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Emotiva

post #1 of 28
Thread Starter 
So, I am just discovering Emotiva now. I have been doing the research and for my needs, a UPA-5 is exactly what I would need only they are out of stock and I cannot find it online.

MY question is this. I do not listen to music at ALL. My HT is for watching movies, gaming, and TV. I have a 5.1 system right now. Mostly Polk Audio speakers. I have crappy surrounds at the moment but am upgrading soon.

What would be a good AMP. The XPA models are a TAD out of my price range at the $900 mark. Have kids and a wife wallet blocking me.

I guess what I am looking for is a good amp to power my center and front surrounds. the back surrounds can wait.

Any ideas?
post #2 of 28
Your receiver does not have the necessary pre-outs to drive an external amp, so you'd first have to replace it prior to adding an amp.
post #3 of 28
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by putox1051 View Post

Your receiver does not have the necessary pre-outs to drive an external amp, so you'd first have to replace it prior to adding an amp.

Sorry, I should stated that I am in the process of buying mutiple pieces of gear at once.

RX-A800
Polk Audio TSi-400's

And then I am looking at an amp. My sig is currently what I have but the wife is allowing me to upgrade as long as I try to keep it around the 2G marke, preferably lower.
post #4 of 28
May also be worth pointing out that your satellites may not need all that juice. You could stick with an XPA-3 for your front speakers, and leave the rest on your receiver. If you're big on modern gaming and Movies, most of that is going to be on the front three speakers anyway.

I picked up a UPA-5 last year as part of Emotiva's Holiday pricing special...I haven't regretted it one moment.
post #5 of 28
avr's pre-outs

denon 900 series, a2000 a 3000
onkyo 700 series and up..


if you wanna so a complete monoblock configuration the upa-1's will set you 3.5k, xpa-1's are around 11k


processors
denon avp
onkyo 5507, 5508, 5509
umc-1
xmc-1
emo pro line

how many channels do you want??
post #6 of 28
http://emotivalounge.proboards.com/i...y&thread=17644

Check this XPA-3 out, it will give you a 3db increase for your LCR channels.
post #7 of 28
Thread Starter 
Thanks guys, yeah I am not expert here and am certainly not looking to build the best system around.

Basically I am looking to build a decent system. Receiver, nice speakers, good power, and if an amp is needed, great, if not, that is also good.

I have the list narrowed down to everything but the amp.

So, thank you for replying.
post #8 of 28
I would just use the A800 and spend the extra money on better speakers instead of an amp. The small improvement (if any) would not be worth the extra 700 while spending 700 more on speaker would probably give you an audible improvement depending on which speakers you get. Or skip the amp and spend 700 on a nice subwoofer.

By the way. I just got a Panasonic 50ST30 and I love it. I'm only about 7 feet from the screen but I’m still wondering if I should go back for the 55. I love the Panasonic. The picture kills my little Samsung 40A630.
post #9 of 28
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjpearce023 View Post

I would just use the A800 and spend the extra money on better speakers instead of an amp. The small improvement (if any) would not be worth the extra 700 while spending 700 more on speaker would probably give you an audible improvement depending on which speakers you get. Or skip the amp and spend 700 on a nice subwoofer.

By the way. I just got a Panasonic 50ST30 and I love it. I'm only about 7 feet from the screen but I'm still wondering if I should go back for the 55. I love the Panasonic. The picture kills my little Samsung 40A630.

Good points. I am running a PSW110 sub right now. It may not be the "best on the market" but I love the DEEP bass it fired off. I had a Bose sub before this one and believe it or not, this is much better than what I had.

Yeah, the ST30 is amazing. I am loving this TV so much but I am struggling with paying the $399 for the Avatar starter kit. I am considering the Sammy 6500 that comes with it.
post #10 of 28
^^^^

I got the Avatar kit but I'm going to return it. I didn't get the TV for 3D but I thought I would try it out. After 30 minutes of 3D yesterday I had a booming headache. I will try again tonight and if I get a headache again I will return the 3D kit.

