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Pentagon-Shaped Theater Build (Very strange room design...)

post #1 of 108
Thread Starter 

END RESULT:

 

 

Equipment:

- The projector is a Panasonic PT-AE8000U and mounted with a black Peerless PRGUNV Precision Gear Universal Projector Mount
- Screen is a 2.35 Seymour Center Stage AT 115"W x 48.9"H
- Speakers are Klipsch Reference series (4x RB-51s for front left/right and back left/right, 1x RC-52 II Center channel, 2x RS-42II Surrounds, etc.) for 7.1 surround sound. I forget the exact model of the Klipsch sub I bought, I'll try and find it.
- Middle Atlantic Slim 5 Series 37U 19"x20" rack
- Harmon Kardon AVR 2700 surround processor
- Oppo BDP-103 Blu Ray Player
- Buttkicker BKA 1000-N amplifier along with 4 BK4-4 Buttkicker's in the first row
- Sewell BlastIR SW-29311 Infrared (IR) Remote Control Receiver Kit for extending all the IR remotes into my closet
- Insteon Keypadlinc switch next to the entrance door that controls the step light, accent light behind the AT screen, and dimming of the house lights

- 7 Fusion Lagoon theater chairs

 

PLAN:

After two years of thinking about converting my oddly-shaped, 2nd-story room into a theater, it's finally in the working stages. Work started in December of 2013.

 

 

 

 

PREVIOUS BACK STORY:

So I've finally decided it is time to make a home theater. Awesome.

Now, the room I want to use is upstairs and it's a very strange room. My house is very, very contemporary. It was a custom build by the previous owner, so only 1 room in the entire 3.240 square foot house is square. Anyway, I have included a picture below of the layout. Here are a few additional details before my random questions:

-The ceiling height is 9 foot.
-All five of the walls are insulated.
-Currently none of the walls are drywalled, only the ceiling.
-HVAC is already run to the room with an intake vent next to the door in the ceiling and two vents in the ceilings on the side.
- Electrical outlets are already installed around the room
- The room sits over a dining room.




As you can see from the picture, its a very strange room to be using for a home theater (I think). Here are my questions:

1) Do you think this room will work? Or is it too small (distance wise from the screen to the back)?

2) Would it be OK to have the rear left speaker on the slanted wall? This seems odd to me. Probably have 5.1 sound.

3) I'd probably like to have two rows of chairs. The back row (closest to the window) would have two recliners (similar to Berkline 13175 Tangiers) hopefully on a riser. The front row would be three more of the same recliners. I think I can get them to fit. Thoughts?

4) Tray ceiling? I love the look of tray ceilings, especially with the stars in the middle. Would you only tray the rectangular part of the room where the seats and screen would be, or the whole thing? Or is it a bad idea altogether for this room?

5) Sound proofing. It's just me and my other half, we have no kids and don't plan on any. Will it be a bad idea if I just put up normal drywall and don't double layer, green glue, etc.? I guess I don't see sound as that big of a problem. Two of the walls are on the exterior and they have brick on the other side of the plywood (brick exterior house).

6) Would you have a false wall at the front and put the speakers behind the screen (I think it's an AT screen that is see-through?). I like idea of having all the front speakers hidden.

Also, here are a few other pictures of the room taken with my iPhone. Sorry for all the junk in it. You will also notice there is a small service door to a water heater. That's not a big deal if I remove it since it can be accessed from the other side of the house too. There might be room to pop in a recessed rack here though.







Thanks for all your help !


Edited by jrs2806 - 3/7/14 at 12:38pm
post #2 of 108
Here is a first pass at how I would build the room. I would build an acoustically transparent screen wall hiding all the front speakers. Angle it, not quite correct in the quick sketch but you get the idea.

post #3 of 108
Just a couple of ideas...Looks like Big has a similar layout to my second one, going on a angle like his will probably give you more room and better acoustics.


Simple


probably better



My drawings are't to scale, just guessed using paint...lol.
LL
LL
post #4 of 108
I like Big's design but I would throw the equipment into the adjoining attic space that is not used.
post #5 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by adammb View Post
i like big's design but i would throw the equipment into the adjoining attic space that is not used.
+1
post #6 of 108
I agree with move equipment to different room. I also like bigs suggestion with angled keeps the chairs from being right up next to the wall.

oh and run lots of BIG conduit EVERYWHERE!!!!
post #7 of 108
Sorry can't post the pic so it's imbedded from work.

