Official Panasonic GT30 Series Discussion Thread [No Price Talk] - Page 6

Well D-Nice just said the fluctuating brightness is just a bad and annoying as floating blacks on another forum. Other sites experienced similar issues. This tv is now worthless to me.

[Note: I have no stake in this game, and I'm not trying to stir up the "x is better than y" debate - I honestly do not know, which is why I'm asking.]

Let's say that someone had just purchased a new plasma that was used primarily (80%) in pitch black conditions, with the remainder of usage split between small/moderate light in an otherwise dark room (10%) and daylight (10%).

This person had gone through the break-in period (not here to debate that either, so kindly leave it off the table), and was planning on having it professionally calibrated.

Let's further say, for the sake of argument, that this person agreed with (or at least was curious about) your assertion about gammas.

Let's assume that there are 4 modes available for calibration (including 3D). Would a professional calibrator (and please, I'd like to hear from people like Chad, D-Nice, whomever) indulge a request for calibration across multiple gamma ranges? For instance:

• ISF "day" calibrated to 2.2 gamma
• ISF "night" calibrated to 2.4 gamma
• THX calibrated to 2.55 gamma
• 3D mode

What special problems would this introduce to the calibrator, if any?

Thanks!
-Bn

You cannot adjust the gamma in THX mode. ISF-Day and Night can accommodate your request in 2D and 3D.

So buyer's of the GT30 plasma are stuck with bad gamma in THX mode unless they pay to have it professionally calibrated? Is a gamma correction something Panasonic could roll out in a firmware update, not that they likely would? Thanks.

I love how this thread has become about updating us on what is happening in "the other forum".

Ah - my mistake - thank you for the correction.

So, if we were to assume, for the sake of this discussion, that THX mode had a gamma of 2.2 (straying from GT30 for a moment here), you're saying that a calibrator could calibrate the custom ISF modes to 2.4 and 2.55, respectively.

Would you, then, as a professional calibrator, indulge a customer who requested those multiple gamma settings across ISF modes?

Does it introduce any additional complications from a calibration perspective, other than (if I'm on the right path) the calibrator is setting up 6 modes (2D/3D for each of THX, ISF1@2.4 & ISF2@2.55)?

Quite honestly, pneumatic has got me....interested...so I'm trying to understand the pain and suffering that goes into a calibration, comparing and contrasting to the benefits (real or perceived) to viewing.

Thanks!
-Bn

So DNice what's the deal, there's so many conflicting opinions about this TV and its so-called "gamma problems."

What's your verdict? Is this a faulty TV or is it worth getting?

Why would you want a 2.55 gamma in the first place? That does not make sense on a Digital display.

ISF modes are only available on the VT30s.

Again, why would you want 2.55 on a digital display?

pneumatic gamma comments really only relates to analog displays (aka CRTs). There is no set standard for digital displays and I do not know of any competant calibrators that would ever recommend 2.4+ gamma on a digital display. A gamma like that will look very cartoonish.

Show me the conflicting reports and we can talk

I didn't mean conflicting as in, challenging your findings/results. I just mean, some people in this thread are saying it's not a big deal, and some are saying this makes the TV "worthless" and "faulty."

So I'm just wondering if they are correct... Is this something we need to wait on before we purchase a GT30???

I did not mean that either.

They are expressing their opinion. Is it a big deal to me? Yes. Do I think the TV is worthless and faulty? TV worhtless... IMO no. faulty... IMO buggy.

What exactly are you going to wait on? A firmware update from Panasonic? I'm pretty sure they are aware of the problems that have been pointed out. It is now up to them to either classify it as "normal operation", "bugs that will be fixed in a firmware update" or something else. That's their responsibility as a manufacturer of goods.

Whether or not you choose to purchase their products is your responsibility in its current or a hypothetical future form. I am just one tool in that process and it is up to you to figure out what to do next.

I indicated in my first post on this subject that I honestly don't know - I am simply attempting to gain a better understanding.

