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Does your 2011 Samsung "D" plasma have brightness pops? - Page 14

post #391 of 2252
10/11/11 at 11:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frichard View Post

Exactly for the first part of your question but I don't know much about HTPC! There could be a setting on you're card or on the player you use to output 24 Hz. But you can check on the TV what signal it is receiving.


Yeah, there's a whole bunch of issues surrounding sending a 24p signal out of an HTPC, they have sync issues and stutters and I just figured it was easier to leave it alone and let the card send out 60hz...stopped following the threads months ago.
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post #392 of 2252
10/11/11 at 1:24pm
There must be a lot of people who either don't notice this problem or don't have the problem. I see so many 5 star ratings on other sites and I ahve only seen one review by a customer who mentioned this issue. I sure hope I don't have it or that Samsung fixes it for everyone soon. Maybe not enough people are complaining about it, judging by all the 5 star reviews.
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post #393 of 2252
10/11/11 at 1:26pm
i guess it depends on what setting everyone has and what they're watching.
Some may notice it, some may not. But i have a feeling it lies in all Samsung Plasma TV's.
I at first didn't notice it for a month, then began to see it.
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post #394 of 2252
10/11/11 at 1:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinNash View Post

Can I install it on french european model ?

I also would like to know if we can install firmware from other country website?
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post #395 of 2252
10/11/11 at 11:47pm
Well I've got good news and bad news. The good news is that I've figured out what causes the brightness pops and how to prevent them.

There is a great indoor scene on the latest episode of boardwalk empire that causes a ton of the brightness pops/fluctuations. I did testing for a couple days can say definitively that there are only three settings that have any effect on whether or not they occur:

Brightness
Contrast
Gamma

Basically what seems to be happening is that tv will try and produce the best contrast on any given scene. The problem is that instead of doing it gradually it does it very fast which can cause a jarring fluctuation or pop. The key to prevent it from happening is to reduce the overall brightness so that the threshold isn't reached when the tv tries to readjust the brightness mid scene.

You can be accomplish this by reducing those three settings. This brings me to the bad news. The only way to make sure the brightness pops/fluctuations do not occur is to make the picture less bright. For instance you can't compensate for reducing the brightness by increasing the gamma, it just won't work.

So after doing extensive testing I have not seen a single brightness pop in any material after applying these settings:

Contrast 60
Brightness 52
Gamma 0
Cell Light 20 (partially to brighten up scene - this setting has no effect on brightness pops)

I'm still deciding whether this is a deal breaker, but figured I'd share my results.

Hope this helps someone.
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post #396 of 2252
10/12/11 at 2:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by DLzone View Post

Well I've got good news and bad news. The good news is that I've figured out what causes the brightness pops and how to prevent them.

There is a great indoor scene on the latest episode of boardwalk empire that causes a ton of the brightness pops/fluctuations. I did testing for a couple days can say definitively that there are only three settings that have any effect on whether or not they occur:

Brightness
Contrast
Gamma

Basically what seems to be happening is that tv will try and produce the best contrast on any given scene. The problem is that instead of doing it gradually it does it very fast which can cause a jarring fluctuation or pop. The key to prevent it from happening is to reduce the overall brightness so that the threshold isn't reached when the tv tries to readjust the brightness mid scene.

You can be accomplish this by reducing those three settings. This brings me to the bad news. The only way to make sure the brightness pops/fluctuations do not occur is to make the picture less bright. For instance you can't compensate for reducing the brightness by increasing the gamma, it just won't work.

So after doing extensive testing I have not seen a single brightness pop in any material after applying these settings:

Contrast 60
Brightness 52
Gamma 0
Cell Light 20 (partially to brighten up scene - this setting has no effect on brightness pops)

I'm still deciding whether this is a deal breaker, but figured I'd share my results.

Hope this helps someone.


Thanks for the info. A few others have pointed this out as well.

However, I'd say it's as much of a solution as making sure the TV's power cord is unplugged before watching your movie. Guaranteed pop-free after that




If you haven't done so already, please leave negative 1-star reviews for your Samsung TV on Amazon, Best Buy, and CNET websites. A sympathetic Samsung tech professed to a brightness-popper that it's the only way Samsung will issue a firmware fix for the issue -- if they see their precious review scores on retail sites getting dinged left and right, and especially right before Black Friday and the holiday shopping season.

Flame away!

https://www.facebook.com/pages/My-Sa...97504886976163
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post #397 of 2252
10/12/11 at 2:40am
nice one, i noticed that too on boardwalk empire.
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post #398 of 2252
10/12/11 at 4:09am
Any type of motorsport is unwatchable on my set due to this problem.
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post #399 of 2252
10/12/11 at 4:16am
Good only 10 people wAtch motorsports.
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post #400 of 2252
10/12/11 at 4:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by elmalloc View Post

Good only 10 people wAtch motorsports.

