Sanyo z4000 vs. Mitsubishi hc4000

REVIEW ENTIRELY REWRITTEN

This time Sanyo z4000 vs. Mits hc4000:

SEE ALSO - The Sanyo calibration thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1331277)

OK, my final report for now is that I VERY VERY slightly prefer the Mits overall for its TV and Sports capabilities, but not by much. Some would definitely prefer the Sanyo z4000 over the Mits, given that the Sanyo has several advantages for movie watching, while the Mits main advantage is TV content and poorer sources.

The Mitsubishi hc4000 has a tiny bit of a smoother look to it and a bit more consistent processing for poorer sources. The Sanyo comes very close and most people couldn't even tell the difference in POP between the two on most scenes, other than the overall difference in look between DLP and LCD.

It took me a lot of calibration work (20 hours or so) to get more lumens out of the Sanyo in a decent Living mode.
If anyone needs help calibrating a HIGHER lumen mode out of the Sanyo, I can give them some tips for sure.

If you are not comfortable calibrating a projector, or think you will be frustrated in trying to do so, please stick with the Mits hc4000, as it is a much better NEWBIE projector because of it's more accurate OTB settings.

Sanyo's Advantages

Sanyo easily wins for DARKER BLACKS
There is overall a significant advantage to the Sanyo's black levels. Although, depending on your setup and screen size and gain, the best calibrated "CONTRASTY MODE" of the Sanyo doesn't have as dark blacks as the lesser contrasty Sanyo modes (I know this sounds backwards), but this is partly because of the Dynamic compression of whites that the Sanyo's IRIS causes. The Sanyo has a good IRIS, but I am inclined to turn it off sometimes as it can reudce LUMENS too much, and this is already a projector that you don't want to reduce lumens on. However, keep in mind the Sanyo has more contrast room to acheive a darker black calibration or a separate calibration for SCI FI movies. So when I say the blacks aren't as dark when maximizing contrast, what I really mean is that you need to get RID of the IRIS in most modes as to not lose lumens. It doesn't matter how high the contrast is if you lose too many lumens, in too dark of an image you will clip shadow detail and lose the white-level peaks anyways.

Sanyo EASILY wins on Shadow Detail:
The fact the Sanyo wins on shadow detail is really saying something here. Even when I used blown gamma curves, the Sanyo often beat the Mits at shadow detail (that is unusual for a projector to do). The reason I believe is it something to do with the Sanyo's HIGHER intrascene contrast on mid to low-level lighting than any other LCD projector I have ever seen, and MUCH higher than the Mits on these types of scenes. Quite honestly, nothing can quite touch the Sanyo on scenes that are ALMOST dark like evening type scenes that also have dark black backgrounds next to them (like a person standing in front of a DARK cave in the evening). On most projectors, the walls of the cave would be hard to see, but not on the Sanyo. I think the Sanyo is abnormally strong at shadow detail even for any projector under $3,000.

Sanyo wins SLIGHTLY on COLOR:
Sanyo has a tiny bit more VIVID color, but sometimes over-the-top, but it can be calibrated accurately, but it is difficult.
The reason is likely because of the higher NATIVE contrast of the Sanyo, there seems to be a direct correlation between NATIVE CONTRAST and color vividness. Even though the Sanyo has more VIVID color than the Mits, it has more inconsistent and LESS forgiving skin tones, so it kind of balances out here. Actually I still VERY VERY slightly prefer the Mits color, but it really depends what you are watching. If you are watching movies, the Sanyo usually has the better color, but for SPORTS or TV the color battle goes to the Mits.

Sany wins on Build Quality and Looks:
Very subjective, but considering the Sanyo has a LENS door to protect the LENS, and a nice anti-scratch and anti-fingerprint coating, I have to give the build quality to the Sanyo. The Mits is well built, just not as FANCY and not as practical. This is probably the least reason to buy or not buy a projector. They are both relatively close in physical size, but the Sanyo is a bigger, but not by that much.

Comparing the build to the Epsons, I definitely prefer the Sanyo's build quality over the Epson 8700ub or 8350 by leaps and bounds.
Sanyo has dust removal system, sliding lens door,etc...

Sanyo has easier to use Digital Zoom rescaled mode for 2.35 content on 16:9
If you need a quick solution for watching 2.35 content on a 16:9 screen without the black bars, the Sanyo can digitally Zoom / re-scale the center of the 2.35 picture to make it fill the entire 16:9 screen. It works by cutting off the right and left sides similar to how movies sometimes do it when they are converted to 16:9 from 2.35, but the difference being is the Sanyo is using a scaling algorithm to ZOOM the image digitally, so there is a little loss in resolution to acheive this (although not a huge loss, as the scaler works good). I do like this feature, especially for those of us that have not yet implemented masking yet. This works very well for a 1080p image as the loss in resolution is not very noticeable, a little noticeable with a noisier cable source (more so on 720p), but with a CLEAN 1080 Bluray the ZOOM is almost completely unnoticeable.

