ones important to me, but I figured that since I was on a roll, I might as well add some more Ws ).
post #1834 of 2235
Quote:
Originally Posted by InCali View Post

For me, the question still remains...."WHICH projectors WILL operate correctly at 72, 96, and 120HZ, WHAT is their native resolution, WHO is going to tell us, and WHEN can we find out?" (The which, will, what are really the only ones important to me, but I figured that since I was on a roll, I might as well add some more Ws ).

I'm pretty sure that there will never be a list like that from any manufacturer-it's too narrow in scope and really isn't valuable for people not interested in using a 3D adapter like the Theater. Probably the best you can do would be to pick a projector for its 2D performance and then scan its online users manual if there is one or contact its maker for info on supported scanrates.
post #1835 of 2235
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolls-Royce View Post

I'm pretty sure that there will never be a list like that from any manufacturer-it's too narrow in scope and really isn't valuable for people not interested in using a 3D adapter like the Theater. Probably the best you can do would be to pick a projector for its 2D performance and then scan its online users manual if there is one or contact its maker for info on supported scanrates.

I dunno... Optoma released a list of 14 projectors tested successfully with their 3dxl, and a couple weren't even made by them. It wouldn't need to be all-inclusive, but something like that would be a good start.
post #1836 of 2235
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebard View Post

I dunno... Optoma released a list of 14 projectors tested successfully with their 3dxl, and a couple weren't even made by them. It wouldn't need to be all-inclusive, but something like that would be a good start.

Obviously, I agree with you

I wouldn't expect a comprehensive list, but if we could just know what displays/projectors have been tested, it would ENCOURAGE me to buy the device. Not knowing whether a several hundred dollar investment will get me anything would probably discourage me from making that kind of purchase. I'm not saying I won't go ahead and give it a shot (although return policy is obviously going to play into my decision), but if I knew in advance that it actually worked on device X, Y, and Z at XXHz, it would probably be a no-brainer for me to buy it. It's such a great idea.......
post #1837 of 2235
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolls-Royce View Post

I'm pretty sure that there will never be a list like that from any manufacturer-it's too narrow in scope and really isn't valuable for people not interested in using a 3D adapter like the Theater. Probably the best you can do would be to pick a projector for its 2D performance and then scan its online users manual if there is one or contact its maker for info on supported scanrates.

And, also, I have looked over more projectors than I care to remember. What I generally see is 60Hz at 1080p/i resolutions. Now, if there weren't projectors/displays out there at the higher resolutions which worked at the higher vertical scan rate, they wouldn't waste their time developing something with the added speed. I'd just like to know what's been tested and works. I'm less concerned about engineering specs. Those can often be exceeded without performance being impacted.
post #1838 of 2235
HDMI chips that handle 1080p at 120hz just came out I think. You will not find any projectors yet that can do it. Only 1080p projectors that can process frame packed internally can display 3D, 1080p at 120hz. 720p is the best you can do at 120hz.
post #1839 of 2235
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronomy View Post

HDMI chips that handle 1080p at 120hz just came out I think. You will not find any projectors yet that can do it. Only 1080p projectors that can process frame packed internally can display 3D, 1080p at 120hz. 720p is the best you can do at 120hz.

See?? This is WHY I like this forum. Dumb asses like me get information from people who know more. I DID see a couple of pretty high end projectors that did 1080p and 120Hz (JVC and Sony as I recall.....mighta been 2 or 3D....wasn't paying attention) which cost about 6 or 7K. Clearly not an option for me.

If there's something that will "function" well (again, don't care about eng specs as long as it works) at 96 or maybe 72Hz and does 1080p, I'd consider the purchase of it and the box. Otherwise, maybe I'll call in some chips and spring for a Panny 7000 or Epson 5010 or ???? They're about $2700 now and prices appear to be dropping somewhat over the last few months.
post #1840 of 2235
Quote:
Originally Posted by InCali View Post

See?? This is WHY I like this forum. Dumb asses like me get information from people who know more. I DID see a couple of pretty high end projectors that did 1080p and 120Hz (JVC and Sony as I recall.....mighta been 2 or 3D....wasn't paying attention) which cost about 6 or 7K. Clearly not an option for me.

