SE WI Tower speaker GTG - Page 55

One other thing I will say. I do not envy speaker maufacturers trying to ship anything even remotely heavy. It seems to be sort of pot luck as far as whether shipped speakers are treated well or just thrown under a bus. It would be different if shipping was cheap but it is not.

Not sure what you are implying here Dennis. "Wisconsin" is not to blame for the troubles with these speakers, so the reference to re-routing seems a little harsh.

Are you saying that Randy's method of packaging was better than the packaging utilized when shippped? Things can get damaged utilizing buble wrap, and they can even be damaged in a box that is packaged nearly bomb-proof. I once had a $3,000 M&K subwoofer dropped by UPS down concrete steps. Although the packaging utilized by M&K was amazing, the 100 pound subwoofer still sustained damage.

As long as the package is properly insured, shipping damage concerns should be lessened. Sure, there might be a delay due to damage in shipping, but insurance is there for a reason. It covered me when the shipping company dropped my subwoofer.

I think he was saying that tongue in cheek. I don't think "Wisconsin" should take it personally.
I wrapped one of the boxes in bubble wrap (used on the outside and then covered with plastic) because the box had already been damaged and was in sad shape. I used that technique because I got speakers and a sub wrapped that way from a mfg. and it is the best packing I have seen and I have seen alot. 2-3 layers of large bubble wrap on the outside of a double box then wrap in plastic.

I have had two claims and while I got paid, it was a pain in the butt. However, I was shipping used so that made it a harder claim.

Thank you. I too am annoyed when someone claims we're making excuses. We knew something wasn't right, but until we knew exactly what (amp and damaged Phil 2's) we had no ground to stand on. Regardless, I'll never be posting my impressions of a GTG again; the naysayers have won.


I'm looking forward to it too, but I will only share my impressions privately due to reasons explained above. I'll keep you posted via PM or something.

Yes. I can definitely see how shipping used would change things. Ideally, the shippers would handle all packages with care. I have learned over time that this is not the case. The subwoofer I mentioned was dropped down cement stairs that had just been completed. It not only damaged the speaker, but also took a chunk out of the stairs!

Double whammie then.

I guess I'll have to start using those smilely things. You can petty much assume any comment I make is tongue-in-cheek, except my invoices, of course.

It's all good Dennis

I would not worry about naysayers, it happens all the time. I will keep comparing things and give my opinions. I will keep getting comments on how I am wrong but you can't please everyone. I have a major sub project coming either tomorrow or next week and adding more speakers for my line array just to see what the differences are for myself. I will share my impressions but they are my impressions.

When I rated my very cheap DR-200's above everything you don't think I got blasted from the owners of other products? Of course I did, I just told them why and said others might pick the opposite. What can one do? If we don't compare and have fun doing so this forum would get boring real fast. I remember we had threads going comparing our SPL levels of movies to see what others were experiencing compared to one another and there were people who said it was useless. I said it kept us doing stuff and having fun in the process. I won't stop!

Don't let the @#$!'s win!!


Awesome to hear, MKTheatre. I am very interested in these GTGs because I am so far away it's impossible to attend one.

I am also very keen to hear some feedback on line array speakers, because at the moment I trying to decide whether to get Salk SoundScapes or arrays.

You're wrong MKtheater

Just kidding. I agree with your post. It is called an opinon because that is exactly what it is. Not everyone will agree with comments from me or others, or perhaps no one even will. I am fine with that .

Anyone who has seen the videos of deliveries made by FedEx or UPS knows deliveries can be abused. However, sometimes the manufacturers are at fault. Consider the following.

Packaging is a science. There are companies who have expertise in developing packaging for whatever you're sending and there's an awful lot of materials and ways of designing boxes. They have standardized tests designed to simulate S/H (drop tests where the box is dropped from certain heights and at different corners...new box with the product inside for each test) and these tests can be destructive. So, imagine a smaller company having to pony up several speakers across their product line which may include models with the RAAL tweeter which I think is more delicate than a regular tweeter, for testing which may be destructive. That's a lot of product you might have to eat.

Also consider that just because something appears well braced, there may be other bracing techniques that are more shipping friendly. A larger company can expense these sorts of tests and product development costs over a larger volume. A smaller company may just elect to have the stuff sent by rail or private trucking where the customer takes on the additional S/H.

What I'm looking to get at is that if folks are experiencing what seems to be inordinate number of shipping problems, then the finger may be pointing in the wrong direction.

Totally agree. That of course doesn't excuse the abuses and frankly the drop test to me is a little ridiculous from what I have heard and I don't think even seasoned shippers with weights that near the max (150 lbs) pack for that. I think they pack and understand some will get thrown under the bus.

My recommendation is bubble wrap on the outside (2-3 layers) with plastic wrapping. Of couse, I don't guarantee that.

P.S. My wife is pretty critical of some of the UPS and FedEx delivery people especially those that aren't the regular delivery people. I think she is reminded of the beginning of the Pet Detective movie.

I'm surprised no one was tempted to light the fuse at the GTG. That big black one looks like a doozy.

