Official LG XXPZ950 Owners Thread - Page 15

LOL...sorry bout the name!!

Thanks MAURI!

I will save to favs and try all of these! You guys Rock!

I am messing up on these posts because a little tricky to do on my IPAD. Much easier when I use PC. So please excuse if my posts look out of wack. I have to blame my Ipad as well for the predictive text adding the "ice" after Mauri's name. My bad.

Thanks again guys! Awesome forum members for an awesome TV!

On the avforums 50PZ950 review, they checked the THX presets with the meter and Calman software. As you can see, the factory calibration was very good, and on the scores table the PZ950 got:

Colour reproduction out of the box: excellent
Greyscale out of the box: excellent

Here is the review: http://www.avforums.com/reviews/index.php?reviewid=207

No problem derod, "maurice" is the french version of my real name

The facts speak for themselfes:

To praise the contrastlevel of a TV withl a MLL of 0.09 cd/m2 (without tuning) and to not even mention the amount of pwm noise near black sounds not very trustworthy to me.

That was on the flatpanelshd PZ950 review.

PWM noise can be a bit different from sample to sample, as well as the plasma panels and the factory calibration.

Trust me, there is another plasma manufacturer, much more famous than LG, that it is from 3 years now that is selling *crap* (IMO) plasmas with many problems, while some reviewers were only saying "woow.. what a great MLL!", and saw no defects. Every thing was perfect and they give an "highly recommended" award as usual. Ask to the people that, later, have bought those models, if they were so great and perfect (of course you don't need to ask, there are tons of threads all around the world).

But when they got their hands on an LG or Samsung plasma, they were looking at them by using a microscope. And I can show you that, about one model of the LGs plasma I own, there was a reviewer from a famous U.K. web site that failed to check a test - BTB test: FAILED. Of course the final score was lowered because of that. Well, I decided to buy that model in any case because I was really interesting in it, and I have done that test me too at home; result? BTB test PASSED. My post of 2 years ago with the photo of that test is still there, on the main I.T. italian forum, togheter with my explanations. And that U.K. review, of course, is also still there.

Not all good is good, and not all evil is evil. But I prefer to stop here this "rant", and I hope you will do the same

I'm not an LG fanboy, just to be clear. In fact, the only LG stuff I own are their plasma (I would never buy, for example, an LG BD player). I try to spend my money in the best way, that's all. But during these days it takes a lot of time to discover what is the less evil (hardware), and people should know and learn a lot of things... too many.

Thanks Mauri, that pretty much sums it up. I get tired of people who don't even own a product making blanket statements about the performance of an entire brand based on some personal bias. You're right that I found a lot of people on other forums with problems on other brands far worse than MLL not measuring up to some lab techs standards.

Sorry to hurt your feelings, but in fact each of the three big plasma makers have their own type of driving their panels and so you can indeed make a statement about a brand's plasma-televisions, even when you owned only two different models.

LG has problems near black (R, G, B-particles clearly seperated, Noisepatterns not very fine, IREs up to 5% are not reaching the paneledges), Samsung too (same R, G, B-problem though finer 1x1 pixels tall) and Panasonic handles the noisepatterns near black the best of all three.

Simple facts, get over it.

Turrican, damn it , while at the moment I don't know if what you said is true, but assuming it is, you should know that IRE values under 20 and above 80 on the graphs, and expecially under 10 and above 90 IRE, when speaking about display calibration (professional), usually are not taken in consideration, because of the limits of most of the meters used to get the display calibrated! And most of the contents do not even have them at all. So, what are we speaking about? We're just wasting time. Please be serious.

Now why should my feelings be hurt again? You haven't said anything substantial to do so. I've logged over 1000 hrs on my PZ950 and you have how many hours on yours? You're all giddy like a schoolgirl cause avforums mentioned the PWM noise you're hung up on but they also stated it was only noticeable when you were TOO CLOSE to the screen but was not an issue at NORMAL viewing distances (we've been over this--sigh). They also stated the PZ handled fast motion much better than the Panasonic (fact). Like Mauri said, there's faults with all brands.
The REAL simple facts are that you DO NOT OWN a PZ950 and your opinions posted on an OWNERS forum mean little to nothing.
I'll take the incredible color reproduction, fast action performance and very smooth, stable black levels (even if they aren't the lowest measured!) of the PZ over any other set currently out there.

+1

Like I mentioned earlier, I returned my Panasonic VT30 and got LG PZ950 and I'm very happy now. This LG PWM noise isn't visible from >6ft, while Panasonic had green dots in a dark areas which were visible from >8ft! (Now users report red or pink dots on white areas of picture on Panasonic's plasmas).
It depends on users needs, which issues are more distructive... (There is no ideal TV set out there).
We can choose LG, Samsung or Panasonic and decide to stay with it or exchange it.

