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Samsung Plasma Internal Crack and Samsung's Response (ongoing) - Page 3

post #61 of 176
For sets that have developed these internal cracks on the screen, are they wall mounted or on stands?

Wall mounted sets develop different pressure points vs those sitting on the stand. There is also the possibility of over tightening the screws holding the back plate to the set, causing a crack when the parts expand due to heat.

????
post #62 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by aydu View Post

Binding arbitration would not be a bad soluton to these type issues.

It would provide an quick, inexpensive method of dispute resolution.

Class action laswuits only make money for the lawyers involved. If a claimant lives long enough to see a decision, he will be lucky to see pennies on the dollar for his cliam.

Samsung just needs somebody other than their own people deciding that the customer must have done something other than just buying what they thought was a quality made product.

Yes it would. There've been reports on arbitration and they almost always favor the corporations. They're also encouraged through incentives and desire to keep a low payout rate to side against the consumer. Class actions may not pay a huge amount to customers, but they're designed exactly to handle situations where many customers were ripped off for a small amount. More importantly, they present an avenue to holding corporations accountable for bad behavior. The fact that individual customers may not get a whole lot matters less than the fact that the company has to pony up a hefty fine and reform their practices if they don't want more fines. The current supreme court is dominated by pro-corporate ideology, rather than adherence to the constitution or at least the country's citizens.
post #63 of 176
So I take it the op is still stuck with a broken set.
post #64 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by JukeBox360 View Post

So I take it the op is still stuck with a broken set.

I was wondering the same thing. Update?
post #65 of 176
If the problem isn't fixed, I recommend small claims court. Prepare the case carefully, but it sounds like a winner.
post #66 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuhulin View Post
If the problem isn't fixed, I recommend small claims court. Prepare the case carefully, but it sounds like a winner.
Yep, this is the route to take, should it come to that.

And Aydu, small claims is where you'll actually get your money back. Companies are constantly lobbying to get arbitration expanded to all cases, not just class action which would mean that you'd be forced into arbitration rather than small claims or if you were to file a lawsuit (should the expense justify it). Arbitration nearly always sides with the businesses so it's a terrible solution for customers. Small claims is best for low-dollar items (should it come to that) and individual lawsuits if substantial individual damages were the blame of the company. Class action usually has little benefit for the consumer, but it does harm the company and arbitration does essentially nothing for the consumer.
post #67 of 176
I agree that small claims is a viable route. I've personally had good experience with arbitration cases, using the more probable than not theory to resolve grey issues.

Certainly seems that in many of these cases it's more likely than not that this is a manufacturing issue. Exceptions would be if used with gaming controllers like WII, or, self mounting - where the screws might have been too long and damaged the set.

Anybody going either route should be prepared to testify about these issues.
post #68 of 176
Sorry to hear about the predicament that you're in with Samsung. Some of us are of an age when the name Samsung always meant crappy (as bad as bad gets) electronics (long before they were ever in the TV industry). It seems they had made a whole lot of progress as a company, but this cracked glass issue is a HUGE issue for them not to address. I can tell you this...I was VERY close to purchasing the 64 inch D8000, and when I started doing to research, I read a whole lot of stories about Samsung and their "mysterious" cracking glass issue and Samsung not standing behind their product. That made my decision to purchase the 65 inch Panasonic VT30 (even though quite a bit more money) an easy one. Samsung is really dropping the ball by not addressing this issue and blaming the consumer!

John
post #69 of 176
seems it didn't work out for the original poster.
post #70 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by aydu View Post
Binding arbitration would not be a bad soluton to these type issues.

It would provide an quick, inexpensive method of dispute resolution.
Quick and inexpensive (for the company) indeed. The customer loses 90+% of the time and a single arbitrator can burn through 50+ cases a day. That's less than 10 minutes for somebody to review the case to decide that a customer has lost and has no recourse. How efficient. http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/87946
post #71 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by haloimplant View Post
Quick and inexpensive (for the company) indeed. The customer loses 90+% of the time and a single arbitrator can burn through 50+ cases a day. That's less than 10 minutes for somebody to review the case to decide that a customer has lost and has no recourse. How efficient. http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/87946
Yeah, but "he's had good luck with arbitration" so it's all good. Facts and numbers don't matter, duh!
post #72 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by dlplover View Post

Yeah, but "he's had good luck with arbitration" so it's all good. Facts and numbers don't matter, duh!

My arbitration experience has been with a judge and I got a favorable decision in the two situations I was involved with. That's all I can attest to.

Small claims court seems to be a viable option, although I haven't heard of anyone who has been successful with such a case.

