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Does your 2011 Samsung "D" plasma have brightness pops? - Page 74

post #2191 of 2249
Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle_2 View Post

I am so frustrated by the very noticeable brightness pops that I am almost certainly trading in my set this spring for a Panasonic plasma instead. Samsung has lost my business. The brightness pops are incredibly annoying to me, and I have already updated to 1015, unaware that this would wreck my chances of installing the supposed fix (without going into the service menu which invalidates the Samsung warranty).

So if I want to apply the logic update at this point, my options are:

1. use the method described elsewhere which allows downgrading, but requires access to the service menu which violates the warranty agreement

2. call Samsung and demand a service call for them to apply the logic update, and argue with them because they won't want to do this

Is this correct?

(or 3. Trade it in for a Panasonic 2012 model)

After reading this , I'm reconsidering my already placed order on a PN59D8000. How can sets this expensive , where picture quality is obviously of tantamount importance to the buyers , have such glaring problems, and even worse, why aren't those problems being properly addressed?
post #2192 of 2249
Well I just got off the phone with Best Buy, since I bought their extended warranty coverage. I wanted to know what, if anything, they could do in this situation. They told me they would replace the motherboard and logic board and see if that fixes the issue, hoping the new parts would carry the brightness pop fix. If it doesn't fix the issue, and if Samsung still won't offer a fix, then they would see about maybe getting a replacement (another model?).

So I'm wondering now - if Best Buy orders a new board and replaces it themselves, is it possible the replacement boards will:

1) contain the new fix

or

2) will reset my updates so I can now use the 1014.6 fix

If not, then it will not have any effect on the brightness pops. Does anybody know how likely it is that a replacement board ordered by Best Buy would have the fix?
post #2193 of 2249
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikediamond View Post

After reading this , I'm reconsidering my already placed order on a PN59D8000. How can sets this expensive , where picture quality is obviously of tantamount importance to the buyers , have such glaring problems, and even worse, why aren't those problems being properly addressed?

Personally I'd cancel your order if you can. I own a 64D7000, and I really, really wish I could just swap it out (and pay the difference) for the upcoming Panasonic P65ST50. My dad just got the P50ST50, and after I helped him set it up, I was pretty blown away by the picture quality. I didn't see any issues, that seemed to of been glaring problems for both Samsung and Panasonic in 2011. It just seems like it was a bad year for Plasma TV's.
post #2194 of 2249
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlasHBurN View Post

Personally I'd cancel your order if you can. I own a 64D7000, and I really, really wish I could just swap it out (and pay the difference) for the upcoming Panasonic P65ST50. My dad just got the P50ST50, and after I helped him set it up, I was pretty blown away by the picture quality. I didn't see any issues, that seemed to of been glaring problems for both Samsung and Panasonic in 2011. It just seems like it was a bad year for Plasma TV's.

yeah, i'll look into it, but I was hoping for the Samsung , because we do a lot of daytime viewing and its supposed to be better than the Panasonic in bright rooms? are the 2012 Panasonics brighter (better in sunny rooms)?
post #2195 of 2249
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikediamond View Post

yeah, i'll look into it, but I was hoping for the Samsung , because we do a lot of daytime viewing and its supposed to be better than the Panasonic in bright rooms? are the 2012 Panasonics brighter (better in sunny rooms)?

Yeah, they are being reported as being brighter than last years model. FWIW my dad's setup has a lot of direct light almost 50% of the room is windows, and so far he loves this TV. His previous TV was a RP LED that had a ton of glare in that room, it made it unwatchable during the daytime. However the ST50 is great during the daytime, it isn't 100% glarefree, but its so minute, that combined with the bright display, it's negligible.

Anyway, I don't want to derail this thread anymore, but check out the ST50 thread here, lots of good info.
post #2196 of 2249
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikediamond View Post

Samsung is NOT sending USB sticks upon request anymore to fix the brightness pops??? really? why not? And if that IS the case, shouldn't it be easy for someone to post the files on their usb stick and for people to just copy that firmware (because that firmware is only available by mail, not on Samsung website)?

