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Which is best wireless router choice? Netgear N450 WNDR4000 or N300 WNDR3800 - Page 3

post #61 of 416
There are one or two features on the WNDR3800 which I would really love to have, but I have to buy a router this weekend. From the looks/specs it sounds like the WNDR3800 is similar to the WNDR3700v2 but with additional firmware features. I wonder whether there's any chance Netgear will make an upgrade available to the 3700v2 to add some of the 3800's features (possibly for a price).
post #62 of 416
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobsilver View Post
The Time Machine software is built into the Netgear WNDR3800 (which will be available in June) and not in the 4000. So I would suggest you wait for the 3800 to become available. Then you will able to plug in your usb Time Machine drive and then backup any Mac on your network to that drive.

Bob Silver
Netgear AV Consultant
Bob, can you elaborate on "Time Machine Software Built In"

We are discussing your comments on the Apple forums and this caused some confusion. One poster commented,

"the comment in post #56 indicating that Time Machine software is "built-in," is odd, since Apple's Time Machine software is built in to OSX. Perhaps they mean support for AFP file sharing. (It is, after all, advertising copy, not tech specs).

It also implies that a drive that's currently being backed-up directly can continue to be used when connected directly to the router, is not how Time Machine ordinarily works. Backups done over a network are stored differently, in a sparse bundle disk image, and you cannot switch from one to the other"
post #63 of 416
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by drugrep View Post

Bob, can you elaborate on "Time Machine Software Built In"

We are discussing your comments on the Apple forums and this caused some confusion. One poster commented,

"the comment in post #56 indicating that Time Machine software is "built-in," is odd, since Apple's Time Machine software is built in to OSX. Perhaps they mean support for AFP file sharing. (It is, after all, advertising copy, not tech specs).

It also implies that a drive that's currently being backed-up directly can continue to be used when connected directly to the router, is not how Time Machine ordinarily works. Backups done over a network are stored differently, in a sparse bundle disk image, and you cannot switch from one to the other"

Drugrep

Sorry for any confusion. What I mean is that the 3800 will be able with the addition of an external USB connected drive act as a Time Machine storage repository. You can not do this with a plain vanilla network drive. So again if you have Macs and want a network Time Machine solution the 3800 will provide that capability.

Hope that clears this up for you.

Bob Silver
post #64 of 416
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by andyraf View Post

There are one or two features on the WNDR3800 which I would really love to have, but I have to buy a router this weekend. From the looks/specs it sounds like the WNDR3800 is similar to the WNDR3700v2 but with additional firmware features. I wonder whether there's any chance Netgear will make an upgrade available to the 3700v2 to add some of the 3800's features (possibly for a price).

Andy,

There are several hardware differences between the 3700 and the 3800 like clear channel, network printer support and others that will not be upgradeable on the 3700. But there are several features that will ship on the 3800 that will be upgradable on the 3700. These include remote sharing, network genie and others (cant recall at the moment. will need to get back to you).

Here is my suggestion. I wouldn't hesitate to buy the 3700. It has already been price reduced relative to the 3800. Aside from the clear channel, time machine and printer sharing it will have much of the same characteristics as the 3800. It is a great router (I have been using mine for 2 years now) and you will not be disappointed. You can then always re-purpose the router later as an Access Point ( I do this as well. I have 2 3700's in my house which gives me complete coverage of the 2.4 and 5ghz bands). It will be a perfect mate to the 3800 in that respect.

Bob Silver
Netgear AV Consultant
post #65 of 416
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hartstoc View Post

Bob- Your statement of "early June" for the 3800 is the closest thing I've seen to an official release date. Do you have this info on good authority? Netgear just says "soon" on their site. I can't wait till June so I guess I'll have to buy a 3700, but I'll be banging my head against the wall if the 3800 then comes out a few days later!-

Unfortunately I dont have a better date for you then June. I can assure you that it wont be sooner then that. In fact I have not even seen a beta unit yet which I am supposed to get prior to launch. But the sales and marketing groups are all planning on June. And like any new product I suspect quanities will be limited in June too. So if you need a router today I would go ahead and buy a 3700. It is a fantastic product in it's own right. You will not be unhappy. Plus the price has been reduced in anticipation of the 3800.

