3D Theatre - VIP Product Thread - Page 63

you might check in with the vendor...it seems that many around here have had very good luck getting decently quick responses from them. and they'd be the people with the most info about how to help with your specific issue.

or maybe you've already tried that...

buck

There is no option to do that. You will have to do that upstream of the Displayer at the source.

"A mechanism for signaling xvYCC support and transmitting the gamut boundary definition for xvYCC has been defined in the HDMI 1.3 Specification. No new mechanism is required for transmitting the xvYCC data itself, as it is compatible with HDMI's existing YCbCr formats, but the display needs to signal its readiness to accept the extra-gamut xvYCC values, and the source needs to signal the actual gamut in use to help the display to intelligently adapt extreme colors to its own gamut limitations.

This should not be confused with HDMI 1.3's other new color feature, Deep Color. This is a separate feature that increases the precision of brightness and color information, and is independent of xvYCC.

xvYCC is not supported by DVD-Video or Blu-ray, but is supported by the high-definition recording format AVCHD and PlayStation 3."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XvYCC

It can be placed after the AVR as long as the AVR is HDMI 1.4 compliant, otherwise the 3D signal from a BluRay player will not pass through. There were a few folks in some of the forum threads that said their HDMI 1.3 AVRs did pass 3D but they were a rarity.

I haven't concentrate on all the combinations you have attempted but on first glance it sounds like either the AVR has a video option conversion set or the BluRay player might be forcing Deep Color.

Try posting a full model number of the AVR and BD player and maybe someone will have time to review it and give some suggestions.

When you ran the PS3 AutoDetect routine without the AVR in place does it report different video options that differ from what it see's with the AVR installed?

All the Displayer is basically telling the 3D source player over HDMI that I am connected to a 3D display even though it isn't. After that it creates it's own 3D video signal from the signal provided and that includes the color information from the source.

Also check your video display's video options to see what "video enhancements" are enabled and disable one by one to see if any of those are a cause of the issue. Things like "noise reduction" can cause framing problems with a 3D signal just to point out one single option that can give trouble.

Stick with one display setup at a time and work through it until you make a discovery or failure, then move to the next. If it works in basic hookup 3D-BD>>Displayer>>TV then add AVR and if you find pink then go through the process of enble/disable video options first at the AVR.

Also when getting a color distorton just barely move or wiggle the HDMI cable at each connection point and watch if it becomes intermittent or not.

In general practice most 3D capable displays grey-out a lot of those options when a 3D signal is present because of problems that are caused by them.

Anyway, just some ideas to consider in case you already haven't.

I don't have a PS3, but I'm guessing that yours may not be capable of outputting XV Color or has it turned off somehow. What BDP do you have?

It appears your plasma only works with RGB color or its auto switching is broken or not enabled. In other words set to RGB only.

The ps3 will only work with RGB on games and in the video settings you can select XV color for movies. Turn that off and the ps3 will only output RGB. Your BD player should also have a setting to output only RGB.

All your problems are player setting issues. The VIP decoder is working fine. Your TV should auto change color settings. It sounds like you my have that disabled on the TV.

Ron

Y'know, I decided to do just that (Acer H9500BD). The information I got from 3D now was that it was going to cost about $800 for the box and starter pack. I figured, what the hell, I'll kick in an extra $900, maybe sell my current projector, and call it a day.

I looked at a LOT of projectors and, all things considered, the Acer looked the best to me. It appears it will have enough lens shift to work for me. I think I might have gone with the VIP/3DNow unit, but I really wanted more feedback with regard to which projectors would work at which speed, what kind of resolution I could expect, and picture quality.

Hopefully for a few extra bucks, the picture quality will be much improved.

Great! Let me know how it works out. I like my Acer H5360 but if something happens to it I will be looking for a new 3D projector. I hope it continues working well and the VIP 3D Theater works great too.

