SE WI Tower speaker GTG - Page 5

I got into tubes when I tried a tube DAC (my Music Hall). The sound was slightly distorted, but I got my first taste of what tubes can do: create a magical 3D sound stage and great separation with a more realistic tonality. I never sought out a "tube sound" and I don't like anything "warm" sounding. Nuance and I A/B'd his PS Audio DLIII DAC to my modified Music Hall, and they were very close. We both agreed each DAC had it's strengths and weaknesses, but they were very similar. What's funny is that I now run the solid state outputs of the Music Hall because the Burson opamps really made the solid state side sound sweet and I get a more articulate bass sound than from the tube output.

The Rogue Perseus does not sound like a tube pre. It has a very clear and transparent sound. I think it is responsible for a lot of the separation and large sound stage I get. Again, I don't believe it has a warm tube sound at all. I used to run a Parasound 2100 like the other guys. I think the only advantage the Rogue has is that it brought more layers out of the music. It's a fantastic preamp.

For me, the jump in overall sound quality came when I added the Odyssey monoblocks. They replaced a Parasound 2250 amp at the time. As soon as I fired up the Odyssey's, the sound improved drastically. I was always trying to fix a sort of harsh or distorted sounding upper midrange. The Odyssey's did it. They have a smooth, clear, full sound with improved detail. There are some tracks that you can just hear everything about the room the music was recorded in. If I'm listening just casually, I often find myself stopping to listen and thinking: "wow, that sounds amazing."

I guess I'll let the other guys make their own opinions about the sound. Nuance has heard my system many times, but he has not hear it with the Odyssey's. I'm wondering what he'll think of the sound.

Last time I heard TJHUB's room it was the best sounding system I've ever heard in someone's home environment. Period. If he says it got better with the monos, I believe it.

TJHUB and I hear very similarly, although he is more of the Jedi Master while I am the apprentice. He picks up on things very quickly, where it may take me longer to hear the same things. Regardless, Saturday April 30th will be a GREAT time, and it cannot come soon enough.

Geez...now I'm blushing.

Don't let Nuance kid you, his hearing ability is every bit like mine. We do have our preferences because our music preferences are different, but we often agree on what's good or bad. I'd put us more equal than anything. Heck, Nuance purchased his Salk's back when I thought my B&W 805S's sounded good! Who's the "Master" now?

Only a Sith, an apprentice has. A Jedi's student, the Padewan is. Much to learn, this young one has.

LOL! Sounds like the Ascends will have a chance to play to their abilities in that room.


Regarding the Odyssey amp, I wonder if their entry level stereo amp would make a noticeable improvement as an outboard amp for a mid level AV reciever driving Sierra-1 NrT's?

Ha ha!

I've read a lot of both good and bad things about Odyssey amps. As soon as I heard mine with my setup, I loved them. I wouldn't part with them for anything at this point. I'm sure there is "better", but I'd have to hear it in my room.

It is my STRONG opinion that no amp will fix all the drawbacks of any receiver. I wouldn't consider an external amp until you move to a dedicated preamp. The Parasound 2100 with is HT-bypass and analog bass management is VERY hard to beat. I think it has a very transparent sound signature worthy of almost any setup. Of course you also need a good analog source to make all of it work.

I have an Onkyo 876 for HT duty. I've tried running my DAC into it and using my Odysseys for power. I couldn't find any love for the sound. I don't know if the Onkyo is worse than other receivers or not. My friend that purchased the 2100 from me went from a nice Sony DA4ES receiver (great for it's day) and the improvement was very obvious. He runs a Music Hall DAC modified exactly like mine.

I'm not trying to spend your money, I'm just trying to share my experience. I think merrymaid and Nuance would agree with me. You could try the amp, I just don't think you'd be getting the most from it.

Hey there Gents.... Back from Mexico, looks like I gots lots to catch up on here... good lord...

I haven't stated whether I was going to be able to make that date as of yet... too soon for me to know right now...

I will honestly state my opinion on MerryMaids room as what has pretty much already been determined here - irregularly shaped - close boundaries on the right wall, with that partial mid wall open where the kitchen breakfast counter-top area is and those walls jutting out where the surrounds are mounted, def not consistent on either side, and are likely huge contributors to the issues here...

A room such as this could benefit from major room treatments - in addition to a DECENT room correction working on the reflection points that are causing many of the problems. Can't say that I'm a big fan of the YPAO for the best in room correction (shoot me people ) The measurements are great and all, but its not showing ringing or decay - did you guys save those full REW's that you could bring that back up...?

Terry's room has little to no side boundary issues with his very long front walls, high ceilings and lack of major reflective sound wave anomalies interacting with the listening position.

I didn't really catch the method of listening, whether it was with the Parasound or with the Yamaha, I would assume you guys were removing the HT preamp from the mix to keep things equal and running try through the DAC, so there was no Room Correction help in any of this for either speaker in this room... Personally I am a huge advocate of room correction, especially in my own room - working through different receivers/preamps settling down on my D2v for just that reason - to smooth things out for the entire band - which has done astonishingly well for both my HT and 2 ch....