Found this in the Salk Songtowers audioholics review:


The crossover uses very high quality air core inductors properly oriented to avoid crosstalk coupling, and audiophile polypropylene capacitors. At first I thought Salk was using hot melt for holding the parts down. It turns out that this was not hot melt but heavy-duty construction adhesive. A few years ago they started having problems with shipping damage. The cabinets arrived just fine, but heavy air coils were being ripped off of crossover boards (especially by UPS). They experimented with many different solutions until they came up with this adhesive. Once the adhesive off-gases (in about 24 hours) it bonds so well you have to use a chisel to remove components from the crossover board. This, coupled with the liberal use of tie-wraps has virtually eliminated crossover shipping damage. In fact, they have had zero failures in the two years or so they have used their present system!

Ha - good one!

That's only a 40 uf cap. You should see the 150 uf poly on the other side.
The shipping cartons and foam pads I use for the 2's were provided by the factory, and passed a 200-lb drop test. This is the first problem I've had. I commissioned the packing for the 3's from the same people who supply Polk. It costs over $100 a pair.

I cleaned out my in box as things have settled down, so feel free to PM me.

Oohhhhhhh. So you actually want the money you quoted in the invoice? About that....

:P

There is something I need to get off my chest. I absolutely refuse to believe my left amp had anything to do with any of the speakers sounding like anything but their best with the exception of the SoundScapes. I feel like everyone is looking for a single answer to explain things; that is just not so.

To be VERY clear, I have NEVER, EVER heard any type of distortion or clipping from my setup before what happened with the SoundScapes. I have got to be one of the most critical people around when it comes to sound. I listen to my setup as often as I can, and even today, there is no distortion. So it's not the amp's fault for everything. And I will stress one more time, had I had even a remote hint that my amp was compromised in any way for the GTG, I would not have hosted it.

I hear absolutely no differences in sound from the left and right speakers, no matter how loudly I listen. I also had people listening Friday night before the GTG, and the day after, and there was no hint of any distortion issue.

The only explaination is that I have a very large room and we were listening too loudly. This has always been my complaint about our GTG's, and I feel stupid for letting it happen once again. I'm fairly certain that we just stressed most of the speakers. Hitting peaks of 96db at the listening position likely translates to well over 100db at the speakers that are 13.5' from the listening position.

When Archea (hope I got the spelling right) heard the issue with the SoundScapes, it was a very different type of issue than he heard from any of the other speakers. I guess it can be assumed that the left amp showed it's weakness trying to drive the SoundScapes. I have never heard an amp clipping before, so I don't know what it sounds like. I just need to assume that people know what they are talking about.

I'm having a hard time with people saying how terrible it was to have a bad amp. I don't buy it. I don't think the amp was an issue at all until the SoundScapes.

Take this post as you want. Most do anyway.

As a listener both friday night and after the meet saturday --- to the point I'm sure we stayed way past our welcome --- I fully agree with Terry.

But you know you just kicked the hornets nest again.

Just know this, I enjoyed every minute of your visit. It's always great to be around enthusiasts, especially the level headed ones.

I don't care about the hornets nest. I won't be here very long...

TJHUB, I think you have a right to post what you feel without fear of backlash. Typically, if low(er)sensitivity speakers are being pushed by a cranked amp or receiver, the sound quality is often degraded. It doesn't really matter whether or not speakers or the amp caused the problems in this case. Who cares? We could brush the issues off as "environmental factors". Which tend to happen in the real world.

On a positive note, at least some of you got to hear the speakers and obtain honest feedback. Thanks for hosting the event.

It was clearly evident that all of the attendees enjoyed themselves at the GTG! Terry, again, my thanks in so graciously hosting the event, and opening your gorgeous home to the many people, some, like myself, being total strangers to you.

I can only imagine that if your situation were reversed with any of the rest of us, the unkind, and unnecessary comments would cut deeply as well. It's an unfortunate byproduct of an anonymous community (an Internet forum) that the same courtesy, and respect is not shown as would be the case in a face to face conversation.

Hold your head up high, those who partook of your hospitality, who were actually there, hold you in high regard, and that is the only metric that truly matters. Sometimes these things require a thick skin, sad but true.

If you are as fastidious about your sound system as was apparent from the components that comprise it, I have no doubts that you would not have willingly used a compromised piece in the playback chain.

I think it's ridiculous that a few bad apples should spoil the barrel, look at the number of views this thread has generated, there are a hundred times more people who have quietly, and politely read these pages looking for a bit of enlightenment than have responded, and even fewer whom have commented in a negative fashion.

As for myself, I'm much too hard headed to really care too much about the comments from those looking to cause controversy. As was well stated by Mrs. Nuance, life is too short for that. Words to live by.

I want to second this Terry - I can't even begin to express how much I appreciated being able to invade your home for a day. I would not have had a chance to listen to the speakers that now dominate the top of my current pecking order without your graciousness.

As far as the naysayers; in the end - haters are going to hate.

+2...and then some. Again, thanks for hosting Terry. It was an awesome GTG.