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Denon 2011 lineup. - Page 11

post #301 of 551
Quote:
Originally Posted by WiWavelength View Post

Nope. I understand your logic. But it is not sound reasoning. Your implication that the bench tests measurements of a lower model can inform us about the potential measurements of a higher model is nothing more than an unsubstantiated assumption, which can go awry in many ways. For example, the 2311CI could be a purely Denon design, while the 3311CI could be a hybrid Denon/Marantz design. Or maybe we have it backward; the 3311CI could be a SR7005 clone, hence a Marantz design.

AJ

Denon will not let the 3311 fall short of the 2311. The wattage difference may be minimal like the old (4310 vs 4810), especially outing 5 to 7 channels, but the pre side will be every bit as clean if not a little better.

My point was showing how much cleaner the 2311 is compared to the Marantz. Everyone is saying clone here and there between the two, but there is heck of a difference on paper between the two when it comes to looking at the results.
post #302 of 551
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2+2=5 View Post

Can you explain the conclusions they had on the Pioneer Elite SC-07 and Yamaha RX-Z7? On first glance which one is more powerful?

Again, you fixate on only one measurement: power output. Even if Home Theater's power output measurement methodology is not consistent with real world performance, you cannot generalize that an issue you have with one measurement technique renders all measurements (e.g. frequency response, S/N ratio, channel separation) suspect.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy_of_composition

AJ
post #303 of 551
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammmerhead View Post

Denon will not let the 3311 fall short of the 2311. The wattage difference may be minimal like the old (4310 vs 4810), especially outing 5 to 7 channels, but the pre side will be every bit as clean if not a little better.

How can you be so sure? Since you referenced the 4810CI & 4310CI, they measured almost identically in S/N ratio, but the lesser model 4310CI measured 15 dB better in channel separation.

AJ
post #304 of 551
Actually I don't fixate on it. Most people do, and it's funny. The same HT Mag all channel driven tests are cut and pasted over and over without any clue on how terrible such tests are and in fact often plain wrong in comparison to real world performance. So much so I've had a number of people tell me 'this receiver is more powerful because HT Mag posted bench tests and showed what's happening all channels driven.'

I digress, I'll end my rant and we can focus back on the new lineup.
post #305 of 551
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2+2=5 View Post

Actually I don't fixate on it. Most people do, and it's funny. The same HT Mag all channel driven tests are cut and pasted over and over without any clue on how terrible such tests are and in fact often plain wrong in comparison to real world performance. So much so I've had a number of people tell me 'this receiver is more powerful because HT Mag posted bench tests and showed what's happening all channels driven.'

I digress, I'll end my rant and we can focus back on the new lineup.

is this the ht mag that post all channel driven figures that far and exceed amps max power consumption. measurements like that are complete rubbish or when they start quoting ridiculous distortion figures !
post #306 of 551
Quote:
Originally Posted by alebonau View Post

is this the ht mag that post all channel driven figures that far and exceed amps max power consumption. measurements like that are complete rubbish or when they start quoting ridiculous distortion figures !

No.

AJ
post #307 of 551
Quote:
Originally Posted by WiWavelength View Post


No.

AJ

So which one we talking about then ?
post #308 of 551
Now that network connectivity is coming to the lower level AVRs I'm thinking of upgrading when these come out. But is there a way to wirelessly connect these AVRs to a home network? Perhaps with a wireless adapter? Currently, I have no network connection where my home theater is.
post #309 of 551
Quote:
Originally Posted by jake9 View Post
Now that network connectivity is coming to the lower level AVRs I'm thinking of upgrading when these come out. But is there a way to wirelessly connect these AVRs to a home network? Perhaps with a wireless adapter? Currently, I have no network connection where my home theater is.
A wireless bridge, such as the D-Link DAP-1522, would suit your needs.

Also, depending on the power wiring in your home, a powerline adapter setup could work quite well, and avoid the wireless interference issues commonly found in many homes. Something like the TRENDnet TPL-303E2K, which is a kit that includes both sides of the connection. Very easy to setup if you have fairly clean wiring in your home.
post #310 of 551
Quote:
Originally Posted by farkem View Post

A wireless bridge, such as the D-Link DAP-1522, would suit your needs.

Also, depending on the power wiring in your home, a powerline adapter setup could work quite well, and avoid the wireless interference issues commonly found in many homes. Something like the TRENDnet TPL-303E2K, which is a kit that includes both sides of the connection. Very easy to setup if you have fairly clean wiring in your home.

Let me ad my vote for using powerline adapters. They work exceedingly well in our home. I have my TV, Blu ray player, DVR, and, soon, networked AV receiver, all connected that way.
post #311 of 551
Quote:
Originally Posted by AUDude View Post

Well I like to keep up with the newest for some reason if it's not the best. Does Airplay do video streaming? I know the 3311 didn't and it was only audio and does anyone know if that's the case with the new one? I guess that's kind of a deal breaker and I could go with a 3311 and a AppleTV.

