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Official Mitsubishi hc4000 ONLY Thread - Page 85

post #2521 of 2855
Quote:
Originally Posted by PanteraGSTK View Post

When I said the front wall I'm including the side walls, floor, and ceiling. I'm going to go out from the front wall about 3 feet or so to cover all of the surrounding surfaces. I figure that will help quite a bit as far as the reflected light. Doing the front wall may not have that much of an effect, but it will be more aesthetically pleasing (to the wife anyway). That is as good as it's going to get since this is a rent house and I'd rather not take the time to paint the room if I just have to undo it when I decide to move in the next few years.


From what I have seen I would start with the side walls if they are close to the screen..that is what I have seen make the most difference.
post #2522 of 2855
Quote:
Originally Posted by bishopt View Post

From what I have seen I would start with the side walls if they are close to the screen..that is what I have seen make the most difference.

Will do. Thanks.

How long are you guys letting your bulb "break in" before you recalibrate? The screen shots I see everywhere are not even close to what I'm actually seeing at home in relation to black. Mine looks like the overexposed shots on projectorreviews.com, maybe more. Just trying to figure out if this is normal.

294
post #2523 of 2855
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by John P View Post

However JVC will never have the perfect convergence of a single chip DLP.

My JVC is tiny bit sharper than the Mits hc4000's I've owned (I had 2 and seen another) and I also owned the Mits hc3800, the convergence isn't 100% perfect, but it's so close that the better focus uniformity overrides the tiny convergence error which is invisible even 4 feet back.
4 out of the last 6 JVC's I've seen were just as sharp as the Mits hc4000, and probably overall I'd prefer to use HTPC text on the JVC (I know on my near-perfect JVC I definitely do). The JVC has a better lens in it, but the hc4000 is no slouch either.
If you want a DLP with perfect sharpness and focus uniformity, pretty much the w6000/w7000 gets you a tiny closer, but the Runcos are the best bet. Where the hc4000 beats the JVC is just on poorer sources and motion (like Cable TV and Sports and some Blurays that have noise in them).

IMO though, you can't beat the average JVC even with a $1200 DLP, at best you can tie it in sharpness (unless you get a JVC with bad convergence).

I've owned all these for a long period of time, so I should know...
Edited by coderguy - 6/19/12 at 3:29pm
post #2524 of 2855
One thing I forgot to ask is: does anyone use HDMI CEC or serial to control the projector using other equipment? It doesn't seem that this projector supports CEC.
post #2525 of 2855
My HC4000 showed up last week while I was out of town on a business trip, and I finally had a chance to at least power it up today. My initial reaction is "let's hear it for small screens!". Shooting against a white wall in a white room with very little light control still produced a reasonably acceptable image. The fact that it's only ~80" is undoubtedly a significant factor. Still, it allays my concern that watching football etc might struggle in my room - once I get some darker blinds on the windows and some darker paint around the screen I suspect it'll be pretty good.
Very preliminary playing around with the 2.35 setup seems to indicate that it's going to work just fine. I can't verify whether zooming out to enable full-frame 16:9 is going to work until I get it ceiling mounted, though - the height difference between the 2 modes may end up being too large..
I probably won't have a chance to mount it and start on any real screen experiments for a couple weeks, but I may get lucky and find some time.
post #2526 of 2855
Quote:
Originally Posted by dwk123 View Post

My HC4000 showed up last week while I was out of town on a business trip, and I finally had a chance to at least power it up today. My initial reaction is "let's hear it for small screens!". Shooting against a white wall in a white room with very little light control still produced a reasonably acceptable image. The fact that it's only ~80" is undoubtedly a significant factor. Still, it allays my concern that watching football etc might struggle in my room - once I get some darker blinds on the windows and some darker paint around the screen I suspect it'll be pretty good.
Very preliminary playing around with the 2.35 setup seems to indicate that it's going to work just fine. I can't verify whether zooming out to enable full-frame 16:9 is going to work until I get it ceiling mounted, though - the height difference between the 2 modes may end up being too large..
I probably won't have a chance to mount it and start on any real screen experiments for a couple weeks, but I may get lucky and find some time.


Congrats, I think the more time you get to spend with it and get it dialed in you will be really pleased...Sports is the second thing that I watch the most on mine, college football..and I find It is easily watchable with some ambient light so I think you will be ok, however anything that you can do to drop light from reaching the screen will yield a better picture...welcome to the HC4000 club biggrin.gif
post #2527 of 2855
Hello all... newish owner of an HC4000 here. I think I have read just about everything I can about this projector around the web and gotta say that I really appreciate all the good info and posts that some of you have contributed here over the years.

My setup: HC4000 ceiling mounted 16' feet back to 120" Elite Screen Sable Cinewhite Screen. I've only put about 10 hours on the unit.

