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Behringer Inuke DSP - Page 2

post #31 of 106
4/26/11 at 7:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bossobass View Post
According to the IPR thread the Peavey higher powered versions have their own HPF built in at 16 Hz.
Bosso
Is it in a chip, or is it a blocking capacitor on the front end that we could tinker with? Either way I'm sure it's another sad case of "didn't see why anyone would want to go that low" and they are just trying to keep DC and in the Pro Audio world, "near DC" out of the amp.
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post #32 of 106
4/26/11 at 7:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bossobass View Post
According to the IPR thread the Peavey higher powered versions have their own HPF built in at 16 Hz.

I've been experimenting with Lab clones that maintain flat response to below 5 Hz and it's my opinion that the Berry will not extend that low, otherwise, it's output and SQ specs will take a serious dump.

The EP amps had a 5 Hz HP, but they were blatant copies of the QSC RMX platform, so the roll off and performance make sense.

There are also a spate of clones already available.

Bosso
So where is the info on these Lab clones you keep talking about?
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post #33 of 106
4/26/11 at 8:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warpdrv View Post
Thats right.....

"These aren't the droids your looking for !!" swoosh wave of the hand
god I forgot how much lucas ruined those films with the new effects.

oh well I am getting the blu's come September.




Also bosso, do you have any more info on your class D switch mode amp?
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post #34 of 106
4/26/11 at 8:18pm
I'd like to know this too...

Quote:
Originally Posted by notnyt View Post
So where is the info on these Lab clones you keep talking about?
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post #35 of 106
4/26/11 at 10:13pm
Newbie Here---
Can someone explain the difference between an EQ, Parametric Equalizer, BFD, and DSP.

I will be using a HTPC -> HK525 receiver->Amp->Speakers and Bass
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post #36 of 106
4/26/11 at 10:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkson View Post
Can someone explain the difference between an EQ, Parametric Equalizer, BFD, and DSP.
Graphic (GEQ) and parametric (PEQ) both allow you to change the frequency response.

A GEQ has lots of little sliders that allow you to cut/boost a specific frequency band, usually by +/- 12dB and up to 31/channel. The EQ channels are set in their Q or bandwidth of frequencies they operate over. they are easy to use, but limited in that if you need an EQ function different to what they offer, you can't get an exact fix.

A PEQ will usually have less channels of EQ, but you can very the centre of the EQ to where you want it , as well as the width so with some skill, you can get the exact result you want, but they are more difficult/involved to use.

Both of these types can be made in the analogue or digital domain, and the newer digital versions mimic the operation of the analogue ones so that the frequency response changes of either type would look identical for identical settings.

A DSP is a digital signal processor, basically a small dedicated computer core specialised to do the number crunching to create filters (and other functions) in the digital domain.

A BFD is a Behringer Feedback Destroyer, which is a DSP box that can be either a PEQ or a GEQ (DSP has that flexibility) and has been used in many HT to equalise subs and other speakers. It's inexpensive and quite powerful.

The INUKE has some EQ as well as crossover functionality, via a DSP core built into it.
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post #37 of 106
4/26/11 at 10:48pm
Thanks for the detailed response.

The next question is--
Should I buy one of these products? I will be using a high quality sound card to do analog to HTPC. I will have a VTF HSU-3 and a THT(still deciding the subfwoofer of choice) and LCRSrSr from Axiom.
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post #38 of 106
4/26/11 at 11:20pm
Hard to say, but I have no experience of it and am unsure what it will do and whether that suits your needs.

For just a poweramp and DSP based EQ for the sub it could be a good option.
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post #39 of 106
5/2/11 at 6:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by A9X-308 View Post

Graphic (GEQ) and parametric (PEQ) both allow you to change the frequency response.

A GEQ has lots of little sliders that allow you to cut/boost a specific frequency band, usually by +/- 12dB and up to 31/channel. The EQ channels are set in their Q or bandwidth of frequencies they operate over. they are easy to use, but limited in that if you need an EQ function different to what they offer, you can't get an exact fix.

A PEQ will usually have less channels of EQ, but you can very the centre of the EQ to where you want it , as well as the width so with some skill, you can get the exact result you want, but they are more difficult/involved to use.

Both of these types can be made in the analogue or digital domain, and the newer digital versions mimic the operation of the analogue ones so that the frequency response changes of either type would look identical for identical settings.

A DSP is a digital signal processor, basically a small dedicated computer core specialised to do the number crunching to create filters (and other functions) in the digital domain.

A BFD is a Behringer Feedback Destroyer, which is a DSP box that can be either a PEQ or a GEQ (DSP has that flexibility) and has been used in many HT to equalise subs and other speakers. It's inexpensive and quite powerful.