As far as I could tell from reading through the user manual of the 3312, the Airplay streaming is for audio-only, just like the 3311. It's possible that it may also be limited to the main zone as well (like the 3311) but it is unclear. There was no mention of streaming video through Airplay, which would be a big deal, considering they would be the first 3rd party product that supported it.
post #312 of 551
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trepanator View Post

As far as I could tell from reading through the user manual of the 3312, the Airplay streaming is for audio-only, just like the 3311. It's possible that it may also be limited to the main zone as well (like the 3311) but it is unclear. There was no mention of streaming video through Airplay, which would be a big deal, considering they would be the first 3rd party product that supported it.

You guys seemed to hit on some questions that I have-looking at 2312 and wondering, if a signal is received by AirPlay, will the Denon output that signal(only talking audio) to Zone 2. This is a real problem, finding a receiver that first has AirPlay and secondly will send the signal to Zone 2 (it seems most receivers will not send a digitial signal to Zone2). I just picked up an Apple TV today, and then realized, since it has no analog outs, I can't send the signal to my Zone 2 speakers (legacy Yamaha AVR). I thought by now, there would be receivers capable of doing this-looked at the manual on 2312 and it appears it will only transmit analog, but that is talking about a connected signal, not one received over AirPlay.
Does anybody know what these new AVR's will do regards above?
Thanks
post #313 of 551
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trepanator View Post

As far as I could tell from reading through the user manual of the 3312, the Airplay streaming is for audio-only, just like the 3311. It's possible that it may also be limited to the main zone as well (like the 3311) but it is unclear. There was no mention of streaming video through Airplay, which would be a big deal, considering they would be the first 3rd party product that supported it.

Until there is confirmation from Denon as to the actual implementation of Airplay on the 3312, we can presume at the very least it will be no different than on the 3311, in that it will only play to Zones 2/3 when also selected to play in the main zone as well.

The 1912, 2112 and 2312 will not likely be able to offer Airplay to Zone 2.
post #314 of 551
Hi,

apologies for the basic question, but what is the difference between the 1712 and 1912 - one has component switching vs. HDMI? Trying to decide whether to just pick up a 1911 now or wait - the volume overlay with HDMI is a big plus on the 12s. thanks!
post #315 of 551
Does anyone know if the new receivers have a new and improved ons screen interface?
post #316 of 551
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmunster2 View Post

You guys seemed to hit on some questions that I have-looking at 2312 and wondering, if a signal is received by AirPlay, will the Denon output that signal(only talking audio) to Zone 2. This is a real problem, finding a receiver that first has AirPlay and secondly will send the signal to Zone 2 (it seems most receivers will not send a digitial signal to Zone2). I just picked up an Apple TV today, and then realized, since it has no analog outs, I can't send the signal to my Zone 2 speakers (legacy Yamaha AVR). I thought by now, there would be receivers capable of doing this-looked at the manual on 2312 and it appears it will only transmit analog, but that is talking about a connected signal, not one received over AirPlay.
Does anybody know what these new AVR's will do regards above?
Thanks

I think I've read that the new Pioneer receiver can do Airplay in Zone 2, although setting it up seems a little tricky and you'll have to live with less powerful amps.

If you're only interested in doing audio streaming to the receiver, you could use an Airport Express ($99) or a first-generation AppleTV (eBay) which both have analog outputs.
post #317 of 551
Quote:
Originally Posted by dctrimble View Post

Hi,

apologies for the basic question, but what is the difference between the 1712 and 1912 - one has component switching vs. HDMI? Trying to decide whether to just pick up a 1911 now or wait - the volume overlay with HDMI is a big plus on the 12s. thanks!

Most likely the only difference will be the 1912 offers networking while the 1712 does not. Both have the same version of Audyssey MultEQ.
post #318 of 551
Quote:
Originally Posted by benalexe View Post

Does anyone know if the new receivers have a new and improved ons screen interface?

From what we've seen so far, it appears the 2312 and 3312 will both feature the more advanced GUI seen on the higher level models with the ability to overlay both a 2D and 3D signal, while the 2112 and lower models will use an improved OSD that will overlay a 2D signal but not a 3D signal.
post #319 of 551
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Until there is confirmation from Denon as to the actual implementation of Airplay on the 3312, we can presume at the very least it will be no different than on the 3311, in that it will only play to Zones 2/3 when also selected to play in the main zone as well.

