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Official Mitsubishi hc4000 ONLY Thread - Page 72

post #2131 of 2855
Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

I think the Benq w7000 is going to be good regardless, I would hope.

The problem with 3D is that so much brightness is lost through the 3D glasses that PJ manufactures have been upping the lumens output, but that makes black levels worse, unless they increased contrast performance by the same amount. That hasn't really happened with DLP or LCD, and LCOS tech has enough native contrast to spare, but it seems that once the JVC's (and maybe other LCOS's?) lose some of that new lamp brightness, they start to get increased 3D ghosting effects.

So 2D is still great with JVC's, but DLP/LCD's don't seem to be making any strides in 2D performance, and if anything, seem to be taking a step back due to the brighter (for 3D) models that sacrifice some of that black level to make up for the brightness lost in 3D mode.

So my guess is that the W7000 isn't gonna be any better for 2D than the W6000. In fact, the first user measurements on the Mits HC7800 showed it had WAY worse native and ansi contrast than the HC4000, though those measurements have yet to be backed up by others.
post #2132 of 2855
And I've been following the JVC RS45 thread and the first reports from posters who also have/had the RS40 report no 2D PQ improvements, and marginal if any 3D improvements. Seems the ones that were upgrading from RS40>RS45 were doing it for the new lens memory feature.

They are also saying they could only get about $2200 for their used RS40's,-----so that might be an option for some of us thinking of upgrading from our HC3800/4000's.
post #2133 of 2855
Quote:
Originally Posted by fleaman View Post

And I've been following the JVC RS45 thread and the first reports from posters who also have/had the RS40 report no 2D PQ improvements, and marginal if any 3D improvements. Seems the ones that were upgrading from RS40>RS45 were doing it for the new lens memory feature.

They are also saying they could only get about $2200 for their used RS40's,-----so that might be an option for some of us thinking of upgrading from our HC3800/4000's.

Bingo...my only problem with lcos is motion and convergence I know blacks are better but I like dlp sharpness and motion...not sure I could live with the LCOS or not...motion is what kill it for me an LCD...plus the JVC lasmps are pricey...I'm probably stuck here until something really comes out better...the other one I might jump on is the Infocus 8602, I think that one would be a step up and maybe next year they can be had for cheap....well I can only wish
post #2134 of 2855
There's also been scary posts about JVC lamps premature dimming and even worse, optical blocks(engines?) going bad just outside of warranty time and JVC quoting $2k+ to repair ---so the customer is essentially S.O.L.
post #2135 of 2855
Thread Starter 
I would never own just 1 projector, I have a DLP as well. If I had to just pick one projector, most likely I would have a DLP only, but that's still not an easy decision.

That said, I've seen some other projectors beat up a Mits hc4000 for some movies and shows (like Game of Thrones, Harry Potter, and The Universe series, and some others). Still the Mits wins by a decent margin in anything that isn't too dark, but these others win in almost evening time as well. Once you get to evening time brightness or darker, then it becomes real obvious.

So it's one set of trade-offs for another.

The JVC isn't for the non-risk taker. It's about convergence luck, I've seen only seen a couple LCD's or LCOS with good to great convergence, and it makes a HUGE frigging difference on how lucky you get. I wouldn't recommend putting excessive hours on an expensive JVC, everyone should own a cheaper or alternate DLP for this, it is unsafe to load an LCOS up with hours, the panels degrade over time.

The Benq w7000 is a farther generation apart than the others, it's a few years from the w6000. The w6000 would be bright enough for 3D if it had 3D without any changes. The Native contrast on the Benq w1200 was higher than the Benq w6000, basically identical to the Mits hc4000 and the w1200 was super bright even with good native contrast, so we'll see. I don't know what that means, but I doubt it's the same projector as the w6000 like the JVC RS-45 is the same as the RS-40, because the w7000 has a different color wheel (faster) and some other differences.

Still the JVC will be fun to check out and maybe keep it. We'll see.
post #2136 of 2855
Some day you'll splurge on the RS 35 and wish you had just done that from the start.

P.S. it's interesting you mention other PJs beating up the Mits on Game of Thrones, I watched every episode of that here (as opposed to True Blood which we watched on our friend's RS 35) and thought it looked fantastic.
post #2137 of 2855
Thread Starter 
$5000 for a used projector, I doubt I can talk myself into that unless I find a bag of money on the street.

