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DIY subs - coming from dts-10 - 3k+ budget

post #1 of 103
Thread Starter 
Hey guys,

I am about to try to sell my DTS-10 (finished from danley) or return it. I bought it based on fan-boys and did not do my research. I was either going to sell the finished (fiberglassed, I believe) DTS-10 and get 2x DTS-10 DIY kits, but then I got to thinking, why not ask my AVS family!

After I sell the DTS-10 (not sure for what price :/) - plus some extra cash I had left over from my budget klipsch reference series build - I should have around 3k (could go lower/higher depending)

I want to get your ideas on the highest SPL.

I had a meyer sub for testing (650r2) (http://www.meyersound.com/products/l...ifications.htm)

I understand this is not a home-theater sub, so the frequency response sucked, but for what it did respond to, I thought the output was also not where I wanted it to be.

I am in an all concrete room, that's 14 feet wide, 20 feet long, and 10 feet tall. (14*20*10 = 2800). The room currently has an unfilled door (about 7 feet wide) - that could be causing my problem, but from hearing others saying these subs sounds intense outside, just didn't do it for me.

So there you have it, room dimensions, budget, and my ole dts-10.

Specs of current setup:
JVC x3 on a 160" screen (love it, good recommendation!)
klipsch rf-82s, rc5, rs3's - onkyo tx-sr875 and a behringer ep4000 (subwoofer out on onkyo into behringer, copper pair or speakon to sub)

Thanks!
post #2 of 103
You haven't really supplied much info. What specifically didn't you like? Do you have any measurement capability? What are your expectations? Are you sure you can get the full output of the 4000 with the Onkyo? I had to use a line level shifter to get enough.

I have a single DTS in a similar room, sealed and treated. I can easiy hit 120dB 13 feet away.

With Danley once again offering the DIY DTS-10 kit, you may have trouble getting much more than the price of the kit.
post #3 of 103
Thread Starter 
Hey Wrager, thanks for the quick response!

I didn't like the spl, and the sub started sounding terrible (crackling, popping) way before 100db. Ep4000 is set in bridged mode (tried with another amp as well, qsc 2000) and speakers wired inverted (goes in the same direction, but are facing different ways, obviously)

I got a cleanbox between the subwoofer and the onkyo going from rca subwoofer out, to xlr in the ep4000 through the cleanbox.

Using a radioshack meter, getting 110db (sounding awful) about 3 feet away from the mouth. I am not sure I can get the full output, but is DOES actively clip.

I have a feeling I won't be able to sell it for much either. Debating ordering a DIY kit and see if it is the same - if I have two terrible subs, that'd not be good.

I want more spl, it's just hardly hitting.

-Brandon
post #4 of 103
Sounds like some room acoustics issues...
post #5 of 103
I agree with the others. I have no crackling or popping noises could be something with the amp or signal chain? Fan-boys? There are many great subwoofers out there but, a different one may not solve your issues.
post #6 of 103
Thread Starter 
I completely agree - I am not saying it's a bad sub, just satying I've tried a new amp, hooked direct to an ipod then crossover, no crossover. It could be the room acoustics - it's an open basement that is getting drywalled soon, and closed off, maybe that will help

I want to be a fan-boy because all the positive people but maybe another sub is what I need.

-Brandon
post #7 of 103
3 feet from the mouth you should be getting more than 110 db. Various points in my 4000+ cubic foot room with concrete floors I'm getting over 120 db depending on the frequency. I can max my spl meter at the mouth. If you're getting crackling at 100 db there's something going on inside and I'm almost guessing the polarity is off. Easy way to test this is get a 9v battery and put the speaker wire to it. Look at both the drivers and make sure they're moving the same direction. Both in or both out. Check that first then report back.
post #8 of 103
I read here that the Cleanbox starts rolling off the bass at 30 Hz, but it still sounds like something else is wrong.

When you say you get 110 dB, is that at a particular freq (which?), or overall?
post #9 of 103
definitely sounds like an issue with something other than the dts-10.
post #10 of 103
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

I read here that the Cleanbox starts rolling off the bass at 30 Hz, but it still sounds like something else is wrong.

When you say you get 110 dB, is that at a particular freq (which?), or overall?

Just overall. I turned on "double bass" on the onkyo, and the level did go up - but the rattling/popping is still really bad, without clipping the amp. I think it could be something lose inside, but it's completely sealed (fiberglass) besides the 4 danley panels.

If I hook up one speaker individually, the other speaker is still bouncing around noticeably (to where I cannot tell which one is hooked in, if I had to guess). I only have one speaker plugged in, the other terminal is completely bare (no wires going to it for this test) - is that normal because of the closeness of the horns and design of the cabinet? Just wondering.

