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'Game of Thrones' on HBO HD - NO SPOILERS or Book Discussion - Page 80

post #2371 of 4678
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwsat View Post

Margery's grandmother, Lady Olenna, played by the wonderful Diana Rigg, is a scary lady but a very smart one. I see where Margery's intelligence came from.

I see that Diana Rigg will also be appearing in the May 4th episode of Dr. Who.
post #2372 of 4678
A courtesan is a high-class prostitute, plain and simple. Margaery would not be the king's fiancee if anyone within the fictional world of the show considered her to be anything but a noble lady who was still a virgin.

To us, she's a very good player of The Game... but there's really no need to call her a whore, essentially, when we have no evidence that she's slept with anyone. There's enough sexism within this fictional world that we should be cautious about adding to it, IMO.
post #2373 of 4678
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitearrow View Post

A courtesan is a high-class prostitute, plain and simple. Margaery would not be the king's fiancee if anyone within the fictional world of the show considered her to be anything but a noble lady who was still a virgin.

To us, she's a very good player of The Game... but there's really no need to call her a whore, essentially, when we have no evidence that she's slept with anyone. There's enough sexism within this fictional world that we should be cautious about adding to it, IMO.

You are applying a more modern meaning of the word than it's old world origins. Until she is indeed a queen to Joffrey, this description fits for many reasons.
Quote:
A courtesan was originally a woman courtier, which means a person who attends the court of a monarch or other powerful person., v. courtesan, -zan, 1, Obs., "One attached to the court of a prince"; courtesan, -zan, 2, "A court-mistress", Etymon "a. F. courtisane, ad.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Courtesan

Not lost here is that Margaery is indeed looking to trade on her sexuality which does brings up some of the more modern tones.
post #2374 of 4678
Quote:
Originally Posted by HD Hockey Guy View Post


I really liked the tension when Sansa was questioned by Margaery's grandmother - was unsure just like her whether she could truly speak freely or if this was trap of sorts. I really liked how that info was immediately was used by Margaery to play up to Joffrey's sadistic side and get back in good graces after some interrogation.
Great stuff.
Sansa just couldn't help blurting it out.....all of the mental torture Joffrey has put on her is taking its toll.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tack View Post

The Brotherhood guy didn't seem to be as threatening to Hound as much as he was giving him grief. Actually he was one of the more upstanding
characters so far, seeing how he was letting Arya and crew go. Was.
Agreed.
I doubt Arya is going anywhere now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by daryl zero View Post

As someone answered, the Reeds are Jojen (the boy) and Mira (his sister). Jojen is the one who was in Bran's dream. The ones who have Arya are, I believe they identified themselves as "the brotherhood withput banners". And again this was mentioned but you may not remember, they are some of the group that Ned Starks sent out (in the first season when he was acting as Hand when Robert was on his hunting trip) to go get the Mountain (Gregor Clegane, the Hound's brother) who was burning and raping in the riverlands.

Edit: Crap, I see that lynesjc already posted this.
Thanx anyway.smile.gif
post #2375 of 4678
Quote:
Originally Posted by HD Hockey Guy View Post

You are applying a more modern meaning of the word than it's old world origins. Until she is indeed a queen to Joffrey, this description fits for many reasons.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Courtesan

We're modern people talking to each other, so I tend to think that when someone uses a word, they are using it in the modern sense unless the context reads otherwise. The context in the original post read to me as if it meant "she plays the game of court well" which made me think the intended word was courtier.
Quote:
Not lost here is that Margaery is indeed looking to trade on her sexuality which does brings up some of the more modern tones.

It really kind of doesn't. Acting seductively with her very difficult fiancee does not make her the equivalent of a woman who sells sex for money. We would not call a male character who we've never seen have sex with anyone a man-whore or a gigolo. Referring to a female character with a synonym for prostitute is no different. If you want to call her manipulative, cunning, sly, a game-player, or a liar, all of those are to some degree accurate. Calling her a prostitute is not.

One of the overriding themes of this show is how those without obvious power come to exercise it in their own way. We've seen actual prostitutes who do accrue some degree of power -- Ros, through Littlefinger, and Shae, through her access to Tyrion. (See, I have no problem with calling an actual prostitute a prostitute.)

For a noble born woman, presenting herself as a desirable marriage prospect and then becoming the wife of a powerful man is one of the only ways to achieve any degree of power and security for herself. The decision about who the husband is to be is usually made without her input at all, and nobody particularly cares if the woman (girl) will be happy or not -- the decision is made to benefit the family, not the woman. This has been the situation with nearly all the noble marriages we've seen on the show to date -- Ned and Catelyn (and Catelyn was originally engaged to Ned's older brother), Dany and Drogo, Cersei and Robert, Lysa and Jon Arryn, Marcella's engagement to a Dornish prince she's never met, apparently Olenna Tyrell's marriage as she implied last night, and Robb's now-broken engagement to a Frey to be named later.

