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Panasonic DT30 impressions? - Page 9

post #241 of 434
At Dark_Planet: I'm looking for a good gaming LCD, but seem to see tons of blur in every one I've tried. The DT30 is supposed to be 240hz (like all 3D LCDs), but I'm guessing this is the "fake" 240hz which is really 120hz with scanning LED backlight.

My question is, can you add blur reduction in the settings without using motion interpolation that gives you the soap-opera effect (and gaming lag)? Some TVs seem to let you control the "blur" or (backlight scanning) level independently from the smoothing.

From the menu pictures you posted it looks like you can only control Motion Picture Pro settings, which I'm guessing is a combo of interpolation and backlight scan?
post #242 of 434
Quote:
Originally Posted by IronEddie View Post

At Dark_Planet: I'm looking for a good gaming LCD, but seem to see tons of blur in every one I've tried. The DT30 is supposed to be 240hz (like all 3D LCDs), but I'm guessing this is the "fake" 240hz which is really 120hz with scanning LED backlight.

My question is, can you add blur reduction in the settings without using motion interpolation that gives you the soap-opera effect (and gaming lag)? Some TVs seem to let you control the "blur" or (backlight scanning) level independently from the smoothing.

From the menu pictures you posted it looks like you can only control Motion Picture Pro settings, which I'm guessing is a combo of interpolation and backlight scan?

No, you cannot tweak blur reduction and motion smoothing individually like you can on Samsung models, although to be perfectly honest it doesn't seem to do a damn thing even on the Sasmungs.

You must be highly sensitive to motion blur on LCDs. Might want to take a look at plasma.
post #243 of 434
Thanks for the reply Tiger. Sorry to hear about the lack of separate blur control. Yeah, I am really sensitive to LCD blur, but only when it comes to games. Played for years on CRTs, and couldn't believe how bad LCDs looked when I tried to switch. Sold a $1300 Samsung 1080p LCD and bought an old Sony 1080i XBR CRT for a fraction of the price. Absolutely love gaming on it.

As for plasma, apparently I'm also sensitive to phosphor trails. However, if they could completely eliminate image retention, I would probably buy one. Not afraid of burn in these days (at least once it's broken in), but don't think I could put up with the IR.

I've just been saving money and waiting for technology to evolve. Apparently, it's not there yet.
post #244 of 434
There's a NEW software update available for the DT30 named 2.060

It's suppose to fix the 10 point controls in the ISF day/night modes and some netflix audio issues.
post #245 of 434
I wish they could fix the issue of Netflix Canada not being available period...
I see 2.040 under panasonic.com and nothing under panasonic.ca . Are you doing this update from the TV online with the network or wifi port or using a flash card or USB key ?
post #246 of 434
Quote:
Originally Posted by flavoie View Post

I wish they could fix the issue of Netflix Canada not being available period...
I see 2.040 under panasonic.com and nothing under panasonic.ca . Are you doing this update from the TV online with the network or wifi port or using a flash card or USB key ?


I used the wifi usb adapter to update it.

But since the newest version is not on any websites yet just plug in an ethernet cable or a usb wifi stick and check for updates.
post #247 of 434
I'm a UK user and our version of this TV doesn't seem to have the wealth of setup options the US version has. It appears the US AI Picture setting has a UK equivalent called local dimming. When set to 'on' this option produces a very good overall image with good blacks. But there is a problem. The dimming extends into the black bars of film content and spoils the overall viewing experience with black bars fluctuating in black levels and even-ness. Can I ask any US users who uses the AI Picture setting, if this causes similar problems with black bars on their TVs?
post #248 of 434
I just ordered a 37" dt30 from amazon. I picked primarily because of the size and good reviews. I need to fit the tv into an armoire with a space that is 40" wide, but only 24" tall. I have a 4 year old 32" sharp aquos in there now, which was the biggest tv I could fit at the time. However, I also see that the 40" samsung un40d6400 and 6500 would also squeeze in. Can someone compare the these tvs and tell me which is the better set of the two in terms of image quality for cable and blu ray (I am not a gamer).