Thanks again guys, I still have hope in the dts-10, just doing my fair share of messing around with it. DIY kit would have been so much better :/
post #11 of 103
You've got more experience helping than I, but I'll share my experience.

I originally bought one kit for my 6000cf room. Was left wondering what I'll the fuss was about, so I bought a second kit. Still unimpressed. I lived with it for months and months and was embarassed that I had these huge boxes that were not outperforming SVS subs that friends had.

At the time, my room was under construction, and I've had several steps along the way that have each improved performance. There was a noted improvement when I sheetrocked and insulated the walls. Then again when I put cabinetry and acoustic treatment in the rear of my room. Now, I've finally gotten around to EQ (of a random sort for now) and it's jumped the performance up yet again. I didn't see you mention EQ in your setup?

My impression of these subs today compared to 8-10 months ago when I bought them, is completely different.

Sounds like you're aware, but my eyes have been opened to all the various elements to a "base system" that don't have to do with the subwoofer at all. Not saying this is you, but I bet there are lots of folks that aren't "Subwoofer Hobbiests" that jumped in thinking this unit was as easy as plugging it in and letting her rip.

To support others comments, I too can hit 120db at the LP. And I think the bad noises point to something....Not only can I hit those SPL's, but I have never in a years use had an awkward noise or amp clip (ep4000).
post #12 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by bkruse View Post

Hey Wrager, thanks for the quick response!

I didn't like the spl, and the sub started sounding terrible (crackling, popping) way before 100db. Ep4000 is set in bridged mode (tried with another amp as well, qsc 2000) and speakers wired inverted (goes in the same direction, but are facing different ways, obviously)

That would not be a normal operation. Did you contact Danley since its a full warranty, full price product??? You should figure out the problem before making conclusions.


Quote:


I got a cleanbox between the subwoofer and the onkyo going from rca subwoofer out, to xlr in the ep4000 through the cleanbox.

A un-modded Cleanbox has a hard wired Sub Sonic filter @ 18Hz. You are removing all bass below 20Hz. This isnt part of your problem but you should know what the cleanbox does.
post #13 of 103
Don't have a DTS-10, but I see nothing but praise.

I agree with Penn. Call Danley and figure out what's happening. I think once you get rid of the bugs, EQ, placement, etc, you should be very surprised.
post #14 of 103
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by vitod View Post

Don't have a DTS-10, but I see nothing but praise.

I agree with Penn. Call Danley and figure out what's happening. I think once you get rid of the bugs, EQ, placement, etc, you should be very surprised.


Just talked to Danley - I think it may be a bad upper driver, so they are sending me a new one, and I can send the old one back. This will allow for some good testing. Thanks! I'll keep you guys updated, If the upper driver wasn't functioning properly, that could definitely be the reason, they said.
post #15 of 103
Good news! If it was that, then that'll be an easy fix. Keep us posted.
post #16 of 103
Thread Starter 
After pulling the driver out, I am confident that is the problem!




New one should be able to fix that one right up! Curious to see how the 2x th115s compare to the dts-10 (or 2x dts-10s) on a concrete floor
post #17 of 103
post #18 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by bkruse View Post
After pulling the driver out, I am confident that is the problem!




New one should be able to fix that one right up! Curious to see how the 2x th115s compare to the dts-10 (or 2x dts-10s) on a concrete floor
That is an interesting failure. I have never seen that one before. It would case quite a reduction in you bass.

There is no comparisom between the Th115 and the DTS10. In either direction.

Above 40Hzish-the TH115's will wipe the floor with the DTS10. Down low the DTS10 will be singing alone just fine and the TH115's will be out of gas gasping for air.

Is it not "better", but better for an intended purpose-that is why you choose one over the other.
post #19 of 103
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivan Beaver View Post

That is an interesting failure. I have never seen that one before. It would case quite a reduction in you bass.

There is no comparisom between the Th115 and the DTS10. In either direction.

Above 40Hzish-the TH115's will wipe the floor with the DTS10. Down low the DTS10 will be singing alone just fine and the TH115's will be out of gas gasping for air.

Is it not "better", but better for an intended purpose-that is why you choose one over the other.

Hey Ivan,

I know - it was a weird failure, and as you know, always had output problems with the sub. Would it be possible to blend the th115s and the dts-10s (if I got another one?) Chad seemed to think they would play well together if you can set them up correctly. Now that's some headroom!

I ordered another one yesterday from Chad at Danley - and will send back the other one (didn't know it was damaged until last night)

Thanks,

-Brandon
post #20 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by bkruse View Post

Hey Ivan,

I know - it was a weird failure, and as you know, always had output problems with the sub. Would it be possible to blend the th115s and the dts-10s (if I got another one?) Chad seemed to think they would play well together if you can set them up correctly. Now that's some headroom!

