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'Game of Thrones' on HBO HD - NO SPOILERS or Book Discussion - Page 96

post #2851 of 4834
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

The only thing Ill say and this has been true of the past 2 seasons, we need to see what we see to get where they want do go. we dont always see the reasons why certain things happen and often they dont make sense until we see the "entire picture". I think the Theon story is just this, we need to see what he is going through in order to understand where he will end up. This happens every season though tehre is one part people think is holding back the story, but in the end it makes sense why they did what they did.

No it really doesn't. There has never been a story in any season that has done so little over so many episodes. As Sepinwall said, Theon has been tied to a cross in one room, in nearly every episode.

There is no reason at all they couldn't just pack all the Theon's scenes into one or two episodes instead of forcing it to become little more than an annoyance getting in the way. Nobody has any real idea how long he's been there and the audience doesn't really care. We know he's being tortured, we get it. Use it to bookend an episode where his story goes somewhere. Apparently next week it does, but if the show had held this week's scene until then and replaced it with additional scenes for everyone else it would have made no difference to the storytelling but it would have made this episode better.

Did anyone miss Theon last week? Was anyone wondering if he was still being tortured? No, people really didn't care and if he hadn't appeared last night the resulting apathy would have been the same.
post #2852 of 4834
Quote:
Originally Posted by VisionOn View Post

No it really doesn't. There has never been a story in any season that has done so little over so many episodes. As Sepinwall said, Theon has been tied to a cross in one room, in nearly every episode.

There is no reason at all they couldn't just pack all the Theon's scenes into one or two episodes instead of forcing it to become little more than an annoyance getting in the way. Nobody has any real idea how long he's been there and the audience doesn't really care. We know he's being tortured, we get it. Use it to bookend an episode where his story goes somewhere. Apparently next week it does, but if the show had held this week's scene until then and replaced it with additional scenes for everyone else it would have made no difference to the storytelling but it would have made this episode better.

Did anyone miss Theon last week? Was anyone wondering if he was still being tortured? No, people really didn't care and if he hadn't appeared last night the resulting apathy would have been the same.

His scenes dont bother me that much so I guess I am on the opposite side of the fence on this one. I didnt miss dany this week, but enjoyed when she was on last week, the same goes for all fo the characters. I dont make judgements on the scenes I dont like as much until I see where they are going with it. Personally I dont ahve an issue with what theyve been doing, if it ends up not going anywhere the Ill tend to agree with everyone, but until then as Ive said before Ill reserve my judgement, we could say the very same thing about Dany in the desert last season or soe of her story in the 1st season. why not jsut introduce, show her introduction to drogo then the wedding.....We needed the other parts in order to build her character into what she became IMO, to see where she ends up we had to see where she had been and what made her into what she is today.....

I know we are used to instant gratification and GoT is more like a slow burn, hopefully when we look back the Theon scenes will make sense, which has been my point the entire time. Since we dont know why they are doing itt this way its hard to make a judgement on how they affect the story.
post #2853 of 4834
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post


I know we are used to instant gratification and GoT is more like a slow burn, hopefully when we look back the Theon scenes will make sense, which has been my point the entire time. Since we dont know why they are doing itt this way its hard to make a judgement on how they affect the story.

I hope you're right about the HBO series, because in the books........
post #2854 of 4834
Quote:
Originally Posted by Otto Pylot View Post

I hope you're right about the HBO series, because in the books........

careful now...... cool.gif

I ahve not read book 3 so I ahve no idea where this is going or what was written and dont want to know at least until this season is over and possibly next.
post #2855 of 4834
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

I know we are used to instant gratification and GoT is more like a slow burn, hopefully when we look back the Theon scenes will make sense, which has been my point the entire time. Since we dont know why they are doing itt this way its hard to make a judgement on how they affect the story.

You are completely missing the point.

His full story is not the issue. The fact it is being told over multiple episodes when each instance is barely worth featuring as a single scene is. They could bundle his scenes together every few episodes and it would still be a slow reveal but featuring his character would actually be worthwhile. Right now it's like a contractual obligation being fulfilled that the actor had to appear in so many episodes this season, even if he had nothing to do but wave at the camera.

As I said, there has never been a story on Thrones that has done so little over so many episodes. It's the equivalent of having Dany appear every week, stood in the same place on the ship to just feed a dragon a steak, to emphasize how long a voyage took or have Tyrion sat at his desk in his chambers reading ledgers to emphasize how much money the Lannisters owe. We get it.
post #2856 of 4834
Quote:
Originally Posted by VisionOn View Post

You are completely missing the point.