Note: This would be so much easier (and less expensive) if my wife would just let me get rid of that armoire. This tv is for a bedroom btw.
post #249 of 434
Quote:
Originally Posted by andyfuss View Post

I'm a UK user and our version of this TV doesn't seem to have the wealth of setup options the US version has. It appears the US AI Picture setting has a UK equivalent called local dimming. When set to 'on' this option produces a very good overall image with good blacks. But there is a problem. The dimming extends into the black bars of film content and spoils the overall viewing experience with black bars fluctuating in black levels and even-ness. Can I ask any US users who uses the AI Picture setting, if this causes similar problems with black bars on their TVs?

I had asked about the AI/local dimming earlier in the thread. It appears the US model does not do local dimming. The AI mode seems to be an intelligent scene analyser that changes the backlight and contrast over the whole image based on the content. However any backlight dimming appears to be over the whole field. The UK model can dim individually any one of the top or bottom row of LEDs so that if one side of the picture is bright and the other side is dark, it can cater for this.

The downside of the UK implementation is exactly what you said, The black bar could be brighter in one part than another. The US version will still result in the black bars changing in brightness but it will be consistent across the width of the bar.

Pros and cons with both systems in my opinion. The UK version doesn't differ greatly in picture adjustments however you have to enable some features buried in menus that then open up other menus. You can then change things like white balance, gamma, and CMS adjustments with numerical values for each slider.

The main issue however is that the backlight control and contrast control are linked together in the single contrast slider on the UK model. On the US model they are separate controls.

Overall I am happy with the set but when displaying a full white field, the left side is brighter than the right.
post #250 of 434
Quote:
Originally Posted by set2374 View Post

I just ordered a 37" dt30 from amazon. I picked primarily because of the size and good reviews. I need to fit the tv into an armoire with a space that is 40" wide, but only 24" tall. I have a 4 year old 32" sharp aquos in there now, which was the biggest tv I could fit at the time. However, I also see that the 40" samsung un40d6400 and 6500 would also squeeze in. Can someone compare the these tvs and tell me which is the better set of the two in terms of image quality for cable and blu ray (I am not a gamer).

Note: This would be so much easier (and less expensive) if my wife would just let me get rid of that armoire. This tv is for a bedroom btw.

My 37" dt30 arrived yesterday. I had purchased it through amazon warehouse for $750.00. The box had been opened and the stand had been installed, but the tv was otherwise in pristine condition (as described by amazon). The tv still had the factory plastic on its edges. The only issue aim having is that I cannot seem to able to get the tv to log onto my network through wifi. It recognizes the network, but when I use my password I get a message that says unable to connect. I am going to play around with it today to see if I can get this problem resolved.

Networking issues aside, the tv is spectacular. I haven't gotten to deep with calibrating the color, but out the box, this tv looks good-- better than my Sony XBR or Sharp Aquos. There is some very minor light leakage from the bottom that is noticeable in letterboxed programming. This was remedied by turning down the backlighting. Other than that, I don't see any evidence of banding, clouding or blooming, for now, I am extremely pleased with my purchase.
post #251 of 434
How's the sound from the built-in speakers? I'd like to get one of these but I'm concerned about the sound being muffled since the speakers are facing downward and there's not much clearance between the TV and the table.
post #252 of 434
Quote:
Originally Posted by rasmusbraun View Post

How's the sound from the built-in speakers? I'd like to get one of these but I'm concerned about the sound being muffled since the speakers are facing downward and there's not much clearance between the TV and the table.

I guess it's adequate to good. I have a home theater system set up so I don't use the tv's speakers.
post #253 of 434
Thread Starter 
I just wanted to say that I finally bought the 32 inch version of the DT30 and I'm really impressed with it! Before I moved it to my apartment I ran some tests on it at my parent's house to make sure it was good enough to keep.

The first test was to search for dead pixels and I performed that by downloading the "Dead Pixel Locator" by Astris. Thankfully, there weren't any so I moved on to the input lag test.

To perform the input lag test, I used my Vista Ultimate 64-bit computer that has an ATI Radeon 4800 series graphics card set to clone mode with an old Gateway CRT monitor. I was going to use an old ViewSonic A90 CRT but there were some power issues with it turning on.