Working with Samsung seems to be the least viable option, as they are just stonewalling the customer - even at the executive support level. Unfortunately, the TV repair people are dependent upon the manufacturers for authorized service status and business, so they aren't likely to support the customer on the issue being the manufacturer's fault.

For plasma sets with cracks, some % are due to something hitting the screen; some are due to improper hanging of the unit; and some just spontaneously happen.

Question is, how many fall into each category?

Answer:

Samsung - all are customer caused cracks.
Arbitration - apparently 9/10 are caused by the customer because DSLReports says it's so
Small Claims - ?

Results for Arbitration and Small Claims decisions could be different if the judge/arbitrator has a plasma that cracked on it's own.
post #73 of 176
Thread Starter 
Sorry, I haven't forgotten about this thread. We contacted the president's office, we were denied again, so we are pursuing options outside of working with Samsung.
post #74 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by aydu View Post

My arbitration experience has been with a judge and I got a favorable decision in the two situations I was involved with. That's all I can attest to.

Small claims court seems to be a viable option, although I haven't heard of anyone who has been successful with such a case.

Working with Samsung seems to be the least viable option, as they are just stonewalling the customer - even at the executive support level. Unfortunately, the TV repair people are dependent upon the manufacturers for authorized service status and business, so they aren't likely to support the customer on the issue being the manufacturer's fault.

For plasma sets with cracks, some % are due to something hitting the screen; some are due to improper hanging of the unit; and some just spontaneously happen.

Question is, how many fall into each category?

Answer:

Samsung - all are customer caused cracks.
Arbitration - apparently 9/10 are caused by the customer because DSLReports says it's so
Small Claims - ?

Results for Arbitration and Small Claims decisions could be different if the judge/arbitrator has a plasma that cracked on it's own.

Sorry, but no. Small claims usually works in the customer's favor because the company has to actually send a lawyer to represent them. They often just settle without even going to court. Arbitration puts you in the power of someone employed by the company to decide whether or not the company owes you anything. No offense to your intelligence, but if you ask most grade school kids about that setup, even they'll be able to tell you it's going to work in the company's favor. So you used arbitration a couple times and it worked out for you - good for you. Very happy you got a good result. Your experience runs contrary to the major trends however. Only 6% of rulings favor the consumer. That is not just DSL reports that claims that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Arbitration_Forum

Arbitration was designed for business to business interactions, not consumer interactions with businesses.
post #75 of 176
Thank you for posting this story. You have helped me solidify my decision to purchase a 60" Panasonic GT30 instead of a 59" D7000 or D8000 (I'd prefer a VT30 but 65" would be too large for the room and they don't make a 60" set). I would understand Samsung's perspective on this issue if you had it for a few years, tightened the screws way too hard, and the set was out of warranty. However, you just got the darn thing! This issue, combined with multiple stories I've read about multiple cracked screens upon arrival from the same user, screen peeling (really?), + buzzing problems make it a no-brainer for me. It's a shame because the performance of the sets is actually quite nice, as is the physical design of the bezel itself (love it!). I have two Panasonic plasmas - a five year old 42" 600U and a three year old 50" 85U. I have had absolutely no issues whatsoever and the 85U looks amazing (I just had it calibrated this weekend). Hopefully, my luck will continue when I purchase a 60" GT30 later this summer. I hope that things eventually work out for you and I'm sorry that you are having to deal with this situation!
post #76 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by dlplover View Post

Sorry, but no. Small claims usually works in the customer's favor because the company has to actually send a lawyer to represent them. They often just settle without even going to court. Arbitration puts you in the power of someone employed by the company to decide whether or not the company owes you anything. No offense to your intelligence, but if you ask most grade school kids about that setup, even they'll be able to tell you it's going to work in the company's favor. So you used arbitration a couple times and it worked out for you - good for you. Very happy you got a good result. Your experience runs contrary to the major trends however. Only 6% of rulings favor the consumer. That is not just DSL reports that claims that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Arbitration_Forum

Arbitration was designed for business to business interactions, not consumer interactions with businesses.

Sorry, but if you ask most grade school kids about this situation they'd immediately deny that they broke the TV. Any chance of getting their input on arbitration would be lost.

Seriously, my arbitration results were from arbitration that was defined as a dispute solution mechanism by contract. I may be just lucky to have two positive outcomes in two trys.

I'd be interested in seeing positive results from small claims court actions. This seems to be the only cost effective means of taking the decision out of the hands of the manufacturer - other than arbitration.

If you start sending letters via a lawyer, the cost will quickly eat up the cost of a new set. As everyone knows, class action is a long drawn out process that only seems to benefit the lawyers that manage to certify the class.

