or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Plasma Flat Panel Displays › Samsung Plasma Internal Crack and Samsung's Response (ongoing)
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Samsung Plasma Internal Crack and Samsung's Response (ongoing)

post #1 of 176
Thread Starter 
I must admit up front, I'm not sure what I expect out of this post. Sympathy, support, skepticism, information, or just getting shedding some light on this issue, I'm not sure. I must also apologize, this is probably going to be a bit long.

Before the Plasma
This ongoing saga started back just over a month ago when my wife and I decided to buy a new TV and that TV would be a Samsung UN55D8000 (I know this is a plasma forum, I'm getting there). It had been 8 years since my last TV and I wanted to get something nice. Within 20 minutes of plugging it in, it developed a black line that stretched across 3/4 of the screen. It went back and we received an identical replacement. Right out of the box I noticed that along the entire left and bottom sides, there was a 1/4 line that was about 20% brighter than the rest of the screen, as if the diffusion or polarizing material in the lcd panel was cut too small. While not an outright failure like the lines across the screen, it was a problem and not one I was willing to live with for $3k.

The PN59D8000
At this point, my seller suggests I might be happier with a Plasma screen. I had nothing to loose per-se, so I agreed and we were shipped a PN59D8000, the plasma sister to our defective TV's.

The screen was beautiful out of the box. The first thing I noticed was that the netflix app wasn't working. We called Netflix who offered no help, and Samsung who opened a ticket and promised to call us back (but never did). An online rep at the cnet forums offered some instructions for resetting the tv that worked, so we left it at that.

As it was my 3rd TV, I hadn't bothered to set up the qwerty remote right away, but when I did I realized it failed to pair. I tried the 3d glasses as well and they refused to pair. So another called to Samsung to fix our bluetooth issues.

To their credit Samsung actually followed through and arranged to have a Tech come out the next week (one week to the day after the TV arrived).

The authorized techs came out and laid the TV down, opened up the back and replaced the bluetooth receiver board. They put it all back together and all was well. The bluetooth worked and we watched several movies that weekend including Megamind in 3D.

The Crack
Monday morning (one week since the repair, two since the TV arrived) we watched TV and got ready for the day. My wife left to take my son to school and I left for work. Everything was great.

After taking my son to work and going to the YMCA, my wife came home (about 2 hours later) and tried to turn the TV on. It did not turn on. Thinking the remote was screwed up (it's a harmony, so sometimes stuff happens) she went to turn on the TV manually. Nothing happened.

It was then that she noticed a small crack underneath the glass front. With the black filter in place it was barely visible, but she knew something was wrong. I told her to take a pic and call Samsung. I left work early to come home and check it out.

Samsung immediately said that since it was a crack, it was "physical damage" and not covered. We asked how it was damage when no one was in the house to damage it. They basically implied were lying and it was not covered.

Okay, so we got pretty ticked off at this point. We started looking around for help and information. I called up our seller to see if he would be willing to take back a 3rd TV. To their credit he didn't say no outright, but also didn't offer to take it back and suggested we pursue it with Samsung further.

In our research it turns out this a not uncommon problem, *especially* with Samsung. We found dozens of cases in the past year or two of this exact thing happening and even found a thread at cnet with over 300 posts from the past year up to today, with the same story repeated over and over again. Screen cracks for no reason, Samsung blames the buyer and refuses to honor the warranty.

So back to Samsung, we call again and this time they ask for pictures. I am an amature photographer so I do my best to oblige. Our first thought was to demonstrate the fact that the crack was no-where near the edge (at least 8" from the center to any edge) - to show that if it was something we caused in mis-handling the tv, it would show up on on the edge and spread out. And to also demonstrate that the front glass was completely untouched, not even a fingerprint.

So we get sent back for re-evaluation. We call back later and it was denied again, we push back again stressing that we weren't even home at the time and besides it should be physically impossible to damage the interior without so much as a mark on the exterior. My wife used the analogy, it would be like a baseball hitting a double pane window, breaking the inside one without touching the outside one. We figured we had physics on our side.

We eventually get bumped up to the Executive Support Center, where we continue to get the same line. We make the same arguments back and keep pushing.

What Now
So that's were we are at. Samsung so far even refuses to send a tech to verify what we are telling them. As far as i'm concerned they don't even have firsthand evidence to make their accusations on, only our pictures, which show the crack as well as showing the completely unmarred outer glass.

As far as Samsung is concerned a spider web style crack demonstrates an impact, which of course it can, but i can also just as easily demonstrate a pressure point such as a screw that was put on too tight, or too much thermal expansion and contraction against an internal component.