In that context, Margaery is no more a "courtesan" than Sansa is, who, in her younger and far less sophisticated way, was doing the same thing in season 1 that Margaery is doing now -- trying to please her future husband for the benefit of her family.
post #2376 of 4678
Quote:
Originally Posted by oink View Post

FWIW, this was the "fastest" episode I can recall.wink.gif

Yep 57min 05sec longest since season2/ep1.

Runtime tracker has season 2 with a per ep avg 55m 48s which is up 1m 23s from last years 54m 25s.

Need to eventually avg about 58m 30s to get 40m extra for the season essentially giving us almost 1 extra ep.
post #2377 of 4678
Quote:
Originally Posted by dcowboy7 View Post

Yep 57min 05sec longest since season2/ep1.

Runtime tracker has season 2 with a per ep avg 55m 48s which is up 1m 23s from last years 54m 25s.

Need to eventually avg about 58m 30s to get 40m extra for the season essentially giving us almost 1 extra ep.
WOW, I'm impressed with your time analysis skills.smile.gif
post #2378 of 4678
I assumed Theon's people knocked him out last season with the intention of turning him over to Robb. Didn't Robb say something last season about allowing them all safe passage back to the Iron Islands if they left Winterfell and turned over Theon? Or do I not remember that correctly?
post #2379 of 4678
Ragetti from pirates of the caribbean always has an eye issue.

In pirates he had the fake eye which was actually 1 of the pieces of 8 & now in thrones hes a warg wildling doing that wierd eye roll so he can see what the birds see.

Freaky.
post #2380 of 4678
Quote:
Originally Posted by daryl zero View Post

They dropped some huge clues/hints as to who has Theon but I'm not sure it can be disclosed without it being referred to as a spoiler.

I'm not sure either, but there are clues in the episode:

1) Listen carefully to what Robb says about what happened at Winterfell to Catelyn

2) If you watch the (first, I think) scene where Theon is being tortured, look carefully at what some of the background guys are wearing. You will see the same sigil elsewhere in the episode.
post #2381 of 4678
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitearrow View Post

I'm not sure either, but there are clues in the episode:

1) Listen carefully to what Robb says about what happened at Winterfell to Catelyn

2) If you watch the (first, I think) scene where Theon is being tortured, look carefully at what some of the background guys are wearing. You will see the same sigil elsewhere in the episode.

Another character talks explicitly about the sigil as well.
post #2382 of 4678
I don't think it's fair to be calling Margery a courtesan either. She's not in her current place because of her sex appeal, she's there because of her name and the power that house wields. Joining one house with another through marriage forces an alliance with much more than just the two houses. Each major house has lesser lords with lands and followers that come with it.

She has an appetite for power, same as Cersei, but she's using different strategies.


Joffrey doesn't seem to have any carnal desires. She obviously found another avenue.
post #2383 of 4678
Quote:
Originally Posted by cuzzin View Post

I assumed Theon's people knocked him out last season with the intention of turning him over to Robb. Didn't Robb say something last season about allowing them all safe passage back to the Iron Islands if they left Winterfell and turned over Theon? Or do I not remember that correctly?
Your memory is correct.wink.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yrd View Post

She's not in her current place because of her sex appeal, she's there because of her name and the power that house wields. Joining one house with another through marriage forces an alliance with much more than just the two houses. Each major house has lesser lords with lands and followers that come with it.

She has an appetite for power, same as Cersei, but she's using different strategies.

Joffrey doesn't seem to have any carnal desires. She obviously found another avenue.
+1
post #2384 of 4678
Does anyone else remember Natalie Dormer (Margaery) playing Anne Boleyn in The Tudors--very similar role.
post #2385 of 4678
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve S View Post

Does anyone else remember Natalie Dormer (Margaery) playing Anne Boleyn in The Tudors--very similar role.
I knew I had seen her before....
post #2386 of 4678
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve S View Post

Does anyone else remember Natalie Dormer (Margaery) playing Anne Boleyn in The Tudors--very similar role.

Yes sure do remember her. She was great in the Tudors.
post #2387 of 4678
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve S View Post

Does anyone else remember Natalie Dormer (Margaery) playing Anne Boleyn in The Tudors--very similar role.

I'm with oink. I knew I'd seen here somewhere but couldn't place it.
post #2388 of 4678
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitearrow View Post

I'm not sure either, but there are clues in the episode:

1) Listen carefully to what Robb says about what happened at Winterfell to Catelyn

2) If you watch the (first, I think) scene where Theon is being tortured, look carefully at what some of the background guys are wearing. You will see the same sigil elsewhere in the episode.
This is why I watch every episode of GoT twice - once live and once again after the eagle eyes and ears on this forum point me to critical bits that I missed the first time. Thank you all!
post #2389 of 4678
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve S View Post

Does anyone else remember Natalie Dormer (Margaery) playing Anne Boleyn in The Tudors--very similar role.