Bob Silver
Netgear AV Consultant
post #66 of 416
Router is just half of the story. What happen to the other half? Not all wireless adapter works the same with any particular router and when bridge is the other half of the story, things are getting even worst.

Bridge is important these days as almost all HT components these days are net ready. Some, like Netgear's own NTV550 is not able drive simple USB adapter and one has to use bridge (the so call wireless adapter WNCE2100 is more of an one port bridge than dumb adapter).

So, instead of asking which router is better, Netgear should really present system solution with matching pairs to ensure performance. This is especially important to a picky device like the NTV550.
post #67 of 416
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PawPawDog View Post
Router is just half of the story. What happen to the other half? Not all wireless adapter works the same with any particular router and when bridge is the other half of the story, things are getting even worst.

Bridge is important these days as almost all HT components these days are net ready. Some, like Netgear's own NTV550 is not able drive simple USB adapter and one has to use bridge (the so call wireless adapter WNCE2100 is more of an one port bridge than dumb adapter).

So, instead of asking which router is better, Netgear should really present system solution with matching pairs to ensure performance. This is especially important to a picky device like the NTV550.
All good questions. Netgear is just beginning this level of dialog with users. That is why I am here. Working with Netgear and users to bridge the gap.

Now on to your Neo550 comment. Well one in the same I had initially. The fact is the Neo550 has a high percentage of users who use it for Bluray streaming (me included). And that just wont satisfy over wireless. In fact the only wireless solution that works is the WDNT3004 3DHD kit that costs more then the 550. So it was decided to not include wireless and add cost when it doesn't satisfy the entirety of the product (read bluray rips).

But again I appreciate your comments about what Netgear should do here as I am the one who is leading the AVS and other User forums communication.

Thanks again for the feedback.

Bob Silver
Netgear AV Consultant
post #68 of 416
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobsilver View Post

Now on to your Neo550 comment. Well one in the same I had initially. The fact is the Neo550 has a high percentage of users who use it for Bluray streaming (me included). And that just wont satisfy over wireless. In fact the only wireless solution that works is the WDNT3004 3DHD kit that costs more then the 550. So it was decided to not include wireless and add cost when it doesn't satisfy the entirety of the product (read bluray rips).
Actully, I don't meant "total solution" is to add wireless function into the device like NTV550 but rather Netgear should have bridge/adapter products that match well with the router. Adding a lousy wireless components to every device is a waste but wired connection is not practical to a lot of people including me.

Take my setup for example, I have a TV, NTV500 and blu-ray player all need network connection. Adding wireless to all three is not only wasting of money also reduces overall performance as three different sigles and connections instead of one to the wireless router. A multi port brdige is a better solution but which one works and which one does not?

After tried out three different routers, three bridges and a powerline product, I finally got the Netgear WNDR3700 and WNHDE111 (old product, has its own issues but in general works) using 5GHZ band to work to the point the NTV550 is able to streaming BD most of the time (80mbs vs 85mbs direct wired connection). But why do I need to go through all these trouble? While WNHDE111 works well with WNDR3700, the WNDA3100 adapter I used to connect a HTPC does not work that good.

So this is what I meant. Instead of just trying to sell WNDR3800 or 4000 or whatever router, I really need Netgear to tell me what bridge/adapter works well with each of them.
post #69 of 416
Bob Silver, when will the DGND3700 be released & what advantages will the WNDR4000 & the WNDR3800 have over the DGND3700? thanks
post #70 of 416
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PawPawDog View Post

Actully, I don't meant "total solution" is to add wireless function into the device like NTV550 but rather Netgear should have bridge/adapter products that match well with the router. Adding a lousy wireless components to every device is a waste but wired connection is not practical to a lot of people including me.