You're both right, Panasonic does have better isolation between the cells, therefore less bleeding and obvious noise near black therefore deeper blacks, but other numerous reported problems. LG has better consistent color and a pleasing picture, (excluding some reported and shown DSE which is an assembly quality control problem and not the full production). Samsung's finer pixels IMO make the image look more like an LCD panel and not what I expect from plasma. With LG and Samsung do not sit so close or you will see dithering, the Panasonics will look grainy, your choice.

I have a quick question for other owners. I have a PZ750 but since there is little to no posts in that thread I thought I would throw it out over here. I can get 5.1 DD or DTS out of the optical output if it is directly from the TV (i.e. cable programming directly from the antenna or from VUDU etc). Anything from an HDMI and the optical output goes to 2.0 channels. Any idea why this is? FWIW, I am using the optical output to feed a set of DD/DTS enabled headphones.

CNET US Review just released...

Reviewed by:
David Katzmaier
Reviewed on: 08/25/2011

http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-t...-34468440.html

He wasn't feeling too much love for set like most of us here are. I think there is way too much overemphasis on blacks and that alone is killing this awesome tv from getting the praise it much deserves.

I will say it again and again, u can have those inky blacks, give me true to life color and uniformity along with great 3D. Consumer Reports gave this set a much more accurate review IMO.

Peace

Reminds me years ago for the race for speakers for deeper bass, everything was focused on the bass, listen to the bass, listen to that bass until all you heard was bass.
But everyone recognizes and appreciates LG's accurate grey scale and IMO the blacks are just fine.

So yes, looks again like another mixed review.

Finally we wish the two THX modes (Day and Night) allowed some adjustment like they do on Panasonic's plasmas.

Hello code 8741 gets you into the THX settings and you can adjust away.

Black level: The LG plasma showed the worst (lightest) shade of black among the TVs in our lineup aside from the PX950, which measured and appeared identical in terms of black level. We noticed the LGs' more washed-out black most in areas like letterbox bars and dark scenes

The letterbox bars on my PX950 are non visible and definitely not washed out. What's interesting is that yes in some films dark scenes are lighter while most films with dark scenes the black levels remain, the PZ950 should be the same. At least he bracketed (lighter) after worst.

Shadow detail was very good on the PZ950, with no loss of detail near black--something that can't be said of the D7000 or LW5600--as well as no excessive lightening, as we saw near black on the VT30.

Color accuracy: Despite some flaws in the Geek Box the PZ950 performed very well in this category, outdoing both Panasonics

Near-black measured better on the PZ950 compared to the bluish tinge of the LEDs, although the LG plasmas' lighter black levels made discolorations in shadows and deeper black areas a bit more obvious than the other plasmas. That said, the PZ950 still had one of the most neutral grayscales at low light levels our lineup.


So people keep harping on the black levels, LG may be lighter in some dark scenes than the competition, but the LGs have a lot going for them, and considering the amount of problems listed on these forums and others with the competition, achieving those levels comes at a cost to the overall enjoyment and picture quality.

The lighter blacks absolutely do matter, as it affects overall picture quality quite considerably.

However, if you do the technique that Turrican provided to adjust Set_Up - Set_Dn waveforms inside the tv, you can get black levels quite a bit darker, making this tv the overall best performer and value in my eyes.

I almost exchanged the tv for the D7000 until I tried this. I wouldn't recommend doing it unless you want to spend a long time opening the tv, tweaking, and possibly ruining you tv though.. not to mention voiding your warranty.

And just to quote David from the PX950 review http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-t...=mncolBtm;rnav the TV does have relatively deep black levels and the PZ950 is on par. I must stress again that the lower black is only evident when viewing some black scenes where the shadow image may get a bit grey but not all dark scenes suffer from this, for the majority of movie viewing as I constantly state, black comes across as black, never grey with excellent shadow detail.
There have been a few who were unhappy with their LGs, par for the course, but those who dismiss the top LGs as a possible choice because of reading about the lower blacks "in dark scenes" are missing the whole picture.

Have to agree with you on that one and I've watched one or 2 films where I thought the black in shadow areas might be blacker, but the matter is, is that not all films exhibit these lighter blacks which may distract from you from totally enjoying the film. People who have not seen the LGs may get the wrong impression and then quote the reviews, that their black is grey without ever having seen an LG, which is definitely not the case. They are just not as black as some of the more expensive sets out there but overall black is black. and to quote David again, “the TV does have relatively deep black levels”

Hi bhazard,

Just curious if there was a reduction of shadow detail or the crushing of black scenes.
Which brings me to another query, is that some sets may have been adjusted lighter or darker during testing and assembly which would account for the different opinions.