The Mits has some options to do this as well, but the only easy one is a stretch option which distorts the picture's by stretching it vertically. The Mits has yet even another option to cut off left and right sides as well, but to use it you'd have to click the remote a bunch of times and move the projector slightly, so it's not practical.

Obvious Advantages of the Sanyo:
Greater Placement Flexibility, Manual Lens Shift, etc...


Sanyo DISADVANTAGES vs. the hc4000

# 1 Disadvantage just has to be calibration difficulty , you have to calibrate the Sanyo a LOT to get more lumens, although I was impressed with the Sanyo's LIVING mode calibration to get those extra lumens, and a Dynamic mode calibration looks fairly good as well. However, some people may not be willing to spend the time I did calibrating it. Plus I have calibrated 10+ different models of projectors, so as a NEWBIE calibrator, you may want to avoid the Sanyo. I can now say that some of my original findings were not valid, I can recommend the Sanyo for users up to 120" HIGH POWER SCREEN, but only IF you are willing to calibrate the heck out of the Sanyo to get more LUMENS.

#2 Disadvantage is BRIGHTNESS
The Sanyo isn't as bright, but as long as you have a GAIN screen of at least 1.5 gain for 110" or less, or 1.8+ for 120" or less, you should be fine and get the FULL usage out of the lamp. Again as long as you are willing to calibrate.

# 3 VERY MINOR Disadvantage is SHARPNESS
Keep in mind sharpness mostly matters for HTPC, the Sanyo is pretty sharp as long as you get one with good convergence which seems to be a higher likelihood of doing so compared to most LCD projectors. I base this on the fact that I carefully looked at the number of convergence issues in the older Sanyo z3000 threads, which is a projector very similar to the z4000. I also had two different Sanyo z4000's and compared their convergence, and overall they were very close, the convergence was even off in relatively the same direction. Next I read every single z4000 and z3000 review online, and for the most part the reviewers themselves reported the Sanyo as being sharper and without a convergence issue (including Cine4home). Another strength that allows the Sanyo to be so sharp is the very well designed glass lens, it has excellent focus uniformity. Suprisingly the focus uniformity on the Sanyo is even better than MOST DLP's I've seen, including better than the Mits hc4000. So how is the Mits still sharper? Well, the Mits still focuses tighter at its most focused point, but the Sanyo gets close overall. The Sanyo is sharper than the Sony vw70 I owned, and quite a bit sharper than EPSON LCD's, but also realize that the Mits hc4000 is one of the sharpest projectors ever made, except for the Benq w6000 and some other more expensive DLP's. DLP's will always be sharper than even usually a $10,000 JVC LCOS projector, so let's keep this disadvantage in perspective. That said, if you are a heavy gamer, then I might suggest sticking with DLP if you are not RBE sensitve, but if you luck-out and get a Sanyo z4000 with above-average convergence, the sharpness difference even for gaming should me miniscule (but it's going to be a luck of the draw in manufacturing variances between different units).

# 4 Very Minor Disadvantage is IMAGE CONSISTENCY over more noisey content
It's not the Sanyo does BAD on inconsistently noisey sources (like a cable signal), it's just that out of the (5) projectors I have tested against the Mits, the Mitsubishi is ABSOLUTELY superb at TV content and not giving you that feeling of noiseyness, as well as the Mits still maintains great sharpness. That said, out of the 5 projectors I have tested, the Sanyo z4000 and Epson 8700ub would be 2nd in processing only to the Mits for cable signals and more noisier content. The difference in noiseyness between these 2 projectors is miniscule and usually invisible unless doing a side-by-side and walking up within 5 feet of the screen (so we're talking some VERY minor differnces here).

# 5 Very Minor Disadvantage
Slightly flatter look of the Sanyo in a few scenes - but definitely not ALL, this goes more to a DLP vs. LCD debate. The Sanyo wins on some scenes, like for dark scenes the Sanyo definitely wins, and given the Sanyo has slightly more VIVID color, so in the end after my calbrations, these TWO projectors are VERY CLOSE IN IMAGE POP. Much closer than I ever thought they would be. The SANYO is VERY DLP-LIKE in some ways in that it can smooth the image and POP and give a very film-like experience, especially for an LCD. The only issue it takes TONS and TONS and TONS of calibration to acheive this and it's still just 1/2 of a notch less than the Mits in POP in things like closeups of faces, for scenery sometimes the Sanyo has more POP because of a higher contrast ratio, but at the same time it looks LESS realistic on scenery too (hard to describe). I can see many people comparing a Sanyo and running away because they didn't spend the 20+ hours to calibrate it. However, I can probably help someone calibrate if needed, just send me a PM or read my z4000 calibration thread, I can save you a lot of trouble that I went through.