The one problem I encountered was running the stopwatch programs. The first one I tried was from Flatpanelshd.com and while the rest of the counter worked well, the righter most millisecond counter lagged pretty bad. I then tried downloading the "XNote Stopwatch" with it's free trial and initially, it too was having performance issues running on my computer until I set the program's refresh rate from 100hz to 80hz. This appeared to solve the problem by removing the lag apparent to the naked eye but could still have flawed my experiment.

Before I tested the DT30, I started off with my parent's four year old 46'' Sony Bravia. I had always figured that the TV had about 50ms of lag and I was pretty much right about that. I tested the VGA input in Game mode ten times. This yielded (54, 48, 48, 48, 40, 48, 36, 36, 42, 60) This averages to 46ms.

I then tested the VGA input on the DT30 in Standard mode ten times. This yielded (24, 36, 48, 30, 36, 36, 24, 48, 24, 36). This averages to 34.2ms.

After that, I tested the VGA input on the DT30 in Game mode ten times. This yielded (12, 24, 36, 36, 12, 36, 36, 20, 36, 24). This averages to 27.2 ms.

What reallys seems strange is how most of the results are a factor of 12. This might have to do with my computer's performance issues with the stopwatch program. I'm really not sure. The best I can say is to take these input lag results with a grain of salt.
post #254 of 434
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarmelRob View Post

I just wanted to say that I finally bought the 32 inch version of the DT30 and I'm really impressed with it! Before I moved it to my apartment I ran some tests on it at my parent's house to make sure it was good enough to keep.

The first test was to search for dead pixels and I performed that by downloading the "Dead Pixel Locator" by Astris. Thankfully, there weren't any so I moved on to the input lag test.

To perform the input lag test, I used my Vista Ultimate 64-bit computer that has an ATI Radeon 4800 series graphics card set to clone mode with an old Gateway CRT monitor. I was going to use an old ViewSonic A90 CRT but there were some power issues with it turning on.

The one problem I encountered was running the stopwatch programs. The first one I tried was from Flatpanelshd.com and while the rest of the counter worked well, the righter most millisecond counter lagged pretty bad. I then tried downloading the "XNote Stopwatch" with it's free trial and initially, it too was having performance issues running on my computer until I set the program's refresh rate from 100hz to 80hz. This appeared to solve the problem by removing the lag apparent to the naked eye but could still have flawed my experiment.

Before I tested the DT30, I started off with my parent's four year old 46'' Sony Bravia. I had always figured that the TV had about 50ms of lag and I was pretty much right about that. I tested it ten times. This yielded (54, 48, 48, 48, 40, 48, 36, 36, 42, 60) This averages to 46ms.

I then tested the DT30 in Standard mode ten times. This yielded (24, 36, 48, 30, 36, 36, 24, 48, 24, 36). This averages to 34.2ms.

After that, I tested the DT30 in Game mode ten times. This yielded (12, 24, 36, 36, 12, 36, 36, 20, 36, 24). This averages to 27.2 ms.

What reallys seems strange is how most of the results are a factor of 12. This might have to do with my computer's performance issues with the stopwatch program. I'm really not sure. The best I can say is to take these input lag results with a grain of salt.

I think it's more about how the picture looks and, if your a gamer, whether "you" notice lag. Stats are interesting, but are they a basis for keeping or getting rid of this tv. Also, is there anything better out there in this price range?
post #255 of 434
Thread Starter 
I tell you, as a gamer, I couldn't be happier with the DT30. When I tried playing Battlefield:1943, a first person shooter, I immediately noticed how responsive the TV was in game mode and I simply excelled in the game reaching top place in my team. I've also tried playing with the game mode turned off and it was still pretty responsive(I tested only 7ms difference) while at the same time making the gameplay smooth as silk. I'm probably going to turn the Game mode off when I'm playing single player and turn it on for multiplayer.

On a side note, my favorite default display setting for gaming is "Vivid" with a color temperature of "Normal" so I copied it's values into "Game", although it still doesn't look nearly as breath-taking as "Vivid".

For movies, I've just been sticking with "Cinema".

What's everybody's favorite display setting for gaming and for movies?
post #256 of 434
This TV suffers from clouding and shadowing?
post #257 of 434
Quote:
Originally Posted by jintekken View Post

This TV suffers from clouding and shadowing?