Not bloody likely!

But seriously, the only way I can watch the F1 or MotoGP on this thing is if I don't pay attention to what is happening on screen. I just kind of stare "through" the screen and listen to the commentary. Quite pathetic really.
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post #401 of 2252
10/12/11 at 5:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by janos666 View Post

Here, through debug mode serial port connection.
I don't want to be loud about it because I couldn't test it yet. Nobody actually looked inside the debug menu on D-series PDPs yet (only LCDs but those have slightly different settings), so I am not sure if the required settings are still there. (They were available for B series PDPs inside Picture_2D. The problem was that the entire Picture_2D is locked in the Service Menu on D-series. This problem seems to be solved with this method...)
I hope to test it soon (as soon as I get a serial adapter).

I've begun testing items in the advanced menu using the Top Debug Menu (TDM) that the folks at samygo.tv have unlocked. This is accessible with a serial adapter through the VGA port (D7000) and ex-link port (D8000). So far I can turn off "Contrast Dimming" only in standard mode. Whether or not any of these settings will affect any of the issues reported in this thread remains to be seen. By the way, I have not noticed any brightness pops on my display but I'm curious as to what can be adjusted in these menus. Here is a list of variables that can be adjusted with some of my default values (I just started looking at this).



Subsetting defaults
[0] Gamma 0.93
[1] Natural_Gamma ?
[2] PWM Max 100
[3] PWM Mid 7
[4] PWM Min 1
[5] Contrast Dimming on
[6] 7.5 IRE NTSC on
[7] 7.5 IRE OFFSET 70
[8] 48Hz Enable on
[9] Peak Dimming on
[10] Dynamic CE on
Enhance
[0] BM_start 168
[1] BM_start_max 400
[2] BM_start_max2 1023
[3] Lfunc_gain 130
[4] Hfunc_gain 130
[5] LCE_Gain 65
[6] ACR-Offset 10
[7] D_Skin-UV 138
[8] D_Sub color 140
[9] S_Skin-UV 138
[10] S_Sub Color 125
[11] M-Skin-UV 138
[12] M-Sub Color 140
[13] N_Skin_UV 135
[14] D_Sub_base_color 59
[15] M_Sub_base_color 59
WBMovie
[0] W/B MOVIE ON/OFF
[1] MODE
[2] Color Tone
[3] MSub Brightness
[4] MSub Contrast
[5] N_Rgain
[6] N_Bgain
[7] N_Roffset
[8] N_Boffset
[9] W2_Rgain
[10] W2_Bgain
[11] W2_Roffset
[12] W2_Boffset
[13] Movie Contrast
[14] Movie Bright
[15] Movie Color
[16] Movie Sharpness
[17] Movie Tint
[18] Movie Backlight
[19] Movie Gamma
[20] M_Sub_Gamma
[21] HDMI Black Level
WCE Wide Color Enhancer
[0] MCC2_U 100
[1] MCC2_V 60
[2] MCC3_U 168
[3] MCC3_V 168
[4] MCC4_U 132
[5] MCC4_V 118
[6] MCC5_U 128
[7] MCC5_V 158
[8] PPHC_R1 4
[9] PPHC_R2 2
[10] PPHC_G -3
[11] PPHC_B 8
[12] PPHC_C 10
[13] PPHC_M -27
[14] PPHC_Y 4
[15] PPSC_GAIN1_R 128
[16] PPSC_GAIN2_R 130
[17] PPSC_GAIN2_G 128
[18] PPSC_GAIN2_B 134
[19] PPSC_GAIN2_C 128
[20] PPSC_GAIN2_M 133
[21] PPSC_GAIN2_Y 138
CH_VDEC
[0] AGC_mode 1
[1] Gain_VCR 1
[2] Y_Gain_Man 880
[3] Y_Shape_sel 9
[4] Y_Shape_SCM 29
[5] C_Shape_sel 4
[6] C_Shape_SCM 4
[7] If_iir 1
[8] If_filt_sel 6
[9] ST_Beg_NTSC 1
[10] VS_Slice_Level 4
[11] HS_Slice_Level 3
[12] FB_Delay_adj 1
[13] RGB_Delay_adj 1
[14] slice_mod_fine 1
[15] scm_fdet_lvl 150
[16] bl_range 3
Sharpness
[0] Pre_GainH1
[1] Pre_GainH2
[2] Pre_GainH3
[3] Pre_GainV1
[4] Pre_GainV2
[5] Pre_GainV3
[6] Post_GainH1
[7] Post_GainH2
[8] Post_GainH3
[9] Post_GainV1
[10] Post_GainV2
[11] Post_GainV3
[12] Pre_LTIH
[13] SD_TH
[14] HD_TH
[15] NORMAL_LTIH
[16] NORMAL_LTIV
[17] SD_LTIH
[18] SD_LTIV
[19] LTI_H
[20] LTI_V
[21] PRE_CORING
[22] POST_CORING_H
[23] POST_CORING_V
[24] TE_PE_Gain
[25] TE_PEH_Gain
[26] TE_PV_Gain
[27] TE_PVH_Gain
[28] D_Pre_TOT
[29] D_Post_TOT
[30] S_Pre_TOT
[31] S_Post_TOT