If there's something that will "function" well (again, don't care about eng specs as long as it works) at 96 or maybe 72Hz and does 1080p, I'd consider the purchase of it and the box. Otherwise, maybe I'll call in some chips and spring for a Panny 7000 or Epson 5010 or ???? They're about $2700 now and prices appear to be dropping somewhat over the last few months.

They do but the conversion to sequential frame rates at 120hz is done in the projector.

Was thinking it would be good to see a list of projectors they have tested the new frame rates on. Is it mostly CRT projectors?
post #1841 of 2235
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronomy View Post

They do but the conversion to sequential frame rates at 120hz is done in the projector.

Was thinking it would be good to see a list of projectors they have tested the new frame rates on. Is it mostly CRT projectors?

Even I get the concept that a display designed to output 60Hz refresh can't be forced to double it (or lock on a particular frequency). What I want to know is "Which displays (mainly projectors cuz I want decent, 10' screen, 3D on the cheap) will work at refresh rates higher than 60Hz?" I'd also like to get some idea about what the 72 and 96 Hz increments buy you and what displays (uh....projectors) function at those rates.

Don't wanna go back to dem ol' flicka movies......
post #1842 of 2235
Quote:
Originally Posted by InCali View Post

Even I get the concept that a display designed to output 60Hz refresh can't be forced to double it (or lock on a particular frequency). What I want to know is "Which displays (mainly projectors cuz I want decent, 10' screen, 3D on the cheap) will work at refresh rates higher than 60Hz?" I'd also like to get some idea about what the 72 and 96 Hz increments buy you and what displays (uh....projectors) function at those rates.

Don't wanna go back to dem ol' flicka movies......


Why don't you just get an Acer H9500BD or the Optoma hd33? No converter required. Its built in and you get 1080p 120fps 3D or 60fps for each eye.
post #1843 of 2235
Dear, finally I received my 3D-Displayer today but I don't know it got damaged or not.

once I connected all the cable and power on the BD player, VIP3D, AVR, TV....
I got the BDplayer's menu screen in Pink which it should be in Black!

Am I need to make any setting in Displayer? and where can I set it?
according to Consigna, it should be just plug and play.
but the color totally wrong!! what should I do?? Please advice.

Thank you very much !!
post #1844 of 2235
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronomy View Post

Why don't you just get an Acer H9500BD or the Optoma hd33? No converter required. Its built in and you get 1080p 120fps 3D or 60fps for each eye.

Lens shift is (almost) a must for me. I don't think the projectors you mention have that feature. I'm a niche market person. From what I can tell, the lens shift feature in most 3D projectors costs a fair amount of dough. I haven't looked into picture quality between the 1.4a compliant projectors which do and don't have lens shift because I've been focused on a solution (VIP/3DNow) which should serve as a bridge between active and passive 3D (And, as a proud Scot, I want to do it as cheaply as may be). If I decide to purchase a projector which can handle frame packing, I will certainly look into the pro$$$ and con$$$ of the lens shift/cost/projector mounting issue.

I've looked at a LOT of 2D projectors which might benefit from the VIP/3DNow product and am hoping things work out. If not, I'll find a reasonably priced 3D system along the lines of a Panny 7000/Epson 5010/Other???, or, perhaps, something along the lines you suggest; a 3D projector without lens shift. You can do a lot with the difference between $2700 and $1700 when it comes to mounting the projector and fine tuning horizontal/vertical shift.
post #1845 of 2235
Quote:
Originally Posted by skyfiction View Post

Dear, finally I received my 3D-Displayer today but I don't know it got damaged or not.

once I connected all the cable and power on the BD player, VIP3D, AVR, TV....
I got the BDplayer's menu screen in Pink which it should be in Black!

Am I need to make any setting in Displayer? and where can I set it?
according to Consigna, it should be just plug and play.
but the color totally wrong!! what should I do?? Please advice.