As of now though, unlike the last time we saw her on The Tudors, she still has her head !

rolleyes.gif
post #2390 of 4678
i assumed theon was being held by the bastard son of his lieutenant who rob dispatched to take back winterfell
with the instruction to let all the iron men leave except for theon.

and rob's other ally says he already lost the war by marrying that somewhat unattractive woman.

i know others will disagree with me on this.
post #2391 of 4678
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. wally View Post

i assumed theon was being held by the bastard son of his lieutenant who rob dispatched to take back winterfell
with the instruction to let all the iron men leave except for theon.

and rob's other ally says he already lost the war by marrying that somewhat unattractive woman.

i know others will disagree with me on this.

Actually I completely agree, except on the unattractive part - she's just very exotic looking in my opinion.



And she is Charlie Chaplin's granddaughter, if I have it right.
post #2392 of 4678
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. wally View Post

i assumed theon was being held by the bastard son of his lieutenant who rob dispatched to take back winterfell
with the instruction to let all the iron men leave except for theon.
My take too.

Quote:
and rob's other ally says he already lost the war by marrying that somewhat unattractive woman.
I think "unattractive" from a political POV.

Quote:
if I have it right.
Yes, you do.
post #2393 of 4678
Quote:
Originally Posted by oink View Post

My take too.
I think "unattractive" from a political POV.
Yes, you do.

Yeah, I thought that your eyesight and taste in women could never, ever, have led you to say that the beautiful Oona Chaplain was physically unattractive. I agree, however, that Rob made a dumb kid move in marrying the girl at the risk of his alliance with the family of his first fiance. The kid was thinking with his little head.smile.gif
post #2394 of 4678
well now that i think about it, oona did look attractive in that nude scene she did last season.
post #2395 of 4678
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwsat View Post

Yeah, I thought that your eyesight and taste in women could never, ever, have led you to say that the beautiful Oona Chaplain was physically unattractive. I agree, however, that Rob made a dumb kid move in marrying the girl at the risk of his alliance with the family of his first fiance. The kid was thinking with his little head.smile.gif

The show has made it clear that part of Rob's decision to marry Talisa is motivated by Catelyn's treason by releasing Jaime -- sort of a "eff you" from Rob to his mother.

If Theon is being held by the Bolton family, it would have significant political implications for Rob.
post #2396 of 4678
Quote:
Originally Posted by daryl zero View Post

The show has made it clear that part of Rob's decision to marry Talisa is motivated by Catelyn's treason by releasing Jaime -- sort of a "eff you" from Rob to his mother.

If that's the case (and I'm not sure I agree) it really diminishes Robb as a character. It would show that, despite the explicit warnings, he didn't understand the potential consequences of betraying Walder Frey -- if, at some point, they need to make a fast retreat north, the Twins could well be closed to him, and he could be trapped by the Trident on one side and a Lannister army on the other. It would show him to be quite childish and irresponsible, really, and not a worthy successor to Ned Stark.

I'm not saying your wrong, Daryl, just that if you are right, it sheds a new and unflattering light on Robb.
post #2397 of 4678
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitearrow View Post


2) If you watch the (first, I think) scene where Theon is being tortured, look carefully at what some of the background guys are wearing. You will see the same sigil elsewhere in the episode.

Not sure I'm seeing any sigils. Here are links to both portions:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vlbnbaa9Lfo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28r9gusg9nU
post #2398 of 4678
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwsat View Post

I agree, however, that Rob made a dumb kid move in marrying the girl at the risk of his alliance with the family of his first fiance. The kid was thinking with his little head.smile.gif
It does show his immaturity and inexperience in both matters.wink.gif
post #2399 of 4678
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitearrow View Post

If that's the case (and I'm not sure I agree) it really diminishes Robb as a character. It would show that, despite the explicit warnings, he didn't understand the potential consequences of betraying Walder Frey -- if, at some point, they need to make a fast retreat north, the Twins could well be closed to him, and he could be trapped by the Trident on one side and a Lannister army on the other. It would show him to be quite childish and irresponsible, really, and not a worthy successor to Ned Stark.

I'm not saying your wrong, Daryl, just that if you are right, it sheds a new and unflattering light on Robb.

I don't know if I'm right. I do think he was taken by Talisa but he has scoffed off his mother's warnings to him throwing her actions back in her face. Most of the "would-be" kings and queens have unflattering qualities. Loved Jaime's and Olenna's unflattering description of many of these pretenders especially Renly. What did Jaime say about the Iron Throne and Renly again? Yowsir.
post #2400 of 4678
Quote:
Originally Posted by daryl zero View Post



If Theon is being held by the Bolton family, it would have significant political implications for Rob.

how is that?
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