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2012 F1 in HDTV - Page 6  

post #151 of 789
Quote:
Originally Posted by slowbiscuit View Post

Now if they could just figure out a way to enhance the comp enough so that the guy that leads the first lap doesn't win 75% of the time.

The problem with F1 remains - not enough racing for the lead after the first shakeout, especially with the fuel rules as they are now. So it's all about qualifying and getting the holeshot on the first turn.

Amen! There is no spectacle in sports more exciting than the heart pumping adrenaline rush resulting from the start of an F1 race. Unfortunately, though, more often than not nothing that happens in the rest of the race comes close to matching the excitement of the start.
post #152 of 789
Quote:
Originally Posted by slowbiscuit View Post

The problem with F1 remains - not enough racing for the lead after the first shakeout, especially with the fuel rules as they are now. So it's all about qualifying and getting the holeshot on the first turn.

How this is a problem?
post #153 of 789
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ungermann View Post

How this is a problem?

It's because NASCAR has lead changes all the time, and the average American doesn't pay close enough attention to appreciate all that goes into an F1 race. If there aren't lead changes, then it's just not exciting. Forget that a pass in F1 means much more than any pass anywhere during a NASCAR race.
post #154 of 789
Quote:
Originally Posted by oryan_dunn View Post

It's because NASCAR has lead changes all the time, and the average American doesn't pay close enough attention to appreciate all that goes into an F1 race. If there aren't lead changes, then it's just not exciting. Forget that a pass in F1 means much more than any pass anywhere during a NASCAR race.

NASCAR has sooo many lead changes that they are all inconsequential until the last half lap, and mostly boring and meaningless up to that point.

Multi class (ALMS, LeMans) sports car racing is the best example of lead changes and how that adds excitement to a race.
post #155 of 789
Quote:
Originally Posted by oryan_dunn View Post

It's because NASCAR has lead changes all the time, and the average American doesn't pay close enough attention to appreciate all that goes into an F1 race. If there aren't lead changes, then it's just not exciting. Forget that a pass in F1 means much more than any pass anywhere during a NASCAR race.

Look, I get that F1 tech is l33t uber awesome stuff man. Really, I do. I just wished the racing that resulted was more than a (mostly) single file exercise after the first lap. I think F1 gets that too, otherwise we wouldn't have gimmicks like DRS to encourage passing.

Yeah, I'm a NASCAR fan too. And an IndyCar fan. And a MotoGP and AMA Pro fan. I like street and track racing period, so I watch F1. But I find myself leaving an F1 race on as background noise while I do other stuff for most races, because there's not a lot going on that interests me after the first few laps.

Yes, you can say the same about NASCAR for a lot of the middle laps, but the end in particular is usually much more interesting than any F1 race. The issue/question isn't that F1 lead changes are more important, it's that there aren't ANY for a lot of races so it's just follow the leader.

I think the no-refuel rule really took a lot of strategy out of the sport, in the effort of improving safety I guess.
post #156 of 789
Quote:
Originally Posted by oryan_dunn View Post

It's because NASCAR has lead changes all the time, and the average American doesn't pay close enough attention to appreciate all that goes into an F1 race. If there aren't lead changes, then it's just not exciting. Forget that a pass in F1 means much more than any pass anywhere during a NASCAR race.

What it really says is not so much about F1, rather more about the mental acuity of the average American.
post #157 of 789
Modern racing is simply the result of whatever rules are in place - rules that most sanctioning bodies change to affect the racing for fan interest. NASCAR has taken it to pro wrestling levels to me, but F1 has made some interesting changes, mostly thinking of tires. For me it's interesting to follow who's on what tires and how long will they last and where will he come out when he pits.

Designing in low durability sounded dumb to me at first, but I have to admit it makes for an interesting race. This season may hold many surprises, hard to tell if one team will figure it out and dominate, or if we'll have multiple winning teams as the season progresses - Renault may replace the red cars as the third major team, and with RB confused, it all looks quite fascinating (for now.)
post #158 of 789
Quote:
Originally Posted by oink View Post

What it really says is not so much about F1, rather more about the mental acuity of the average American.