Ron

so I need to close the Deep Color mode on both BDP and AVR ?
AVR = Denon 2311 which is support 1.4 and 3D.

how about add a Convertor between BDP and Displayer to ensure the signal is RGB, will this can solve my problem?

x.v.Color and Deep Color are two completely different things. x.v.Color is an extension to the REC709 defined color space to allow more saturated colors. Deep Color is simply more bits.

Any box that is an HDMI repeater should detect the downstream capabilities and transfer them to its own EDID to allow upstream devices to send the proper format. If the EDID in the display is correct, this could easily be a problem with one of the in-between devices, including perhaps the VIP box.

The VIP boxes have no HDMI logo. In fact they don't say HDMI on them anywhere. This could indicate that they do not comply with the HDMI specification, especially regarding repeaters.

My Theatre unit works fine with RGB and x.v.Color to my JVC projector and my Acer 3D projector so its not the VIP converter.

Both projectors set to auto color too!

Rather than continuing to discuss theories, I decided to check it out.

I have a VIP 3D Displayer and an EDID analyzer and can check if it is operating correctly regarding color space. I used a display that is not compatible with x.v.Color. When connected directly to a source the EDID reports that it does not support x.v.Color. When connected through the 3D Displayer the EDID reports that it does support x.v.Color. Therefore the 3D Displayer in this case is incorrectly reporting the color space requirements of the display. Perhaps the 3D Theater is different, but I doubt it.

That is strange! My Acer H5360 correctly changes when my PS3 changes between RGB in games and x.v.color in movies. I have the PS3 setup to use x.v.color with bluray movies. The Acer turns off color saturation and tint in RGB mode. That's how I can tell. I can also force modes with my DVDO duo and the projector changes modes just fine. What could be happening is the VIP converters just pass through whatever it is given.

Ron

What you're experiencing makes complete sense. The HDMI stream contains all of the required information for downstream displays to decode it (including color space information), regardless of what's in the EDID. The EDID is only there to prevent the source from sending signals that the display does not understand. So the problems only occur if the display cannot handle a specific type of stream. This usually only happens if the source cannot figure out what the display is capable of (or it disobeys what's in the EDID).

Regarding x.v.Color and Blu-rays, no Blu-ray contains x.v.Color information. Only AVCHD discs made from other sources (such as camcorders) have x.v.Color encoding. Playing a Blu-ray should not turn on x.v.Color in the PS3 (at least that's what the documentation says). All Blu-rays are encoded with REC709 or REC601 color space.

http://manuals.playstation.net/docum...uperwhite.html

Actually I think I am confusing YPb/CbPr/Cr with X.V.Color. I have to look at the setting to remember but when i turn it off I get RGB with Bluray movies and I don't want that with my Acer. I cant adjust saturation when in RGB.

The Displayer and Theater utilize "static" EDID information within, the upcoming models will have dynamic EDID.

So as you have previously discussed it is best to remove current 3DVIP processors when you are trying to confirm correct EDID information in the remaining devices.

Monitor Asset Manager is a good tool for those wanting to look at such information.

http://www.rarst.net/software/moninfo/

Even if it uses a static EDID, it would be a simple change to remove xvYCC support. Since the Displayer is only supposed to be useful with 3D Blu-ray sources, this change won't matter as no 3D Blu-ray has xvYCC.

so I think my display also does not support x.v.Color, so what I can do to stop the VIP3D Displayer to change the Color Space?

am I need sent it back to Kal?? (SgtVideo can you please advise).

Thanks.

If the PS3 works there is no need to send in to Kal at this stage. He is going to ask you if you tried to resolve this through 3DVIP Support.

Do you have a standard 3D BluRay movie to keep all this testing using one source as a reference? 3D content downloaded from the internet can have it's own issues since some may not follow any particular standard.

Also we asked your earlier to post your model#s, it is difficult to help someone without a manual for reference to determine where there might be a setting your are using that needs to be changed.

I don't keep up with the 3D games to know whether they have issues of their own, so you would need to do a proper search for that particular game. I know in the past I've seen commentary from users while looking for other information with 3D game issues.