How big would the room be if you squared it off and put the equipment in the area behind the seats?
LL
post #8 of 108
I cleaned up the angles a bit. Maybe close off the windows with at least curtains at the angle shown.



post #9 of 108
Thread Starter 
Pretty impressive how fast all of you replied!

I think Big has the right idea. I didn't think of doing it like that, but it makes perfect sense. Anyone have any good reading on figuring out how close is too close to the screen? I guess I'll have to figure out the perfect screen size and place out the chairs. Does anyone know of a good clearance between the front and back row so that you can walk around people as they are reclined? I'm about to go upstairs and try to measure all this out so I can get new dimensions if I do Big's layout.
post #10 of 108
A lot of what your asking is going to be preference. I have a 12' wide screen and the front row is closer than most on here would say to go but myself and all that have sat there love it. It's between 9-10 feet away. I have about 2.5 feet distance between my rows and my rear recline. Hope this helps
post #11 of 108
I would consider using Big's idea (his second drawling) but i would look into maybe putting the AV equipment under the screen horozontally instead of trying to add a vertical column somewhere. You may have to build a custom cabinet but i think there is space there that can be used

I think the goal in your situation is keep as much room as possible open... you could crowd a lot of stuff into that room but it will feel cramped and smaller and not as enjoyable to sit in there with friends/family if it's crowded.

I would also consider only using 5.1 traditional sound as i've read that if the speakers are too close then 7.1 is not that great. Although you would be able to look into the 7.1 with the wide left and wide right set up.

that's my 2 cents.

Your room is very do-able even though its very unconventional.
post #12 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrs2806 View Post

Pretty impressive how fast all of you replied!

I think Big has the right idea. I didn't think of doing it like that, but it makes perfect sense. Anyone have any good reading on figuring out how close is too close to the screen? I guess I'll have to figure out the perfect screen size and place out the chairs. Does anyone know of a good clearance between the front and back row so that you can walk around people as they are reclined? I'm about to go upstairs and try to measure all this out so I can get new dimensions if I do Big's layout.


Rule of thumb for screen size, is twice the screen height to the first row of seats....so 96" 16:9 screen is 48" tall, your first row is about 8 feet, generally speaking i think that would be comfortable for most people...but thats just a starting place, from there is all preference. If you can, buy your PJ first and project on a blank wall or a bed sheet till you find something youre comfortable with, and then buy your screen.

As far as recliner clearance, i think most recliners need about 6' from the wall to the end of the chair fully reclined, and then whatever walking room you'd need. I think they make "low clearance" or whatever you'd call it that require less space. The best thing to do would be to pick out some chairs you like and find out how much space you need for sure.
post #13 of 108
Thread Starter 
Alright so I spent some time learning Google SketchUp today and took a bunch of measurements. Before the pics, here are a few things about the images:

- Everything is drawn to scale
- The front and back false walls are lined up so that they would fall right on studs. Not sure if that matters, but it makes sense to me
- Speakers in the picture were just for play. No clue if they should actually go there.
- The riser is 10" high at the moment. Depth (front to back) is 79". I guessed at this.
- Currently the distance from the screen to the first row viewer's head is right at 10 feet.
- I opted to use the traditional seats in the back because I think the recliners back there were just too deep and pushed the front row too close to the screen. I haven't picked out the back row seats yet, but I guessed at about 105" for 4 seats. The front recliners were based off of Berkline 13175 Tangiers (4 put together at 120" wide)
- Oh and colors are completely just for play

I'm totally new to all this so any advice would be greatly appreciated



post #14 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrs2806 View Post

The front and back false walls are lined up so that they would fall right on studs. Not sure if that matters, but it makes sense to me

Of course I think the plan looks good. The assumption of lining up the walls to existing studs can be ignored because you can easily insert some blocking between studs to anchor whatever you decide to build. Build whatever gives you the best overall use of the space. You really need to resist the temptation to overbuild the new screen wall. There have been some other threads on this topic but the bottom line IMHO is that a false screen wall is best built with a minimal skeletal frame which holds the screen and surrounding removable fabric panels.

I am a proponent of acoustically transparent screens and I personally have an SMX. You do not see through it but you do hear through it. There is a "sale" thread on them in the screen section of the forum. SeymourAV also has good screens and sells DIY screen fabric.