True, because the hard core F1 fans are more into gaps and stats than watching passes, except for those that are crucial. Does NASCAR even have passing that is really crucial to position for race outcome, other than just before the finish?
post #159 of 789
NASCAR doesn't have passes during the race, they have shuffling.
post #160 of 789
Quote:
Originally Posted by fjames View Post

Designing in low durability sounded dumb to me at first, but I have to admit it makes for an interesting race. This season may hold many surprises, hard to tell if one team will figure it out and dominate, or if we'll have multiple winning teams as the season progresses - Renault may replace the red cars as the third major team, and with RB confused, it all looks quite fascinating (for now.)

Agreed.
I think we are in for an excellent season.


Quote:
Originally Posted by fjames View Post

NASCAR doesn't have passes during the race, they have shuffling.

LOL.
post #161 of 789
Quote:
Originally Posted by fjames View Post

NASCAR doesn't have passes during the race, they have shuffling.

That is a very apt description. I'm going to use that from now on.
post #162 of 789
Quote:
Originally Posted by slowbiscuit View Post

Look, I get that F1 tech is l33t uber awesome stuff man. Really, I do. I just wished the racing that resulted was more than a (mostly) single file exercise after the first lap. I think F1 gets that too, otherwise we wouldn't have gimmicks like DRS to encourage passing.

Yeah, I'm a NASCAR fan too. And an IndyCar fan. And a MotoGP and AMA Pro fan. I like street and track racing period, so I watch F1. But I find myself leaving an F1 race on as background noise while I do other stuff for most races, because there's not a lot going on that interests me after the first few laps.

Yes, you can say the same about NASCAR for a lot of the middle laps, but the end in particular is usually much more interesting than any F1 race. The issue/question isn't that F1 lead changes are more important, it's that there aren't ANY for a lot of races so it's just follow the leader.

I think the no-refuel rule really took a lot of strategy out of the sport, in the effort of improving safety I guess.

Yeah, I like other forms of racing, particularly IndyCar and ALMS. But I find myself the exact opposite. I follow F1 races, watch all the sessions I can over a weekend, while NASCAR ends up on when I can't find anything else to watch, or is on in the background while I do other things. Would rather have NASCAR on in the background than any of the other 'reality' shows my girlfriend would have on the television.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fjames View Post

NASCAR doesn't have passes during the race, they have shuffling.

That is a very good description, not only of NASCAR, but of any long duration oval race, even in IndyCar.
post #163 of 789
Quote:
Originally Posted by oryan_dunn View Post

That is a very good description, not only of NASCAR, but of any long duration oval race, even in IndyCar.

+1
Driving around in a circle is NOT racing, as far as I am concerned.
post #164 of 789
Oh cool a F1/Nascar debate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by oink View Post

What it really says is not so much about F1, rather more about the mental acuity of the average American.

I have heard the same tired arguments about soccer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fjames View Post

Modern racing is simply the result of whatever rules are in place - rules that most sanctioning bodies change to affect the racing for fan interest. NASCAR has taken it to pro wrestling levels to me, but F1 has made some interesting changes, mostly thinking of tires. For me it's interesting to follow who's on what tires and how long will they last and where will he come out when he pits.

True. Nascar would freely admit that they are in the entertainment industry. That is why they always talk about the show. Of course whenever you put racing on TV it is more about entertainment than sport.

As for the technology, I would love to see this aero BS exercise reduced if not eliminated. I would like to see the money expenditure in chassis, engine, tires and electronics.
post #165 of 789
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ericglo View Post

As for the technology, I would love to see this aero BS exercise reduced if not eliminated.

I'm not sure how it could be done by rules alone.
Aerodynamics is a part of ALL racing, at least to some extent.
Downforce will always be part of car racing...it's simply Newtonian.
post #166 of 789
The fuel changes from last year took most of the strategy out of F1. It was more fun to watch under the old rules, 2 stops, 3 stops, etc.
post #167 of 789
Quote:
Originally Posted by oink View Post

I'm not sure how it could be done by rules alone.
Aerodynamics is a part of ALL racing, at least to some extent.
Downforce will always be part of car racing...it's simply Newtonian.

I don't think you spelled that right oink. I'll check then get back to you on it.

On Topic: NASCAR ROCKS!
post #168 of 789
Quote:
Originally Posted by rich3fan View Post

I don't think you spelled that right oink. I'll check then get back to you on it.

On Topic: NASCAR ROCKS!