Our best guess is that the screen was inadvertently stresses when it was being worked on by the techs the week prior. Any minor stress fracture would then weaken with the thermal expansion of normal use to eventually fail catastrophically.

The fact is, we don't know how this crack appeared, other than it was not us that did it. We are also bolstered by the fact that no other plasma manufactures seems to have so many reports of this very problem than Samsung. Whether Samsung truly has a design defect, a problem with manufacturing, or a mandate to deny warranty claims - thereby encouraging more people to complain, I don't know.

At this point, I don't know what our options are. The most likely next steps are complaints to the BBB, the FTC, and possibly most effective, the New Jersey Attorney Generals Office. From what I've read the BBB almost literally just passes along whatever memo Samsung sends them and closes the case. I don't know what the FTC can do other than log the case. But apparently people have had some luck petitioning the Attorney General, in fact apparently if you do so, you are automatically added to some class action suite the office has open against Samsung. I don't know the details though.

We're prepared for an all out battle of wills here. As far as I'm concerned they have a faulty product and are calling us liars in order to get out of honoring their warranty. I am also currently out almost $3k, not a small sum of money, and I have no TV and an a whole bunch of home theater devices that I cannot use. I can't watch my Netflix discs, which is burning money, I can't play my xbox, ps3, wii, etc.

I know these are petty problems to have, but I paid honest money to Samsung and I expect a reliable product in return. I cannot tell anyone to avoid buying from Samsung, but do encourage people to read my story and put themselves in my shoes for a moment and think about how they would react in this situation.

Even if I do eventually get a working TV out of this in the end, I would have strong reservations about purchasing from Samsung in the future.
post #2 of 176
A sad story but you really have one option here. Home owners insurance claim. I know you don't want to hear that but Samsung won't help. Also, where did you order it from. There is a list of 2 to 3 vendors I would ever buy from

I would have NEVER accepted repair on a tv less than 30 days old.

Sorry mate, your in a bad spot for sure
post #3 of 176
You could file small claims against them. Make them fly someone over to represent them. Chances are, they'd just settle.
post #4 of 176
Thread Starter 
Homeowners insurance does not cover this... already looked into it. Not an act of God or vandalism.
post #5 of 176
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suzook View Post

A sad story but you really have one option here. Home owners insurance claim. I know you don't want to hear that but Samsung won't help. Also, where did you order it from. There is a list of 2 to 3 vendors I would ever buy from

Home Owners (at least ours) doen't cover it unless it's vadalized or stolen.

Quote:


I would have NEVER accepted repair on a tv less than 30 days old.

It was my 3rd Samsung TV in month so I was hesitant to send it back, and I was hoping it would be a tweak or reset in the service menu or something.

Quote:


Sorry mate, your in a bad spot for sure

Yeah, tell me about it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dlplover View Post

You could file small claims against them. Make them fly someone over to represent them. Chances are, they'd just settle.

We've considered that, but it seems the Attorney General's office is a more promising avenue, but one I still hope to avoid.
post #6 of 176
Take it up with your credit card company. Explain everything that happened. They may be able to cancel the charge on your card if you haven't reached the end of your billing cycle.
post #7 of 176
Wow.....this does make me consider buying the PN64D8000 after all. Thanks for the info. Hope you can resolve this.
post #8 of 176
sorry to hear about your ordeal. you've definitely been way too unlucky with your tv purchase. are you no longer able to exchange with the place you bought it from? if not, then i like the idea of contacting your credit card company to see if they can do anything about it. also, are you able to post the pics of the crack so we can get a better idea of what's going on with your tv?
post #9 of 176
Ok, I've read through that Cnet thread but I'm curious, just how widespread this problem is and what years/models seem to be most affected...It seems like a lot of the sets in question in that thread were the A or B series.

The reason I'm asking is because I'm extremely paranoid about things going wrong with my new 58C8000. I originally purchased a 50VT25 from ABC warehouse that literally shut itself off and started the 7 flashing light sequence 2 hours out of the box...so I had to FIGHT with ABC to take it back because they were saying that since I had "used" it, it was now my problem and I had to wait for a repair company to come and try to fix it. Long story short, I was able to return the VT25 and instead got the deal on the 58C8000. I have a feeling that if I develop any problems with this set there is ZERO chance of returning it based on my experience.

I've already read about the buzzing, (which I do have a little bit of but nothing too annoying) the blinking (which I think I might have experienced but could have just been a skip with the Dish Network signal since thats the only source that it's happened with, which was 3 or 4 times but its been really windy the last few days) and now I have this to worry about....