LL
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post #402 of 2252
10/12/11 at 7:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

 
[5] Contrast Dimming on
[9] Peak Dimming on
[10] Dynamic CE on

Gotta be one of these 3. Wish I had the serial adapter I could check this instantly on my set.

Also I want to remove the stupid lowpass filtering for SD which I believe is in the sharpness section.
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post #403 of 2252
10/12/11 at 7:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by assm0de View Post

Gotta be one of these 3. Wish I had the serial adapter I could check this instantly on my set.

Also I want to remove the stupid lowpass filtering for SD which I believe is in the sharpness section.

So far I have only tested using the Dynamic Brightness test pattern from the AVSHD test disk. Turning off the items you mentioned in addition to zeroing out the 1st six items from the Enhance section had no effect on this test pattern in Movie and Cal D/N modes, but eliminated the gamma shifts one sees in this pattern in Standard mode.
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post #404 of 2252
10/12/11 at 9:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by assm0de View Post

Gotta be one of these 3. Wish I had the serial adapter I could check this instantly on my set.

Also I want to remove the stupid lowpass filtering for SD which I believe is in the sharpness section.

Looks like we might be making some progress! Keep at it boys. F*ck Samsung.
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post #405 of 2252
10/13/11 at 5:01am
NO & no buzzing PS43D455A2W (EU Model/Denmark)(PN43D450 in US)
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post #406 of 2252
10/13/11 at 6:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

Turning off the items you mentioned in addition to zeroing out the 1st six items from the Enhance section had no effect on this test pattern in Movie and Cal D/N modes, but eliminated the gamma shifts one sees in this pattern in Standard mode.

It is annoying that Movie mode isn't affected by these settings.
Was Movie mode active when you changed the values?

But it's a nice progress progress anyway. As soon as the tonal response and peak brightness are stable, I think I will be able to use 3DLUT processing on my PC to do color management.
(The dynamic adjustments ruin the source side 3D color mixing and the result is even worse than before... )

My serial adapter is still in the store. The stupid seller didn't even noticed my order until I called them a hour ago to ask "Where is my stuff already?" Argh...


Sharpness settings also look interesting. I hope setting up PRE_* and POST_* equally will finally eliminate any sharpening/blurring.
I could never find a Sharpness value which feels correct (causes zero sharpening and/or blurring).
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post #407 of 2252
10/13/11 at 6:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by janos666 View Post

It is annoying that Movie mode isn't affected by these settings.
Was Movie mode active when you changed the values?

yes, I verified again last night. The only effect I can get so far is that if I turn off contrast dimming while in movie (or CAL D/N) modes is that it disables the user menu dynamic contrast control. It does not disable the inherent dynamic contrast.
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post #408 of 2252
10/13/11 at 7:24pm
There must be a button to press, perhaps on the factory remote, that changes the picture mode that the settings apply to.
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post #409 of 2252
10/14/11 at 12:04am
Not necesserely. It's a debug menu for debugging. You don't really need to check every available picture modes to tell if the hardware isn't defective but the visible brightness fluctuation is just the good old built-in feature as usual.
They didn't design this menu for us to fine-tune the picture quality and eliminate their forced features. If they want to disable this feature then they can do it with a firmware update with or without adding a new manual swith in the normal and/or service menu.
You can already change the active picture mode inside Picture_2D, so I don't see the idea behind separete these two.