Thank you very much !!


PS3/BDP ->VIP3D Displayer->Denon AVR (3D supported)-> Plasma TV

I even not yet start to play the 3D content, the 2D menu already got the Pink Color.

I really want to cry now. I waiting so long to get it but finally just got the Pink Screen......
post #1846 of 2235
Quote:
Originally Posted by skyfiction View Post

PS3/BDP ->VIP3D Displayer->Denon AVR (3D supported)-> Plasma TV

I even not yet start to play the 3D content, the 2D menu already got the Pink Color.

I really want to cry now. I waiting so long to get it but finally just got the Pink Screen......

Pink screens generally are the result of a color space mismatch. Either the display is expecting RGB and it's getting YCbCr, or it's expecting YCbCr and is getting RGB. The first step is to take the receiver out of the loop and connect the Displayer direct to the TV. Try it with both the BDP and PS3 and let us know what happens...
post #1847 of 2235
Quote:
Originally Posted by InCali View Post

Lens shift is (almost) a must for me. I don't think the projectors you mention have that feature. I'm a niche market person. From what I can tell, the lens shift feature in most 3D projectors costs a fair amount of dough. I haven't looked into picture quality between the 1.4a compliant projectors which do and don't have lens shift because I've been focused on a solution (VIP/3DNow) which should serve as a bridge between active and passive 3D (And, as a proud Scot, I want to do it as cheaply as may be). If I decide to purchase a projector which can handle frame packing, I will certainly look into the pro$$$ and con$$$ of the lens shift/cost/projector mounting issue.

I've looked at a LOT of 2D projectors which might benefit from the VIP/3DNow product and am hoping things work out. If not, I'll find a reasonably priced 3D system along the lines of a Panny 7000/Epson 5010/Other???, or, perhaps, something along the lines you suggest; a 3D projector without lens shift. You can do a lot with the difference between $2700 and $1700 when it comes to mounting the projector and fine tuning horizontal/vertical shift.

Sounds like a plan! I had similar issues when I was picking but there were not many 3D projectors out yet. Ended up with the Acer H5360 and a teleconverter lens so i could throw a 10 foot image from 21 feet away. My JVC RS1 wouldn't lock frame rate so it drifted. I couldn't use the 60hz option on the VIP Theater. I love it with my H5360 though. No ghosting at all on a DLP projector.
post #1848 of 2235
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolls-Royce View Post

Pink screens generally are the result of a color space mismatch. Either the display is expecting RGB and it's getting YCbCr, or it's expecting YCbCr and is getting RGB. The first step is to take the receiver out of the loop and connect the Displayer direct to the TV. Try it with both the BDP and PS3 and let us know what happens...

here are some setting I tried:
1) BDP -> VIP3D -> 20" LCD mon (can play 3D content and without the PINK)

2) BDP -> VIP3D -> 50" Plasma TV (PINK)

3) PS3 -> VIP3D -> 50" Plasma TV (PINK)

4) PS3 -> VIP3D -> Denon AVR -> 50" Plasma TV (2D Menu without PINK, since I haven't got any 3D PS3 games and now is downloading some Demo)

so now what setting should I need to change? why PS3 directly go TV passed by VIP3D will get Pink but if the AVR between the loop, the PInk is gone?!
post #1849 of 2235
Quote:
Originally Posted by skyfiction View Post

here are some setting I tried:
1) BDP -> VIP3D -> 20" LCD mon (can play 3D content and without the PINK)

2) BDP -> VIP3D -> 50" Plasma TV (PINK)

3) PS3 -> VIP3D -> 50" Plasma TV (PINK)

4) PS3 -> VIP3D -> Denon AVR -> 50" Plasma TV (2D Menu without PINK, since I haven't got any 3D PS3 games and now is downloading some Demo)

so now what setting should I need to change? why PS3 directly go TV passed by VIP3D will get Pink but if the AVR between the loop, the PInk is gone?!

