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The Timelapse Theatre - Planning n' Build Log - Page 9

post #241 of 1281
Thread Starter 
Here's a little more thinking out loud. I ran some throw-distance calculations for the Panasonic PT-AE7000 and it looks like I'll be in the middle of my zoom range at 15' from the screen. The screen dimensions will be ~120x51" (2.35:1 Seymour). The 16x9 image should be ~91" wide.
post #242 of 1281
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdanforth View Post

Here's a little more thinking out loud. I ran some throw-distance calculations for the Panasonic PT-AE7000 and it looks like I'll be in the middle of my zoom range at 15' from the screen. The screen dimensions will be ~120x51" (2.35:1 Seymour). The 16x9 image should be ~91" wide.


I know with most projectors that zoom can and usually does have an effect on brightness levels. With you being in the middle you should be all set and should not adversely effect your brightness.

I know that I had personally thought I would go with around a 106-112" image in my room. Now that the pj is here and I have done some tests the urge to go bigger is working on me, but you have to balance that out with zoom (I'm in the middle of my zoom range too) with decreased brightness over time and lighting conditions as well) I am glad I have waited to finalize my screen size until the pj came so I could do some testing. I'm still not sure yet and I'm still tinkering. I do have one advantage as I am going DIY painted screen so I could change pretty easily.

Regards,

RTROSE
post #243 of 1281
Quote:
Originally Posted by RTROSE View Post

If you run conduit to the PJ location you need not worry about anything as you can always run more or less and replace cables as needed.
RTROSE

I would say if you have everything open and conduit is easy to run, then go for it. But we are definitely at the final frontier of cable connections, with most of the "future" cables essentially a way to transmit HD protected content over a standard networking wire, called HDBaseT: http://www.pcworld.com/article/20030...et_cables.html Having three Cat-6 wires (or Cat-5e) would most certainly provide the needed duplication should one of the wires fail. At some point signal, data, control and PoE (if needed) will all probably under one standard networking wire. I can't wait for the day when all equipment "plays nice" with one another and is easily and reliably controlled....

So barring any physical failure of your HDMI 1.4 cable, however improbable, you will actually be using LESS of the wiring bundle I had recommended sending to the projector, essentially mothballing all of the other wires.

One other point I failed to raise before - keep the 14/2 as far away from the signal wire as possible - one foot away at a minimum if would be ideal - and if you do have to place the wires close, make sure to make the intersection of power and signal wires as perpendicular as possible.
post #244 of 1281
Thread Starter 
Oh hey, I was on a podcast called "DIY". I'm talking about Maker Faire, automation systems, cool kits, etc. It's a fun show all about Doing Stuff yourself! There's a big slant towards audio/video DIY. http://www.avnation.tv/diy-ep-1-the-fourth-dimension
post #245 of 1281
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RTROSE View Post

I know with most projectors that zoom can and usually does have an effect on brightness levels. With you being in the middle you should be all set and should not adversely effect your brightness.

I know that I had personally thought I would go with around a 106-112" image in my room. Now that the pj is here and I have done some tests the urge to go bigger is working on me, but you have to balance that out with zoom (I'm in the middle of my zoom range too) with decreased brightness over time and lighting conditions as well) I am glad I have waited to finalize my screen size until the pj came so I could do some testing. I'm still not sure yet and I'm still tinkering. I do have one advantage as I am going DIY painted screen so I could change pretty easily.

I've done the tape on the wall maneuver and shot an image with a borrowed projector. I think that 120" wide is a good size for the room.
post #246 of 1281
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMcG View Post

I would say if you have everything open and conduit is easy to run, then go for it. But we are definitely at the final frontier of cable connections, with most of the "future" cables essentially a way to transmit HD protected content over a standard networking wire, called HDBaseT: http://www.pcworld.com/article/20030...et_cables.html Having three Cat-6 wires (or Cat-5e) would most certainly provide the needed duplication should one of the wires fail. At some point signal, data, control and PoE (if needed) will all probably under one standard networking wire. I can't wait for the day when all equipment "plays nice" with one another and is easily and reliably controlled....

So barring any physical failure of your HDMI 1.4 cable, however improbable, you will actually be using LESS of the wiring bundle I had recommended sending to the projector, essentially mothballing all of the other wires.

One other point I failed to raise before - keep the 14/2 as far away from the signal wire as possible - one foot away at a minimum if would be ideal - and if you do have to place the wires close, make sure to make the intersection of power and signal wires as perpendicular as possible.