I should have said that I'm not certain about the USB stoppage, but I have seen one or two people recently saying they no longer acknowledge the fix. Follow the link I posted to zoyd's thread, ALL of the firmwares Samsung sent out are available to download and there is even a backup method if the firmware fails to install completely.
post #2197 of 2249
Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle_2 View Post

Well I just got off the phone with Best Buy, since I bought their extended warranty coverage. I wanted to know what, if anything, they could do in this situation. They told me they would replace the motherboard and logic board and see if that fixes the issue, hoping the new parts would carry the brightness pop fix. If it doesn't fix the issue, and if Samsung still won't offer a fix, then they would see about maybe getting a replacement (another model?).

So I'm wondering now - if Best Buy orders a new board and replaces it themselves, is it possible the replacement boards will:

1) contain the new fix

or

2) will reset my updates so I can now use the 1014.6 fix

If not, then it will not have any effect on the brightness pops. Does anybody know how likely it is that a replacement board ordered by Best Buy would have the fix?

Not sure, but I wouldn't count on it. A few points:

1. You might get a main board with old firmware (I got one 2 months ago that had very old firmware) which would then allow you to install the 1014.6 "fix" firmware.
2. I don't think they can replace your logic board without a full panel replacement.
3. There is NO SUCH THING AS A DOWNGRADE, they were rumored but Samsung never sent them.
4. The firmware "fix" does not always fully install. If it fails, you can still apply the "fix" via the service menu procedure on Zoyd's thread (regardless of what version firmware you currently have installed).
5. The "fix" seems to be pretty effective overall, but some people continue to have pops.
post #2198 of 2249
Quote:
Originally Posted by AvidHiker View Post

Not sure, but I wouldn't count on it. A few points:

1. You might get a main board with old firmware (I got one 2 months ago that had very old firmware) which would then allow you to install the 1014.6 "fix" firmware.
2. I don't think they can replace your logic board without a full panel replacement.
3. There is NO SUCH THING AS A DOWNGRADE, they were rumored but Samsung never sent them.
4. The firmware "fix" does not always fully install. If it fails, you can still apply the "fix" via the service menu procedure on Zoyd's thread (regardless of what version firmware you currently have installed).
5. The "fix" seems to be pretty effective overall, but some people continue to have pops.

right. please correct me if I'm wrong about what I'm explaining below, but from what I've been reading :

It seems at this point , there is a solid fix for MOST people for the brightness pops - here are the steps

1. install the firmware update that samsung sends in the mail through USB stick --version 1024.8 for the D8000 -- not available on Samsung's site, only though mail! - (also available on Zoyd's thread).

other models:

D8000 FW 1024.8 (1024.8 alternate) (thanks TiVOHD)
D7000,6900,6500 FW 1014.6 (thanks muffinmcfluffin)
D550 FW 1019.5

2. make sure while the firmware update is installing it shows a step that says "OPTIMIZING SYSTEM" - like it shows in this picture: http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c7...202_233254.jpg - if it says "optimizing" and goes through that step, you are done, your brightness pops should be gone!

3 . if the optimizing screen did not appear, it is likely your brightness pops were not fixed (because the firmware on your logic board did not "play well" with the 1024.8, etc. firmware update, that causes it to skips that crucial "optimizing" step.

4. (before you move on to this next step, you can check your logic version to see if the logic firmware needs updating - the upgraded dates are in zoyd's first post. - thanks Avidhiker) if that is the case, you need to update your logic board firmware first , instructions on zoyd's FBr link: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1389562

and that method should finally fix it!

therefore , am I correct in concluding the brightness pops problem is completely FIXED for the vast majority of people who use one of these two methods?
post #2199 of 2249
I just upgraded to firmware 1026. Anyone know if it fixes this issue or what was addressed?
post #2200 of 2249
Quote:
Originally Posted by pkonold View Post

I just upgraded to firmware 1026. Anyone know if it fixes this issue or what was addressed?

