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Lilmike's Cinema F-20 - Page 52

post #1531 of 1695
Thread Starter 
Thought I had already discussed the HT15D2... Oops...must have been via PM or email.

Modeling with the provided specs suggests that the Stereo Integrity HT15D2 is not a bad fit in the F-20 at all, it is power-limited.

It models with about the same frequency response as the Dayton DVC. Full recommended power (600W) is well within linear xmax.

However - the SI HT15D2 appears to prefer a slightly lower-tuned cabinet. Since it has just enough motor to work in a tapped horn, the LilWrecker or the HouseWrecker are options.
post #1532 of 1695
Hmmm I womder then how much power it could take without excursion or other mechanical problems.

It had been said tht the modest Pe on those drivers was to discourage folks from dumping a gob of power on em simce they reach excursion limits pretty easily.

I believe thermally they are supposed to be good for quite a bit more.

Doesnt sound like worth the extra $ though, maybe a better investment would be build another F20! biggrin.gif

Thanks Mike.
post #1533 of 1695
Hi, Can I use a Dayton RSS-390 4(15" 4 Ohm)? I have 2 of these and would like to try your design.
Thanks
post #1534 of 1695
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forte_II View Post

Hi, Can I use a Dayton RSS-390 4(15" 4 Ohm)? I have 2 of these and would like to try your design.
Thanks

The RSS-390 has been discussed a few times, perhaps most simply in this post.

Tim
post #1535 of 1695
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forte_II View Post

Hi, Can I use a Dayton RSS-390 4(15" 4 Ohm)? I have 2 of these and would like to try your design.
Thanks

I am using four of these in four F20s and it sounds great. Cheers!
post #1536 of 1695
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forte_II View Post

Hi, Can I use a Dayton RSS-390 4(15" 4 Ohm)? I have 2 of these and would like to try your design.
Thanks

I think this needs a little more clarification, as there are two RSS390, the HF and the HO. Both are 15-inch, 4 ohm drivers, but they have very different parameters.

If you're talking about the RSS390 HF, absolutely. It works very well in the F-20.

The HO version is not well suited to this cabinet. No worries though, it works well in some of my tapped horn designs.
Edited by lilmike - 2/9/13 at 4:20pm
post #1537 of 1695
Quote:
Originally Posted by dutchswan0311 View Post

I am using four of these in four F20s and it sounds great. Cheers!
Where did you put all those big cabs? LOL
post #1538 of 1695
he has a dinner theater with a screen wall.
post #1539 of 1695
I Just put the last coat of duratex on 2 F-20's. I will install the RSS390 HF's and fire them up later tonight.

Is it bad that I haven't even finished these F-20's and I already want to build a pair of LilWreckers?
post #1540 of 1695
I didn't think the HO was a 4ohm driver.
post #1541 of 1695
Thread Starter 
It's been available as a 4-ohm driver for as long as I have had it in HornResp.

4-ohm RSS390HO
post #1542 of 1695
I wanted to know if covering the opening with Mellotone Premium Black Speaker Grill Cloth will affect the output? Was planning on covering entire front face of cabinet with it, both opening and front face with a custom cover... so I only have to stain the 5 sides... any ideas or experiences with that plan? I saw some discussion about it, most notably the "chicken wire" which will sadly not fly with the wife.

After watching the video below... thanks for the visual representation of that potential design flaw btw... I will scratch that idea off the list.

I also wanted to feed my speaker output through the back of the cabinet, vice the bottom (assuming its laying down). I was going to route it through the back chamber wall (have a fitting that will be airtight) and run the speaker wire alongside a brace that would terminate with a speakon on the outside wall of the cabinet.

For the access panel, I was going record/scribe the area that "would be cut out" for the access panel and not actually make the cut. If I ever suspect driver failure or any issues... I would then retrofit the access panel to see what’s going on.

Still on the fence about attaching the plate amp to the back of the cabinet (considering a separate enclosure that is screwed into the back of the cabinet in lieu of cutting out a section and making the plate amp exposed to the inside of the cabinet)
Any ideas on this, as I basically don't want to have the amp just sitting on the floor next to the cabinet in its own box. I can’t run speaker wire to remote amp, already have coax in-wall to a drop where sub is going.


Pros:
Only 5 sides need "expensive" stain matching for living room furniture/Klipsch WF-35 (cabernet)
Kids/animals not climbing into speaker.

Easy access to disconnect speaker from amp (will be laying down)
No possibility of leakage from access panel and general aesthetics more than anything.