It looks like I won't be able to install any conduit to the projector after all. I don't know what I was thinking when I was proposing it. It might have been possible but it's such an easy free-hand run that I'm not going to bother. When I fish the HDMI, CAT6, four-conductor (RS-232), and power I'll tie a few strings on so I can fish extras.

I'm aware of the necessity to separate the power from the low voltage. I will do that as best as I can. Thanks!
post #247 of 1281
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdanforth View Post

I've done the tape on the wall maneuver and shot an image with a borrowed projector. I think that 120" wide is a good size for the room.


Sound good to me. You will often get the "bigger is better" chant round these here parts, but sometimes, you might, just might, be better served by a slightly smaller screen size. I did not have the ability (or I did not think about it) to borrow a PJ so I had to wait for my baby to arrive before I could get a really good idea on what I wanted to do.

Oh, and BTW is it not time for another video? I'm thinking it is!

Regards,

RTROSE
post #248 of 1281
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RTROSE View Post


Sound good to me. You will often get the "bigger is better" chant round these here parts, but sometimes, you might, just might, be better served by a slightly smaller screen size. I did not have the ability (or I did not think about it) to borrow a PJ so I had to wait for my baby to arrive before I could get a really good idea on what I wanted to do.

Yeah but now that you have that projector your work is going to stop!

Quote:
Originally Posted by RTROSE View Post

Oh, and BTW is it not time for another video? I'm thinking it is!

Slow down, friend! First I have to actually accomplish some work and then I have to edit the video! I'm working on painting this week so maybe I'll have something for show n' tell in a few weeks.
post #249 of 1281
Quote:
Originally Posted by RTROSE View Post


Sound good to me. You will often get the "bigger is better" chant round these here parts, but sometimes, you might, just might, be better served by a slightly smaller screen size. I did not have the ability (or I did not think about it) to borrow a PJ so I had to wait for my baby to arrive before I could get a really good idea on what I wanted to do.

Oh, and BTW is it not time for another video? I'm thinking it is!

Regards,

RTROSE

Wise words, you must divide the availale brightness to fill whatever screen you choose.

It IS a trade off as the image gets bigger your resources are spread to cover the canvas.

often said bigger is better, but not %100 true always.
post #250 of 1281
Quote:
Originally Posted by RTROSE View Post

Oh, and BTW is it not time for another video? I'm thinking it is!

Regards,

RTROSE

@RTROSE - Here's a video from youtube on installing a home theater system that should tide you over in the meantime, well worth the 6:22 watch... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPA435yIuzQ

@jdanforth - Don't forget to wire for the "surrounding surround speakers" and the "various overkill to ensure deafness speakers" (see video link above)
post #251 of 1281
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMcG View Post

@RTROSE - Here's a video from youtube on installing a home theater system that should tide you over in the meantime, well worth the 6:22 watch... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPA435yIuzQ

@jdanforth - Don't forget to wire for the "surrounding surround speakers" and the "various overkill to ensure deafness speakers" (see video link above)

BAHAHAHAAHAH! I've never seen that one before.



I'm pretty happy with the notion of my 120" wide 2.35:1 screen. That's a 104" diagonal 16:9 image which seems really sweet. According to the projection calculator that indicates that the 120" picture will give me about 17FtL and 18FtL for the 16x9 image.

I understand that that's the absolutely ideal scenario but I still think that I'll be in good shape. What do you guys think?
post #252 of 1281
I can tell you my preference.

I struggled with screen size through the entire design phase. "Is this too big?" "Am I being ridiculous?" and on and on.

I recently got my RS45 and played around with the size. For me, I found that I have a thirst for the biggest image possible. I even blew it up on the wall to about 150" diagonal 16by9 and thought, "I WISH!" I had brightness to spare on that particular projector, but not the room height.

In the end, I'm glad I went with largest size I could put comfortably in my space: 11' wide 2.35 with 16:9 at about 115". Part of me wishes I would have bought a CIA screen, to maximize the 16:9 even more, but I think it would have detracted from the appeal of the beautiful 2.35 aspect screen. There's just something about that ratio!
post #253 of 1281
Thread Starter 
Damnit, people! Now you guys have got me second guessing my screen size!
post #254 of 1281
I would like to share with you and the AVS Forum a calculator to determine the proper home theater screen size:

1. Measure the width of your wall
2. Multiply this number by 1
3. Deduct 6 inches from this number to allow for a screen frame
4. Order the screen

LOL!
post #255 of 1281
Thread Starter 
Wow... the footage of me attempting to solder 5-pin DINs for Meridian Comms connections? RIVETING STUFF. Call the Academy, people!
post #256 of 1281
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdanforth View Post

Damnit, people! Now you guys have got me second guessing my screen size!