I'm not surprised the Polk sub it better than the Bose bass module. Another sub is just one option. I got a Def Tech that was better than my Klipsch sub but I decided to use both. It would probably be better to use the 2 of the same subwoofer but the bass for movies is awesome. The size of the room has a lot to do with weather or not the sub will be enough.
post #11 of 28
Hadn't thought about the speaker angle, but mjpearce023 is absolutely right. You may want to hold on until you hear how the Polk Audio's sound with that receiver.

How big a room are you working with?
post #12 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by chemical360 View Post

Good points. I am running a PSW110 sub right now. It may not be the "best on the market" but I love the DEEP bass it fired off. I had a Bose sub before this one and believe it or not, this is much better than what I had.

Yeah, the ST30 is amazing. I am loving this TV so much but I am struggling with paying the $399 for the Avatar starter kit. I am considering the Sammy 6500 that comes with it.

The truth is anything is better than Bose so it's not surprising that the Polk is also, but to to tell you the truth, the polk doesn't stand a chance against other popular subs on this forum. If you ask around on here for advice on which sub to get, polk would be near the bottom. Save the money and get a much better sub. I'd suggest you sell your sub and get http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/vtf-15h.html. It'll rock your world quite literally.

Edit: I just noticed also you're lack of quality speakers. Forget the polk, that's not even in the ballpark you should be looking at. People who buy separate amps usually have speakers in the $1k+ range each speaker. You would gain literally nothing if you spent your money buying an external amp. Keep your current receiver and spend your $2k elsewhere.

Here's what I suggest:
Ascend Acoustic:
CMT-340 SE mains/Left and Right Pair
CMT-340 SE mains/Center
CBM-170 SE pair/Rear Left and Right
Total $1,118

Hsu Research:
VTF-15H (subwoofer)
$879

Edit2: If you buy used, you'd get even more. Here's an Audiogon sale of the Ascends for half the price new.
http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls....-340CMTse-fron That includes left, right, center, AND stands. That's one hell of a bargain, but too bad it's local pickup only. If you're willing to wait, you'll find similarly good deals.
post #13 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by chemical360 View Post

Good points. I am running a PSW110 sub right now. It may not be the "best on the market" but I love the DEEP bass it fired off. I had a Bose sub before this one and believe it or not, this is much better than what I had.

If you like DEEP bass, I suggest you trade up your sub to a Hsu or a SVS PB12-NSD. Your sub's -3 db point is 40hz, my SVS PB12-NSD measures in my room flat to 20hz!

I agree with others, get better speakers first. Look at SVS or Ascends, dollar for dollar they'll be better than Polks.
post #14 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by DougMac View Post

If you like DEEP bass, I suggest you trade up your sub to a Hsu or a SVS PB12-NSD. Your sub's -3 db point is 40hz, my SVS PB12-NSD measures in my room flat to 20hz!

I agree with others, get better speakers first. Look at SVS or Ascends, dollar for dollar they'll be better than Polks.

You forgot to mention that what he hears isn't even "deep" so his impression might be a bit off. Members on this forum refer to deep bass as frequencies below 20Hz. What he's hearing is most likely midbass slam, which is an entirely different animal. Either way, he'd be better served with a much much better sub like the Hsu.
post #15 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by chemical360 View Post

Good points. I am running a PSW110 sub right now. It may not be the "best on the market" but I love the DEEP bass it fired off. I had a Bose sub before this one and believe it or not, this is much better than what I had.

Yeah, the ST30 is amazing. I am loving this TV so much but I am struggling with paying the $399 for the Avatar starter kit. I am considering the Sammy 6500 that comes with it.

Keep your eye on fleabay they have used or new avatar kits for much much less money
post #16 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by yelnatsch517 View Post


The truth is anything is better than Bose so it's not surprising that the Polk is also, but to to tell you the truth, the polk doesn't stand a chance against other popular subs on this forum. If you ask around on here for advice on which sub to get, polk would be near the bottom. Save the money and get a much better sub. I'd suggest you sell your sub and get http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/vtf-15h.html. It'll rock your world quite literally.