Cons:
Cloth gets bounced around from air movement to the point of sagging occurring
Will need to be concerned about PL getting on driver when gluing the cover on
driver issues that need to be visually checked by looking into non-existent access panel

Please provide some feedback to either confirm or shoot down my plans in terms of feasibility/performance impacts. Would like to build one and then another depending on how nice the first one comes out. Only have agreement for one right now from the Mrs.

One last thing, so there should be no need to go with bash 500 over the bash 300. I will be using Dayton Audio RSS390HF-4 15".
Edited by stang725 - 2/13/13 at 7:31pm
post #1543 of 1695

This video should give you an idea of the volume and velocity of air exiting the mouth of a horn.. That's a 19hz sine wave, on theHouseWrecker 5.1a. Apologies for the wire mess - etc, testing.. Took a couple more short clips after that one - not uploaded. Shredding stuff.
Edited by dB-Kicker - 2/13/13 at 4:11pm
post #1544 of 1695
I have been wanting to do a "candle test" on my F20s. The thought is to see if I can blow out a candle with Black Eye Peas 'Boom Boom Pow'. Anyone wanna bet one way or the other? lol
post #1545 of 1695
Easily... Mine can ripple pant legs from 5 feet away.
post #1546 of 1695
Thread Starter 
Comments and suggestions below.
Quote:
Originally Posted by stang725 View Post


I also wanted to feed my speaker output through the back of the cabinet, vice the bottom (assuming its laying down). I was going to route it through the back chamber wall (have a fitting that will be airtight) and run the speaker wire alongside a brace that would terminate with a speakon on the outside wall of the cabinet.
....

As long as things are airtight and the wire is secured, things will be fine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by stang725 View Post

For the access panel, I was going record/scribe the area that "would be cut out" for the access panel and not actually make the cut. If I ever suspect driver failure or any issues... I would then retrofit the access panel to see what’s going on.
....

Up to you. Cutting into things after the fact is always an option, but the inability to inspect things or tighten the driver screws might be an issue. I'd suggest going with the access panel, it isn't that hard to do, and it isn't that hard to seal up properly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by stang725 View Post

Still on the fence about attaching the plate amp to the back of the cabinet (considering a separate enclosure that is screwed into the back of the cabinet in lieu of cutting out a section and making the plate amp exposed to the inside of the cabinet)
Any ideas on this, as I basically don't want to have the amp just sitting on the floor next to the cabinet in its own box. I can’t run speaker wire to remote amp, already have coax in-wall to a drop where sub is going.
...

Plate amps are very limited. If I were going to run a separate amp on an F-20 today, I'd get a smaller rack-mounted pro amp. Something like the iNuke 1000DSP will run one or two cabinets just fine, and offers very nice DSP tuning, for about $300.
Quote:
Originally Posted by stang725 View Post

One last thing, so there should be no need to go with bash 500 over the bash 300. I will be using Dayton Audio RSS390HF-4 15".

See my suggestion above.
post #1547 of 1695
do you know of a airtight fitting to penetrate the back chamber wall that would be able to accept soldered 12g on both sides? Not even sure what to google on that one... will use speakon for external connect.

This is in reference to my above post. If not i can always juat come out the access panel.


Thanks so much for providing previous input for amp info
post #1548 of 1695
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by stang725 View Post

do you know of a airtight fitting to penetrate the back chamber wall that would be able to accept soldered 12g on both sides? Not even sure what to google on that one... will use speakon for external connect.

This is in reference to my above post. If not i can always juat come out the access panel.


Thanks so much for providing previous input for amp info

I'd drill a hole, run the wire through it, then just use some caulk or PL to seal the wire in place. Hotmelt glue works too.

I usually anchor the wire with cable ties that have screw eyes molded in the ends. On test mule builds, I just use cable ties or staples.
post #1549 of 1695
Quote:
Originally Posted by stang725 View Post

do you know of a airtight fitting to penetrate the back chamber wall that would be able to accept soldered 12g on both sides? Not even sure what to google on that one... will use speakon for external connect.

This is in reference to my above post. If not i can always juat come out the access panel.


Thanks so much for providing previous input for amp info

You would google "bulkhead electrical connector". Here is a link to some mil spec air/liquid connectors
post #1550 of 1695
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dutchswan0311 View Post

I have been wanting to do a "candle test" on my F20s. The thought is to see if I can blow out a candle with Black Eye Peas 'Boom Boom Pow'. Anyone wanna bet one way or the other? lol

If they can't blow out a candle, you've got issues...