Muhhaaa, muhhhaaaaaa!!!!!!! Don't you just love us?

In the end you are the only one needing to be happy with the choice.

Regards,

RTROSE
post #257 of 1281
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMcG View Post

I would like to share with you and the AVS Forum a calculator to determine the proper home theater screen size:

1. Measure the width of your wall
2. Multiply this number by 1
3. Deduct 6 inches from this number to allow for a screen frame
4. Order the screen

LOL!

HAHA! Funny!


Remember, Jon... No progress without pics time lapse videos.


.
post #258 of 1281
Have you seen this photo? Looks familiar?

http://api.viglink.com/api/click?for...13238804122893
post #259 of 1281
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMcG View Post

I would like to share with you and the AVS Forum a calculator to determine the proper home theater screen size:

1. Measure the width of your wall
2. Multiply this number by 1
3. Deduct 6 inches from this number to allow for a screen frame
4. Order the screen

LOL!

Funny!

My formula was exactly this format, but like this:

1. Measure the width of your wall
2. Multiply this number by 1
3. Deduct 4 inches from this number to allow for a screen frame
4. Deduct 10" on each side so screen doesn't hide behind column
4. Order the screen

Ended up at 11' wide.
post #260 of 1281
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tony123 View Post

Have you seen this photo? Looks familiar?

http://api.viglink.com/api/click?for...13238804122893

Ooooh! That's nice looking stuff! I'll have to keep a closer eye on that thread!
post #261 of 1281
Thread Starter 
I'm planning to put OC703 and/or R30 fluffy in my soffits. I have been planning to wrap the soffits with fabric without adding any drywall or MDF or anything. I figured that would be easier than adding something solid.

I'm wondering if that will present any problems with the lights I've installed. Basically I was planning to paint the bottom of the lights black and then just wrap them with the OC703. I figured that would be safe since it's fire retardant fabric. Does that sound OK by you guys?

See this pic for reference. I'm planning to staple FR701 to the the top rail against the ceiling, pull it taught down and around the corner, and then staple it to the bottom rail against the wall. The I was going to cut out circles for the lights and use a little glue and the trim ring to hold the fabric in place.

post #262 of 1281
I like the concept, however, the backsides of all my cans spilled light. If yours are completely sealed, you might be okay. Otherwise, your soffits may glow!
post #263 of 1281
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tony123 View Post

I like the concept, however, the backsides of all my cans spilled light. If yours are completely sealed, you might be okay. Otherwise, your soffits may glow!

Damn! I didn't think of that! I'll have to test that out and see. That would be reason enough to install something solid.
post #264 of 1281
Thread Starter 
Here's another question. Would I gain much benefit by installing a layer of green glue between my MDF panels and the drywall? The ceiling will be unchanged so I doubt it would do much for isolation but would it give me any bass response benefit?
post #265 of 1281
I see a few problems. But first, a point of clarification from your comment - when you say OC703, I think 1" thick Owens Corning 703 semi-rigid fiberglass and not fire retardant fabric as in your post. So assuming you meant that you will be using 703 and/or R30 batts in your soffit and then fabric-wrap the entire assembly then here are a few things for your consideration. First, as the fabric is ultimately still porous, you will now be involving yourself in painting your soffit matte black which can be tedious and time consuming. Second, there is a potential for slight light bleed-through out of the cans, causing a back lit glow. Third, the way you have constructed your soffit provides no consistent outside corner along the bottom so you will never be able to get the fabric into a straight line without this corner structure. I suppose you could use drywall corner bead painted black and fastened to the outside corner of this soffit, but again that will be more work. Fourth, have you confirmed that your cans are IC (insulation contact) rated? If not, then you have to maintain a 3" minimum perimeter gap on all sides.

If you have a router, you could use a "V" shaped router bit to created a 45 degree angle on one side of the OC703. With this technique you can create a single interior 90 bend or two 45 degree miter cuts that will fit both soffit faces. You could then back wrap the vertical soffit piece, allow for the fabric to hang and then wrap the bottom piece (on the wall side of the piece) before final installation.