I have a few questions that I'd love some advice/opinions on.

Mainly, to my dismay... I bought this projector and pretty much immediately noticed the RBE and fairly harshly to be honest. I did view it in a showroom and didn't notice it at that time, however I suppose it wasn't all that dark there, nor was I looking very hard; talking to the salesman etc. Anyhow, I can't return the projector as I would have to take a substantial hit via a restocking fee and paying for the shipping costs that were covered by the selling company. Essentially, I'm going to try to live with it, adapt to it as best I can, etc. etc.

I know from reading that I may over time become accustomed to RBE, or I may not. I realize this and will just sell the unit at a loss if it's terribly bothersome some hours of use from now. With this in mind, my question for those who have the HC4000 is what conditions and settings have you employed that have reduced or helped the RBE.

Admittedly, I did tweak the AVMemory 1, 2 and 3 settings based on some reviews around the web and then further mucked with the image to my taste fairly early on, so I could have done my viewing setup some disservice there. I would be open to resetting to factory default to start over.

What I have done:

1) Projector Distance -- after testing on the floor for a while at varying distances, I decided to mount this fairly far back (16') in hopes of reducing RBE because of lower brightness at this distance.
2) Screen -- I went with a larger screen, to dim the image a bit and Cinewhite, because I simply didn't want to sink money into Grey for the time being.
3) Lighting -- my room is very easily light controlled, in the basement, with pot lights (able to be aimed away from the screen) and sconces on dimmer switches.
4) ND filter -- I have ordered a Hoya ND2 filter... just to try it, 35 bucks isn't much to lose.

Questions:

1) Room colour -- my room is currently a light beige, carpeting light beige, ceiling white. With the lights off, I can see some wash-out from the ceiling and carpet. I know that ideally you want a dark room, dark ceiling, etc. but have read that a lighter room and some ambient light could help RBE a bit... any suggestions on what to paint, or what to do to the environment that might help?
2) Settings -- this is my big question. Realizing of course that settings will vary by user/environment and so on. What specific settings (and associated values if possible) have you found to help RBE? I have BC off, Low Lamp mode on, etc. but not sure about other settings, including contrast and brightness.

Would calibration (THX or otherwise) help RBE or accentuate it this early on in the lamp's life... I've read conflicting ideas about this.

Any info is hugely appreciated! I will post any results I have in hopes of helping others considering this unit or similar DLPs in the future.
post #2528 of 2855
Thread Starter 
You can combat the RBE a little by reducing the contrast control (the peak whites), and the brightness. You will crush blacks and peaks, but it'll will reduce RBE. Also using a gamma that has a slightly more washed out look in dark scenes will help reduce RBE. Not great options I know, but just saying they are there. However, if you think in terms of contrast, the Mits hc4000 really shines contrast wise, so even if you purposefully calibrate to reduce contrast, it's still probably higher contrast than many DLP projectors in this price range. The ND filter will definitely help.

Sounds like you have most things figured out, and you probably won't lose all that much. Really the value of a projector is lost more when it first goes out the door than over its age, so you can probably sell a relatively new hc4000 (even with 500 hours) for at least $800, and maybe as high as $950.. So you're losses probably won't be that bad. As an RBE sensitive person that once owned this projector, I can tell you it's a mixed bag but it's not too bad, you'll just have certain scenes in certain movies drive you a little batty (some stuff probably won't bother you at all).
Edited by coderguy - 6/22/12 at 12:19am
post #2529 of 2855
Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

You can combat the RBE a little by reducing the contrast control (the peak whites), and the brightness. You will crush blacks and peaks, but it'll will reduce RBE. Also using a gamma that has a slightly more washed out look in dark scenes will help reduce RBE. Not great options I know, but just saying they are there. However, if you think in terms of contrast, the Mits hc4000 really shines contrast wise, so even if you purposefully calibrate to reduce contrast, it's still probably higher contrast than many DLP projectors in this price range. The ND filter will definitely help.
Sounds like you have most things figured out, and you probably won't lose all that much. Really the value of a projector is lost more when it first goes out the door than over its age, so you can probably sell a relatively new hc4000 (even with 500 hours) for at least $800, and maybe as high as $950.. So you're losses probably won't be that bad. As an RBE sensitive person that once owned this projector, I can tell you it's a mixed bag but it's not too bad, you'll just have certain scenes in certain movies drive you a little batty (some stuff probably won't bother you at all).

Thanks for the response coderguy! I have been dialing the Contrast and Brightness well into the negatives but wasn't sure if there was some sweet spot that people have found for them. Will try the gamma.