Edit: I just noticed also you're lack of quality speakers. Forget the polk, that's not even in the ballpark you should be looking at. People who buy separate amps usually have speakers in the $1k+ range each speaker. You would gain literally nothing if you spent your money buying an external amp. Keep your current receiver and spend your $2k elsewhere.

Here's what I suggest:
Ascend Acoustic:
CMT-340 SE mains/Left and Right Pair
CMT-340 SE mains/Center
CBM-170 SE pair/Rear Left and Right
Total $1,118

Hsu Research:
VTF-15H (subwoofer)
$879

Edit2: If you buy used, you'd get even more. Here's an Audiogon sale of the Ascends for half the price new.
http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls....-340CMTse-fron That includes left, right, center, AND stands. That's one hell of a bargain, but too bad it's local pickup only. If you're willing to wait, you'll find similarly good deals.

This reply interest me. Do my B and W speakers benefit from external amps? I have the cm9s and cmc2.
post #17 of 28
Thread Starter 
Well, being a bass player my entire life, i thought i knew what deep bass was. I guess i dont. Maybe i should just connect SM-400 and Goliath 4x10's.

Either way, this sub is great for me right now. The bass it gives off during movies rattles my recliner. Now i dont know what kind of bass that is, deep or "slam" but it sounds nice.

Please dont take my posts as sarcastic. I know i am know expert which is why i am here. I appreciate all the advice thus far and will research every option listed here.

That said, i am off amps now and onto speakers.

Thanks!!!
post #18 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmaschm View Post

This reply interest me. Do my B and W speakers benefit from external amps? I have the cm9s and cmc2.

It depends a lot on what receiver you're using and how big your room is. I tried an amp on my Paradigm 20s and found no difference from the Denon 3310 I am using. My room is small so the Denon has plenty of power in my setup. Just search "more powerful amp sound quality" and you will find a bunch of threads that discuss this topic.
post #19 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjpearce023 View Post

It depends a lot on what receiver you’re using and how big your room is. I tried an amp on my Paradigm 20s and found no difference from the Denon 3310 I am using. My room is small so the Denon has plenty of power in my setup. Just search "more powerful amp sound quality" and you will find a bunch of threads that discuss this topic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tmaschm View Post

This reply interest me. Do my B and W speakers benefit from external amps? I have the cm9s and cmc2.

What MJPearce said. It depends on what receiver you're using and whether you're pushing it's output capability. I don't know if you were asking a serious question or trying to imply that I'm wrong as it's hard to distinguish subtleties on a forum, but most people would agree it's not a good idea to spend $1k+ for an external amp to power speakers that cost $300 retail.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chemical360 View Post

Well, being a bass player my entire life, i thought i knew what deep bass was. I guess i dont. Maybe i should just connect SM-400 and Goliath 4x10's.

Either way, this sub is great for me right now. The bass it gives off during movies rattles my recliner. Now i dont know what kind of bass that is, deep or "slam" but it sounds nice.

Please dont take my posts as sarcastic. I know i am know expert which is why i am here. I appreciate all the advice thus far and will research every option listed here.

That said, i am off amps now and onto speakers.

Thanks!!!

Look at the frequency response of your Polk and of the Goliath you listed. You should keep in mind that very very few music pieces even come close to the low frequencies found in HT. Bass guitar is considered midbass for HT. If you want to get to real deep bass, you'd have to look into pipe organs that go down in to the single digit frequencies. If you take a look at the specs of the speakers I posted you'd see they nearly reach the "bass" levels you're getting from your Polk and your Goliath.

Ascend CMT-340SE
Frequency Response (Anechoic) 48Hz - 24kHz +/- 3dB

I suggest you visit the Subwoofer or DIY forum here on AVS. Rattling recliners is child's play. People here have setups that will literally shake loose things bolted to the walls.