One final thought - wrapping the fabric to the interior of your can light hole cut out is unnecessary. I would simply use a spray adhesive for a minimum 3 or four inches beyond then cutout and the cut out the fabric with a sharp razor after the adhesive dries. The trim housing will hide the rest and there is really no risk of wrinkles or sagging over time with the adhesive. Don't forget to use the high-temp black paint if you aren't able to get the full black light trim kits!
post #266 of 1281
I think you can mitigate any light leakage with some metal duct tape. I can tell you that the bigger the piece of fabric, the harder it becomes to get it smooth and straight. I did some long wall sections and I found that my best friend was push pins to hold things in various positions otherwise it was always flopping in the way. I am not sure about cutting holes for the lights and how you are going to make that look good with out seeing how much of a lip you have on the light baffle to hide the edges
post #267 of 1281
On that bottom corner edge maybe you can install a drywall corner bead.
post #268 of 1281
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdanforth View Post

Here's another question. Would I gain much benefit by installing a layer of green glue between my MDF panels and the drywall? The ceiling will be unchanged so I doubt it would do much for isolation but would it give me any bass response benefit?

Every time I think about Green Glue I think about me pounding my fist on the area where I am considering putting it. I couldn't tell definitively from your blue print on the first page, but it appears two (or three) or your walls are exterior walls where I wouldn't bother with it. But I would definitely consider it for the common wall with your stairwell to try to reduce the vibration to the upstairs.

As for sound, I doubt you (or any high-precision instrument for that matter) would notice and difference in bass response with Green Glue behind the MDF. Just my $0.02.
post #269 of 1281
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMcG View Post

I see a few problems. But first, a point of clarification from your comment - when you say OC703, I think 1" thick Owens Corning 703 semi-rigid fiberglass and not fire retardant fabric as in your post. So assuming you meant that you will be using 703 and/or R30 batts in your soffit and then fabric-wrap the entire assembly then here are a few things for your consideration. First, as the fabric is ultimately still porous, you will now be involving yourself in painting your soffit matte black which can be tedious and time consuming. Second, there is a potential for slight light bleed-through out of the cans, causing a back lit glow. Third, the way you have constructed your soffit provides no consistent outside corner along the bottom so you will never be able to get the fabric into a straight line without this corner structure. I suppose you could use drywall corner bead painted black and fastened to the outside corner of this soffit, but again that will be more work. Fourth, have you confirmed that your cans are IC (insulation contact) rated? If not, then you have to maintain a 3" minimum perimeter gap on all sides.

If you have a router, you could use a "V" shaped router bit to created a 45 degree angle on one side of the OC703. With this technique you can create a single interior 90 bend or two 45 degree miter cuts that will fit both soffit faces. You could then back wrap the vertical soffit piece, allow for the fabric to hang and then wrap the bottom piece (on the wall side of the piece) before final installation.

One final thought - wrapping the fabric to the interior of your can light hole cut out is unnecessary. I would simply use a spray adhesive for a minimum 3 or four inches beyond then cutout and the cut out the fabric with a sharp razor after the adhesive dries. The trim housing will hide the rest and there is really no risk of wrinkles or sagging over time with the adhesive. Don't forget to use the high-temp black paint if you aren't able to get the full black light housings!

OOPS! I meant FR701 GOM fabric! Sorry! I guess my coffee hasn't kicked in yet!

I've already started painting the soffits black knowing that that would be an issue. The cans are not IC rated so I will be keeping all insulation a minimum of 3 inches away even though I'm installing LED fixtures. The bottom edge (against the wall) will be covered by the MDF panels so I'm not concerned about that aesthetic.

I'm actually going to stuff the interior of the soffits with OC703. The outside will be black-painted wood. Sorry for the confusion.

I was planning to do exactly what you said concerning the fabric cutout. Thanks!
post #270 of 1281
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post

I think you can mitigate any light leakage with some metal duct tape. I can tell you that the bigger the piece of fabric, the harder it becomes to get it smooth and straight. I did some long wall sections and I found that my best friend was push pins to hold things in various positions otherwise it was always flopping in the way. I am not sure about cutting holes for the lights and how you are going to make that look good with out seeing how much of a lip you have on the light baffle to hide the edges

Push pins are a good tip, thank you!

I was planning to glue the fabric to the can light's metal base and then cut out the hole with a razor knife after the fabric is installed.
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