Every projector looks amazing on Game of Thrones, it's probably some of the best and most consistent camera work ever done for how complicated the camera work is. The lighting is so good in that series that they rarely ever have contrast blow-outs like you see in most camera work that try to film like that. That said, the Mits hc4000 looks great on the series, but it doesn't quite match the projectors with better blacks, the series just has a lot of dynamic lighting that makes native contrast important.

I thought the space/star scenes in Green Lantern and Thor were cool, needed an LCOS for those though, but the movies themselves weren't so great. Kind of reminds me of Transformers, bad movie, cool looking scenes.
post #2138 of 2855
Hi
I just loaded up Pacific on BR, and the dark scenes were pretty bad... there seems to be a lot of loss of detail, is there some link to some settings I can use?

The bright scenes were very impressive, but the night scenes are no good (I have watched them on my Kuro, and I know it's not a fair comparison in case someone comes to the defense of the Mits) and I want to know if I can do something about those dark scenes.

Thanks
post #2139 of 2855
Quote:
Originally Posted by petetherock View Post

Hi
I just loaded up Pacific on BR, and the dark scenes were pretty bad... there seems to be a lot of loss of detail, is there some link to some settings I can use?

The bright scenes were very impressive, but the night scenes are no good (I have watched them on my Kuro, and I know it's not a fair comparison in case someone comes to the defense of the Mits) and I want to know if I can do something about those dark scenes.

Thanks

Have you calibrated it....what kind of room are you watching it in, are the walls light colored, is the ceiling whilte, are there any lights on...lots of things that can affect the black levels. While inky blacks are not its forte, I never find them lacking, I mean would I like them darker, sure but for it;s price point it puts out an impressive picture but I have dark walls and mine is fully calibrated...just the different gamma settings ( cinema, video, etc..) can and do affect the black levels. Grab a test disk and at least set the brightness and contrast..and use the gamma setting of cinema, that should get you closer although if you have light colored ceilings and/or sidewalls we have seen that impact black levels also...
post #2140 of 2855
Thread Starter 
The projector does better black levels at farthest throw if you can wing it. The black levels are not the strong point, but they are decent once you the brightness is correct and the lamp is sufficiently worn in.
post #2141 of 2855
Quote:
Originally Posted by bishopt View Post

Have you calibrated it....what kind of room are you watching it in, are the walls light colored, is the ceiling whilte, are there any lights on...lots of things that can affect the black levels. While inky blacks are not its forte, I never find them lacking, I mean would I like them darker, sure but for it;s price point it puts out an impressive picture but I have dark walls and mine is fully calibrated...just the different gamma settings ( cinema, video, etc..) can and do affect the black levels. Grab a test disk and at least set the brightness and contrast..and use the gamma setting of cinema, that should get you closer although if you have light colored ceilings and/or sidewalls we have seen that impact black levels also...

I have a full blackout room (curtains etc), albeit in a light colored room. But that's what I am asking, is there some settings I can use to get going. I used the ones on the project reviews website, and that was my basis of comparison, so if someone has some settings I can use to improve my situation, that will be really nice.

I have no access to professional help, so you guys are my gurus

Cheers.
post #2142 of 2855
Thread Starter 
What is your screen size, screen material, and screen gain?
post #2143 of 2855
Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

What is your screen size, screen material, and screen gain?

I posted that with no reply remember, you and a couple of others mumbled something about us metric worshippers...

I use a basic Da-lite 2m wide screen, with a gain of 1.0, and I sit 3m from it, and I site the HC 4000 on a coffee table 40cm high, which is about 2.4m from the screen, and I use the widest setting since my room is quite tiny. This gives me an approximate diagonal size of 85-90 inches.

The image is about 75cm above the floor. I am currently using
- cinema gamma
- BC off
- lamp standard instead of low
- color temp warm
- the rest of the settings are mostly out of the box numbers
post #2144 of 2855
Thread Starter 
Well this is simple, your black levels are bad because the image is too bright. It may not look too bright as our eyes can take a large varying range of brightness, but it is WAY too bright at this size.

You need an ND filter or a gray screen for such a small screen. ND filters can be had for around $50 or less, get a glass one not a plastic one.

You're likely getting at least 20 fL on a new lamp IF you were in LOW, maybe more, that is pretty darn bright.

Why are you running the lamp at standard for such a small screen?
The lamp should be set to low. Also Color Temp on Medium might help a little.