I appreciate your responses and your clarification about CRT vice PDP.

Here is the truth. There is no standard for gamma with digital display. None. If someone ever tells you that there is, ask them to provide you with official documents that state so. There are two canidates currently being reviewed.... 2.35 and 2.2.

Gamma is not only dependent on room environment. The display also has a role it what you select. If your display has poor dynamic range, contrast, black level, you do not want to use a gamma above 2.3 as dark area detail will look like mud.

Competent calibrators select the gamma target based on room, viewing habits and display capabilities.

That is incorrect. See here:




(1/0.42 = 2.38)

Sources:
http://www.poynton.com/notes/PU-PR-I...n-PU-PR-IS.pdf
http://www.spectracal.com/Documents/...0_2.2or2.4.pdf
http://www.poynton.com/PDFs/Rehabilitation_of_gamma.pdf

Perhaps you need to reread my ENTIRE post. I know exactly what Poynton is explaining. However you DO NOT want that high of a gamma on certain digital displays. Everything is not text book in the field.

I have calibrated samsung C7000's to 2.4 using the 10 point control and the result is perfect. Even without the 10 point control, shadow detail is not a problem - you simply raise the brightness control a couple of clicks till shade 17 is visible.

Ok good luck with that one. If it floats your boat, cool. I would never calibrate a customer' s Samsung C7000 to that gamma target because I know better. Enjoy the picture.

Any word on the release date for the GT30 55"?

You can say whatever you want but the fact remains that films are mastered on 2.4 gamma monitors and that is what you need to see the images as intended. I have all my displays calibrated to 2.4 and the image quality is superb with fully visible shadow detail, excellent midrange and beautiful contrasty highlights, as it was intended to be seen. 2.2 is like a washed out water color painting in comparison.

Some people already have them, more will in the weeks to come.

You're right. I will say what I want. I assure you I would NEVER calibrate a C7000 to 2.4. I guess I'm not as naive as you are. I know what looks best and correct on a C7000 in a dim room and it sure as hell isn't a 2.4 gamma using standard windowed patterns. You would know better if you actually took into consideration how that display functions with dynamic picture content.... hint, hint ABL circuit. I guess you did not evaluate that.

For the record the proper gamma target for the C7000 in a dim/dark environment is 2.3. But what do I know......

Thanks for the evaluation on the GT30 D-Nice, are you planning to do a once over on any of the Samsung's?

Then you are going against Poyntons recommendations and against what studio monitors use.


Based on your comments here I'm guessing you haven't even tried to calibrate the c7000 to 2.4, because if you had you would see the performance is excellent with 2.4.

And yes, I'm well aware the ABL affects gamma. I do not calibrate gamma with the ABL active as that skews the readings for lower APL scenes where the ABL is not active. FYI I use the 16% coverage windows on the AVSHD709 disc. The APL windows are ok too, the result is the same. The full fields however are not ok.

If you say so


Really? I mean, really??? I specifically said I would never leave a client's display set to 2.4 because I know how the picture would be. That means I've been there and done that.


Pay attention. I never said calibrate gamma when the ABL is active. I said evaluate what the ABL circuit does when it is active.

Stop wasting my time with this. I agree to disagree with you on this topic. You are free to continue to calibrate C7000s to 2.4. By no means will I stop you. If you ever want to see how wrong you are, place a 2.4 gamma C7000 next to a reference mastering display as see what it should look like.

Yes.

Can't wait!!

Dont want to sound like a pessimist. But given the history of support and acknowledgement by the manufacturer in 2010, and the current conditions over seas. I wouldnt drop a dime on this set, regardless of "possibly" acquiring a firmware download. Unfortunately, I hope D-Nice received a faulty set. I guess only time will tell. Thanks for the observations, D-Nice.

Do you know when you will be able to calibrate any 59 or 64 inch Samsungs? Thanks.

This is very unlikely, as several other users have reported similar problems I'm really sorry to say.

Well, I think that's because all the news about these tvs is being broken over there.