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SE WI Tower speaker GTG - Page 32

post #931 of 1776
4/15/12 at 3:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrs. Nuance View Post

Sorry folks - my son (he's not even two yet) somehow posted another response (with some added random letters) I was going to post, so I deleted it with Brandon's help. Let's try that again...

Brandon and I thought it would be fun to add my "official seal of approval" concerning my post; it was added to my "review."

By the way, Brandon says "congrats to our son, who somehow got to the computer and made his first post on AVS before he hit 2-years-old."

LOL that's funny. Nice touch =)
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post #932 of 1776
4/15/12 at 3:30pm
Frankly, an "honest" review is nearly impossible on this site. All anyone's honesty is met with 99% of the time is controversy. You all know the usual comments.

From what I gathered at the GTG, there were a lot of varying opinions. I didn't agree with many of them, but I'm not going to say any of them are "wrong," and I wouldn't challenge any of them. You are all welcome to like what you feel sounded best to you.

Great job with your comments "Mrs. Nuance." I was very happy to see you there, and I really wish my wife was remotely interested enough to at least participate. Unfortunately, we also had far too many family things going on that she had to handle on her own this weekend as some of the attendees witnessed.
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post #933 of 1776
4/15/12 at 3:41pm
Quote:


I am Mrs. Nuance and I approve of this message!

OK...that's pretty funny!
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post #934 of 1776
4/15/12 at 3:42pm
These were taken with a phone, so they aren't high quality. We did have a high-end camera there, so I hope he posts pictures later when he can.

Just started first lessening session:


Philharmonic 2's:


Salk SongTower RT's:


Who put that red cup there?


Ascend Sierra Tower's w/RAAL tweeter:
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post #935 of 1776
4/15/12 at 3:46pm
More (grainy - sorry) pics:

Group listening:


JTR Tripple 12-LP:


Salk HT2-TL:


Seaton Catalysts modified for 20Hz response:


Removing Catalysts (heavy) and prepping for SoundScapes:


Salk SoundScape 10:
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post #936 of 1776
4/15/12 at 3:47pm
I've been lurking in this thread just keeping up with the posts because I was so interested in hearing people's impressions of these very fine speakers. I would have continued to lurk except I was soooo impressed by Mrs. Nuance's refreshingly candid and lucid impressions that I just had to say THANK YOU!

I really enjoyed reading what she had to say because it didn't require anyone to read between the lines. Straight to the point in simple but descriptive English. I loved it and I loved the approval pic as well. I wish all reviews could be so forthright. While others may not agree with her findings, I am happy she said what was on her mind in such a clear manner. Thanks again!
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post #937 of 1776
4/15/12 at 3:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrs. Nuance View Post

These are my impressions

Good job - and thanks for being open and honest.
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post #938 of 1776
4/15/12 at 4:12pm
It twas I who placed the cup!
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post #939 of 1776
4/15/12 at 4:24pm
Like the rest of the crew I want to thank Terry for hosting. I learned a lot during the event and enjoyed meeting everyone. Here are some of the better pictures I took. This is the first time I have posted pics so I apologize if they don't look quite right. A little bummed I had to resize them from 6.5MB to less than 550kb. Oh well.
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post #940 of 1776
4/15/12 at 4:27pm
A couple more pictures.
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post #941 of 1776
4/15/12 at 4:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dlbeck View Post

Like the rest of the crew I want to thank Terry for hosting. I learned a lot during the event and enjoyed meeting everyone. Here are some of the better pictures I took. This is the first time I have posted pics so I apologize if they don't look quite right. A little bummed I had to resize them from 6.5MB to less than 550kb. Oh well.

Oh man - those look nice, so please post more!
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post #942 of 1776
4/15/12 at 4:29pm
Couple more...
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post #943 of 1776
4/15/12 at 4:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrs. Nuance View Post


Philharmonic 2:

My husband made me spend way too much time listening to these before the get together. At our house imaging was good but the vocals were lacking. I felt like they were either pushed way back in the stage or it sounded like they were drowned out by other instruments. My husband says this may have had to do with the open back design. We tried various stuffing configurations and the vocals still sounded recessed. I heard a bass peak and Brandon tried to correct it with REW and filters but it didn't go away. He showed me it was around 100Hz, but the other frequencies measured pretty flat. Moving on to the get together, they still sounded like they had the bass peak. The sound stage was wider, but that is probably because Terry has a bigger and better room. The vocals didn't change and were still quietly in the background compared to everything else. There was no depth and feeling with the vocals, and it sounded more like a studio recording than an intimate setting. I like the tweeter - it doesn't give me a headache. I was unimpressed with the quality of the cabinets. I honestly had a higher expectations because my husband talks up Dennis Murphy who makes the crossovers for Salk speakers. I don't think anything was wrong with the crossover, but I expected the quality of his speaker to match Jim Salk's and it did not. These were my second least favorite speakers.

Thanks for the review Mrs. Nuance! You did a great Job. I enjoyed your reviews very much. Very audiophile

My only comments aren't really directed at you but at our geeks.