Take my setup for example, I have a TV, NTV500 and blu-ray player all need network connection. Adding wireless to all three is not only wasting of money also reduces overall performance as three different sigles and connections instead of one to the wireless router. A multi port brdige is a better solution but which one works and which one does not?

After tried out three different routers, three bridges and a powerline product, I finally got the Netgear WNDR3700 and WNHDE111 (old product, has its own issues but in general works) using 5GHZ band to work to the point the NTV550 is able to streaming BD most of the time (80mbs vs 85mbs direct wired connection). But why do I need to go through all these trouble? While WNHDE111 works well with WNDR3700, the WNDA3100 adapter I used to connect a HTPC does not work that good.

So this is what I meant. Instead of just trying to sell WNDR3800 or 4000 or whatever router, I really need Netgear to tell me what bridge/adapter works well with each of them.

Pawdog,

Your points here are all well taken. From my perspective what the process that occurs is that each of the products are built on their own timetable based on chip availability and current technical specs. So my point here is that sometimes there is a mismatch of products when they arrive in the marketplace.

But to your broader issue what adapters work best with a particular router (at least as shipping today) is a very good point. Unfortunately to date these products are usually brought to market as standalone point products. And when group is often based on price points.

But what you are asking for really is a great thing to ask. And I will be forwarding your comments to the responsible product manager to try and get some help doing this for the future products.

Netgear realizes that specs alone wont make the difference in market acceptance. And developing a guide like you are asking can make a big difference.

Thanks for taking the time to write the comment.

Bob Silver
Netgear AV Consultant
post #71 of 416
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by img eL View Post

Bob Silver, when will the DGND3700 be released & what advantages will the WNDR4000 & the WNDR3800 have over the DGND3700? thanks


I am not familiar with this product and have forwarded your question to NG product management. Ill post back when I get the answer to your question.

Bob Silver
Netgear AV Consultant.
post #72 of 416
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobsilver View Post

I am not familiar with this product and have forwarded your question to NG product management. Ill post back when I get the answer to your question.

Bob Silver
Netgear AV Consultant.

Thanks, I'm trying to find out if I should go with a combined modem & router like the DGND3700 or go with a WNDR4000, WNDR3800 which are just routers
post #73 of 416
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by img eL View Post

Thanks, I'm trying to find out if I should go with a combined modem & router like the DGND3700 or go with a WNDR4000, WNDR3800 which are just routers

Ah thanks for the clarification. In my opinion I would stay with a separate modem and router. My reasons are these. Modems while stable do fail (mine did). When this happens it is much easier to swap out just a modem then your entire network backbone. Also routers change with enhanced features, performance and technology. If you see a router you want (like the 3800 or 4000) they may not be available with a modem combined and therefore lock you out of these products. So in my view I believe keeping these two items separate has many more benefits then disadvantages.

And to be clear. The benefit of a combined router is compactness and potentially (although usually not the case) easier setup.. The downsides though are your ISP may not support their non branded modem so that will actually increase complexity for you.

Others may differ but that is my personal opinion. Stick with separate components and choose the best router based on your needs and not what is only available to your ISP's compatibility.

Bob Silver
Netgear AV Consultant
post #74 of 416
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by img eL View Post

Bob Silver, when will the DGND3700 be released & what advantages will the WNDR4000 & the WNDR3800 have over the DGND3700? thanks

OK heard back from the Netgear Product guys. DGND3700 will be available next month. Initially in Frys and then through out the channels. This router is built on the 3700 platform with a couple exceptions.

DGND3700 offers:
- Highest Integration: ADSL2+ Modem+ Simultaneous Dual Band Wireless (2x2 2.4 & 5GHz)+ Readyshare Storage with two USB ports (3700 only has 1 USB port) + four Gigabit LAN ports
- Best Performance: Dual Core Processor to handle the most demanding applications
- Future-proof: Option to upgrade from ADSL to next generation high speed networks through the alternate Gbit WAN port to connect to Cable/Fiber Modem
- With Intelligent QOS, DLNA ready, Live Parental controls, Guest Wireless, Broadband Usage Meter


But at the end of the day here is what matters most I believe.