I ordered another one yesterday from Chad at Danley - and will send back the other one (didn't know it was damaged until last night)

Thanks,

-Brandon

It would take a number of DTS10's to keep up with a single TH115 (operating in its intended freq range).

While they could be "blended" at a certain seat-how well across a rnage of seats is unknown. It would also take some skill and tools (measurement tools-amplitude and phase) to be able to "mate them up" properly. It would be combination of crossover filters, delay time, eq and so forth. And would best be done in the intended room.
post #21 of 103
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivan Beaver View Post

It would take a number of DTS10's to keep up with a single TH115 (operating in its intended freq range).

While they could be "blended" at a certain seat-how well across a rnage of seats is unknown. It would also take some skill and tools (measurement tools-amplitude and phase) to be able to "mate them up" properly. It would be combination of crossover filters, delay time, eq and so forth. And would best be done in the intended room.

Hey Ivan, I may just grab the th115s (2 for $2,000) and sell the dts-10 then. I think I am more in love with the power than the ability to go low. I know I probably couldn't "mate" them together myself :/
post #22 of 103
Thread Starter 
I just hooked up my memphis pr15d (250 watt rms, 93db sensitivity) inside a car audio single port box, and it's at least 2x as loud as the danley - I really hope the sub was the issue!
post #23 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by bkruse View Post

I really hope the sub was the issue!

There's no question of it. You had major air leaking right through the surround... no way could it get to its full potential that way.

Wait and see what the replacement driver does for you before deciding on something else, would be my advice. No point spending money you may not have to. You'll gain significantly more output when it's working properly.
post #24 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by bkruse View Post

I just hooked up my memphis pr15d (250 watt rms, 93db sensitivity) inside a car audio single port box, and it's at least 2x as loud as the danley - I really hope the sub was the issue!

Be VERY careful that you hook up the driver to the proper wires as it came out. On one driver the hot wire is hooked to the RED terminal, on the OTHER driver the hot wire is hooked to the BLACK terminal.

If you hook it up wrong you will get very little sound out of it.
post #25 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray View Post

That would not be a normal operation. Did you contact Danley since its a full warranty, full price product??? You should figure out the problem before making conclusions.




A un-modded Cleanbox has a hard wired Sub Sonic filter @ 18Hz. You are removing all bass below 20Hz. This isnt part of your problem but you should know what the cleanbox does.

I have 4 clean boxes 2 modded and 2 not modded. If there is in fact a hard wired filter @ 18hz it doesn't work very well because I can still get 120 db's with my 2 big ported monsters @15hz in room with test tones with the un-modded cleanbox hooked up. The modded box will yield 123 at same levels.
post #26 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post

I have 4 clean boxes 2 modded and 2 not modded. If there is in fact a hard wired filter @ 18hz it doesn't work very well because I can still get 120 db's with my 2 big ported monsters @15hz in room with test tones with the un-modded cleanbox hooked up. The modded box will yield 123 at same levels.

Depends on how steep that filter is. Dropping 3 db from your modded to your unmodded could easily just be a slower roll off going down only 3 hz.
post #27 of 103
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivan Beaver View Post

Be VERY careful that you hook up the driver to the proper wires as it came out. On one driver the hot wire is hooked to the RED terminal, on the OTHER driver the hot wire is hooked to the BLACK terminal.

If you hook it up wrong you will get very little sound out of it.

Just got the replacement DTS-10 driver in. Going to put it in now.

From the ep4000, bridged, there is a + and - in bridged mode (the two red terminals, that are labeled + and + if it was in stereo mode)

From the + of the ep4000, to the red on Dts1, and black on dts 2

From the other terminal, - on the ep4000, to the black on dts1 and red on dts 2

Is that correct?
post #28 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by bkruse View Post

Just got the replacement DTS-10 driver in. Going to put it in now.

From the ep4000, bridged, there is a + and - in bridged mode (the two red terminals, that are labeled + and + if it was in stereo mode)

From the + of the ep4000, to the red on Dts1, and black on dts 2

From the other terminal, - on the ep4000, to the black on dts1 and red on dts 2

Is that correct?

What is dts1 and dts2? If you are refering to the speakon connectors they are labele 1 +/- and 2+/-. 2 +/- is NOT used in the factory wiring-only pin 1 +/-.

Make SURE you do not have any filters engaged on your amp-a pretty common problem with low output bass
post #29 of 103
Apparently I've missed something here; where may one purchase 2 TH-115 subs for $2K?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bkruse View Post

Hey Ivan, I may just grab the th115s (2 for $2,000) and sell the dts-10 then. I think I am more in love with the power than the ability to go low. I know I probably couldn't "mate" them together myself :/
post #30 of 103
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 04FLHRCI View Post

Apparently I've missed something here; where may one purchase 2 TH-115 subs for $2K?

One time thing - local friend
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