The INUKE has some EQ as well as crossover functionality, via a DSP core built into it.


Thanks
What I'd like to know is-
IF I am using an HTPC and a good sound card with good software/drivers, do I need a DSP/BFD/EQ? You said that there are EQs in the digital domain. Why get a BFD then?
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post #40 of 106
5/2/11 at 6:34pm
Running EQ, and particularly XO on a PC is significantly less reliable and user friendly than using outboard boxes like Behringer/miniDSP etc. Been there done that For a dedicated HTPC it might be less of an issue than with a general use PC.
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post #41 of 106
5/4/11 at 2:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by findbuddha View Post

Running EQ, and particularly XO on a PC is significantly less reliable and user friendly than using outboard boxes like Behringer/miniDSP etc. Been there done that For a dedicated HTPC it might be less of an issue than with a general use PC.



What was your experience running the EQ(not the crossovers) on an HTPC?
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post #42 of 106
5/4/11 at 5:10am
There's a lot of variables to consider, ie. what soundcard, what software etc.

I don't have a HTPC, just a regular, all-in-one PC that for about a year was used as XO and EQ for my active 3 way system. Now that role is taken by some miniDSPs.

Some issues you may encounter, depending on your hardware and software config:
- inability to route audio from specific programs through your EQ/XO
- needing to reboot PC, as things don't get restored properly on waking from sleep sometimes
- clicks and pops trying to get low enough latency
- full volume pops reaching drivers due to
---- software crash
---- devices switched on/off in wrong order


If you tell me a bit more about your plans I can offer some specific advice as to what might work best
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post #43 of 106
5/4/11 at 6:37am
I have 5 speakers(axiom), and 4 subwoofer drivers in 2 sealed boxes. I will have 1 HK 525. The HK 525 has a crossover at 80 to the subs, but no HDMI. I will have a nice sound card Either the Lynx 2b or the Xonar Delux HDAV. I haven't decided yet (any tips?). Plan is analog out to the HK 525 to drive the rears and center, and Analog out to the mains and subs.

Right now I am leaning towards 2 PPSL subs with custom 18" drivers.

I will have high powered amps.

The setup is for Home Theater in a 15x17 room. I will only be watching movies(downloaded) and music. I won't have netflix.


What should I get to EQ out the bass? I'm expecting to have lots of bass in my room, flat response down LOW is what I want
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post #44 of 106
5/4/11 at 3:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkson View Post

What should I get to EQ out the bass? I'm expecting to have lots of bass in my room, flat response down LOW is what I want

For just the bass I would suggest the balanced/rca 2x4 miniDSP as they can be used under 20Hz (eg highpass or EQ). It depends on what amps you have for the subs and normally pro style amps use balanced.
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post #45 of 106
5/5/11 at 12:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkson View Post

I have 5 speakers(axiom), and 4 subwoofer drivers in 2 sealed boxes. I will have 1 HK 525. The HK 525 has a crossover at 80 to the subs, but no HDMI. I will have a nice sound card Either the Lynx 2b or the Xonar Delux HDAV. I haven't decided yet (any tips?). Plan is analog out to the HK 525 to drive the rears and center, and Analog out to the mains and subs.

Right now I am leaning towards 2 PPSL subs with custom 18" drivers.

I will have high powered amps.

The setup is for Home Theater in a 15x17 room. I will only be watching movies(downloaded) and music. I won't have netflix.


What should I get to EQ out the bass? I'm expecting to have lots of bass in my room, flat response down LOW is what I want

I take it you are using external amps for mains and subs, but still want the HK525 as volume control?

It seems the HK525 has a 6 channel direct input mode, where the input is passed direct to the volume control without going through an AD conversion - this is good as it won't reduce the benefit of the Lynx's good converters. The HK525 also has pre-amp outputs so you should be able to use your external amps, but you'll need to check that it does pass through to these outputs in 6 channel direct mode, and that the voltage is high enough to drive your sub amps.

The Lynx2B has a loopback feature (http://www.lynxstudio.com/lstreamloopback.html), so you should have no trouble sending your 6 channels of audio to a software VST host for processing. I'd recommend Reaper, though some use Plogue Bidule or Console.

For EQ and bass management I'd recommend Fabfilter Pro-Q (it's a VST plugin), can go down to 10hz. It's pretty expensive though, and there may be cheaper EQ's with similar features - I haven't looked.