The QoS works better since the WAN modem is built-in so packets get prioritzed to the ISP not just the WLAN .


So it would appear there are advantages for 3700 buyers looking for a combined solution to seriously look at the DGND3700. Given what I learned here I will be giving one a try myself!

Bob Silver
post #75 of 416
My old Linksys WRT54GL is on the fritz and I've been thinking about giving Netgear a shot. I searched all over the internet to find info on these models and sure enough I ended up back here. So now I'm trying to figure out if my linksys will hold out until June so I can go with the 3800. The Readyshare printer feature does sound like a winner as I've never been successful in printing from my pc to a printer connected to a different computer on my network. Just curious, would all 3 of these models (3700, 3800 and 4000) have approximately the same range?
post #76 of 416
Awesome thread! Thanks for starting this. Bob, maybe its been mentioned already, but do you have a release date and MSRP for the 3800?
Thanks
Mike
post #77 of 416
Quote:
Originally Posted by broadwayblue View Post

...I've never been successful in printing from my pc to a printer connected to a different computer on my network...

This normally works well - did you install all the required printer software on your pc?
post #78 of 416
Glad to have stumbled onto this thread. Bob, I was wondering, has the TiVo support been dropped from the WNDR3800? In looking at this page and on the spec sheet I see it is no longer listed anywhere:

http://www.netgear.com/home/products.../wndr3800.aspx

Thanks,
Colin
post #79 of 416
Quote:
Originally Posted by fcwilt View Post

This normally works well - did you install all the required printer software on your pc?

Honestly I can't remember. I just know that it shows up in my list of printers but I always get an error when I try to print to it, even though the other pc is on. I'll try uninstalling/reinstalling it and see what happens. If it works I guess there's no need to wait for the 3800 and can probably just pull the trigger on the 3700 now unless the performance of the 4000 will be noticeably better.

Can anyone confirm whether the range will be identical on all 3 models?
post #80 of 416
I'm debating between the 3800 and 4000 as I am sure a lot of people are. My question is, if my printer (epson 810) has wireless and Ethernet capabilities is the 3800's print server function really that important and therefore be better off with the 4000 for potential added speed?
post #81 of 416
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eldiablos View Post

...if my printer (epson 810) has wireless and Ethernet capabilities is the 3800's print server function really that important

Nope. The print server allows folks with non-networked printers to put them on the network. Your printer is already a network printer.

If you didn't have a network printer, like yours, you would have to be sure that the print server supported the printer you had. It's one thing to be able to do basic printing but its quite another to support all of the printers features.
post #82 of 416
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eldiablos View Post

I'm debating between the 3800 and 4000 as I am sure a lot of people are

While you didn't ask this let me toss in my 2 cents here.

While it may be convenient to have a "all-in-one" type device, I always suggest folks consider using separate router/firewalls, switches and wireless access points.

You can then select the device for each category that best suits your needs and has the desired performance. You can also place devices as needed.

For example, my router/firewall is in the far corner of my basement, where all the rest of the home electronics is situated. This is NOT an ideal location for a wireless access point. In fact, to get decent coverage throughout my home I found it necessary to place 4 access points. If my router/firewall was of the "wireless" variety its wireless feature would have gone to waste due to its poor location.

As I said just my 2 cents.
post #83 of 416
Thank you both for the feedback. The decision was a lot harder before I got my epson. I was using an old HP882c. My main buying criteria is gigabit lan capabilities (all CAT 6 cabling currently) and solid wireless (girlfriend wants to be able to watch her internet tv/movies from anywhere in the house). Is the clear channel technology something I would miss with the 3800?
I personally want to keep as many devices hardwired as possible. I have...
- receiver (lan)
- blu-ray (wifi or lan)
- x-box 360 (lan)
- printer (wifi or lan)
- pc (lan)

I have a netgear gigabit switch and wondering if I could integrate that with the 4000 to keep everything but my girlfriend's laptop hardwired? Any suggestions what things I should connect to the switch?
post #84 of 416
Quote:
Originally Posted by twan69666 View Post

Asus RT-N56U is my choice

hey twan, do you have any recommendation for good usb wireless adapter(s) to use with this router?