A major decision for you to make is screen format. 16:9 versus scope.
post #15 of 108
Thread Starter 
Forgot one...

post #16 of 108
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post

Of course I think the plan looks good. The assumption of lining up the walls to existing studs can be ignored because you can easily insert some blocking between studs to anchor whatever you decide to build. Build whatever gives you the best overall use of the space. You really need to resist the temptation to overbuild the new screen wall. There have been some other threads on this topic but the bottom line IMHO is that a false screen wall is best built with a minimal skeletal frame which holds the screen and surrounding removable fabric panels.

I am a proponent of acoustically transparent screens and I personally have an SMX. You do not see through it but you do hear through it. There is a "sale" thread on them in the screen section of the forum. SeymourAV also has good screens and sells DIY screen fabric.

A major decision for you to make is screen format. 16:9 versus scope.


Thanks Big. The construction of this thing is my weakest link. I've never really had any hands on experience building things. I'll end up researching it to death then give it a shot Example pictures will be my friend!

I also had no idea there was something besides 16:9, so I'm about to look that up in a few. Shows you just how clueless I really am with all this stuff :/

Thanks again for all your help. I'd be lost already without it :P
post #17 of 108
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by premiertrussman View Post

Rule of thumb for screen size, is twice the screen height to the first row of seats....so 96" 16:9 screen is 48" tall, your first row is about 8 feet, generally speaking i think that would be comfortable for most people...but thats just a starting place, from there is all preference. If you can, buy your PJ first and project on a blank wall or a bed sheet till you find something youre comfortable with, and then buy your screen.

As far as recliner clearance, i think most recliners need about 6' from the wall to the end of the chair fully reclined, and then whatever walking room you'd need. I think they make "low clearance" or whatever you'd call it that require less space. The best thing to do would be to pick out some chairs you like and find out how much space you need for sure.

Thanks for the advice here. That makes much more sense with figuring out the distance from the screen. I kept reading all different standards but never a good "rule of thumb"!
post #18 of 108
I like your room template. can make a pretty nice room.
where do you plan to put the rack ? down the screen ?
Would you have some room to put it in the "false" wall, but the one behind the seats ?
post #19 of 108
wherever you put the equipment remember all those blinky lights I like not having them in my field of view....... but still maybe visible somewhere to show it off.
post #20 of 108
That plan looks like a winner to me! The guys here are all full of good ideas. Here are a couple links you'll probably want to check out, lots of info if you don't mind reading a little.

RISER HEIGHT CALCULATOR

VIEWING DISTANCE CALCULATOR

ASPECT RATIO EXPLANATION

AT SCREENS
post #21 of 108
I 2nd Big's thought on the decision between 16:9 and 2:35. You can definitely go wider on your false wall, the biggest benefit of using an AT screen.

One thought that I had was projector placement? You may be able to have it fit in the space between the window and false wall, especially if you end up with an offset lens projector. Most popular projector lens' are centered now a days it seems, but there are still a few out there which are offset.

If you really want recliners for that back row you have some pretty good riser depth at 79". Move the front row up 5" and your at 7' which is really ideal. The alternative seats are still a great idea for your room and it affords you an extra seat. So really a win/win situation for you.

BTW, nice job on quickly SketchUp-ing the new design.

Good luck with it.
post #22 of 108
Just a random thought. That rear wall should maybe be a fabric wall with bass traps hidden from view, Planning the acoustical treatment needs of a room this shape is beyond my knowledge other than it would be a good idea to treat the area behind the screen.
post #23 of 108
Interesting project.

Wouldn't the audio performance be better served by having the screen at the narrow end? No idea if the length can work this way or if it'd mean one one row of seating.

The narrow end could have a hinged panel for access to the window area, and also could be a suitable placement for the av rack. A long throw projector might also
work in the back wall, fit into a (hidden) hush box.

One last thought is maybe some consultation dollars spent with Dennis Erskine might be a very wise initial investment in the project?
post #24 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post

You really need to resist the temptation to overbuild the new screen wall. There have been some other threads on this topic but the bottom line IMHO is that a false screen wall is best built with a minimal skeletal frame which holds the screen and surrounding removable fabric panels.

I am a proponent of acoustically transparent screens and I personally have an SMX.