His full story is not the issue. The fact it is being told over multiple episodes when each instance is barely worth featuring as a single scene is. They could bundle his scenes together every few episodes and it would still be a slow reveal but featuring his character would actually be worthwhile. Right now it's like a contractual obligation being fulfilled that the actor had to appear in so many episodes this season, even if he had nothing to do but wave at the camera.

As I said, there has never been a story on Thrones that has done so little over so many episodes. It's the equivalent of having Dany appear every week, stood in the same place on the ship to just feed a dragon a steak, to emphasize how long a voyage took or have Tyrion sat at his desk in his chambers reading ledgers to emphasize how much money the Lannisters owe. We get it.

No, I get this point as its been made for a few episodes now. I just dont feel as strongly as others do about it.
post #2857 of 4834
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

No, I get this point as its been made for a few episodes now.

Then why bother continuing with the "slow burn" retort, when that is not the point being discussed? Everyone watching is pretty much on board with the long game of the story, but it doesn't need five episodes to show what could be done in two episodes 5 weeks apart. Same result. Better use of time. The less tired of seeing the same scene week after week the audience are.

And from reading reviews elsewhere that is a feeling that is becoming quite common now.

e.g.

"But where this episode really lost its narrative footing, at least briefly, I think, was in the torture scenes with Theon. It’s gone on long enough now that I think we need to know who this guy is, or what the future holds for Theon. I mean, can you justify yet another ‘Theon-gets-tortured’ segment while ignoring Daenarys for an entire episode? That’s my one quibble."

http://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2013/05/game-of-thrones-review---the-climb-episode-36.html
post #2858 of 4834
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

careful now...... cool.gif

I ahve not read book 3 so I ahve no idea where this is going or what was written and dont want to know at least until this season is over and possibly next.

Don't worry. I won't spoil it for anybody. I'm just dismayed with the whole Theon torture thing.
post #2859 of 4834
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitearrow View Post

The war was unstoppable the moment Ned threatened Tywin from the throne and sent out Beric Dondarrion to deal with Gregor Clegane. Nothing was going to stop it at that point. In fact, if you think about all the events that happened and in what order, the "who's responsible for the war" goes all the way back to Jaime throwing Bran out the window.

It's easy to call the Starks naive and overly honorable and bad players of the game, and all of that is true. But they have been reacting the entire time, not putting events in motion. Thus calling anything that's happened their "fault" is only looking at one part of the picture.

True, but Ned was at least going to get his children out of King's Landing before any of this. Then Sansa ran to Cersei and told her she wanted to stay to marry Joffrey. She put her plans (marrying the king) above her family, and naively thought everything would turn out right. Margaery Tyrell is about two years older (?) but a world apart from Sansa ( I'm not even bringing up Daenerys... oh wait, I did).

Ned may have been done, but he at least wanted to avoid what eventually happened, his child being held as a hostage. If Sansa and Arya are out of there, there is no release of Jaime, no break with the Karstarks for Rob (losing half of his troops) since her mother doesn't release him in her kooky plan to release her kids. Which would never have been allowed by Tywin Lannister.

So now Sansa is faced with another opportunity to not be a hostage, free her brother from that worry and responsibility (since he is in a war and all), but she doesn't think of him, her mother, brothers, etc.. just how she can be wed to a powerful knight. She would still be desirable as a match at her Aunt's, just not as a hostage.
Edited by hernanu - 5/6/13 at 1:01pm
post #2860 of 4834
Quote:
Originally Posted by VisionOn View Post

Then why bother continuing with the "slow burn" retort, when that is not the point being discussed? Everyone watching is pretty much on board with the long game of the story, but it doesn't need five episodes to show what could be done in two episodes 5 weeks apart. Same result. Better use of time. The less tired of seeing the same scene week after week the audience are.

And from reading reviews elsewhere that is a feeling that is becoming quite common now.

e.g.

"But where this episode really lost its narrative footing, at least briefly, I think, was in the torture scenes with Theon. It’s gone on long enough now that I think we need to know who this guy is, or what the future holds for Theon. I mean, can you justify yet another ‘Theon-gets-tortured’ segment while ignoring Daenarys for an entire episode? That’s my one quibble."

http://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2013/05/game-of-thrones-review---the-climb-episode-36.html

retort? is just my point of view and as far as slow burn goes, its the 1st time Ive brought that up in this episodes conversation.....As I said but you seem to have skipped over, I hope they do make the scenes worth it or Ill probably be in the same palce all of you are now.....With this show though I am much more patient for pay off regardless of hwo I feel about whats being shown in small pieces...

