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Denon 2011 lineup. - Page 12

post #331 of 551
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmunster2 View Post

Thanks beast, but I really want the quality of the digital signal for the main listening area-I don't mind sending analog for the zone 2 speakers, but with the converter I would be getting analog in the main room and Zone2. Too bad they didn't have analog in addition to digital outs on Apple TV.
Also, found an issue with the Apple TV in our setup-when streaming Pandora and using the ipad2 to surf, you get dropouts-this doesn't happen when listening on the ipad and surfing, only when you send the signal via AirPlay to the receiver. Oh well, I am waiting for the new Denons to see if they will do what I want. I know a previous poster said the old 3311 will send a digital signal to zone 2, but I downloaded the manual for the 2312 (which I am interested in), and it states that things input over HDMI, coax, optical are not output to Zone2, only analog.
Have to wait and see once people get them.

After I posted this I reread your post-I don't have an HDMI receiver, so I can't get the digital signal in the main room, otherwise your suggestion would work for me.
Thanks again
post #332 of 551
Denon's 2011 core line of AV receivers compared

This short article is against the new 1312, 1612, 1712, and 1912 models. None of these are on Denon site yet.
Its interesting what feature sets are present on their lowest priced Denon xx12 AVR's.
post #333 of 551
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnAV View Post

Same price as 4311, $1999 is my guess. You'll have to talk to some of the authorized online dealers by phone to find out what the discounts are.

If so, why would anyone ever buy a 4311 after release of the 4312?
post #334 of 551
Interesting that the 1612 and the 1912 have front USB inputs but the 1712 does not
post #335 of 551
Head scratcher :

1712 - 2 component inputs, 1 component output
1912 - 1 component input


Usually features are added as you work up the chain, no?
post #336 of 551
^ My take is that as you move higher up in AVR quality (and price), you are less likely to be using component video vs HDMI. Same "logic" as why a $200 AVR has S-video support and a $1000 one may very well not. It's a judgment call by the company, obviously some people with mostly HDMI gear may want component something or other, but generally speaking it makes some sense to minimize the older "lower quality" interfaces when building/marketing to a price.
post #337 of 551
Quote:
Same "logic" as why a $200 AVR has S-video support and a $1000 one may very well not.
unfortunately for that "logic", it doesn't actually work that way in practice. More expensive models these days offer MORE legacy support, not less. Compare a $200 Denon (AVR 391 or 591) to a $1000 Denon (AVR 3311) and you will see for yourself.

my educated guess is that the 1712 photos are simply WRONG. Pre-production photos often have weird errors. It makes no sense for the 1612 to have a USB port but the 1712 not.... plus the component video anomaly. I would strongly suggest not jumping to conclusions until the manuals and "official" photos are available on Denon's website.
post #338 of 551
Quote:
Originally Posted by j_thunders View Post
If so, why would anyone ever buy a 4311 after release of the 4312?
Usually its because of larger discounts attained when the dealers are trying to clear out older inventory.
post #339 of 551
Hi:

I am a long Denon fan. Currently own Denon 3808CI and 4306.
I am finishing the basement so looking for a new AV receiver.
Basement will finish in the end of June. So I will need a receiver at that time.
I had my mind made up on Denon 4311CI but I saw the new announcements about new receivers.
How much better is Denon 4312CI going to be? Is it worth it to wait for 3-4 months?

Another option I have been kicking around is to get an external amplifier.
Do Denon 3311 or 3312 have a pre out to make it possible to connect to an external amplifier?
If I want an external amplifier is there any reason to choose 4311 over 3311 or 3312.
I can save money by buying 3311/3312 and get a powerful 5 channel amp and use the av receiver to drive just the rear surround speakers.

Appreciate any suggestions you have.

Thanks
post #340 of 551
^^^

1) who knows? it hasn't even been officially announced yet...

2) yes.