Lower brightness and contrast as much as you can without losing too much detail, you can even enable the Setup 7.5% option which will make your gamma darker across the board, you will lose detail if you do this, but it can help with an overly bright image temporarily until you get the ND filter or the lamp wears in.
post #2145 of 2855
Thanks coder, will try those settings first.

I must say the brighter mode gives me a nice option when I forget to draw my blinds, or have some light leak from somewhere in my living area.

Cheers.
post #2146 of 2855
Quote:
Originally Posted by petetherock View Post

I have a full blackout room (curtains etc), albeit in a light colored room. But that's what I am asking, is there some settings I can use to get going. I used the ones on the project reviews website, and that was my basis of comparison, so if someone has some settings I can use to improve my situation, that will be really nice.

I have no access to professional help, so you guys are my gurus

Cheers.

Well, you shouldn't really use someone else's settings, even if it was from a pro review site. At the very least you need to pop a calibration disc in and do the bright/contrast adjustments, if you haven't already.

Quote:
Originally Posted by petetherock View Post

Thanks coder, will try those settings first.

I must say the brighter mode gives me a nice option when I forget to draw my blinds, or have some light leak from somewhere in my living area.

Cheers.

Well, the pic quality in dark scenes will of course be crap with any light leaking onto your screen, NO PJ will look good under those circumstances. Of course with sports, etc., it's usually ok. But you asked about dark scenes on the Pacific blu's. So, this is the most important regarding dark scene performance>>>
> Low LAMP!!
> No ambient light!
> Dark walls/ceilings/floors ----at least near the PJ screen.

Of course a Kuro doesn't have to worry about these things as it's not a PJ. But if you want to get closer to the Kuro performance in black scenes, you'll have to do the above.
post #2147 of 2855
Also petetherock, how many hrs on your lamp?
post #2148 of 2855
Ok looking to replace my Benq PE7700. Just not going to repair it again. So I was really looking hard at the Mitsubishi HC4000 and the Benq W1200. I have a few things that I'm wanting to clear up and make a decision. My theater room has a 133" Screen so I need a projector that can give me a bright enough image. My room is also blacked out completely so there's no Ambient light unless I turn one on. But...I also game on the projector so I can't deal with too much lag or my Modern Warfare 3 time won't be fun lol

So from what I've read the HC4000 is just awesome in every aspect but it is much dimmer than the W1200. That worries me with my screen size. Anyone here driving a larger image with it? Impressions? My PE7700 was only rated at 1100 Lumens and did great so I'm hoping that the Mits will do fine as well.

Has anyone gamed with it?
post #2149 of 2855
Quote:
Originally Posted by ptsaras View Post

So from what I've read the HC4000 is just awesome in every aspect but it is much dimmer than the W1200. That worries me with my screen size. Anyone here driving a larger image with it? Impressions? My PE7700 was only rated at 1100 Lumens and did great so I'm hoping that the Mits will do fine as well.

I don't know much about the W1200, but the HC4000 should be much brighter than the PE7700 when both are calibrated and in the same lamp modes. The manufactures lumen rating (assuming that 1100 lumen PE7700 rating was the manufacture specs?) is usually goosed. Meaning, they calibrated it for max lumens when they take that measure, which usually looks like crap. I believe the real world lumens of the PE7700 in low lamp, calibrated, is quite a bit lower than the HC4000.

That being said, I think the W1200 is even brighter than the HC4000. But for that screen size I'd look at the W6000 too.
post #2150 of 2855
Quote:
Originally Posted by fleaman View Post

I don't know much about the W1200, but the HC4000 should be much brighter than the PE7700 when both are calibrated and in the same lamp modes. The manufactures lumen rating (assuming that 1100 lumen PE7700 rating was the manufacture specs?) is usually goosed. Meaning, they calibrated it for max lumens when they take that measure, which usually looks like crap. I believe the real world lumens of the PE7700 in low lamp, calibrated, is quite a bit lower than the HC4000.

That being said, I think the W1200 is even brighter than the HC4000. But for that screen size I'd look at the W6000 too.

Thanks for the response...Yeah I saw that the W1200 is $874 but I'm worried about the input lag with Gaming. Do you know if the W6000 or the HC4000 have lag issues with gaming. LOL love playing Modern Warfare 3 in my Theater.
post #2151 of 2855
Thread Starter 
Mits hc4000 has one of the lowest lags for gaming, around 30ms. The w1200 has high lag, not sure about the w6000.