I'd still suggest it's not worth it. Here's another plan:
-get Xonar HDAV card you listed
-use 6 channel DVD input on HK525 - it can do bass management/XO
-use whatever EQ facility is in your software
-purchase miniDSP 8x8 when it's released
-put miniDSP in between Xonar and HK
-put HK back in 6 channel DIRECT input mode
-use miniDSP for all EQ/bass management/XO
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post #46 of 106
7/16/11 at 8:49pm
Here is an interesting little note about the new Behringer INuke 3000. No not the 6000 model, but --- if the 3000 is producing these numbers and the 6000 is reputed to just be two 3000 units in one box (no bridge capability)...it does get interesting...
http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/NU3000DSP.aspx

From a Danish review translated by google -
"...gives 4 ohms 5625 watts peak (yes - I have calculated and measured correctly) - which is 2809 watts RMS 4 ohms."
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f15/be...ifiers-788601/
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post #47 of 106
8/12/11 at 9:18pm
did you guys play with the inuke software yet? I don't see how you can enable a low cut filter below 20hz? You can download the software and play with it - without owning the amp.

http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/NU6000DSP.aspx

click download remote editor software on the right side of the page under the picture.
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post #48 of 106
8/12/11 at 9:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

did you guys play with the inuke software yet? I don't see how you can enable a low cut filter below 20hz?

It probably can't, just like the DCX. Remember Behringer's target market for this is live sound where under 40Hz is rare so there would be no need for it.

There are some workarounds for the DCX to accomplish lower HPFs. Dig around and see if the explanations on how to do those will help.
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post #49 of 106
8/15/11 at 10:18pm
Anyone know whether the coming soon Behringer iNuke can be bridged in 8 ohm?
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post #50 of 106
8/15/11 at 10:23pm
"Anyone know whether the coming soon Behringer iNuke can be bridged in 8 ohm?"

yes. you can always bridge into an impedance that is HIGHER than what the amp is rated for.

if the amp is rated for bridged into 4 ohm and you want to put a 2 ohm load => NO GOOD.

if the amp is rated for bridged into 4 ohm and you want to put a 8 ohm load => NO PROBLEM.

sometimes bridging provides litte benefit over running off a single channel, so while possible, it is not recommended.
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post #51 of 106
9/3/11 at 7:08pm
according to Behringer, it said NU3000DSP capable to deliver 3000 watts in 4 ohm bridged, so how much higher the output would be if it's ruuning at 8 ohm in bridged mode?

btw, is it available in 240V version?
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post #52 of 106
9/3/11 at 8:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by WereWolf84
according to Behringer, it said NU3000DSP capable to deliver 3000 watts in 4 ohm bridged, so how much higher the output would be if it's ruuning at 8 ohm in bridged mode?

btw, is it available in 240V version?
Probably 1500W @ 8ohm bridge. And yes, it comes in 240v version for Europe. There is already a review from a Germany Magazine. Link is in Behringer Website, but its in German.
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post #53 of 106
9/4/11 at 3:41am
Its a shame the 6000 version can't be run in 2 ohms stereo because that would on paper have alot more power than a single EP4000. They are only £300 here in the UK and would make that a complete bargain. It doesn't look like it can be bridged either as it only quotes stereo ratings. Unless anyone else knows different.
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post #54 of 106
9/4/11 at 4:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by WereWolf84 View Post

according to Behringer, it said NU3000DSP capable to deliver 3000 watts in 4 ohm bridged, so how much higher the output would be if it's ruuning at 8 ohm in bridged mode?

btw, is it available in 240V version?

You mean less, about half 1760 watts according to what Behringer did publish so far, 880 watts per side 4 ohms = 8 ohms bridged.
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post #55 of 106
9/4/11 at 4:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by gperkins1973 View Post

Its a shame the 6000 version can't be run in 2 ohms stereo because that would on paper have alot more power than a single EP4000. They are only £300 here in the UK and would make that a complete bargain. It doesn't look like it can be bridged either as it only quotes stereo ratings. Unless anyone else knows different.

Pretty simple, the 6k is made of 2X Inuke3000 module already bridged and running an amp to it's minimum impedance is never a good idea unless you have a real amplifier that can handle it, in pro world 2 ohms is for emergency to finish a show, if you end up running @ 2 ohms when setting you rig you need more amplifiers.
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post #56 of 106
9/4/11 at 10:48am
The EP4000 runs 2 ohms stereo fine and at reference watching films even in my low tune. Music it struggles a bit but that is only low frequency stuff. I wonder how the 3000 model will run 2 ohms stereo in comparison.
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post #57 of 106
9/30/11 at 12:35pm
Anybody grab one of these yet? Any reports on noise floor for full-range duty?
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post #58 of 106
9/30/11 at 1:12pm
I have the Inuke 3000 DSP. I wanted the 6000 model but is not release yet. I have only one sub; but I tried Stereo Mode and Bridge Mode; and to my understanding in Stereo Mode with just one sub its loud in a 2500 cubic feet. So having another sub will fit perfectly. In my case I bought a Samson S-Convert because performace was pretty low; but with the Samson is great!...