Honestly I wouldn't do this sort of shootout thing in my own great room as its a semi disastrous place for listening (too bright), and has taken alot of time, $$ and setup to get things right, but it does have a spectacular layout being corner loaded - like the way the mains are oriented with the sidewall,..i.e. the obtuse angle in which the angle of incidence is such that those side reflections blow past and arrive much later than the axial stuff. High ceiling, sidewalls that fall away, the only potential issue is off the floor, which I have tried to minimize to the best of my ability with area rug for the seating location and without completely covering up my beautiful wood floor..... ARC has made a MAJOR impact on my place, and I personally wouldn't put together a HT or even 2ch setup without it....

Every room is different and will always be a challenge, but I'll be perfectly honest - I would rather have a semi live room over that of a totally dead room any day of the week, its just more exciting and to me more realistic of listening environment....

Oh and BTW - I will mention that electronics will make a difference - especially tubes - but only freaks like terry with his sonar bat ears will ever notice a difference in CABLES !!!!

Flame Suit ON !!!!!

It's not my fault you guys are deaf.

I hope you can make to the GTG. I'd at least like you to hear the new LMS-Ultra setup that you had a major hand in putting together. I was listening this afternoon and the bass is incredible!

And to think you doubted me, and don't say you didn't...
I think a new picture with the Dual 18" wheels is in order....

Just for the record, I have BETTER friends than you guys that hear differences in cables.

I doubted you...yes. But you know I heard what I needed to at your place. I was very concerned with room interaction. Luckily it turned out PERFECT!

Since you want to derail Brandon's thread, here you go:

THE TWINS!



That's a 58" plasma for reference. Looks pretty small, heh?

Holy Moly - I thought we were the only friends you had... who knew....

Not sure this is a derailing, as that is a pic of your room for the next adventure, so its simply a side step.... !!!!

Now that my friend is beautiful.... those subs are bigger then the plasma... - AWESOME !!!! New power plant for those monsters tomorrow.... someones getting excited...

Looks like those cones are mounted crooked....
Sure you weren't drinking when you put those in...?

TJHUB: Are those ATS Acoustics panels on the rear wall? How is the off-axis performance of your MTM center channel, does it have same size and type drivers as your mains?

LOL! Touche. You got me!

Those are in fact ATS acoustic panels in TJ's room, and they are awesome!

Patrick, don't make me drag you out of that house and force you to the GTG on the 30th!

Settle down JR, I got the largest investment in those LMSs next to TJ, I get first choices on the pillaging

I'm very much looking forward to getting more power on the subs. I can't wait to find out what they can really do!

Cones crooked? Why I ought'a... They are straighter than anything at your place!



I have ATS panels on both the front and rear walls. I really like them and the price is right. Oh yeah, they work too!

I will be honest and let you know that I am the ultimate critic when it comes to 2-channel sound, but for HT, I don't seem to notice much as long as the sound is "fun." The center channel is a sealed version of my mains using the exact same drivers. I have never noticed any off-axis issues, but they are likely there mostly due to the ribbon tweeter and horizontal MTM design. The speakers are very clear for HT and it all seems to work great.

He just has a single LMS in his bedroom. I think he thought dual opposed 18's would be a tad over the top.

Looks like the GTG on the 30th is cancelled. Someone screwed up!

It'll have to be another day now, but when you do make the grab and run I'll trip him to give you a lengthier head start. Then when he goes after you his other LMS will be sitting there all alone...hint hint.

I like hearing about the differences between the speakers as wella s ideas about room interaction. I think the reality is we are all simply looking to achieve the best sound to US and if people are getting their panties in a twist on the internet over someone's opinion on the internet, well, that's downright funny!

If you don't mind and if it is open I would love to hear about the GTG dates to come as if possible I would love to attend and "hear". As I get closer to finishing my room I welcome the opportunity to meet more people and host a future GTG.

Keep the opinions coming gentlemen!

Now that is a seriously commendable quote- WES - you my friend are always welcome at my house again !!!

Let me know when your ready for the best bass you could ever feel/hear ;-)

I know I'd like to have you there, Wes. You've got a great ear and have worked hard to achieve something very special in your home.

Thanks guys! As I scale back on my racecar hobby I plan to focus more on audio for sure. I will be ready for your sage sub advice very soon Patrick! Perhaps we can do price range comparisons in the future. Rather than ID or whatnot we can pick a price point and try to fill that based on MSRP of the speakers in attendance.

Just some food for thought.

Guys let me know when the next one is. I may be able to bring up some Revels, not sure which ones though.

^ That would be great! It will be nice to finally meet you.

Ok guys, did I see on the Ascend site that your GTG is next Saturday, the 23rd? Hurry up I need to hear everyones' opinions on the Ascend Towers vs. the Salk Songtowers when in the same room, driven by the same electronics playing the same music!

Yes, unbelievably, we have settled on next Saturday, the 23rd for the GTG. I almost gave up on trying to come up with a date that worked for everyone!

You will have your answer next weekend. Well, maybe answers as it may be. We may not all agree on one winner.