No it doesn't they can't even race when it rains! Other forms of car and MOTORCYLE racing do.
post #169 of 789
Quote:
Originally Posted by joed32 View Post

The fuel changes from last year took most of the strategy out of F1. It was more fun to watch under the old rules, 2 stops, 3 stops, etc.

Under the old rules they did not have refueling (by "old rules" I mean the rules in place at the time when I started watching F1).
post #170 of 789
Quote:
Originally Posted by joed32 View Post

The fuel changes from last year took most of the strategy out of F1. It was more fun to watch under the old rules, 2 stops, 3 stops, etc.

I agree some strategy was lost.
However, in the years leading up to the no fuel stop rule, there were several real and near catastrophic possible fires in the pits.

I'll take the no fuel stops anyday...IMO, it isn't worth people getting killed or hurt over.
post #171 of 789
I like big machinery moving fast, on water, land, and in the air. Obviously each form of racing has it's pros and cons, but for me none of them have anywhere as much viewing impact on HDTV as they do watching live. For reasons I can't explain, this isn't the case with team sports like hockey, baseball, football, basketball, etc.
post #172 of 789
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken H View Post

I like big machinery moving fast, on water, land, and in the air. Obviously each form of racing has it's pros and cons, but for me none of them have anywhere as much viewing impact on HDTV as they do watching live. For reasons I can't explain, this isn't the case with team sports like hockey, baseball, football, basketball, etc.

Two words:
Speed & Noise

Speed can't really be captured on a small screen (any screen is small compared to real life), and your home stereo probably can't get as loud as a screaming F1, IndyCar, etc.

Sorry OT:
Are you going to go to the Bell Isle race this year?
post #173 of 789
Quote:
Originally Posted by oryan_dunn View Post


Sorry OT:
Are you going to go to the Bell Isle race this year?

Definitely maybe. Hopefully. It may come down to my travel schedule.

By the way, I've seen live F1, IndyCar, NASCAR, Unlimited H1, Red Bull Air Racing, Blue Angles, Thunderbirds, etc.
post #174 of 789
Quote:
Originally Posted by oryan_dunn View Post

Two words:
Speed & Noise

Speed can't really be captured on a small screen (any screen is small compared to real life), and your home stereo probably can't get as loud as a screaming F1, IndyCar, etc.

Or even an ALMS race with all the different classes and engines.
There simply is no substitute.
post #175 of 789
Quote:
Originally Posted by oink View Post

Or even an ALMS race with all the different classes and engines.
There simply is no substitute.

Yeah, I usually end up at the ALMS race at Mid-Ohio. Great time to be had, less people than at the IndyCar race the next day. I love the LED lights on the side of the car. When you're at the track, makes following the race much easier that it would otherwise be.
post #176 of 789
Quote:
Originally Posted by oryan_dunn View Post

Yeah, I usually end up at the ALMS race at Mid-Ohio. Great time to be had, less people than at the IndyCar race the next day. I love the LED lights on the side of the car. When you're at the track, makes following the race much easier that it would otherwise be.

I haven't been to a race in a few years (ALMS stopped coming to Portland).
I keep threatening to drive down to Laguna...

BTW, who is going to the first Austin race?
post #177 of 789
Not going to Austin, but attending Montreal F-1 again this year. Definately better live than HDTV. Anyone else attending?
post #178 of 789
Not Montreal, but I was thinking about taking the train into New York for the NJ GP. I live just a couple miles from a stop on Amtrak Lake Shore. I wish there was a way to get to Montreal via train easily that didn't have a huge layover somewhere, don't want to drive (12hr) and flying is out of the question.
post #179 of 789
Quote:
Originally Posted by oryan_dunn View Post

Not Montreal, but I was thinking about taking the train into New York for the NJ GP. I live just a couple miles from a stop on Amtrak Lake Shore. I wish there was a way to get to Montreal via train easily that didn't have a huge layover somewhere, don't want to drive (12hr) and flying is out of the question.

Understand that. I, also, will be watching for NJ F-1 tickets as I am only about 45 minutes away from the site by public transportation.
post #180 of 789
Quote:
Originally Posted by gprace View Post

Understand that. I, also, will be watching for NJ F-1 tickets as I am only about 45 minutes away from the site by public transportation.

If they're anything like the Austin F1 tickets this year, be prepared to pay a nice premium.
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