Check out these:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1314884
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1266665
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1313021
Each of those subwoofer drivers weigh over 80 pounds and when played can rock a 300 pound enclosure back and forth.
post #20 of 28
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by yelnatsch517 View Post


What MJPearce said. It depends on what receiver you're using and whether you're pushing it's output capability. I don't know if you were asking a serious question or trying to imply that I'm wrong as it's hard to distinguish subtleties on a forum, but most people would agree it's not a good idea to spend $1k+ for an external amp to power speakers that cost $300 retail.

Look at the frequency response of your Polk and of the Goliath you listed. You should keep in mind that very very few music pieces even come close to the low frequencies found in HT. Bass guitar is considered midbass for HT. If you want to get to real deep bass, you'd have to look into pipe organs that go down in to the single digit frequencies. If you take a look at the specs of the speakers I posted you'd see they nearly reach the "bass" levels you're getting from your Polk and your Goliath.

Ascend CMT-340SE
Frequency Response (Anechoic) 48Hz - 24kHz +/- 3dB

In fact, many speakers reach down to below 30Hz. If you're happy with your setup now, then that's fine. Just don't visit any AVS forum member's houses because once you hear someone else's setup you'd realize just how much you're actually missing. If you don't believe me, make a thread in the Subwoofer forum.

No no, i think you are missing my point. I am new to the home HT game which is why i am here asking questions. The thing about my Goliath was a joke.

I take everything people tell me seriously and take away responses and do the research.

I appreciate your comments and everyone elses. My issue is i need to figure out how to create the best HT i can while keep a smile on the wallet trolls face.

She bought me the polk so i dont have a choice. Based on this thread, i am starting at upgrading the receiver, probably the A800 or a used Elite off fleabay.

Then front speakers and center channel, checking out some listed here, then rear surrounds then a power stabilizer and finish off with the subs mentioned here.

And now skipping amps as i see i no longer need it.
post #21 of 28
Sorry for being so direct. I tend to have a problem with that. Sorry for the misunderstanding also. You don't need a power stabilizer, that's marketing. You should look for a receiver with pre outs. You could look into Denon and Onkyo as well.

I personally just started getting into HT also last year and it's been a long journey. I'm on these forums literally every single day, reading about 4 or 5 hours. There's so much to learn. I have the Denon 3311 and it's wonderful so far. I purchased it for future proofing with pre outs. I got it when it first came out for a decent price, but now with the new 2011 lineup out soon, it's even cheaper. You could probably snag a brand new one for a bit over $700. It retails for $1200 if I remember correctly. The thing with HT is that there are always good deals sooner or later, you just have to be patient and know what to look for, whether it's from retailer sales or buying used.

I'm also using the Energy RC-70s that are now discontinued. I picked them up when they were clearing out inventory and got in on that. I have 2 pairs of RC-10s and an RC-LCR that are not even being used as I don't even have room for them. I need to buy a new TV stand and wall mounts to mount those. But before that even happens, I'm already considering upgrading speakers. This is an addiction, at least for me. I'm using an old Velodyne sub that's borderline acceptable (to my standards). My first upgrade for my current system would most likely be a new subwoofer and I'm personally looking into the one WarpDrv has in his bedroom, the Funkywaves 18.0. I'm just looking for options to cut down on the cost by going through the DIY route as that's the best bang for the buck anywhere. So now you know my story and hopefully you'll get something out of it as it seems you're just beginning to go through what each and every one of us went through in the beginning.

I edited my post that you replied to, check out the links above.
post #22 of 28
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by yelnatsch517 View Post

Sorry for being so direct. I tend to have a problem with that. Sorry for the misunderstanding also. You don't need a power stabilizer, that's marketing. You should look for a receiver with pre outs. You could look into Denon and Onkyo as well.