Thanks and that router does look pretty decent, ive checked out some reviews for it and I think I will get one of those!
post #85 of 416
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by abeagler View Post

Glad to have stumbled onto this thread. Bob, I was wondering, has the TiVo support been dropped from the WNDR3800? In looking at this page and on the spec sheet I see it is no longer listed anywhere:

http://www.netgear.com/home/products.../wndr3800.aspx

Thanks,
Colin

To my knowledge it has not been dropped. I will confirm and report back.

Bob Silver
Netgear
post #86 of 416
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmikester1 View Post

Awesome thread! Thanks for starting this. Bob, maybe its been mentioned already, but do you have a release date and MSRP for the 3800?
Thanks
Mike

The msrp for the 3800 will be $179. The same as the 3700 before it. I haven't gotten firm shipping date yet. Still being told June. The question will be how many units are coming in. I would suspect a good number because anticipation is high for this router.

Bob Silver
Netgear
post #87 of 416
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by broadwayblue View Post


Honestly I can't remember. I just know that it shows up in my list of printers but I always get an error when I try to print to it, even though the other pc is on. I'll try uninstalling/reinstalling it and see what happens. If it works I guess there's no need to wait for the 3800 and can probably just pull the trigger on the 3700 now unless the performance of the 4000 will be noticeably better.

Can anyone confirm whether the range will be identical on all 3 models?

The range will be similar on all 3 models. The primary difference in wireless will be the that the 4000 will have the fastest wireless speeds if you gave a compatible client and the 3800 should work best in overall throughput due to the clear channel technology.

Bob Silver
Netgear
post #88 of 416
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eldiablos View Post

I'm debating between the 3800 and 4000 as I am sure a lot of people are. My question is, if my printer (epson 810) has wireless and Ethernet capabilities is the 3800's print server function really that important and therefore be better off with the 4000 for potential added speed?

Well again the 4000 increased speed requires a compatible N450 client. If you are using a laptop and plan to update that in the near term and laptop data speed is important then the 4000 would be the way to go.

But first I would determine if your printer sharing today is working for you. The 3800 printer sharing is designed for USB based printers. If you are good ( which seems like you are) then this feature would not be as valuable to you. Then i would based my decision this way.

Best value wndr 3700
Latest wifi technology for data speed. Wndr4000
Best noise rejection and consistent performance ( due to clear channel tech) then the Wndr3800

Bob Silver
Netgear
post #89 of 416
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eldiablos View Post

Thank you both for the feedback. The decision was a lot harder before I got my epson. I was using an old HP882c. My main buying criteria is gigabit lan capabilities (all CAT 6 cabling currently) and solid wireless (girlfriend wants to be able to watch her internet tv/movies from anywhere in the house). Is the clear channel technology something I would miss with the 3800?
I personally want to keep as many devices hardwired as possible. I have...
- receiver (lan)
- blu-ray (wifi or lan)
- x-box 360 (lan)
- printer (wifi or lan)
- pc (lan)

I have a netgear gigabit switch and wondering if I could integrate that with the 4000 to keep everything but my girlfriend's laptop hardwired? Any suggestions what things I should connect to the switch?

Well as a rule connect as much as you can via Ethernet. Always your best bet. And yes you can use your gig switch with a 4000 and extend the gigabit part of your network. It also really doesn't matter what connects to the router or switch.

Bob Silver
Netgear
post #90 of 416
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by andyraf View Post

There are one or two features on the WNDR3800 which I would really love to have, but I have to buy a router this weekend. From the looks/specs it sounds like the WNDR3800 is similar to the WNDR3700v2 but with additional firmware features. I wonder whether there's any chance Netgear will make an upgrade available to the 3700v2 to add some of the 3800's features (possibly for a price).

I confirmed that this will not happen. The 3800 features will not make it to the 3700.

Bob Silver
Netgear
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