To add, I dont read reviews, but if you feel that bolsters your opinion of the show thats fine, I see and have been able to see where everyone is coming from, as I said Im just not bothered by it as much as evveryone else.....
post #2861 of 4834
Quote:
Originally Posted by VisionOn View Post

Theon has the problem of not being very interesting anyway. That's compounded by the fact his story this season is basically "it's just us watching Alfie Allen yell and plead a lot." as Alan Sepinwall summarized it.

Then we have the way it's just being dished out in five minute chunks that don't go anywhere and just interrupt all the better stories. It might have been more entertaining if they just skipped him until his story has somewhere to go. I definitely didn't miss him last week and when he returned Theon was in exactly the same place he was five episodes ago.
I haven't read the books and have no idea where Theon is going.

I don't see HOW the future Theon will become a player in GoT.
He is dumb, reckless, a traitor, everyone (including his family) despises him, has no real power base....
If he somehow should, I'll be pi$$ed.

He is the most uninteresting character on the show by a mile...to make matters worse, his story is taking up valuable screen time.rolleyes.gif
post #2862 of 4834
I think the problem with the whole Theon thing is that I don't care where he is. And as a non-book reading viewer, I have no way of knowing. So I hope they move that whole plot point on, and soon, because I too find it very boring. Yeah, the guy's an ass, and deserves it, but kill him already (not that GRRM will - the worst of the bunch always seem to live on).

There was a lot of good dialogue in last night's episode but my favorite was the one delivered by lord Bolton to Jaime Lannister "...don't overplay your... position." Clever.
post #2863 of 4834
i get it now. using the map shown at the intro, ygritte and john snow and their companions are climbing from the north side of the wall to the south side. john snow and the watchmen took the elevator on the south side of the wall (interesting as i don't remember them climbing down the north side of the wall)

what's confusing is that heretofore, from the map and the scenes from the north side of the wall, i thought the wall was the face of a glacier and there would be ice sheets as tall as the face on the north side, hence nothing to climb down.


yeah and this theon thing, gratuitous torture, wtf?
post #2864 of 4834
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. wally View Post

what's confusing is that heretofore, from the map and the scenes from the north side of the wall, i thought the wall was the face of a glacier and there would be ice sheets as tall as the face on the north side, hence nothing to climb down.

No, it's an artifact, a construct. That's why it's called a wall.
post #2865 of 4834
Some of the forts/castles have gates, so the Night's Watch doesn't have to climb up or down to pass the wall.
post #2866 of 4834
Quote:
Originally Posted by sirjonsnow View Post

Some of the forts/castles have gates, so the Night's Watch doesn't have to climb up or down to pass the wall.
Right. That was shown in the very first scene of the series. The wildlings know they can only get past the Wall en masse by using the gates, not by climbing.
post #2867 of 4834
So, we're in agreement - Theon...Yawn

John Show about to make history as the first of the Night's Watch
to chow down on wildling patch (or any for that matter) on top of the wall! .... Yes!
post #2868 of 4834
Quote:
Originally Posted by JediMastr View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by drhill View Post

I believe in the show and book (if memory serves me correctly) Ned was sending the girls off just before he was going to depose Jeoffrey until Stannis could claim the throne. Sansa cried to Cersei and tipped off the plan. I did I incorrectly remember Ned being a part of the escape, but Sansa allowed Cersei to gain the upperhand by tipping her off. Suspecting it's coming, and knowing when it is coming are two different things.

But you are right... Ned was an idiot. He couldn't play the game. He could have still remained honorable and did the right thing had he not been so loud about it. Ned definitely shouldn't have given the girls a chance to ruin his plan.

If I remember correctly, Joffrey had made an effort to show Sansa some fake affection, which got her all dumb in the head--then Ned broke the news to her that he was sending them away. Of course Sansa protested, saying she was to marry her little lion, and then Arya reminded her that technically Joffrey was a stag. Sansa said Joffrey was nothing like his father, and that's when the light bulb went off, or turned on, in Ned's head...Joffrey wasn't Robert's son--and he confirmed it by looking up Robert's family history. He then went to the Queen--sealing his fate--and we all know what happened from there.

If I'm right. what you've described didn't happen--Sansa running to Cersei--on the show anyway...oh the dangers of reading the books--one can't be too careful.