Is there anything else I need to know about??
post #10 of 176
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsnake21 View Post


Is there anything else I need to know about??

Even though I had a statistically improbable number of problems, chances are your TV will be just fine.

In the few weeks I've spent with this tv and the previous TV's it replaced, I didn't experience any unexpected blinking or dropouts. The netflix app will drop-out from time to time, but that's netflix changing the bandwidth quality. I know the xbox version will give you a message as such, but the samsung app doesn't tell you when it's doing it.

Any other time was when my tivo or other devices changes resolutions, which was normal.

And before the crack nightmare, to their credit Samsung did make good on fixing the bluetooth problem. My Netflix activation was left hanging by support, but I got it fixed through other means. My complaint with Samsung is strictly over the crack issue.

So, you'll most likely be fine and your set will provide entertainment for years to come. Relax and enjoy.
post #11 of 176
I think Samsung went a little too far making the TV and the bezel so thin. No support for the glass on the bigger screens. Between stress during shipment and the heating and cooling it just seems there is an excessive risk of this happening. Odd that they laid it down to work on it. One screw over tightened might be all it takes. One of the many reasons I am looking at the ST30 Panny.
post #12 of 176
Have you considered that the repair company may have caused this? Is your TV hung or on the stand? If it is wall mounted, perhaps a bracket screw is tightened to exceed the maximum depth when putting the TV back together and heat expansion caused a pressure crack? I know that you have to be very careful in selecting the proper screws when installing a wall mount bracket.
post #13 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsnake21 View Post

Ok, I've read through that Cnet thread but I'm curious, just how widespread this problem is and what years/models seem to be most affected...It seems like a lot of the sets in question in that thread were the A or B series.

The reason I'm asking is because I'm extremely paranoid about things going wrong with my new 58C8000. I originally purchased a 50VT25 from ABC warehouse that literally shut itself off and started the 7 flashing light sequence 2 hours out of the box...so I had to FIGHT with ABC to take it back because they were saying that since I had "used" it, it was now my problem and I had to wait for a repair company to come and try to fix it. Long story short, I was able to return the VT25 and instead got the deal on the 58C8000. I have a feeling that if I develop any problems with this set there is ZERO chance of returning it based on my experience.

I've already read about the buzzing, (which I do have a little bit of but nothing too annoying) the blinking (which I think I might have experienced but could have just been a skip with the Dish Network signal since thats the only source that it's happened with, which was 3 or 4 times but its been really windy the last few days) and now I have this to worry about....

Is there anything else I need to know about??

I've had to deal with ABC Warehouse before. They are to be avoided!
post #14 of 176
You said the technician "came out and laid the TV down". I thought that was generally considered a bad thing to do with a plasma. Is your floor completely flat? Could it have put pressure on the glass and started a stress crack? It could have been very small but thermal stress would have caused it to grow.
Roy
post #15 of 176
i would think about getting a differant tech to come and pull it apart to see if the first repair guy is what caused it.. and if he says yes the first guy did it.. then i would call samsung and let them know what the guy you had come said.. then say.. you want to replace this ? or should we get a attorney and take this to court ? ... i called samsung after i got my 59D550.. after i bought the new set, i found that my 50B550 would have the sound go off and back on sometimes.. i figured it was just in my direct tv.. but then the 59 never did it.. so i figured it was something wrong with the 50B550 because it had done it the whole time i had it, it wasn't to bad and i could have lived with it.. so i call samsung and they said ok..we will extend the warrinty on the 50 because it just had run out about 25 days ago.. i said ok.. they said they would send a tech.. so about 2 days later samsung calls me and says there is no repair guy in this area.. they said would you be willing to just switch out the set, i said yes that would be fine.. i asked what set are they going to replace it with.. he said they do not have any B models, that it would be a 51D550.. i said cool.... i just got the new set like 2 days ago.. so for me it was great... i never thought they would do what you are saying.. i feel for you...that sure sucks what they are trying to do to you. i would be pissed..
post #16 of 176
Sounds like nothing can be done.
post #17 of 176
bummer. if you paid by credit card, I'd take it up with the credit card company.
post #18 of 176
Just as much as you'd like us to see it from your side. We have to look at it from there side. Until it's a proven problem. I don't blame them for not covering it. If you were them would you? Nope.
post #19 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by JukeBox360 View Post

Just as much as you'd like us to see it from your side. We have to look at it from there side. Until it's a proven problem. I don't blame them for not covering it. If you were them would you? Nope.

A crack on the outside glass is a definite sign that something came in contact with the screen hard enough to cause damage.