My drivers are 4 ohm; so I can imagine that 2ohm driver will perform lot better. I tried bridge mode and I notice an output increase; I can't say that "doubled the output"; but I'm pretty sure that in Stereo/Dual Mode with 2 subs will outperforms one sub in bridge mode.

I still have to learn more because I dont know how to EQ the sub using the DSP Function. I would like to have a punchy, mid bass slam than a very deep sub. So far my DIY sub sounds deep; but not punchy. I would like to know if I can try to do some EQ Curve to get more mid-slam bass but I have not idea how to do it. I can imagine by increasing dbs within the 200hz-400hz will do the trick but I think to make that sucesfull I need a driver that reach such frequency; and my driver freq is from 19hz-100hz; so not sure if this can be possible or not with my driver. I am considering getting a Dayton MK-III in which the freq ranges from 18hz-500hz.

Any help will be apprectiated!..

PS: About fan? Yes; is bit noisy; not sure if more noisy that EP4000; someone mentioned that EP4000 is a little bit noisier than Inuke 3000. But you are able to hear only at normal levels (reference?). When hearing music or seeing a movie you will never notice.
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post #59 of 106
9/30/11 at 1:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by javygonx View Post

I have the Inuke 3000 DSP. I wanted the 6000 model but is not release yet. I have only one sub; but I tried Stereo Mode and Bridge Mode; and to my understanding in Stereo Mode with just one sub its loud in a 2500 cubic feet. So having another sub will fit perfectly. In my case I bought a Samson S-Convert because performace was pretty low; but with the Samson is great!...

My drivers are 4 ohm; so I can imagine that 2ohm driver will perform lot better. I tried bridge mode and I notice an output increase; I can't say that "doubled the output"; but I'm pretty sure that in Stereo/Dual Mode with 2 subs will outperforms one sub in bridge mode.

I still have to learn more because I dont know how to EQ the sub using the DSP Function. I would like to have a punchy, mid bass slam than a very deep sub. So far my DIY sub sounds deep; but not punchy. I would like to know if I can try to do some EQ Curve to get more mid-slam bass but I have not idea how to do it. I can imagine by increasing dbs within the 200hz-400hz will do the trick but I think to make that sucesfull I need a driver that reach such frequency; and my driver freq is from 19hz-100hz; so not sure if this can be possible or not with my driver. I am considering getting a Dayton MK-III in which the freq ranges from 18hz-500hz.

Any help will be apprectiated!..

PS: About fan? Yes; is bit noisy; not sure if more noisy that EP4000; someone mentioned that EP4000 is a little bit noisier than Inuke 3000. But you are able to hear only at normal levels (reference?). When hearing music or seeing a movie you will never notice.


60-120hz is generally considered more midbass. You should bump up the signal about 6dB between 70hz to 110hz and see how you like it using the built in DSP. Just play with bumping the levels to find the sound you like. It's pretty self explanatory when you get the inuke software hooked up to your laptop via USB. You definately don't need anything near 500hz to get that midbass slam -- that's way out of true subwoofer territory. Most true subwoofers shouldn't be given signal higher than 120 to 150hz because it hurts their accuracy in the lower hz frequencies. I tend to like a LFE crossover of less than 120hz myself. 80hz is THX specification (meaning signals higher than 80hz are attenuated) 90hz is what Yamaha stated they recommended for their 18" PA subs in the CW218V. I liked 80hz best for my SVS PB 13 ultras. It's really a bit of a subjective preference thing -- just note that the higher you make your LFE "crossover" the less true/accurate your lowest frequencies will sound when multiple frequencies are being reproduced at once.
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post #60 of 106
9/30/11 at 2:35pm
Ok... So; my receiver has both LFE and Crossover Settings. LFE is set to 120Hz, and Crossover is set to 100Hz. I thought midbass range was from 200-400hz; but if it hurst accuracy in the lower hz; then the Dayton MKIII wont help?

My PL200 delievers more punchy bass than DIY. My sub rumbles a lot. Not sure if is ok or not; I put the Hulk Movie; and in the subsonic scene; every time Hulk do a step; the sub rumbles like if HULK JUMPS!... Doesn't make sense; too much rumble for a single step. Not sure if that part of the scene is like that or I have some really problems with my EQ!

It is possible to do a single enclosure with 2 drivers; one sub driver and one mid-bass driver on same enclosure?!

Archaea; are you able to play more with the inuke software? Here is my XO and EQ settings; Maybe are wrong. Check it out to see what can I fix. By the way; you sold the JTR Captivate and got SVS PB Ultra?
LL
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