I'm very disappointed that Samsung doesn't at least send someone (other than a generic repair guy) out to inspect some of these sets, or at least send the sets into one of their facilities to inspect them inside and out.

Each of these cracked sets shatters that relationship with the customer for life - when they handle the case this poorly.
post #77 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by aydu View Post

Sorry, but if you ask most grade school kids about this situation they'd immediately deny that they broke the TV. Any chance of getting their input on arbitration would be lost.

Seriously, my arbitration results were from arbitration that was defined as a dispute solution mechanism by contract. I may be just lucky to have two positive outcomes in two trys.

Yes, you were just lucky based on statistics.

Quote:
I'd be interested in seeing positive results from small claims court actions. This seems to be the only cost effective means of taking the decision out of the hands of the manufacturer - other than arbitration.

Companies usually settle small claims before it even goes to court since they know there's a professional judge on the case (assuming you have a strong case in your favor).

Quote:
If you start sending letters via a lawyer, the cost will quickly eat up the cost of a new set. As everyone knows, class action is a long drawn out process that only seems to benefit the lawyers that manage to certify the class.

Who said anything about sending letters via lawyer? You can send a notice for small claims via the court for very cheap - order of $10/20 if I recall.

Regarding small claims, there's no doubt it has little benefit to most customers, but in trying to get rid of it, companies are trying to replace it with binding arbitration forcing you to go that route with essentially a judge hired by them. There's a reason they're much happier going to arbitration than going to small claims. They usually settle small claims because they know they don't have much legal grounds if you're in the right and they're screwing you. If it's in arbitration, they have much more influence.

Quote:
I'm very disappointed that Samsung doesn't at least send someone (other than a generic repair guy) out to inspect some of these sets, or at least send the sets into one of their facilities to inspect them inside and out.

Each of these cracked sets shatters that relationship with the customer for life - when they handle the case this poorly.

This we can agree on.
post #78 of 176
Thread Starter 
Ok, so we got a response from the BBB, and I thought I'd post my wife's epic rant in reponse:

Quote:
Originally Posted by BBB.org View Post

On June 01, 2011, the business provided the following information:
According to our files, Samsung has previously contacted the customer regarding this issue. Samsung has advised the customer that the unit has been deemed physical damage by our product support and engineering group. They have reviewed the pictures and evidence of the cracked panel and determined the unit has star crack which is physical damage of a unit. Physical damage voids the units warranty and any assistance that can be offered. Samsung has closed this case as the customer's unit has been deemed physical damage - warranty voided. There is no assistance that will be offered to the customer. We apologize for any inconvenience the customer may have experienced with this case. If you have any further inquiries, please contact Samsung at 888-480-5675 and refer to case # 3000654183. Thank you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cadmium's wife View Post

As Samsung is a manufacturer of some of the highest rated televisions on the market, we are severely disappointed in their unwillingness to stand by their defective merchandise. Because we in NO way caused physical damage to this tv, the only explanation is a manufacturer defect. If you google "samsung internal crack" you will find dozens, if not hundreds of this same instance happening to other consumers. And, while that number is a very small fraction of the amount of televisions that Samsung sells, it is enough to question the validity of Samsung's claim that these customers damaged their own TVs. It is a shame a company of this size will not stand by their product. We did NOT damage this TV, therefore did NOT void the warranty. Samsung even refused to send a technician out to examine the television.

Plain and simple, Samsung KNOWS this is an issue (as evidenced by the numerous complaints and tickets numbers filed with this same problem) and is refusing to honor their warranty, hiding behind a false claim that each and every customer with a crack on the INTERNAL plasma screen damaged it themselves - with no evidence whatsoever of ANYTHING even touching the exterior of the television.

Explain to me and the MANY other angry customers how WE damaged this TV when we weren't even HOME.

Their warranty claims that it covers manufacturing defects in materials and workmanship encountered in normal, and except to the extent otherwise expressly provided for in this statement, noncommercial use of this product, and shall not apply to the following, including, but not limited to: damage which occurs in shipment; delivery and installation; applications and uses for which this product was not intended; altered product or serial numbers; cosmetic damage or exterior finish; accidents, abuse, neglect, fire, water, lightning or other acts of nature...

And because the damage was not caused by anything listed above, Samsung is in VIOLATION of the Magnuson Moss Warranty Act.

I DO NOT accept Samsung's response and this issue is in NO WAY resolved. They have essentially stolen $3000 from us in the form of a defective TV that we owned for 2 weeks.