Cracks internal to the set, indicate either some manufacturing defect, or, some pressure on the screen - possibly by the owner, repair tech, or the way the unit is packaged. Proof of one of these is virtually impossible.

If I was the manufacturer, I'd look at the internal crack as being from a cause other than abuse of the set and repair/replace under warranty.

Reading reviews of larger plasma sets shows that broken screens are not uncommon, especially with Samsung sets. The larger the screen size, the more common the problem - upon delivery.

Whether this is caused by the packaging, bezel providing inadequate support, or the thin nature of the sets causing them to be damaged by normal handling is a question that Samsung engineers should be analyzing, by examining damaged sets recouped from warranty replacement.

I would bet that the vast majority of purchasers treat their sets like a prized possession, and rarely touch the set directly after initial setup.
post #20 of 176
I have to say that this has me second guessing Samsung altogether for current and future purchases. I was going to return my 55ST30 for a D6500 but no longer.

Regardless of seeing it from their side or not they should send a tech to verify physical damage or not. The fact they are outright refusing to look at it is bad business.

I would take the tv back to the store and say as far as you know there is no damage. Replace it.
post #21 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by aydu View Post

A crack on the outside glass is a definite sign that something came in contact with the screen hard enough to cause damage.

Cracks internal to the set, indicate either some manufacturing defect, or, some pressure on the screen - possibly by the owner, repair tech, or the way the unit is packaged. Proof of one of these is virtually impossible.

If I was the manufacturer, I'd look at the internal crack as being from a cause other than abuse of the set and repair/replace under warranty.

Reading reviews of larger plasma sets shows that broken screens are not uncommon, especially with Samsung sets. The larger the screen size, the more common the problem - upon delivery.

Whether this is caused by the packaging, bezel providing inadequate support, or the thin nature of the sets causing them to be damaged by normal handling is a question that Samsung engineers should be analyzing, by examining damaged sets recouped from warranty replacement.

I would bet that the vast majority of purchasers treat their sets like a prized possession, and rarely touch the set directly after initial setup.

I'm not saying I don't agree with you. By all means I'd be pissed if this was going on with me as well. Just stating. If I were them. I can see why they wouldn't cover it.
post #22 of 176
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Easter Bunny View Post

Have you considered that the repair company may have caused this? Is your TV hung or on the stand? If it is wall mounted, perhaps a bracket screw is tightened to exceed the maximum depth when putting the TV back together and heat expansion caused a pressure crack? I know that you have to be very careful in selecting the proper screws when installing a wall mount bracket.

Our main line of defense is that either it was a manufacturing/design defect, or inadvertent damage as the result of the repair. I don't mean to imply that the repair guys did anything wrong, from what my wife they seemed competent and professional, though they were completely unfamiliar with how to pair the remote and tv (it was probably the first 2011 model tv they had seen).

It's wall-mounted, but we were very conscious of the tension on the screws, we mostly tightened them by hand. That and the crack is no where near where the bracket is attached.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rmongiovi View Post

You said the technician "came out and laid the TV down". I thought that was generally considered a bad thing to do with a plasma. Is your floor completely flat? Could it have put pressure on the glass and started a stress crack? It could have been very small but thermal stress would have caused it to grow.
Roy

That was our thought, but to be fair the instructions for the TV itself has you lying it down to mount it on the base (though we did not do that).

Quote:
Originally Posted by JukeBox360 View Post

Just as much as you'd like us to see it from your side. We have to look at it from there side. Until it's a proven problem. I don't blame them for not covering it. If you were them would you? Nope.

Fair enough, but historically speaking liability lies with the manufacturer. We have invited them to have a tech come out and verify what we said, but they have so far refused.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aydu View Post

A crack on the outside glass is a definite sign that something came in contact with the screen hard enough to cause damage.

Cracks internal to the set, indicate either some manufacturing defect, or, some pressure on the screen - possibly by the owner, repair tech, or the way the unit is packaged. Proof of one of these is virtually impossible.

If I was the manufacturer, I'd look at the internal crack as being from a cause other than abuse of the set and repair/replace under warranty.

Reading reviews of larger plasma sets shows that broken screens are not uncommon, especially with Samsung sets. The larger the screen size, the more common the problem - upon delivery.

Whether this is caused by the packaging, bezel providing inadequate support, or the thin nature of the sets causing them to be damaged by normal handling is a question that Samsung engineers should be analyzing, by examining damaged sets recouped from warranty replacement.

I would bet that the vast majority of purchasers treat their sets like a prized possession, and rarely touch the set directly after initial setup.