The 1912, 2112 and 2312 will not likely be able to offer Airplay to Zone 2.

jd, that's not my problem-my issue is that my old receiver will only send an analog signal to its zone2 speakers. Did the 3311 send a digital signal to the zone 2 speakers?-that would be great and solve my problem. Right now I am streaming Pandora from a Sony blu-ray player and need to have both digital coax and the analog audio outs connected in order to get the music to zone 2.
Thanks
post #320 of 551
Yes, the 3311 will pass a PCM 2.0 signal to Zones 2/3 which includes Airplay.
post #321 of 551
With networking trickling down to 1912, 2112, and 2312 models, this year will be the first year we have networked Denon receivers that do NOT explicitly have the ability to send 2.0 PCM digital signals to Zone 2. I don't think we will know for sure until someone gets one of these units in their homes whether they will send networked audio (internet radio, pandora, airplay, etc) to Zone 2. It would definitely suck if they didn't...
post #322 of 551
What's everyone's best guess on the price of the 4312 when it is released? More importantly, will discounts from the online warehouses be available as they are on some of the current models?
post #323 of 551
Quote:
Originally Posted by j_thunders View Post

What's everyone's best guess on the price of the 4312 when it is released? More importantly, will discounts from the online warehouses be available as they are on some of the current models?

Same price as 4311, $1999 is my guess. You'll have to talk to some of the authorized online dealers by phone to find out what the discounts are.
post #324 of 551
" ...will also offer an Audyssey Pro installer package in both the AVR-2312CI and AVR-3312CI. This add-on boasts ideal sonic performance in up to 32 different positions, promising the best sound quality regardless of the size or shape of the room"(http://www.bigpicturebigsound.com/De...r-Series.shtml)

Does anyone know what this is or how much it retails for? I thought all Denon AVRs came with a microphone.
post #325 of 551
^^
Every Denon AVR that has a version of Audyssey installed comes with an Audyssey mic. The Pro-Installer Kit allows for much more detailed calibration and comes with a more sensitive mic and sells for about $500 for the kit plus $150 for a license per AVR.
post #326 of 551
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

^^
Every Denon AVR that has a version of Audyssey installed comes with an Audyssey mic. The Pro-Installer Kit allows for much more detailed calibration and comes with a more sensitive mic and sells for about $500 for the kit plus $150 for a license per AVR.

Ouch that's expensive. Thanks Mate.
post #327 of 551
Right. Not generally something an individual is going to buy unless they've got a higher level AVR ... say 4311 or 4312. Although it now opens the door for a Pro Installer to use his kit when installing the 2112 or 2312 for someone ... likely charging $200-$250 (including the $150 license fee) for the calibration.
post #328 of 551
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmunster2 View Post

You guys seemed to hit on some questions that I have-looking at 2312 and wondering, if a signal is received by AirPlay, will the Denon output that signal(only talking audio) to Zone 2. This is a real problem, finding a receiver that first has AirPlay and secondly will send the signal to Zone 2 (it seems most receivers will not send a digitial signal to Zone2). I just picked up an Apple TV today, and then realized, since it has no analog outs, I can't send the signal to my Zone 2 speakers (legacy Yamaha AVR). I thought by now, there would be receivers capable of doing this-looked at the manual on 2312 and it appears it will only transmit analog, but that is talking about a connected signal, not one received over AirPlay.
Does anybody know what these new AVR's will do regards above?
Thanks

I found a Toslink-->analog converter on monoprice that will allow your appletv to do audio in zone 2. just keep the HDMI plugged in for standard zone 1 viewing/playing and the converter to analog cables plugged in for the zone 2 playability. This is a little work but well worth it if you already have the AppleTV like me.
post #329 of 551
Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

I found a Toslink-->analog converter on monoprice that will allow your appletv to do audio in zone 2. just keep the HDMI plugged in for standard zone 1 viewing/playing and the converter to analog cables plugged in for the zone 2 playability. This is a little work but well worth it if you already have the AppleTV like me.

Thanks beast, but I really want the quality of the digital signal for the main listening area-I don't mind sending analog for the zone 2 speakers, but with the converter I would be getting analog in the main room and Zone2. Too bad they didn't have analog in addition to digital outs on Apple TV.
Also, found an issue with the Apple TV in our setup-when streaming Pandora and using the ipad2 to surf, you get dropouts-this doesn't happen when listening on the ipad and surfing, only when you send the signal via AirPlay to the receiver. Oh well, I am waiting for the new Denons to see if they will do what I want. I know a previous poster said the old 3311 will send a digital signal to zone 2, but I downloaded the manual for the 2312 (which I am interested in), and it states that things input over HDMI, coax, optical are not output to Zone2, only analog.
Have to wait and see once people get them.
post #330 of 551
Quote:


Thanks beast, but I really want the quality of the digital signal for the main listening area-I don't mind sending analog for the zone 2 speakers, but with the converter I would be getting analog in the main room and Zone2.

no, read again but more carefully this time

Quote:


just keep the HDMI plugged in for standard zone 1 viewing/playing and the converter to analog cables plugged in for the zone 2 playability.
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