I can blow out a candle at 3 feet with the MicroWrecker, and there was still some left in the tank at that point.
Edited by lilmike - 2/18/13 at 1:07pm
post #1551 of 1695
I have 2 of these unknown 15's laying around... F20 worthy?

\* This data was exported from DATS the Dayton Audio Test System
* Piston Diameter = 355.6 mm
* f(s)= 24.22 Hz
* R(e)= 6.62 Ohms
* Z(max)= 62.50 Ohms "I Dont understand this one!"
* Q(ms)= 4.477
* Q(es)= 0.531
* Q(ts)= 0.474
* V(as)= 263.100 liters (9.292 cubic feet)
* L(e)= 1.49 mH
* n(0)= 0.67 %
* SPL= 90.37 1W/1m
* M(ms)= 227.30 grams
* C(ms)= 0.19 mm/N
* BL= 20.77
*
*
Freq Impedance Phase
1.029 6.547 3.145
1.059 6.547 3.145
1.091 6.547 3.145
1.122 6.547 3.145
1.155 6.547 3.145
1.189 6.547 3.145
1.224 6.547 3.145
1.260 6.547 3.145
1.297 6.547 3.145
1.335 6.642 5.945
1.374 6.642 5.945
1.414 6.642 5.945
1.456 6.642 5.945
1.498 6.642 5.945
1.542 6.642 5.945
1.587 6.642 5.945
1.634 6.642 5.945
1.682 6.642 5.945
1.731 6.642 5.945
1.782 6.642 5.945
1.834 6.642 5.945
1.888 6.642 5.945
1.943 6.642 5.945
2.000 6.737 8.734
2.059 6.737 8.734
2.119 6.737 8.734
2.181 6.737 8.734
2.245 6.737 8.734
2.311 6.737 8.734
2.378 6.737 8.734
2.448 6.737 8.734
2.520 6.737 8.734
2.594 6.737 8.734
2.670 6.827 11.430
2.748 6.827 11.430
2.828 6.827 11.430
2.911 6.827 11.430
2.997 6.827 11.430
3.084 6.827 11.430
3.175 6.827 11.430
3.268 6.827 11.430
3.364 6.941 14.095
3.462 6.941 14.095
3.564 6.941 14.095
3.668 6.941 14.095
3.775 6.941 14.095
3.886 6.941 14.095
4.000 7.066 16.728
4.117 7.066 16.728
4.238 7.066 16.728
4.362 7.066 16.728
4.490 7.066 16.728
4.621 7.066 16.728
4.757 7.228 19.321
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5.040 7.228 19.321
5.187 7.228 19.321
5.339 7.409 21.881
5.496 7.409 21.881
5.657 7.409 21.881
5.823 7.409 21.881
5.993 7.624 24.344
6.169 7.624 24.344
6.350 7.624 24.344
6.536 7.624 24.344
6.727 7.865 26.694
6.924 7.865 26.694
7.127 7.865 26.694
7.336 8.126 28.988
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7.772 8.126 28.988
8.000 8.411 31.125
8.234 8.411 31.125
8.476 8.411 31.125
8.724 8.720 33.274
8.980 8.720 33.274
9.243 8.720 33.274
9.514 9.051 35.353
9.792 9.051 35.353
10.079 9.425 37.419
10.375 9.425 37.419
10.679 9.834 39.474
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11.314 10.302 41.430
11.645 10.302 41.430
11.986 10.831 43.413
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12.699 11.429 45.284
13.071 11.429 45.284
13.454 12.128 47.088
13.849 12.128 47.088
14.254 12.922 48.803
14.672 13.851 50.329
15.102 13.851 50.329
15.545 14.922 51.714
16.000 16.166 52.858
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16.951 17.643 53.758
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19.585 28.671 52.821
20.159 31.015 51.605
20.749 35.766 48.976
21.357 41.515 44.804
21.983 48.225 38.671
22.627 55.059 29.832
23.290 60.113 18.637
23.973 62.496 6.011
24.675 61.821 -6.647
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228.070 7.205 6.733
234.753 7.234 7.381
241.632 7.262 8.047
248.712 7.294 8.753
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263.501 7.363 10.123
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279.170 7.449 11.444
287.350 7.498 12.103
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304.437 7.586 13.312
313.358 7.633 13.990
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341.719 7.814 16.035
351.732 7.889 16.634
362.039 7.953 17.157
372.647 8.014 17.721
383.567 8.082 18.403
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418.282 8.353 20.099
430.539 8.438 20.586
443.155 8.526 21.092
456.140 8.615 21.614
469.506 8.710 22.138
483.264 8.818 22.683
497.424 8.933 23.186
512.000 9.060 23.693
527.003 9.211 24.142
542.445 9.394 24.405
558.340 9.582 24.292
574.701 9.709 23.827
591.541 9.752 23.373
608.874 9.749 23.269
626.715 9.749 23.343
645.080 9.730 23.630
663.982 9.719 24.173
683.438 9.752 24.920
703.464 9.808 25.591
724.077 9.876 26.299
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767.133 10.079 27.762
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836.565 10.455 29.715
861.078 10.599 30.326
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912.280 10.974 31.599
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1024.000 11.583 32.512
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1989.697 16.029 27.459
2048.000 15.516 29.647
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10623.710 33.146 37.721
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18929.299 42.054 37.502
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20054.893 42.582 37.106
20642.546 41.371 35.125
post #1552 of 1695
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forte_II View Post