I know that nobody believes me. Not even Jim Salk or Dennis Murphy, but the Phils and the SoundScapes can sound laid back if the speakers are not wired in right phase. I think that both Dennis and Jim should wire the plus side of the internal crossover to the minus terminal and the minus side of the terminal to the plus side on the top and bottom modules. I had to push the phase button on my preamp for both the Phils and the SoundScapes to get them from sounding so laid back. Now, with some singers I almost have them singing in my lap. It is a shame that you don't have them anymore to try reversing the phase at the amp or speaker terminals.

I know Dennis will say it is just because there wasn't enough stuffing. Nuance? How much stuffing did you have in the Phils?

Bob
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post #944 of 1776
4/15/12 at 4:38pm
I also wanted to thank Terry for hosting, and everyone was so nice - I had a blast!!! I am relatively new to the whole audio scene and I am learning a lot thanks to things like this.

Wow, based on the pics I am finding out that I am not nearly as photogenic as the speakers! Can't wait to see more!
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post #945 of 1776
4/15/12 at 4:46pm
Now that I posted the important part (the pics), wanted to give my humble opinion. I do not have the audio knowledge that Terry, Pete, Brandon and the others have so I'm not proclaiming any expertise here. Just my thoughts. I actually prefer to listen to the female vocals so I paid a little more attention during those tracks. Thanks to Terry for using Hallelujah by Brandi Carlile. Actually I agreed with a lot of what Nuance's wife stated earlier.

Phil 2's - Excellent mid-bass. Female vocals sounded a little strained on our 3 female demo songs.

Nuance's SongTowers - finish was outstanding. Female vocals sounded clear and transparent. Excellent highs. Lot more bass than I expected.

Ascends - less soundstage that the SongTowers. Great mid-range and highs.

Terry's Salk HT2-TL's - I love these speakers because they are the ones I own except for the RAAL tweeters. They were my second favorite. Sorry, Terry I prefer the RAAL but also admit I'm used to those. :-)

JTR's - sorry Jeff...these were very fatiguing on my ears too. I had to go out to the deck after awhile. Shrill female vocals. Least favorite. Might be good HT speakers.

Seaton C12's - these speakers impressed me the most. I was expecting very little after hearing the JTR's since they were a similar type of speaker but they were amazing. Great soundstage and the Hells Bells track sounded better than any other speaker. I heard things I did not hear with the previous speakers. Female vocals sounded smooth and full. Also, really enjoyed talked to Mark afterwards. Great guy.

SS 10's - beautiful finish. Best production of the piano that I heard from any other speaker. Review was cut short after the damaged driver was discovered. Bummed. :-(

Overall, it was worth the 8 hour drive. Terry was a great host and learned a lot talking with Pete, Brandon, Brandon & Mark. And it was extremely satisfying to finally meet Nuance after all the posts I have read from him and since he was a reason I bought Salk speakers in the first place. Thanks Wisconsin!
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post #946 of 1776
4/15/12 at 4:58pm
Thank you, to all who were involved having this wonderful event. Terry, Brandon(s), and all those who brought their speakers: Brandon(s), Dennis, Jeff, Jim and Mark.

Here is my disclaimer. I have been a way from critical audio for almost the last 20 years. This is the first event like this I have ever attended. And I only heard two of the speakers in the sweet spot. Yes not a wise choice, there was more than enough opportunity for me do so. So my opinions really will not cover soundstage.
I think ever speaker there had something that I noticed that it did better than the others. The Philharmonic 2's I thought were impressive for their price point, and their transits were excellent. The piano sounded most realistic on these and the SS10's.
The SS10's totally disappeared in the room, full of music. It was uncanny despite that fact that one of them had a damaged driver.
I think for most part as someone had told me the Salk's have a family resemblance. I did not know what was meant by that statement until I heard the 3 there. I like Salk's and the way they present the music. Most all of the speakers were musical sounding, by this I mean you could enjoy what you were listening to.
Another comment that needs repeating is things could have sounded much different in a smaller room. I think some of the weaker sounding speakers would have done better in a manageable space. Please don't get me wrong Terry's room is incredible to listen to music in and gives a much different impression of music than say my room. And my satellites would simply die in his room.
I really enjoyed meeting many that were there. I was a great group of people.
Nice job on the review Laura.
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post #947 of 1776
4/15/12 at 5:00pm
Darn it seems in testing the only impression people managed to get was regarding bass performance and compression/distortion when pushing 110db plus


^it would have been far worse if this metric was ignored. I'm glad to hear the good, bad, and the technical areas where certain speakers shined.
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post #948 of 1776
4/15/12 at 5:11pm
As per a request via PM, here are the speakers and their respective prices. Please correct me if I am wrong:

Philharmonic 2: $2000/pair
Salk SongTower RT: $2700.pair
Ascend Acoustics Sierra Tower with RAAL ribbon: $2700/pair
JTR Triple 12-LP: $3000 (per pair?)
Salk Veracity HT2-TL: $4500/pair
Seaton Catalyst: $7000/pair
Salk SoundScape 10: $12,000/pair
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post #949 of 1776
4/15/12 at 5:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by lou99 View Post