On my set there is NO backlight issues whatsoever.

Panasonic is WAY ahead of most tv makers when it comes to the quality of smaller tv sets.

I don't know why people are so into samsung.

Samsungs are trash.....they have uneven clouding and bright white beams in the corners and flickering issues and yet so many people love them.

If you have the DT30 on a black screen with all the lights off and you walk from the center of the screen to the side the blacklevel starts to look silver.

But that's normal with IPS panels.
post #258 of 434
so you want to say that black is not good and can suffer from too much light?
post #259 of 434
Quote:
Originally Posted by jintekken View Post

so you want to say that black is not good and can suffer from too much light?

No......if your center with the screen the black level is really good.

If your off to the side the whole screen becomes silverish.
post #260 of 434
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark_Planet View Post

No......if your center with the screen the black level is really good.

If your off to the side the whole screen becomes silverish.

So you mean that if I move slightly to the sides black turns to gray?
post #261 of 434
Quote:
Originally Posted by jintekken View Post

So you mean that if I move slightly to the sides black turns to gray?

Yep.
post #262 of 434
you can post some pictures?
post #263 of 434
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark_Planet View Post

No......if your center with the screen the black level is really good.

If your off to the side the whole screen becomes silverish.

I assume that's due to IPS glow.
post #264 of 434
Quote:
Originally Posted by jintekken View Post

This TV suffers from clouding and shadowing?

IPS panels do not suffer from clouding, flashlighting can occur but its very rare and would be easily fixed buy adjusting the TV's cabinet screws more than likely.

the flashlight/clouding issues that have mainly plagued samsung and sony TV's that have S-LCD panels in them (same panels as samsungs) are VA type screens VA type LCDs have an exact opposite LC alignment when closed than IPS any small variance in LCD thickness or slight amount of pressure put on the screen at the edges on a VA screens causes the LC's open slightly and let light come out.

one cool thing about this aspect however is you can easily tell in a store what type of LCD panel a TV uses just by tapping on it lightly when a darker image is displayed. IPS screens will only show a very localized light halo around where you tap, VA panels will have dramatic light halos appear around where you tap, go to a store and give it a try its fun

as a tip Panasonic LG and some Vizio's use IPS

pretty much everyone else uses VA panels of some sort.
post #265 of 434
oh to the guy earlier in this thread having text issues in windows. its not an isolated problem with your DT30. my 37S1 with an IPS-A panel has the same issues. i use it as a main PC monitor, with a combination of the right picture settings and service menu settings i was able to make 95% of text i encounter on websites etc. perfectly readable. out of the box new my set was not this way however.

i probably cant help you too much as our models are quite different and 2 model years apart but basically all i did was find other peoples calibrated settings used them and tweaked slightly until it looked good. the service menu will at least on my model only help with adjusting the white balance but if i recall red is out of the box excessive on these panels and that is part of the problem with the blurry colored text.
post #266 of 434
been saying that sony suffers from clouding the most, compared to LED panasonic?

panasonic DT30 but suffers from too much light on the black?

You can post photos?
post #267 of 434
Quote:
Originally Posted by jintekken View Post

been saying that sony suffers from clouding the most, compared to LED panasonic?

panasonic DT30 but suffers from too much light on the black?

You can post photos?


Depending how you like your settings, I have the CATS and AI turned on. My brightness level is 38, the glow appears according to what kind of scene is shown. In my opinion the glow is more visible with certain scenes, particularly scenes with more back ground light. This might be a little too dark for some, but pushing the back light over 80 may help. I usually watch the tv with the lights out.

Custom

Back light 23

Contrast 52

Bright 37

Color 25

Tint 0

Sharpness 20
post #268 of 434
thanks,

but about the clouding, suffers more the Sony NX series or Panasonic DT30?

I suggested that TV between them?
post #269 of 434
Quote:
Originally Posted by jintekken View Post

thanks,

but about the clouding, suffers more the Sony NX series or Panasonic DT30?

I suggested that TV between them?

Like I said before.....there is NO clouding or backlight bleeding on my DT30.

Look at the reviews even.

The silver screen at an angle is a different thing and is normal with IPS panels.

http://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-VIER...9422288&sr=8-1
post #270 of 434
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