I have 2 of these unknown 15's laying around... F20 worthy?

\* This data was exported from DATS the Dayton Audio Test System
* Piston Diameter = 355.6 mm
* f(s)= 24.22 Hz
* R(e)= 6.62 Ohms
* Z(max)= 62.50 Ohms "I Dont understand this one!"
* Q(ms)= 4.477
* Q(es)= 0.531
* Q(ts)= 0.474
* V(as)= 263.100 liters (9.292 cubic feet)
* L(e)= 1.49 mH
* n(0)= 0.67 %
* SPL= 90.37 1W/1m
* M(ms)= 227.30 grams
* C(ms)= 0.19 mm/N
* BL= 20.77

Those specs suggest that these might work ok. Any idea of linear travel? Be a shame if they only had 5 mm of throw.
post #1553 of 1695
How would I check? They arent a cheap looking sub...
post #1554 of 1695
Thread Starter 
Well, I have to test it non-scientifically, cause I don't have a Klippel.

I securely clamp the driver in place, then hook up a big amp and run a sine wave into it at resonance.
I start at a low level, then slowly turn up the volume till I see the cone stop increasing in travel or I hear uncomfortable noises.

This can kill a driver dead.

It is sort of a not enough, not enough, not enough, too much sort of test.

Can also post up pictures and let us see what we're dealing with.
post #1555 of 1695
I got them for free so if I fry one it is not a loss... I have the RSS 390 HF 15 also...
Thanks.
BTW. With the unknown sub
WinSpeaker calls for a 85cuft box with a Q of .5 But only a 5.12 with a Q of .707 Strange.... Maybe DATS is off with the TS numbers?
post #1556 of 1695
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forte_II View Post

I got them for free so if I fry one it is not a loss... I have the RSS 390 HF 15 also...
Thanks.
BTW. With the unknown sub
WinSpeaker calls for a 85cuft box with a Q of .5 But only a 5.12 with a Q of .707 Strange.... Maybe DATS is off with the TS numbers?

That box size is because the Qe of the driver is high. When Qe gets close to the Q of the system, the box gets very large.

If they are heavy-cone, heavy surround 15s, the DATS may not have enough power to move the cone sufficiently for accurate parameters. I've not compared results from my DATS to my WT2 and home-made high power rig yet.
post #1557 of 1695
Thanks, The cone is paper and the surround is fairly thin rubber so I think it is just a odd ball sub. The magnet structure is made of 8 2.25" magnets side by side in a circle sandwitched between 2 steel plates.
I just put one in a 4.5cuft sealed box I have with 550 watts and the bass is not very impressive...

Sorry for getting off topic. smile.gif
post #1558 of 1695
take a pic and post it in here, chances are we can identify it.
post #1559 of 1695
Their ar six magnets not eight. The only markings are 5501705, 8 ohm, made in Taiwan...
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/42617308/Speaker/speaker1.JPG
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/42617308/Speaker/speaker2.JPG
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/42617308/Speaker/speakers3.JPG

Thanks for the help.
post #1560 of 1695
might be ok, might not. Maybe just build 1 and throw the sub in and see how it sounds. If it doesnt work order the right driver.

the sub doesn't look terribly impressive but neither does the mfw15. I'm sure mike will chime in on it when he sees the pics.
Edited by stormwind13 - 2/20/13 at 2:53pm
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