I'm pretty sure it does not. You need the 1024.8 firmware for that (even though the version number is older)

correction: the 1024.8 only applies to the D8000, what is your set's model number?
post #2201 of 2249
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikediamond View Post

...therefore , am I correct in concluding the brightness pops problem is completely FIXED for the vast majority of people who use one of these two methods?

Yes, seems most people have very few problems afterwards. I have still found the occasional pop after installing 1014.6 for my 59D7000, but it is MUCH better than before. I have watched some problem material that still pops a bit, but they can be managed with one or more of the following adjustments:

Enable cinema smooth
Reduce cell light one or two clicks
Increase gamma 1 click (might need to readjust your brightness afterwards)

Also note: Some people reported not seeing the Optimization message but still received the update. Before trying the emulator method, you can check your logic version to see if the logic firmware is new - the upgraded dates are in zoyd's first post.
post #2202 of 2249
Quote:
Originally Posted by AvidHiker View Post

Yes, seems most people have very few problems afterwards. I have still found the occasional pop after installing 1014.6 for my 59D7000, but it is MUCH better than before. I have watched some problem material that still pops a bit, but they can be managed with one or more of the following adjustments:

Enable cinema smooth
Reduce cell light one or two clicks
Increase gamma 1 click (might need to readjust your brightness afterwards)

Also note: Some people reported not seeing the Optimization message but still received the update. Before trying the emulator method, you can check your logic version to see if the logic firmware is new - the upgraded dates are in zoyd's first post.

ok cool.

did your 1014.6 firmware give you the optimization message?
post #2203 of 2249
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikediamond View Post


I'm pretty sure it does not. You need the 1024.8 firmware for that (even though the version number is older)

correction: the 1024.8 only applies to the D8000, what is your set's model number?

I have the 59D8000. I'm not really seeing much popping so I'm not to worried about it now. It just would be nice to know if 1026 fixed the problem so I don't deal with it later.
post #2204 of 2249
Quote:
Originally Posted by pkonold View Post

I have the 59D8000. I'm not really seeing much popping so I'm not to worried about it now. It just would be nice to know if 1026 fixed the problem so I don't deal with it later.

from what i've read, the 1026 wouldn't have fixed the brightness pops. but since you aren't seeing them much to begin with, i wouldnt worry about it -- plenty of people don't have the problem to begin with (or don't really notice it enough to mind it)
post #2205 of 2249
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikediamond View Post

ok cool.

did your 1014.6 firmware give you the optimization message?

Yes, it did. The TV will install the firmware, turn itself off, then back on. There was maybe a 10 second delay (do not touch anything!), then the Optimization message appeared and that process took a minute or less.
post #2206 of 2249
Quote:
Originally Posted by AvidHiker View Post

Yes, it did. The TV will install the firmware, turn itself off, then back on. There was maybe a 10 second delay (do not touch anything!), then the Optimization message appeared and that process took a minute or less.

and even then, you STILL have brightness pops (decreased, but not totally eliminated)? that is disappointing.
post #2207 of 2249
I describe the effect of the update in the FBr thread, it changes the black level rise from an abrupt one ("pop") to a gradual one, making it less noticeable.
post #2208 of 2249
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

I describe the effect of the update in the FBr thread, it changes the black level rise from an abrupt one ("pop") to a gradual one, making it less noticeable.

Ok, but is there any way to keep the black level constant? I've read that enabling cinema smooth mode possibly does this? or am I mistaken? and is that only for 24p content , or can it be used for normal HD (directv) viewing?
post #2209 of 2249
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikediamond View Post

Ok, but is there any way to keep the black level constant? I've read that enabling cinema smooth mode possibly does this? or am I mistaken? and is that only for 24p content , or can it be used for normal HD (directv) viewing?


cinema smooth raises the black level so it will mask the effect even further but won't eliminate it, there is no way to eliminate it. cinema smooth can only be used with 24Hz input.
post #2210 of 2249
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

cinema smooth raises the black level so it will mask the effect even further but won't eliminate it, there is no way to eliminate it. cinema smooth can only be used with 24Hz input.