Great advice, easy to overlook. I started with a very complex false wall and ended up with this....very simple, very clean. As you can see, the 2x4's act as a support for the fabric frames but mostly to mount the screen.



The fabric frames are held in place by friction...but do rest against the 2x4's.

post #25 of 108
Just noticed your front speaker layout....

The three front speakers should be aligned in a horizontal plane. If you don't already own the front speakers, skip a center channel speaker and go with three identical speakers behind the AT screen. You will also want those front three speakers to be 6" off the back side of the AT material so they don't timbre shift.
post #26 of 108
jrs,

Your plan for this odd shaped room is shaping up very nice. Don't worry too much about being new to this, as long as you are posting photos you will get lots of advice from this forum. BIG is one of the "grizzled veterans" here and from what I have learned; his advice can be taken to the bank.

MY 2 cents worth (FWIW)
>I have attended a local meet here in Illinois where the entire layout was rotated 45 degrees to the corners of his room, and the result was quite nice.
>Looks to me like your basic layout is pretty much optimized
>Yes; go with the AT screen in a 2:35 format with the speakers behind (I did not and now wish that I had done this).
>Pushing your EQ rack into that adjoining space will be worth the effort, please think about cooling.
>Hopefully others will comment on how best to bass trap this room, I think it has some interesting opportunities (for trapping behind false walls?)

Good Luck!
I am subscribed, for this journey
post #27 of 108
I've suggested it in other threads and intend on doing it with mine, a bar works real well for a back row in a depth challenged room. It takes up less depth and takes care of the height issue making a riser unecessary.
post #28 of 108
Thread Starter 
I'm pretty much shocked by how helpful you guys are. I've never seen a forum community so eager to respond. That's utterly awesome.

I'm still reading through everything about the different screen types. The 2:35 format seems like the right way to go though. Mutheater's screen wall is much simpler than what I was thinking, so that helps a lot. I need to find an article or some pictures on how you make the panels that attach to it though. I guess I'm just a little lost what makes up all the empty black area. Is it a board or is it just fabric stretched? Sounds like a job for the forum search tool

I haven't bought any equipment yet, so no worries about the speakers. Or projector. That's all to be determined.

Bass traps were something I knew nothing about before a few days ago. So I've got some reading to do on that as well.

I think there is enough room to put equipment in the back -- the depth is 32" the way I have it at the moment. Here is where things get strange though.

Home automation is one of my extreme hobbies. I have a wiring closet room that is ventilated upstairs. It's about 30ft away from the start of the room I want to use as a theater. I have a 2 post 19" rack in there already that I use to mount my Nuvo Grand Concerto, Grand Concerto Expander, and Nuvo Dual Satellite Tuner. I would love to use that room since it's already complete and hidden to place everything for the theater room, but I'm not sure if that's too far away. You can view my writeup on my wiring closet here. Try not to laugh too much :P

post #29 of 108
A 30' distance should be fine but factor in that the projector will be further away from the equipment by the room depth and mounting position. Your best bet to future proof is to run a conduit from equipment to the projector and speaker locations(if possible). Check out Monoprice.com as one of the best resources for you wiring needs.

Depending on how big a conduit you run, I would run all existing wiring outside of the conduit, that way if you ever need to run a new wire it will be an open run and less likely to give you trouble. Also test the all of your wires before sealing them up in the wall.

As far as the walls panels for the false wall it is fairly simple. I have a curved wall so I went with the plastic lumber found at HD or Lowes (for a straight wall standard 1 x stock would be fine) and ripped 1x1 pieces out of it which I then used to build frames for the sides and lower portion of my screen wall.

You can see the frames in this part of my thread.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post17093840
post #30 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrs2806 View Post

I'm pretty much shocked by how helpful you guys are. I've never seen a forum community so eager to respond. That's utterly awesome.

We are generally pretty helpful, but you had two pluses IMHO -

1. Good thread title
2. unique issues.

There is only so much advice we can give to a guy who comes in with a basic rectangle. It gets a little repetitive. Your room, is fun to think through.

We haven't even gotten into soundproofing and the usual topics. Big mentioned getting Erskine's advice. If you look at the stickies there is a pro design service. For $600 they will give you a basic plan, including acoustic treatments, speaker placements, etc. Worth thinking about.

Also, the starting a build link in my sig has some of the usual tips in it.

Finally, I'll add kudos on your sketchup work. Nice job.
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