3) yes, the 4311 has features that the others don't have. do you need/want those features? i don't know, that's up to you...
post #341 of 551
Is there any Denon or for that matter any other reciever that will give you 'all' the HD audio options?
post #342 of 551
^^^

unless i'm misunderstanding your question, virtually every avr made today will decode the lossless codecs...

or are you asking something else?
post #343 of 551
I guess I wasn't expecting anything different, but it saddens me that one has to move to a $2000 MSRP receiver in Denon's lineup to get 4 ohm speaker capability.

I don't think this is just due to output/heat issues, which wouldn't bother me. Looking at past bench tests, the damping factor of Denon's Chinese-built receivers is considerably lower than the Japanese-built (4300 and up) models (said otherwise, amplifier output impedance is higher). I've read that EQ can compensate for this, but I don't see how or why this would be true, and my ears wonder why external amps (or even the ~$800, 4-ohm capable Onkyo's) sound clearer with my current speakers even at low volumes. I'd have to agree with the discussion earlier: that modern receivers skip on the amp section, and the results are audible, even if they're not measurable in a standard THD test.

In any event, it's great to see better room EQ and networking come to the mainstream receivers. They're both features I look for.
post #344 of 551
Quote:
Originally Posted by stretchsje View Post
I don't think this is just due to output/heat issues, which wouldn't bother me. Looking at past bench tests, the damping factor of Denon's Chinese-built receivers is considerably lower than the Japanese-built (4300 and up) models (said otherwise, amplifier output impedance is higher).
Where have you found damping factor (or output impedance) measurements for a significant sample set of Denon AVR models?

AJ
post #345 of 551
Quote:
Originally Posted by hehateme View Post
Hi:

How much better is Denon 4312CI going to be? Is it worth it to wait for 3-4 months?


Thanks
Please don't get offended, but how the F we should know? It hasn't been announced yet, not a single picture or specs sheet.

It's really hard to understand the point of posts like yours.


Unless...you want to hear pure speculations. Then here it is:


It will be much better then 4311, because 4312 will be made in China.

It will have one extra HDMI, 5 or 10 more watts per ch, some fancier auddyssey feature, a few pounds lighter, will have airplay and some other new networking options.

In other words, it will blow 4311 out of the water, it will be night and day difference
post #346 of 551
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

unfortunately for that "logic", it doesn't actually work that way in practice. More expensive models these days offer MORE legacy support, not less.

I wasn't actually thinking of Denon AVRs. And being a bit jokey...I was more thinking of the "AVRs" where S-video is the top-of-the-line video input format. They are out there, clearly not the reputable brands (e.g. Denone)...

My "problem" is many more expensive sources (e.g. Oppo) dropped the S-video outputs but kept the composite video. I actually wanted that S-video lol, and occasionally do use S-video AVR inputs for old stuff or odd reasons. Denon reduced the S-video and composite video capabilities/flexibility of the 4310 and 4311 compared to the 3808. (You know that somewhat complicated video chart they have near the back of the manuals? Course you do.) I sold my 4310 and went back to the 3808 partly because of those reduced video capabilities, which I don't actually need now but did a year ago.
post #347 of 551
giedrys,

I am not offended.
I read posts in a forum that talked about features of Denon 4810CI moving down to 4312.
There were other questions in my post too but you fixated on the one question you did know the answer for.
post #348 of 551
Quote:
Originally Posted by WiWavelength View Post

Where have you found damping factor (or output impedance) measurements for a significant sample set of Denon AVR models?

AJ

I haven't found a significant sample set, but Audioholics has a some: the 2308, 4306, 5805, 5808. I thought I had seen a 3xxx series review too which had a DF similar to the 2308, but I can't find it now.

I'm probably on the wrong track looking at damping factors, since I know most say it's rarely a culprit of degraded sound quality. I was just looking for a speculative reason why some receivers seem to sound clearer and more detailed (particularly with the 4 ohm speakers I use at home) despite reasonable bench tests showing low harmonic distortion and a flat response curve.