I think with a proper calibration, this projector can hold its own vs. the Mits hc4000.
If RBE sensitive or you prefer darker blacks, I would definitely lean towards the Sanyo.

Since I am planning on getting back into casual gaming a little, I am a bit torn between the Mits and Sanyo, because for gaming I really think DLP just has too many advantages. That said, the Sanyo is pretty sharp for HTPC, just a touch less. For an obsessive person like myself, it's hard for me to live with any disadvantage, I admit I am too much of a perfectionist, not always a good thing either.

Hey I agree, none of them are. I'd take the Sanyo over the Epson 8700ub MAYBE if I can get this thing calibrated correctly, how's that?

Going back to an Epson comparison, on anything larger than a 106" HP 2.4 gain screen, the Epson vs. the Sanyo becomes VERY borderline.

The Sanyo has better shadow detail, it looks more dynamic in dark scenes even if it is not AS DARK (heck it's still REAL REAL REAL dark). The black bars are black, even in dynamic overly bright mode.

OK, so is it good for an LCD, yes exceptional.

It's just when your OCD on brightness POP like I am.

The Mits just has slightly superior overall processing on noisier sources when it comes to averaging out all the scenes, but not by much after a proper calibration.

Anyone that is considering an Epson 8350 and doesn't need the brightness should look to this PJ instead, as long as they are very good at calibrating.

This projector needs tons and tons of calibration, even more than my older Sanyo Z5 needed.

Hard for me to say just how good it would be with perfect convergence.

The Benq vs. the Mits is going to be close most likely, 6 of one or half-dozen of another.
I won't be comparing these simply because I don't want a white projector and I already own the hc4000, plus I doubt you'd see much difference, maybe - who knows.

I played around with the Sanyo some more and got a very POPPY image by calibrating and starting from LIVING mode with decent colors, so that is a good indication that if I use the CMS or go into the service menu I can pull off a 400 lumen calibration that is pretty much a NEAR BEST mode in LOW LAMP as long as you are NOT a COLOR PURIST.

Well some good news is that Creative Cinema mode is bright enough as long as you don't mess with the custom gamma settings and alter the gamma curve too much, found out I can get 2.2 gamma anyways without gamma curve adjustments.

Going to test with the Freeman's Swiss Alp's IMAX Bluray, and the Hawaii "An Island Symphony" Bluray I suppose, then a Harry Potter movie for the ridiculous dark scene to bright scene transitions.

Dynamic mode leaves a TINT on some scenes in the lowest and highest IRE scenes, but skin tones aren't affected by the TINT 90% of the time, and the 10% of the time they are, it's so slight it isn't bothersome, but dark backgrounds are affected (which is a tiny bit bothersome sometimes, but only when doing split screen comparisons).

Basically, you either have to push RED, or push GREEN or BLUE, so you can't get a perfectly accurate calibration in Dynamic mode across the ENTIRE range, but you can get the mid-level IRE's accurate.

I compared Harry Potter SPLIT SCREEN to Dynamic Mode of the Sanyo, even though the Mits was more accurate overall to D65, the Sanyo looked slightly better on most skin tones in dynamic mode, but I could see the color tint on really dark scenes mostly. Overall the test favored the Sanyo.

At least in split screen mode with the Sanyo in dynamic mode, I could not see nearly as much DLP POP over the LCD POP that I thought I would.

OK, I can still see a certain smoothness and POP a tiny bit on the DLP over the LCD, hence I can see it a tiny bit on clouds or pure white things, but it's only because the DLP produces a tiny bit smoother of an image (less SDE sheen), but it's not noticeable 95% of the time. Actually in almost all scenes, the Sanyo in dynamic mode beats the hc4000 when doing A/B or split screen comparisons, but it's CLOSE most of the time, except in dark scenes.

In middle to low-level lighting, the Sanyo pretty easily beats the Mits. The Sanyo has more vibrant dark colors in dark scenes, and brighter brights. Darker darks and brighter brights at the same time, so superior intrascene contrast.

It's not bothersome, but a purist might not like dynamic mode, but it passed an hour of skin tone testing, even though it slightly tinted dark scenes (usually only dark backgrounds were tinted). It might be fixable in service mode, but doubt it. Couldn't fix it with the CMS either.

The Sanyo beats the hc4000 contrast-wise 90% of the time when in dynamic mode, and I had the IRIS off. You don't really need the IRIS on for the Sanyo in dynamic mode, maybe if watching SCI FI or something even darker than Harry Potter, but I found manual -40ish better overall.