It appears that you may need to change the colorspace selection on the PS3 or plasma (if there is one). If it's set to RGB, try YCbCr. If YCbCr, set it to RGB. The receiver may be changing the colorspace during its processing which would be why there's no pink on the 2D menu. I do recommend you put the Displayer AFTER the receiver if the plasma can accept a 720p signal. That way the PS3, BDP, and receiver are all "seeing" a 3D display (the Displayer).
post #1850 of 2235
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolls-Royce View Post

It appears that you may need to change the colorspace selection on the PS3 or plasma (if there is one). If it's set to RGB, try YCbCr. If YCbCr, set it to RGB. The receiver may be changing the colorspace during its processing which would be why there's no pink on the 2D menu. I do recommend you put the Displayer AFTER the receiver if the plasma can accept a 720p signal. That way the PS3, BDP, and receiver are all "seeing" a 3D display (the Displayer).

1st, I also want to place the Displayer after the AVR but once I do that both BDP and PS3 are get the **** screen, it is not only PINK but crazy lot of noise.

I also tried the Demo Killzone 3D in PS3, it is Great.

so now I wonder why BDP->Displayer->AVR->TV = PINK but
PS3->Displayer->AVR->TV = got good 3D picture.

In PS3, I set manythings are AUTO, so where can I set it sent out the signal is RGB or YCbCr?
post #1851 of 2235
Quote:
Originally Posted by skyfiction View Post

1st, I also want to place the Displayer after the AVR but once I do that both BDP and PS3 are get the **** screen, it is not only PINK but crazy lot of noise.

I also tried the Demo Killzone 3D in PS3, it is Great.

so now I wonder why BDP->Displayer->AVR->TV = PINK but
PS3->Displayer->AVR->TV = got good 3D picture.

In PS3, I set manythings are AUTO, so where can I set it sent out the signal is RGB or YCbCr?

Via a Google search: the color space selections can be found under the BD / DVD Video Output Format (HDMI) menu. Settings > Video Settings > BD / DVD Video Output Format (HDMI)
post #1852 of 2235
Quote:
Originally Posted by InCali View Post

Lens shift is (almost) a must for me. I don't think the projectors you mention have that feature. I'm a niche market person. From what I can tell, the lens shift feature in most 3D projectors costs a fair amount of dough. I haven't looked into picture quality between the 1.4a compliant projectors which do and don't have lens shift because I've been focused on a solution (VIP/3DNow) which should serve as a bridge between active and passive 3D (And, as a proud Scot, I want to do it as cheaply as may be). If I decide to purchase a projector which can handle frame packing, I will certainly look into the pro$$$ and con$$$ of the lens shift/cost/projector mounting issue.

I've looked at a LOT of 2D projectors which might benefit from the VIP/3DNow product and am hoping things work out. If not, I'll find a reasonably priced 3D system along the lines of a Panny 7000/Epson 5010/Other???, or, perhaps, something along the lines you suggest; a 3D projector without lens shift. You can do a lot with the difference between $2700 and $1700 when it comes to mounting the projector and fine tuning horizontal/vertical shift.

The Acer H9500DB has lens shift.
post #1853 of 2235
Quote:
Originally Posted by Walternate View Post

The Acer H9500DB has lens shift.

Thanks for that. The specs I checked out on another site were silent wrt lens shift and I assumed that meant it was non-existent. Baddddd assumption on my part.

BTW, Please stay away from Massive Dynamic. Bishop Dynamic is badddd
post #1854 of 2235
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthBuck View Post

Via a Google search: the color space selections can be found under the BD / DVD Video Output Format (HDMI) menu. Settings > Video Settings > BD / DVD Video Output Format (HDMI)

This is the setting I try tonight:
1) PS3 (HDMI Auto)->AVR (checked color space is RGB 4:4:4, 8Bit)->Plasma

2) PS3 (HDMI Auto)-> 3D Displayer-> AVR (checked the input color space still is RGB 4:4:4, 8Bit) ->Plasma = can play Killzone 3D

3) BDP (HDMI Auto)->AVR (checked color space is RGB 4:4:4, 8bit)->Plasma

4) BDP (HDMI Auto)-> 3D Displayer->AVR (checked the input color space change to X.V.1080p)->Plasma = PINK

why it changed to be X.V.1080p? when didn't connect 3D Displayer was RGB 4:4:4, 8bit. and same connection do in PS3 there will not have any Color Space changing.