SHAME on Samsung and shame on the people letting them get away with stealing thousands of dollars from innocent consumers. If they had stepped up to the plate and stood by their products, they would have made lifelong customers. But, from this family of techhies and anybody within the sound of our voice or the view of our web posts - NEVER AGAIN will I purchase anything made by Samsung. NEVER AGAIN.

Yes, we sent that to the BBB
post #79 of 176
That isn't going to do anything. Sorry to say it. But you guys are screwed.
post #80 of 176
Thread Starter 
Yes, we don't expect resolution from this, but it does one thing and that is to bring attention to this issue and leave a record for anyone in the future who has to deal with this stuff.
post #81 of 176
BBB is just a shill for the companies.
Small claims court (or the threat of) is the only way.
I had a Toshiba notebook that died on me, and they wouldn't honor their warranty.
Luckily, a friend who is a a lawyer, told them they could pay up, or fly one of their lawyers from California to the South and expect a trial by jury.
Which is cheaper for them ?
post #82 of 176
Despite this going on. I still love Samsung. Always will.
post #83 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by JukeBox360 View Post

Despite this going on. I still love Samsung. Always will.

Why would you possibly love a company that screws its customers this way (with a track record of this over the years)?
post #84 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillP View Post


Why would you possibly love a company that screws its customers this way (with a track record of this over the years)?

That's the track record that someone else has had. Not me. My very 1st hdtv was a Samsung. I now own 3. Haven't had a single issue with any of them. And the 1st one was purchased back in 05. So my track record with them is completely different from this. I own a Panasonic as well. Thankfully I've yet to come across a problem with them. Until then. I'll love em both.
post #85 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by JukeBox360 View Post

That's the track record that someone else has had. Not me. My very 1st hdtv was a Samsung. I now own 3. Haven't had a single issue with any of them. And the 1st one was purchased back in 05. So my track record with them is completely different from this. I own a Panasonic as well. Thankfully I've yet to come across a problem with them. Until then. I'll love em both.

I have had 4 HDTVs myself, 2 samsungs and 2 pannys. No problems with 3 of them, but one of the 4 was an absolute lemon (let's just say I would never buy another samsung). Too bad since they have excellent PQ.
post #86 of 176
WTF This same thing happened exactly the same way with my Pioneer 5020FD Plasma.
post #87 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trojita View Post

WTF This same thing happened exactly the same way with my Pioneer 5020FD Plasma.

According to a post from you yours happened during a move http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...2#post20509922. The folks posting here did not transport their displays anywhere. There is a difference.
post #88 of 176
Same time. I get what Samsung is saying. The way the crack had been described means there was a point of impact at some point in time. Most likely when they went to wall mount it. Did a screw just a little to tight. Starting the impact. Then over time. The damage grew from the set heating and cooling off. Which is why it did work at one point and stopped later. I can see why Samsung is saying what they said.
post #89 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by JukeBox360 View Post

Same time. I get what Samsung is saying. The way the crack had been described means there was a point of impact at some point in time. Most likely when they went to wall mount it. Did a screw just a little to tight. Starting the impact. Then over time. The damage grew from the set heating and cooling off. Which is why it did work at one point and stopped later. I can see why Samsung is saying what they said.

Interesting point, I doubt the TV's come with screws. So someone has to buy them and read somewhere what the screw length is, also there may be a washer involved which changes the length. Thinking of J6P here, not your techie type(not insinuating anyone here on the forums would lack the skills). If so there would be a witness mark on the inside of the tv where the screw bottomed out. And Samsung would want to go looking for them. Could there be a problem with the flatness of the mount or the way it was tourqued down.

Another thing I wonder about is the thickness of the glass. Did this years tv's go with a thinner pane of glass which might make it easier to crack? One way to save weight.
post #90 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by whipit View Post

Interesting point, I doubt the TV's come with screws. So someone has to buy them and read somewhere what the screw length is, also there may be a washer involved which changes the length. Thinking of J6P here, not your techie type(not insinuating anyone here on the forums would lack the skills). If so there would be a witness mark on the inside of the tv where the screw bottomed out. And Samsung would want to go looking for them. Could there be a problem with the flatness of the mount or the way it was tourqued down.

Another thing I wonder about is the thickness of the glass. Did this years tv's go with a thinner pane of glass which might make it easier to crack? One way to save weight.

I know when I wallmount a set I will look at the recommended length and actually it not to hard to place a skinny item in the hole and see how far it goes down and use the appro. rubber washer not to bottom out.

As for the glass.. these seems to be more a 2009/10 set issue.. How many 2011 sets have cracked ..1 or 2.
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