I personally just started getting into HT also last year and it's been a long journey. I'm on these forums literally every single day, reading about 4 or 5 hours. There's so much to learn. I have the Denon 3311 and it's wonderful so far. I purchased it for future proofing with pre outs. I got it when it first came out for a decent price, but now with the new 2011 lineup out soon, it's even cheaper. You could probably snag a brand new one for a bit over $700. It retails for $1200 if I remember correctly. The thing with HT is that there are always good deals sooner or later, you just have to be patient and know what to look for, whether it's from retailer sales or buying used.

I'm also using the Energy RC-70s that are now discontinued. I picked them up when they were clearing out inventory and got in on that. I have 2 pairs of RC-10s and an RC-LCR that are not even being used as I don't even have room for them. I need to buy a new TV stand and wall mounts to mount those. But before that even happens, I'm already considering upgrading speakers. This is an addiction, at least for me. I'm using an old Velodyne sub that's borderline acceptable (to my standards). My first upgrade for my current system would most likely be a new subwoofer and I'm personally looking into the one WarpDrv has in his bedroom, the Funkywaves 18.0. I'm just looking for options to cut down on the cost by going through the DIY route as that's the best bang for the buck anywhere. So now you know my story and hopefully you'll get something out of it as it seems you're just beginning to go through what each and every one of us went through in the beginning.

I edited my post that you replied to, check out the links above.

Excellent information here. Yeah i am at the beginning. I started out many years ago when i was 18 with a receiver and a set of JBL fronts. Then i got into music and havent looked back till now, 16 years later. My story is short but the AV game is nothing like I left it.

So yeah, i appreciate all your help. Your posts alone saved me thousands. And my wife will thank you too.

So just to be clear, your assessment is receiver, a quality set of speakers (my addiction as well) , i am using cheap as yamaha because my wife was laid off when i started this project. Then a sub?

What is your take on 7.1? Worth it or just another waste?

Also no power conditioning huh? You dont think there is a benefit to stable power?
post #23 of 28
Forgive this bullcrap post, but I'm driving and can't say what I want for about 30 min. (just wanted to remember this thread)
post #24 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by chemical360 View Post

Excellent information here. Yeah i am at the beginning. I started out many years ago when i was 18 with a receiver and a set of JBL fronts. Then i got into music and havent looked back till now, 16 years later. My story is short but the AV game is nothing like I left it.

So yeah, i appreciate all your help. Your posts alone saved me thousands. And my wife will thank you too.

So just to be clear, your assessment is receiver, a quality set of speakers (my addiction as well) , i am using cheap as yamaha because my wife was laid off when i started this project. Then a sub?

What is your take on 7.1? Worth it or just another waste?

Also no power conditioning huh? You dont think there is a benefit to stable power?

7.1 is great if your room allows for it. It would be much better to have a proper setup 5.1 then a 7.1 that you don’t have room for. If you could post some dimensions of your room then we could give you a little more info. A layout would be nice also if you have time to make one up. I agree with yelnatsch517 about the power conditioner. They are not really needed in most cases but there a few situations where they would be useful. I also agree with throwing the Denon 3311 in the mix. As the 3312 becomes available you will find some nice prices on the 3311. The new 2312 is also a very nice option.
post #25 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by chemical360 View Post

Excellent information here. Yeah i am at the beginning. I started out many years ago when i was 18 with a receiver and a set of JBL fronts. Then i got into music and havent looked back till now, 16 years later. My story is short but the AV game is nothing like I left it.

So yeah, i appreciate all your help. Your posts alone saved me thousands. And my wife will thank you too.

So just to be clear, your assessment is receiver, a quality set of speakers (my addiction as well) , i am using cheap as yamaha because my wife was laid off when i started this project. Then a sub?

What is your take on 7.1? Worth it or just another waste?

Also no power conditioning huh? You dont think there is a benefit to stable power?