But I still hope there is a solution and of course, every ideas are welcomed.
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post #410 of 2252
10/14/11 at 12:11am
Something i noticed tonight and I'm not sure if it's been mentioned or not, but I tested this out during the dark knight. I tested this during the opening in which the bat flys through the crowds. I would get the same two pops each time. Tried a few things and switched film mode from off to cinema smooth. After that, the two pops went away. I'm not sure if that helps at all but i just thought to share that info
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post #411 of 2252
10/14/11 at 1:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by movies2090 View Post

Something i noticed tonight and I'm not sure if it's been mentioned or not, but I tested this out during the dark knight. I tested this during the opening in which the bat flys through the crowds. I would get the same two pops each time. Tried a few things and switched film mode from off to cinema smooth. After that, the two pops went away. I'm not sure if that helps at all but i just thought to share that info

This has been mentioned multiple times before. The problem is that CS only works on bluray.
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post #412 of 2252
10/14/11 at 5:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by janos666 View Post

Not necesserely. It's a debug menu for debugging. You don't really need to check every available picture modes to tell if the hardware isn't defective but the visible brightness fluctuation is just the good old built-in feature as usual.
They didn't design this menu for us to fine-tune the picture quality and eliminate their forced features. If they want to disable this feature then they can do it with a firmware update with or without adding a new manual swith in the normal and/or service menu.
You can already change the active picture mode inside Picture_2D, so I don't see the idea behind separete these two.

But I still hope there is a solution and of course, every ideas are welcomed.

Did some more testing and need to reverse my original finding about standard mode. I started more thorough testing by monitoring the 40% stimulus bar in the dynamic contrast pattern. What I originally thought about standard vs. movie mode is not correct, they behave the same in that subsetting [5] disables user control of dynamic settings low, medium, high but does not eliminate inherent DC.

Some other findings:

1. Changes in subsettings and enhance menu survive a factory reset.
2. Zeroing out the first six items in the enhance menu has the same effect as turning contrast dimming off, i.e. user menu settings have no effect.
3. Have not found any effects toggling either peak dimming or dynamic CE using test patterns.
4. Occasionally when entering non-existent menu numbers the tv will crash and can only be turn off by removing power.

So at this point it appears there is an inherent dynamic contrast that the user can adjust the magnitude of but that can't be disabled via software. I suspect this is built into the way the panel is driven and that a firmware fix will not eliminate it, the best you can do is improve the firmware to reduce noticeability, which is exactly the same position panasonic owners are in. If I were offered such a firmware fix I would refuse it as my display shows none of the artifacts discussed in this thread.
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post #413 of 2252
10/14/11 at 5:50am
I considered the possibility that these TRC scaling methods can be essential parts of the panel driving scheme.

But until the software has control over the magnitude, the magnitude can be zero.
The only question is if the elimination of this method causes any other and possibly even more noticeable side-effect (like increased MLL, disturbing amount of dithering noise on dark areas, misfiring pixels, etc, etc...).
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post #414 of 2252
10/14/11 at 6:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by janos666 View Post

I considered the possibility that these TRC scaling methods can be essential parts of the panel driving scheme.

But until the software has control over the magnitude, the magnitude can be zero.
The only question is if the elimination of this method causes any other and possibly even more noticeable side-effect (like increased MLL, disturbing amount of dithering noise on dark areas, misfiring pixels, etc, etc...).

Perhaps, but I can just as easily imagine a two-stage system with drive based baseline effects and user controlled scaling on top of that, presumably to keep from overloading the CPU. In any case good luck with your testing.
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post #415 of 2252
10/14/11 at 8:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

Perhaps, but I can just as easily imagine a two-stage system with drive based baseline effects and user controlled scaling on top of that, presumably to keep from overloading the CPU.

Yes, that's the other version (both the easily programmable software on the main-board and the hard programmed logic board do some adjustments and the visible effects look similar.


Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

In any case good luck with your testing.

Thanks, I will play with the Sharpness settings first.
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post #416 of 2252
10/14/11 at 10:46am
Good luck finding it. We'd all highly benefit.
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post #417 of 2252
10/14/11 at 2:08pm
My 59D550 has no pops, but it did just start to get 3 new blinking pixels. I'm past the 30 day return date, but I'd like to engage the Samsung 1 year warranty. I'm so worried that if they replace the TV for the bad pixels I'll get a new one that pops.. oh dear.
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post #418 of 2252
10/14/11 at 2:54pm
Doesn't ANYONE know a Samsung tech with any knowledge of this stuff?
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post #419 of 2252
10/15/11 at 12:52pm
my set has pops, slowly starting to drive me crazy
I hope for the fix! If there has to be brighntess change, why pops ? if it is smooth slow change it's gonna be more acceptable
I looks like quick switch of gamma or something on my set.
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post #420 of 2252
10/15/11 at 2:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cajhaj View Post

my set has pops, slowly starting to drive me crazy
I hope for the fix! If there has to be brighntess change, why pops ? if it is smooth slow change it's gonna be more acceptable
I looks like quick switch of gamma or something on my set.

Do you still see them with settings like these:

Movie mode, warm2, cell 20, contrast 76, brightness 52, gamma -2 ?
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