You can bet your 2 cents on that thing

No reduction to shadow detail or black crushing. The slightest micro turn of the pots can cause the picture to go from dark to very white and washed out depending on how much they've been turned from their original starting point. Turn too much, and you will also cause picture distortion. I made marks on the pots in marker to know where to return the pot to the original positions.

I'm actually going to try again opening the tv a few days after the hurricane and add Vy to the tweaking to see if I can get to Kuro level blacks. Even at just a little bit darker where I'm at now, it makes a big difference and is very noticeable compared to stock.

Be careful back there though with the live voltage. My hand slipped one time and the tv gave me a nasty little shock.

Not too sure that's possible without adverse effects, Pioneer patented their plasma cell design, which produced deeper blacks and was expensive to produce. Panasonic, Samsung and LG are all low end to medium consumer electronics and manufactured to a price point, so even though one may be able to lower the perceived black level the actual plasma screens cannot technically match the overall picture quality regardless of how much tweaking we do, all the current sets although fairly good are still a compromise.
Having said that, I believe IMO the overall color fidelity on most plasma sets has improved over the Kuros, and now offer more satisfactory viewing options under different lighting conditions and a viable option outside a dedicated home theater, and not to forget pricing has dramatically reduced in the last few years. Sad to say but even though the battle to produce better blacks and picture is prominent for most dedicated movie viewers, manufacturers will most likely put their energies and money into usability and apps to wow the general public with more bells and whistles.

Bhazard...You think you could YouTube it incase some of us bold enough to wanna try? Not me--too chicken but might change mind down the road.

David Katzmaier failed to calibrate the VT30 correctly. He tried and when he didn't got it, he just went to the THX mode.

This is one reason, why his achieved gamma is so ridiculous low.

So his comments on color and shadow detail on VT30 is to take with a grain of salt.

On the other hand, hed didn't get gamma on the PZ950 to a reference level, which should be possible. Yes, the 20point isf is very very bitchy on LG plasmas and a busy reviewer probably can't spend that much time on one set, that an owner or a professional calibrator would spend, but neartheless, it could be achieved.

Same goes for grayscaleperformance at IRE5.

I posted (copy/pasted) CNET's Calibration settings below for quick access if anyone wants to take a gander...
............................................................ .................>>>>>>>

LG 50PZ950 picture setting
by katzmaier - 8/25/11 10:03 AM
Review:
http://reviews.cnet.com/tvs/lg-50pz9...-34468439.html

Related products:
LG 60PZ950

Calibration report using these settings:
http://scr.bi/o51XwF

Below you'll find the settings we found best for viewing the LG 50PZ950 in a dim room via the HDMI input at 1080p/24 resolution. Your settings may vary depending on source, room conditions, and personal preference. Check out the Picture settings and calibration FAQ for more information.
http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-9996461-1.html

Picture menu:
Aspect ratio: Just Scan
Energy Saving: Off
Picture Mode: Expert [1 or 2]
Contrast: 80
Brightness: 55
H Sharpness: 50
V Sharpness: 50
Color: 50
Tint: 0

--Expert control menu
Dynamic contrast: Off
Noise reduction: Off
Super Resolution: Off
Gamma: Medium
Black level: Low
Film Mode: On
Color Gamut: Standard
Edge Enhancer: Off
xvYCC: Auto [grayed out]
Expert Pattern: Off [grayed out]
Color Filter: Off

Color Temperature: Warm

Method: [set both, see below]
Pattern: Outer

-- Method: 2-points
Red Contrast: -8
Green Contrast: 0
Blue Contrast: -24
Red Brightness: -34
Green Brightness: 26
Blue Brightness: 0

-- Method: 10 point IRE
Luminance: [130 @ 100, otherwise grayed out]
IRE: [Red, Green, Blue respectively for each IRE point]
100 [4, 2, -25]
95 [-4, -4, -22]
90 [-6, -6, -16]
85 [0, 0, 0]
80 [6, 8, 7]
75 [3, 3, 2]
70 [1, 4, 1]
65 [-2, -1, -4]
60 [-15, -11, 0]
55 [6, 7, 12]
50 [19, 17, 17]
45 [10, 3, -3]
40 [3, 4, -1]
35 [6, 1, 6]
30 [2, -3, -2]
25 [-2, -2, -2]
20 [-4, -7, -4]
15 [-2, -4, -3]
10 [-3, -5, -3]
5 [-2, -3, -4]

Color management system
Red Color: -8
Red Tint: -10
Green Color: 2
Green Tint: 0
Blue Color: -12
Blue Tint: 0
Yellow Color: 8
Yellow Tint: 7
Cyan Color: 0
Cyan Tint: -3
Magenta Color: 6
Magenta Tint: 3

Note: This post was edited by its original author added link to calibration results on 08/25/2011 at 10:10 AM PT

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Hmmm, I would have chosen "High" for gamma.