Darn it seems in testing the only impression people managed to get was regarding bass performance and compression/distortion when pushing 110db plus

Huh? Do you mean regarding all speakers or the SS10's? If you're talking about all of the speakers then I'm confused, as some of the attendees have already checked in and given their impressions regarding more than just bass and compression.
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post #950 of 1776
4/15/12 at 5:17pm
Brandon, as an FYI, lou99 was commenting on an earlier comment made by Solid-State.
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post #951 of 1776
4/15/12 at 5:21pm
I was quoting someone else Nuance
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post #952 of 1776
4/15/12 at 5:25pm
Love the pics!! Glad you guys had a great time. Great reviews so far thanks for the read keep'em coming . Also wondering if certain guests had more time in the sweet spot or was it random. Just something to consider when reading some of the impressions of the different speakers. Any take any videos to post.. besides Justin Bieber ones? jk lol
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post #953 of 1776
4/15/12 at 5:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by pennynike1 View Post

Thanks Solid-State. I think people tend to like what they like. I talked to people that loved all the Salk speakers, others thought that the Soundscape 10's were fantastic (even with the defective midrange) and others who thought that the Seaton or JTR speakers shined.

As you know, the primary comparison was done with just the left and right channels, without a subwoofer. There was a range of music plaid during the speaker comparison. For the most part, all speakers sounded good to me in the mid and high ranges.

On a song like "Boom Boom Pow" by the Black Eyed Peas, however, it seemed to me that several of the speakers (such as the Philharmonic 2, Salk HT2-TL, Ascend Tower) could have benefited from a 12" woofer or an external subwoofer. I can't envison too many people are going to be listeniong to Black Eyed Peas with some of these sleaker styled speakers. I did notice that an external subwoofer could have improved the listening experience of the JTR's during the B.E.P.'s song.

I am not sure if the tall cathedral ceiling in Terry's room had any effect on how things sounded or not. He did have a fairly large living room. In any event, the bass production of the speakers seemed to me to be what seperated some speakers from others at the GTG.

For the JTR's quite a disadvantage listening to music without a sub, since they are designed to be used with a sub. I thought that the Seaton speakers would have the same disadvantage, until I read that Mark modified them to extend to 20hz. That is one big advantage when you have active speakers with DSP.
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post #954 of 1776
4/15/12 at 5:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Solid-State View Post

Again not much mention of the Sierra Tower from Ascend Acoustics.

Darn it seems in testing the only impression people managed to get was regarding bass performance and compression/distortion when pushing 110db plus. This is what always happens when you swap speakers out without a quick A/B switch. Did you guys play the same track on each speaker within a reasonable time frame? At this point I figure it was just swapping speakers every 40 minutes and playing different tracks on each out of sequence. Real shame as it's going to be hard to get a decent idea of the speakers. I do still very much respect and look forward to attendees opinions.

I guess the best person to ask regarding the Sierra Tower would be the person that owns it and brought it to the GTG.

At this point though it looks like the glorified PA guys (no insult intended just facts) revved their engines and impressed people. It's like a car meet where someone brings a Hemi Challenger and another brings a Lotus Exige S and the Hemi guys revs his engine and does a faster quarter mile...

DARN...

I look forward to reading your impression of these so called PA speakers if you ever get the chance to listen to them. I think you will be pleasantly surprised.
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post #955 of 1776
4/15/12 at 5:31pm
I spoke with some people about that very issue, including Archaea, who I consider to be quite knowledgable. I am looking forward to Archaea's review, because he did an excellent job explaining about how the JTR's are designed to have the sub handle the bass below 60 hertz.


Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

For the JTR's quite a disadvantage listening to music without a sub, since they are designed to be used with a sub.
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post #956 of 1776
4/15/12 at 5:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuance View Post

As per a request via PM, here are the speakers and their respective prices. Please correct me if I am wrong:

Philharmonic 2: $2000/pair
Salk SongTower RT: $2700.pair
Ascend Acoustics Sierra Tower with RAAL ribbon: $2700/pair
JTR Tripple 12-LP: $3000 (per pair?)
Salk Veracity HT2-TL: $4500/pair
Seaton Catalyst: $7000/pair
Salk SoundScape 10: $12,000/pair

Interesting that both you and the wife misspelled Triple the same way.
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post #957 of 1776
4/15/12 at 5:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post


Interesting that both you and the wife misspelled Triple the same way.

Hahaha I noticed that too
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post #958 of 1776
4/15/12 at 5:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by lou99 View Post

I was quoting someone else Nuance

Got it thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

Interesting that both you and the wife misspelled Triple the same way.

You can blame me because I proofread her post. I also blame spell check for missing it.
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post #959 of 1776
4/15/12 at 5:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

Interesting that both you and the wife misspelled Triple the same way.

I wonder why
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post #960 of 1776
4/15/12 at 5:53pm
^ Here we go... RMK!, are you trying to imply something? Now you're just feeding the troll (jeffc1). It was only a matter of time...
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