this type of floating blacks "technology" -- was it only introduced in 2011, or did it exist before then, and do the 2012 samsung and panasonic plasmas also have it?
post #2211 of 2249
I don't know the history on Samsungs but in 2011 they allowed some black float with APL and I suspect it will be the same for 2012. In 2010, Panasonic allowed black to float with time and fixed that for 2011 and from early reports on the ST50 it is also stable for 2012.
post #2212 of 2249
Why do these companies - Samsung, Panasonic, and Sony ( my sony LCD has fluctuating black levels as well) - think its perfectly OK for a TV to suddenly start adjusting black levels on the fly, depending on how bright or dark a scene is.


I , for one, don't believe (with current technology) that a TV can be possibly smart enough to analyze a scene in a movie and then adjust if the scene needs to be darker or lighter automatically, on the fly, during a given scene.


that just seems totally crazy to me, that they would even come up with a system like that.
post #2213 of 2249
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikediamond View Post

W

I , for one, don't believe (with current technology) that a TV can be possibly smart enough to analyze a scene in a movie and then adjust if the scene needs to be darker or lighter automatically, on the fly, during a given scene.

Very easy to do, that's what the whole dynamic contrast system is built on. There is a separate chip that does this, it's not done in the main processor. There is also a low level dynamic contrast going on which the user can't disable and that is built into the panel drivers, all of this has been around for years.
post #2214 of 2249
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikediamond View Post

and even then, you STILL have brightness pops (decreased, but not totally eliminated)? that is disappointing.

Rarely, and as zoyd mentioned, most have been smoothed out and are no longer noticable. But I still find the occasional sudden shift, mostly smaller "pops". I have a concert bluray that was nearly unwatchable before the fix, now it's completely pop free.
post #2215 of 2249
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

Very easy to do, that's what the whole dynamic contrast system is built on. There is a separate chip that does this, it's not done in the main processor. There is also a low level dynamic contrast going on which the user can't disable and that is built into the panel drivers, all of this has been around for years.

I'm questioning the logic behind TV manufacturer's dynamic contrast algorithm dictating how bright the scene looks, like rather than how the director of the film intended it to look.

Be it gradual or sudden, I'm pretty the director never ended for the black level to be changing in the middle of a scene.
post #2216 of 2249
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikediamond View Post

I'm questioning the logic behind TV manufacturer's dynamic contrast algorithm dictating how bright the scene looks, like rather than how the director of the film intended it to look.

Be it gradual or sudden, I'm pretty the director never ended for the black level to be changing in the middle of a scene.

no argument here, samsung does not care about film directors - they are driven by profit. Part of that calculation includes picture quality but only as far as it will sell more TVs.
post #2217 of 2249
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

no argument here, samsung does not care about film directors - they are driven by profit. Part of that calculation includes picture quality but only as far as it will sell more TVs.

yep, in this case fluctuating blacks so they can use darker blacks as a selling point
post #2218 of 2249
[quote=TiVoHD;21537814]I uploaded 1024.8 for any D8000 owners who haven't received it yet. I obviously take no responsibility for it. Update at your own risk.

http://www.filedropper.com/t-gap8akuc


The file doesn't seem to be there. Is there something I have to do to get at it???
post #2219 of 2249
Should we be applying the new 1026 f/w upgrade if we have already upgraded to 102.8? If we do will it affect the results we got from the 102.8? That upgrade took care of my f /br and I dont want it to return. Will future upgrades affect positive results and therfore always declining upgrades the way to go?
post #2220 of 2249
Quote:
Originally Posted by miannone View Post

Should we be applying the new 1026 f/w upgrade if we have already upgraded to 1024.8? If we do will it affect the results we got from the 1024.8? That upgrade took care of my f /br and I dont want it to return. Will future upgrades affect positive results and therfore always declining upgrades the way to go?

Sorry I meant 1024.8
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