First time poster, but here goes...

We finally made the move to HDTV from a 32 inch panasonic CRT. Looked at Pannys, Samsungs, Sharps, and LGs at the local Brandsmart USA. Eventually settled with plasma (biggest concern - screen reflections) and the 60PZ950 (priced hundreds below amazon for what its worth, even considering sales tax). We've had it for a week now, in a fairly bright daytime family room.

First impressions:

• 60 inches looks larger at home than at the store when it was surrounded by 65 inch plus screens.
• HD programming is fantastic.
• Haven't had to change video presets for a good picture.
• 3D was not a selling point, but was pleasantly surprised with HBO 3D on demand (Megamind).
• Reflections are noticeable, but not too distracting unless you focus on them.
• Nighttime low light blu ray movies - AMAZING!

Really, I am no videophile, but I can see no problems with blackness, 1080p smoothness, or all the other issues bandied about by the calibrated meter police and professional reviewers However, we are enjoying our first flatscreen HDTV!

I hope I did not break any rules

Hi kfrehafer,

I also bought my 60pz950 at Brandsmart about a little over a month ago at a ridiculously low price with 3D bluray and 2 glasses included [southflorida but just moved to Tampa area and don't have brandsmarts here ]

I think many owners on this forum, and others, share your exact feelings, aside from what the reviewers think, except Consumer Reports which really gives it the credit it deserves.

iPhones could have flash, but apple feels could compromise the product in some way-hope decent analogy...lol. Like Rob80b said a few posts back, deeper blacks like the other brands have, probably could not produce some of the other excellent pic qualities this set has, like the color, uniformity, detailed grey areas, and smoothness all around, that those other guys may lack. ( I also like the BASS comparison he made as well )) Besides, someone here also stated that they are weak, only when compared to the other guys, that is not to say they are necessarily bad.

I too am no videophile to any stretch but am extremely happy with tv. As u could probably tell.

Nice to see another another happy PZ owner that can appreciate what an awesome investment they have in their crib!!

Mine is still in storage until I find work and a new place. I had worked for a cable company which moved the office I worked out of to PA and wasn't relocating my family there. Currently in moms house and missing my PZ!!!!!!

Does anybody game? My xbox tag is PSLfury. Mic is in storage too! LOL. I mostly play Black Ops TDM, GROUND WAR AND HEADQUARTERS.

Curious to know how lag is on set since didn't get to play on set.


Peace

This year, on the main AV italian forum, the LG plasma 2011 threads are really sleeping. People are just enjoying them. Owners of the samsung plasma (D6900 & D8000) are also very happy. I can't say the same thing about the panasonic threads: a lot of problems with panels, expecially on the expensive VT30 models. The manufacturer and the service centers know them, but they say always "it is normal".

If the luminosity of the whole grey scale has been properly calibrated medium gamma should be spot on, a big stumbling block when trying to get neutral grey for each step is that, if the top has been calibrated too dark or the bottom half of the grey scale too light the gamma then needs to be shifted which then introduces other problems with colour saturation, crushed blacks or grey blacks And of course things get really messy if the luminosity varies along the whole grey scale causing strange colour aberrations when least expected, green shadows, red highlights etc.
When I tried a few posted calibrations on my PX950 one required the gamma set high while another at low and the grey scale was never quite right, so far I’ve found the THX preset with a medium gamma and bit of tweaking the best compromise barring a full calibration, but that's on "my" PX950.

For those who are curious; if you haven’t done so already get a calibration disc, DVD or blu-ray, (a computer or laptop will not do unless you can bypass its’ internal video card) then get into the expert mode (8741) and play around with the 20 or 2 point IRE settings while having a greyscale displayed to see how the adjustment affect the colour shift and luminance of each segment. The colour and tint settings under Colour management are more global, but these can never be adjusted properly without the grey scale being exact or as close to neutral as possible. And of course you’ll have to adjust the brightness and contrast again and then more tweaking as every parameter affects the other.
Again using the analogy to audio, brightness being volume, contrast to a tone control and the 20 point IRE to a 20 pot graphic equalizer but with separate frequency adjustments for each tone.

After you’ve really messed things up you can always hit reset and start again.
If you do get the hang of it (calibrating) do not get too hung up on the details as the controls are never quite linear and do not always work the way they should, so an absolute perfect calibration is almost impossible on consumer sets.