The line that Samsung takes is that it is possible (given the protective coating on the outside of the tv) to impact the tv enough to crack the internal glass without leaving any visible evidence on the outside. On one of the first pages of the cnet thread is a response from the BBB that quotes Samsung saying exactly that.

They have one major fact backing that up, the front screen is apparently plastic, not glass. It feels like glass - cold to the touch and hard - but it is a form of plastic. We called and verified this ourselves (though one support tech incorrectly said it was glass). Plastic *could* bend enough to crack the inside glass without itself breaking.

I personally think such an event would leave an identifying mark, but I'm not a materials engineer.

Anyway, that's what Samsung clings to in all of these cases, whether it's true or not.
post #23 of 176
Has anything else happen today?
post #24 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by JukeBox360 View Post

I'm not saying I don't agree with you. By all means I'd be pissed if this was going on with me as well. Just stating. If I were them. I can see why they wouldn't cover it.

Yeah, just look how likely the customer is to ever buy another Samsung product. And, how many others he tells about his bad experience - not just here but in person.

Unless their is some evidence that the customer was at fault, it seems that Samsung is being penny wise and pound foolish.

Replacing the set immediately would have generated a customer for life type mentality for the customer, and, good word of mouth for years to come.
post #25 of 176
I haven't read the CNet thread, so maybe it is there, but have you tried to elevate your case within Samsung? Get a hold of some regional level people? You can also try what I've seen called the "Executive Email Carpet Bomb", where you look up some executive names from their website and then try and figure out how they do their email addresses. Sometimes clues will be on the site or a press release for their marketing/PR people. If the VP of N. American sales is John Smith, and the press release says to contact frank.johnson@samsung.com, then you can take a stab at sending your story to john.smith@samsung.com and hope its this VP or whatever other C-Suite guys you can find.

Other than that, I'd check your credit card's "purchase protection" like some people have mentioned. I just looked up AmEx, and they only cover up to $1k for damaged or stolen items within 90 days of purchase, but it may be better than nothing.
post #26 of 176
That is a difficult situation you are in, I hope it works out for you and Samsung ends up willing to help out in some way. I read about a lot of grief some of these TVs bring into peoples lives. I wonder is it worth it and where is the fun. Kind of glad I bought a base model TV for 550 dollars. If I woke up tomorrow and the TV was broken, I would be upset, but not nearly as upset if I had spent several thousands of dollars on it. Plus saves me from freaking out every time the kids are throwing balls around the house, lol.
post #27 of 176
My Samsung 50" plasma has an internal crack which happened without an impact. I turned on the TV one day and no picture. I examined the TV and found the small crack on the INSIDE panel. Not a mark on the outside - nothing. Mine has a small "star" crack. They sent out 2 techs from a 3rd party company and they basically took photos (with an ancient cell phone) and sent them to Samsung.

So far, Samsung has denied any warranty support as they are saying it's "physical damage" (their stock response). I did get a call back from the President's office and discussed the matter with their representative. She took my case to the Samsung engineers at her office and said that after looking at the photos, they still consider this physical damage. I reiterated that the TV worked one day and stopped working the next and no one was in the same room between those days. This TV was barley 2 months old when this happened and I would know if it was impacted because it is in a location that only I use. She stated the impact could have happened previously. WHEN? I purchased this TV at Best Buy, brought it to my studio, put it on the stand and that's it. I would know if I hit the TV with something! I suggested "maybe" this happened during the factory assembly or "maybe" I have a panel that had defective glass. Could they rule this out? No answer.

I have been following the CNET forums as well - many people with similar stories. Are all these people lying? I encourage people with non-impacted cracked panels to complain to Samsung because I think they do have a problem with defective panels on some of their plasma TV's.
post #28 of 176
When they say, 'physical damage', one should say, 'physical defect'; along with photo proof of no damage to the front of the panel, of course.
post #29 of 176
Welcome to Samsung.

You never run into these problems with Panasonic, Mitsubishi, Toshiba, Sharp(Aquos) or LG.
post #30 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by schan1269 View Post

Welcome to Samsung. You never run into these problems with Panasonic, Mitsubishi, Toshiba, Sharp(Aquos) or LG.

While most of such posts are about a Samsung, there are a few people here who have had this happen on their LG and Panasonic plasma TVs. Screen suddenly cracks while just watching TV. Samsung has warranteed the TV for a few of these people when the technician was able to convince Samsung that the crack happened internally, not from external impact.

Mitsubishi, Toshiba, and Sharp do not make Plasma TVs so you can take them off your list for this issue.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Plasma Flat Panel Displays
AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Plasma Flat Panel Displays › Samsung Plasma Internal Crack and Samsung's Response (ongoing)