First wanted to address the power conditioning issue. Every state and city have their building codes so unless something is seriously messed up with you're wiring, power conditioning wouldn't do anything. Even if it were, the power conditioners you see marketed wouldn't do much good. Electronic equipment are designed to accept power in pretty much anyway possible, regardless of whether it's "clean or not." Remember, what matters is not what goes in; what matters is what comes out. Power conditioners wouldn't change what comes out so it's completely useless. They do look nice though, I'll give them that much.

I agree with MJPearce in that 7.1 is more of a luxury than a necessity, even in large rooms. The money spent on the extra equipment required to run the two extra speakers would be better spent on upgrading existing components.

Since you already have a receiver, is there any features you want that's missing from it? I see that it's got HDMI (4in/1out) and can play back all the latest audio codecs. Is there a particular reason you absolutely need to replace it? New receivers come out every year and prices will just keep dropping. If you aren't missing anything, I suggest you keep your current receiver and upgrade it when you need pre outs or some other feature.

Honestly, the largest noticeable upgrade you could possibly have right now would be to get a full set of speakers, by far. Do some research on what types of speakers you like. Do plenty of reading and auditioning at stores and ask if any forum members who live around you will let you audition their setup. Do you prefer the pro audio route with JBL, Tannoy, JTR, etc. or the more conventional approach with conventional type speakers like Ascend Acoustics, B&W, Energy, SVS, etc.? Find out what you like first. There are pros and cons to everything and one of the most important things I learned about speakers recently is compromise. There is no one perfect speaker. Each and every speaker is designed with tradeoffs (laws of physics). It's up to the listener to decide which ones he's willing to tolerate. One thing though is that since you're going full HT and disregarding music, you might prefer the pro audio sound. They're better suited for HT with better dynamics and controlled directivity (fancy word for controlling where the sound goes, aka in a focused beam instead of everywhere). Ask around on the DIY and speaker forum here on AVS and you'll receive tons of help.
post #26 of 28
Thread Starter 
Ok, a couple of people asked so I will post it. My room is long but not very wide. I believe we measuered it at 13'x22'. We initially had the room set up within the 13' but I bought my wife Kinect for Christmas and with the component rack and the new sectional that sticks out quite a bit, we could not get optimal distance for Kinect.

So we moved everything around and have the TV on the far wall, the long way. My recliner is about 9' to 12' away from the TV at this moment.

I have the TV on the far wall, the subwoofer to the right if you are facing it.

BUT, we are hopefully moving to a new house in a few months that will have a much larger living room. I haven't measuered it yet but eyeballing it when we viewed it I would guess it was about 19x19, more of a square.

Ok, so here is what I am planning so far based on all the help you guys have given me. I have been all over fleabay looking and I can get some KILLER prices on things.

-Denon Receiver
-Center channel and floor standing fronts STRONGLY considering the Ascend's at the moment.
-A pair of surrounds most likely the same brand as the fronts (I like uniformity with branding, it is an OCD thing.

To answer the question of what is wrong with my current receiver? Nothing. I have loved it since the day I bought it.

There are a few minor annoyances such as the "click" when I turn the system on, the couple second delay from power up to sound and no 3D passthrough.

Other than that, I love it quite a bit and never considered replacing it until I decided to redo the entire system.

I like the advice of starting by replacing the speakers and waiting for a possible Denon price drop.

Edit: Does anyone think the receiver I have is decent enough for a top rated pair of speakers? I mean, I wasn't all that impressed with the power output personally, but again, I am a newb so what do others think?
post #27 of 28
If you do go with a Denon AVR, make sure you purchase from an authorized reseller otherwise Denon will not honor the warranty, which, based on their networking models the past 2 years has been needed.
post #28 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by DougMac View Post


If you like DEEP bass, I suggest you trade up your sub to a Hsu or a SVS PB12-NSD. Your sub's -3 db point is 40hz, my SVS PB12-NSD measures in my room flat to 20hz!


I agree with others, get better speakers first. Look at SVS or Ascends, dollar for dollar they'll be better than Polks.

I agree, I had a crappy sub until I upgraded to Hsu VTF3 MK4 and boy everything comes to life now.
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