I believe there is a scene in the second season where she confesses to someone her actions. Whenever I get around to a rewatch I'll look out for it.
post #2869 of 4834
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitearrow View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by drhill View Post

I want to feel bad for Sansa, but this entire mess is her fault. Had she not ran to Cersei because of her "love" of Jeoffrey when her father was going to escape King's Landing the whole war would have probably been averted.

The war was unstoppable the moment Ned threatened Tywin from the throne and sent out Beric Dondarrion to deal with Gregor Clegane. Nothing was going to stop it at that point. In fact, if you think about all the events that happened and in what order, the "who's responsible for the war" goes all the way back to Jaime throwing Bran out the window.

It's easy to call the Starks naive and overly honorable and bad players of the game, and all of that is true. But they have been reacting the entire time, not putting events in motion. Thus calling anything that's happened their "fault" is only looking at one part of the picture.
You are absolutely correct, but her actions did speed up Cersei's reaction and did not help Ned's neck. Though it could have been inevitable.
post #2870 of 4834
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. wally View Post

i get it now. using the map shown at the intro, ygritte and john snow and their companions are climbing from the north side of the wall to the south side. john snow and the watchmen took the elevator on the south side of the wall (interesting as i don't remember them climbing down the north side of the wall)

what's confusing is that heretofore, from the map and the scenes from the north side of the wall, i thought the wall was the face of a glacier and there would be ice sheets as tall as the face on the north side, hence nothing to climb down.


yeah and this theon thing, gratuitous torture, wtf?

The elevator is only used to get to the top of the Wall from teh south side, it is used by the watchmen.
They showed the gated tunnel in season 1 and season 2 which is how they normally go from the south to the north side of the wall. Most likely they will work thier way down and then open teh gate for the rest of the army\people.......
post #2871 of 4834
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

The elevator is only used to get to the top of the Wall from teh south side, it is used by the watchmen.
They showed the gated tunnel in season 1 and season 2 which is how they normally go from the south to the north side of the wall. Most likely they will work thier way down and then open teh gate for the rest of the army\people.......


I'm impressed how some of you can watch these eps and retain some of the more obscure facts. I watch each show at least twice, but the series is so cleverly written and challenges you to figure things out ( not much on a silver platter) that it is maybe the most rewarding television series I can recall.

To keep up with you super knowledgeable folks, guess I need to read the books and purchase season 1 & 2.

Thanks for all the help
post #2872 of 4834
No need to purchase season 1 or 2 mr. wally...just use HBO Go to see them anytime you want if you have already deleted them smile.gif that's what I do
post #2873 of 4834
Can someone explain why Ros was killed please? Joffrey found out from Littlefinger that she was spying for Varys? What did Joffrey have to do with this?
post #2874 of 4834
Quote:
Originally Posted by hunter65 View Post

Can someone explain why Ros was killed please? Joffrey found out from Littlefinger that she was spying for Varys? What did Joffrey have to do with this?

What Joffrey has to do with this is that Joffrey is a ready and willing sadist. Littlefinger found out Ros was spying for Varys so he volunteered Ros for Joffrey's excesses in order to eliminate her.
post #2875 of 4834
Quote:
Originally Posted by daryl zero View Post

What Joffrey has to do with this is that Joffrey is a ready and willing sadist. Littlefinger found out Ros was spying for Varys so he volunteered Ros for Joffrey's excesses in order to eliminate her.
My take too.

Joffrey doesn't need much motivation.....
post #2876 of 4834
+ Jeffy was just looking for a reason to use his new crossbow. biggrin.gif

Another new audience record 5,500,000 viewers & 6,770,000 combined for the 2 sunday night showings.
post #2877 of 4834
Forgive me is this was stated already, I need to hurry today.

Why didn't Jon Snow just go through the door in the wall he used initially to enter the north side of the wall with is whole group? They showed them all coming out a secret door last season. Why not just go back that way?
post #2878 of 4834
Thread Starter 
Maybe because you can't open the door from outside, it keeps the WhiteWalkers out.... wink.gif
post #2879 of 4834
Quote:
Originally Posted by WilliamR View Post

Forgive me is this was stated already, I need to hurry today.

Why didn't Jon Snow just go through the door in the wall he used initially to enter the north side of the wall with is whole group? They showed them all coming out a secret door last season. Why not just go back that way?

He's with the enemy now. The Night's Watch wouldn't voluntarily let him and his wildlings in with him. Thus, sneaking over the wall which apparently is not that uncommon.
post #2880 of 4834
Funny, it looked like only four of them made it.
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