Regardless, the point is that Denon does not build a receiver under $2k that it recommends for 4 ohm speakers, which I think is disappointing even if it's just the company covering its butt.
post #349 of 551
Check out the review of the 3311 over at Secrets....JEJ has measurements showing exactly what you are talking about.

People that think the amp quality is the same or better in modern receivers under $2k are deluding themselves.
post #350 of 551
Quote:
Originally Posted by rynberg View Post

Check out the review of the 3311 over at Secrets....JEJ has measurements showing exactly what you are talking about.

People that think the amp quality is the same or better in modern receivers under $2k are deluding themselves.

I'm guessing some people along with myself have no idea what you're talking about. Could you give a link?
post #351 of 551
Quote:
Originally Posted by ibuyufo View Post

Could you give a link?

I think he's talking about this article:
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/recei...-receiver.html
post #352 of 551
... but that's for the 3310 not the 3311. I don't see anything about the new 3311 there.
post #353 of 551
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

unfortunately for that "logic", it doesn't actually work that way in practice. More expensive models these days offer MORE legacy support, not less. Compare a $200 Denon (AVR 391 or 591) to a $1000 Denon (AVR 3311) and you will see for yourself.

my educated guess is that the 1712 photos are simply WRONG. Pre-production photos often have weird errors. It makes no sense for the 1612 to have a USB port but the 1712 not.... plus the component video anomaly. I would strongly suggest not jumping to conclusions until the manuals and "official" photos are available on Denon's website.

Nope, they are correct. 1712 is a 7.1 AVR with 2 in/1 out component video switching and no USB port and 2 source/2 zone. 1612 is 5.1 single zone, 1 component video with a USB port.

For low-end CI installs component video switching is a big deal. No HDCP sync problems and legacy support for older TVs. That's the segment the 1712 is serving.
post #354 of 551
FYI... i just got off the phone with the denon rep here in texas and he mentioned that the 1912, 1312, and 1612 started shipping to stores today and that we should see them in stores in the next 2 weeks. However, those listed on the website, mainly the CI models, are not actually scheduled to ship until late may. He said someone running the website must have things goofed up because he was confident with information he had. I'll be waiting for my 1912 to replace my just failed avr-789.
post #355 of 551
Quote:
Originally Posted by jruw831 View Post

FYI... i just got off the phone with the denon rep here in texas and he mentioned that the 1912, 1312, and 1612 started shipping to stores today and that we should see them in stores in the next 2 weeks. However, those listed on the website, mainly the CI models, are not actually scheduled to ship until late may. He said someone running the website must have things goofed up because he was confident with information he had. I'll be waiting for my 1912 to replace my just failed avr-789.

Damn I really want the 2112 but don't feel like waiting. Tempted to just pick up the 1912. I hate being so impatient
post #356 of 551
Quote:
Originally Posted by Puckshaw View Post

Damn I really want the 2112 but don't feel like waiting. Tempted to just pick up the 1912. I hate being so impatient

I want to try out the 2112 or 2312 as well. I was hoping best buy would get them so I could just try it out and see if MultiEQ XT is a big improvement for my system. I talked to the manager at best buy and he said the 1912 will probably be the highest model they get. There is no Magnolia near me so that kind of sucks. I want to be able to return it easily so I might have to roll with Amazon.
post #357 of 551
post #358 of 551
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristopherOne View Post
This suggests the 4312 will be released "later this year"...
http://www.audyssey.com/technology/audyssey-lfc.html
Given the earthquake in Japan and the impact on manufacturing there, the 4312 might not appear until 2012.

... the 43xx series is still made in Japan, every other xx12 model that has been announced thus far is "Made in China".
post #359 of 551
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

From what we've seen so far, it appears the 2312 and 3312 will both feature the more advanced GUI seen on the higher level models with the ability to overlay both a 2D and 3D signal, while the 2112 and lower models will use an improved OSD that will overlay a 2D signal but not a 3D signal.

Hey JD, do you know if the 4311 and 3311 can overlay GUI and volume on a 3D signal. I just upgraded TVs and I never thought about it before.
post #360 of 551
No .. neither can.
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