I wouldn't get a Mits hc4000 for a 133" with a 1.0 gain screen, but I know some would,
but my preference is to maintain a brighter image the full first 1000 to 2000 hours on the lamp.

Now if I really wanted a Mits + a big screen, I would look at some screens with some gain (1.3 gain to 1.5 gain), unless your screen already has 1.3 gain or more in which case 133" should be ok, but 1.5 gain would be even better.
post #2152 of 2855
Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

Mits hc4000 has one of the lowest lags for gaming, around 30ms. The w1200 has high lag, not sure about the w6000.

I wouldn't get a Mits hc4000 for a 133" with a 1.0 gain screen, but I know some would,
but my preference is to maintain a brighter image the full first 1000 to 2000 hours on the lamp.

Now if I really wanted a Mits + a big screen, I would look at some screens with some gain (1.3 gain to 1.5 gain), unless your screen already has 1.3 gain or more in which case 133" should be ok, but 1.5 gain would be even better.

Yeah my screen is a 1.0 that's why I was thinking I wanted a brighter Projector. I heard the new 1.04 Firmware for the W1200 might take the lag down to around 25ms with the FI and NR stuff turned off which would be perfect for gaming. I haven't confirmed that yet.
post #2153 of 2855
Quote:
Originally Posted by ptsaras View Post

Thanks for the response...Yeah I saw that the W1200 is $874 but I'm worried about the input lag with Gaming. Do you know if the W6000 or the HC4000 have lag issues with gaming. LOL love playing Modern Warfare 3 in my Theater.

Ptsara, I recently picked up the HC4000 and I have played on it for about 30 hours now, and prior to this I had a plasma. I can detect no lag of any kind and it looks outstanding with the Mits. I have played Skyrim, Battlefield, Assassins, Forza, Iracing and Batman...they all look great!

I'm running 100" at 14.5 ft so the blacks and light levels are great in low mode. Man...I love this thing.
post #2154 of 2855
Quote:
Originally Posted by Torque Spike View Post


Ptsara, I recently picked up the HC4000 and I have played on it for about 30 hours now, and prior to this I had a plasma. I can detect no lag of any kind and it looks outstanding with the Mits. I have played Skyrim, Battlefield, Assassins, Forza, Iracing and Batman...they all look great!

I'm running 100" at 14.5 ft so the blacks and light levels are great in low mode. Man...I love this thing.

Thanks for the report. I bought a W1200 because I found an amazing deal I couldn't pass up. I'm hoping that the new firmware helps to correct the input lag with games. If not I'll be returning it, but I've got my fingers crossed.

It will arrive tomorrow and I hope to do some thorough testing this weekend.
post #2155 of 2855
Anyone here using the 4x2 matrix switcher from Monoprice, 4 ins and 2 outs? Any issues? How long a cable run can you get away with?
post #2156 of 2855
Quote:
Originally Posted by fleaman View Post

Also petetherock, how many hrs on your lamp?

I am going onto 15 hours, it's still dim with coderguy's settings, but it's been a little hectic so I will try to get down to some calibration with a disc later this weekend.

With TV programs, bright scenes, the HC 4000 has been impressive.
post #2157 of 2855
hi guys i just got hc 4000 and i have a problem.

I'm projecting on wall until my screen arrive, so one edge of the picture from bottom to top is 55.1/2" and the other is 53.1/2". I have 2 inch difference.

the problem is i can see this. the line on top is not flat, i can see that is not on level.

does anyone know how to fix it??

thank's
post #2158 of 2855
Rotate the projector until the image is square. Right now it is not projecting at a 90 degree angle to the wall. It's turned a bit to the left or right.
post #2159 of 2855
Quote:
Originally Posted by curttard View Post

Rotate the projector until the image is square. Right now it is not projecting at a 90 degree angle to the wall. It's turned a bit to the left or right.

Thank's , It worked.
post #2160 of 2855
Quote:
Originally Posted by curttard View Post

Anyone here using the 4x2 matrix switcher from Monoprice, 4 ins and 2 outs? Any issues? How long a cable run can you get away with?

Yes I have that exact one. No issues at all for a good year now I think? I run a monoprice 25ft hdmi from one of the outs to my HC3800. I have a Oppo 83SE.

Haven't tried anything longer than that.
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