5) BDP/PS3 -> AVR -> 3D Displayer -> Plasma = the screen is frozen!can't see anything, the AVR even cannot show the AVR menu screen.
on Plasma side, there only can set STB/DVD or PC mode, but both I try, nothing is changed.
post #1855 of 2235
Quote:
Originally Posted by Walternate View Post

The Acer H9500DB has lens shift.

There is kind of a dearth of information out there about this unit. Projector Central doesn't have a review. I did find the following:

http://www.avforums.com/forums/proje...ens-shift.html

I'd like to find out just how robust the lens shift is and see if it will work for me. From what I can tell, it looks like a nice projector. Some said better than the Panny AE7000 (which frankly surprised me). Anyone out there have one of these? Any calibration settings suggested (this appears to be important on this unit). I'm still poking around.
post #1856 of 2235
Quote:
Originally Posted by skyfiction View Post

This is the setting I try tonight:

4) BDP (HDMI Auto)-> 3D Displayer->AVR (checked the input color space change to X.V.1080p)->Plasma = PINK

why it changed to be X.V.1080p? when didn't connect 3D Displayer was RGB 4:4:4, 8bit. and same connection do in PS3 there will not have any Color Space changing.

HDMI connections always negotiate to the highest color depth and resolution that both the source (the BDP) and the display (in this case, the Displayer) support if both are set to Auto. It's likely that the EDID in the Displayer is telling the BDP that it can accept XV color. The BDP can send it, and it does. But it appears that your plasma has problems with it. Turn off XV Color on the BDP.
post #1857 of 2235
Quote:
Originally Posted by pb_maxxx View Post

...i sure hope that a 1080p at 72hz 3d experience with a 3dnow converter is a considerably more enjoyable experience.

72Hz will not help motion very much as you would still be converting 24Hz to 36Hz which most simply would be a 2:1 cadence and it would still be very jerky. Only multiples of 48Hz would provide smooth motion with a 24Hz 3D source.

For those that haven't see motion issues in 3D at 60Hz (with its 1:1:1:2 cadence causing it to pause every 4th frame), the menus for Alice in Wonderland are a very good test for seeing motion artifacts if you have that disc.
post #1858 of 2235
Quote:
Originally Posted by HokeySmoke View Post

72Hz will not help motion very much as you would still be converting 24Hz to 36Hz which most simply would be a 2:1 cadence and it would still be very jerky. Only multiples of 48Hz would provide smooth motion with a 24Hz 3D source.

For those that haven't see motion issues in 3D at 60Hz (with its 1:1:1:2 cadence causing it to pause every 4th frame), the menus for Alice in Wonderland are a very good test for seeing motion artifacts if you have that disc.

And, as I've said before, it would be nice to know which displays have been tested at/can handle which frequencies.
post #1859 of 2235
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolls-Royce View Post

HDMI connections always negotiate to the highest color depth and resolution that both the source (the BDP) and the display (in this case, the Displayer) support if both are set to Auto. It's likely that the EDID in the Displayer is telling the BDP that it can accept XV color. The BDP can send it, and it does. But it appears that your plasma has problems with it. Turn off XV Color on the BDP.

but why it didn't the same problem in PS3?
and if BDP cannot stop the output of x.v.1080p (actually I don't know where can I stop it.)

and also are there any solutions can let the Displayer placed after the AVR ?
post #1860 of 2235
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolls-Royce View Post

HDMI connections always negotiate to the highest color depth and resolution that both the source (the BDP) and the display (in this case, the Displayer) support if both are set to Auto. It's likely that the EDID in the Displayer is telling the BDP that it can accept XV color. The BDP can send it, and it does. But it appears that your plasma has problems with it. Turn off XV Color on the BDP.

can I turn off the XV color support on Displayer??
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