The intrascene contrast was visibly superior by the NAKED eye on the Sanyo in ALL scenes except ones that were particularly shot poorly, where the Mits's weakness might help it look as good or a tiny bit better cause of the lesser contrast (like on really blown out scenes).

Playing with the Mits's calibration controls for over 20+ minutes did not matter, the Mits cannot obtain the contrast levels of the Sanyo's dynamic mode, and it's VERY visible by the NAKED eye.

I think only on the VERY occassional bright scene did the Mits luck out and maybe have a better contrast range (but not really).
My split screen test was not affecting each other's contrast much, I made sure because I blacked out the PJ's first and compared dual-mode contrast to single-mode.

It's because the MITS is floor-mounted and the Sanyo is ceiling mounted on an HP screen that it's rejecting the light of the 2 in opposite directions. So I'm able to maintain contrast on a live split-screen comparison (I do lose some, but not enough to be visible by the eye).

Everything else on the Sanyo is pretty much perfect (color uniformity across the screen, etc...).
Just would like better convergence.

Yah I'm working on it in a moment.

This Sanyo will only work for people with High Power screens, keep that limitation in mind. I mean without a high power screen, you'd have to be REALLY UNPICKY about color accuracy.

Hold your horses, there are logical reasons for me being undecided.

The Sony vw70 I previously had owned (Sony not SANYO) needed to be given non-standard BLOWN calibrations and non-standard gamma curves due to its issues with BLOCKINESS and PIXELATION and IMAGE NOISE.

The Sony looks more realistic and maybe better contrast even than the Sanyo slightly (but the Sanyo in Dynamic mode is real close to the Sony, and actually beats it given the Sony's blown dark pixelated problem).

I know people want to take shots at my comparisons, but I have valid and logic reasons for doing this.

I am RBE sensitive, this makes keeping the Mits hc4000 VERY hard.
I don't want to spend $3,500+ on a JVC.
I like a sharper more POPPY image than the Epson usually gives, and I don't like the fact that the Epson 8700ub costs almost double what I paid for the Sanyo, which then makes me want to go back and just buy a JVC if going to waste money on the Epson.
I tried the B-STOCK Sony, but it doesn't do it for me with the pixelation issue

So here I am, all logical reasons, and I see nothing wrong with me being at this point.
I can spend another $2K and get a great picture for sure, but who said I have to?

We shall see first, I'm only willing to go the JVC route if I cannot fulfill a decent overall viewing experience at a lower price
(which the Sanyo looks to do for me anyways, given my issues)

I just don't feel like taking a chance on the Infocus sp8602 given that based on what others tell me, I am probably in the category of EXTREMELY RBE sensitive, the sp8602 might help some, but I may still get serious eye fatigue.

So then the next choice was the HD250, and if I'm going to spend that kind of money, I'll just get a JVC RS40 most likely for another $1,000, but then we're up to some pretty high expenditures, and this Sanyo can last me a couple years until some of the newer rounds of projectors come out.

I believe the newer ones will have much improved 3D and probably better QC in the future, so I'll take the cheaper projector for now, and get a more expensive one later. Also the economy is not real great right now, so I need to save money just in case. I have the money to spend, but I'd rather not unless I have to.

I don't doubt that an Epson 8700ub might slightly beat this Sanyo for some that want just darker blacks, but for me I think I'll keep the sharpness balance in place at a lower cost while still being able to clean out dust blobs without having to take the whole projector apart (and saving some serious money in the process).

It takes about 10 hours of viewing with a projector to truely test it, that's why I change my mind. Even Art often goes back and changes his mind, it's not easy if you try to do it without BIAS.

I did see the contrast difference with the Sony, never said I didn't, but at the same time I stress that I could live with the poorer contrast of the Mits if I wasn't RBE sensitive. So now here I am with the Sanyo, a pretty good compromise so far.

Rewrote my entire comparison today, I felt I didn't calibrate the Sanyo enough the first try to acheive better contrast.
Now I have a better comparison.

So I hate to back-track and look like I made such a huge mistake in the original comparison, but if only you guys could see how odd this projector is to calibrate compared to how you calibrate most other projectors.

If you buy the Sanyo and have some gain with your screen and are willing to calibrate it, I do not feel like you lost anything vs. the Mits when it comes to picture quality as long as you are watching a relatively CLEAN source, other than a tiny bit of loss in sharpness vs. the Mits (and depends on how good the convergence of your Sanyo is). Keep in mind you gain black levels and color vividness with the Sanyo (only if you calibrate properly though).

The Sanyo's CMS does work really well, but it is hard to fix any projector with a CMS when the calibration is so far off from the OTB settings. That said, the Sanyo has every option you need to fix the inaccurate colors, but just remember, takes a ton of patience and perserverence.