If you decide to contact VIP support, don't overwhelm them with a multitude of display combinations in one email. Work with one display at a time, otherwise their support person has to try to organize answers for too many devices in one email.

Here is one of their support email addresses:

support2@3d-vip.com

There may be some delay in their response since they are in the middle of transition with 3DNow and I don't know if 3DNow will be rearranging the support setup there.

Not exactly, as it passes through 2D and their settings for regular viewing, it's not a pure 3D only device.

The VIP converters don't convert color at all. No processing for that so even if they did fix it so x.v.Color would not pass you would get no image at all. You need to turn off x.v.Color at the source.

That's the whole point of having a properly functioning EDID. There is no requirement that sources have manual controls to enable or disable all of their features. There is, however, a requirement that the source obey the downstream EDID. This is why we have standards. It is unfortunate that VIP has chosen to ignore them in this case.

I understand that, but the whole claim to fame is that it will work with any TV that has an HDMI connector on it. How many TVs have x.v.Color support? How many people care about x.v.Color support? All TVs that have x.v.Color are also compatible with REC709 and REC601. Why not choose the lowest common denominator in favor of compatibility?

I agree but I think he is thinking it will fix his problem and he will get the correct colors. Instead it will just not display anything. Unless maybe the source would see its not capable of x.v.color and just default to standard color. I am not sure if my projectors will work with x.v.color. I have a ps3 and never see weird colors.

I honestly don't believe this particular issue stems from what VIP has chosen to do or not to do. Reviewing skyfiction's posts, it appears, as Ronomy has stated, that settings are the root of his problems. He simply does not seem to have a good understanding of what menu items are available in his components or how to use them. He may also be hobbled by a display that doesn't correctly adapt itself to the signals coming in. Whether this is due to display shortcomings or something incorrectly set in its menus is unclear since we don't know what display it is.

One big positive for me is the 3D Theatre unit auto selects the correct 3D format. I have Directv and it works perfectly changing between the different formats. Along with the rf glasses and the 3D image is perfect. I don't see any ghosting or color shifting when I turn my head. Very nice image!

With this thread up to 1885 and the Displayer threads at a decent count, by and large most have been succesful and satisfied after overcoming various hurdles. Some were not patient enough and others like myself had it working on multiple displays.

The Theater product is barely a year old and the early adopters worked through the issues with 3DVIP; restoring multi-channel audio was one of the first issues and quickly resolved. Next came the RF glasses charge issue, not 3DVIP's fault, Bit Cauldron made the determination of a bad lot with the incorrect charge resistor. With input from the participants in these threads it was addressed and responded to.

Chezbrgr the originator of this thread was instrumental in convincing me of the viability of 3D at home. Many others have contributed their skill and helped each other in these threads. I read them all before ordering last April.

I'll say it one more time in here, if you need help resolving an issue post make/model#s of the devices you are interfacing with the 3D proccessors. Ideally a link to related manuals helps a bunch as well.

With the advent of 3D media players like the iconbit and Himedia I now have everything the theater offers in the displayer. Play iso's,sbs,o/u using rf glasses without changing converters. Can run either 60 or 120 hz depending on my display. very happy with my setup now. Had a little trouble with my 3D receiver pass through and had to bypass for now until I can experiment a little more.

Also one thing that is nice is the players give me eye flip without having to restart.

Is there a link to the emitter firmware that allows easier eye flip with the joystick? Does it work better? I am still on the original firmware that came with the VIP package and the joy stick is useless for changing polarity. Other than that the default settings work great with my Acer.

the firmware I'm talking about is in the 3D media players for eye flip. Until the latest came along I had to stop and restart the player to get the right polarity sometimes which was a pain. A lot of people are complaining about streaming which I'm not doing but playing from local hard drives which except for my receiver seems to work good so far. I agree trying to change polarity with the dongle for the glasses is not easy.