I think another problem is that I am somewhat hard of hearing so prefer to watch films with subtitles on...looking down and up repeatedly from subtitle to movie obviously can make RBE pretty bothersome. At least I am using a WDTVLiveHub with customizable options and have set the subs to grey colour as well as moved them up higher into the frame (and above any black border), which seems to help.

My only concern about selling it is that I would definitely have the person over to demonstrate that it works, however being an electronic device... should anything go wrong (perceived or otherwise) I'd hate to have the person knocking back at my door for a refund. At this point, hoping to keep it and just enjoy the thing.

I'll try painting the walls a bit darker than they are now and if the RBE lessens over time for me, I guess I'll just repaint it darker yet again. I definitely notice the carpet throwing a reflection back on the screen too as the 120" is pretty much on the floor, but that's what I'm dealing with using my basement as a HT!
Edited by funstuff - 6/22/12 at 12:59pm
post #2530 of 2855
Quote:
Originally Posted by funstuff View Post

1) Room colour -- my room is currently a light beige, carpeting light beige, ceiling white. With the lights off, I can see some wash-out from the ceiling and carpet. I know that ideally you want a dark room, dark ceiling, etc. but have read that a lighter room and some ambient light could help RBE a bit... any suggestions on what to paint, or what to do to the environment that might help?
.

DLP newbie, so I don't have any answers, but my current plan is to try to include some bias lighting behind the screen. Bias lighting isn't all that common with PJ setups since it's typically more effective with bright direct-view displays, but I wonder whether it might help with RBE by increasing perceived contrast at a particular brightness level. Certainly it's the best way to introduce a bit of ambient light into the system - if done properly it should enhance the picture rather than harm it. It definitely looks like it's a bit tricky to get the bias lighting intensity correct (should be 10% of peak brightness), but it may be worth looking into. The entry-level Idealume units aren't too expensive (under $100), but you can jury-rig something as a prototype for even less.
post #2531 of 2855
Quote:
Originally Posted by dwk123 View Post

DLP newbie, so I don't have any answers, but my current plan is to try to include some bias lighting behind the screen. Bias lighting isn't all that common with PJ setups since it's typically more effective with bright direct-view displays, but I wonder whether it might help with RBE by increasing perceived contrast at a particular brightness level. Certainly it's the best way to introduce a bit of ambient light into the system - if done properly it should enhance the picture rather than harm it. It definitely looks like it's a bit tricky to get the bias lighting intensity correct (should be 10% of peak brightness), but it may be worth looking into. The entry-level Idealume units aren't too expensive (under $100), but you can jury-rig something as a prototype for even less.

Sounds like it's worth a try. As long as it truly is behind the screen and not to bright, it probably won't hurt your image that much if any (from reflections).
post #2532 of 2855
Excellent suggestion, thanks! I'm thinking of rigging up some rope lighting behind for now, as a cheap and quick test trial... If I find I like it, will pursue the Idealume.
post #2533 of 2855
Quote:
Originally Posted by funstuff View Post

Excellent suggestion, thanks! I'm thinking of rigging up some rope lighting behind for now, as a cheap and quick test trial... If I find I like it, will pursue the Idealume.

I'll definitely be interested in your results. Rope light is a great way to prototype, although controlling the brightness might be a bit tricky. The color balance makes it less than ideal for a 'permanent' solution, but I don't at this point have any direct experience to know just how big an effect the color balance really is.

I have no idea whether it will help with RBE - a quick search didn't turn up much - but it seems reasonable that it might. Good luck.
post #2534 of 2855
Quote:
Originally Posted by dwk123 View Post

I'll definitely be interested in your results. Rope light is a great way to prototype, although controlling the brightness might be a bit tricky. The color balance makes it less than ideal for a 'permanent' solution, but I don't at this point have any direct experience to know just how big an effect the color balance really is.
I have no idea whether it will help with RBE - a quick search didn't turn up much - but it seems reasonable that it might. Good luck.

I will post my results.

Thinking though... since a screen isn't hard-backed the way a TV is, what is the risk of the LED lights illuminating the screen from behind? Even if I place them just inside but around the outer edge of the screen's frame. In other words, could I see bright patches on the screen where the lights are illuminating behind?
post #2535 of 2855
If you have only 10hrs or so on the lamp I think you may be panicking a bit early. My recollection of the old HC-3800 thread was that many of the users that noticed RBE early on found that it all but disappeared after about 100hrs or so. Your situation may be different with the subtitle situation that you have, but still I wouldnt do anything too drastic at this early stage.
post #2536 of 2855
Quote:
Originally Posted by funstuff View Post

I will post my results.
Thinking though... since a screen isn't hard-backed the way a TV is, what is the risk of the LED lights illuminating the screen from behind? Even if I place them just inside but around the outer edge of the screen's frame. In other words, could I see bright patches on the screen where the lights are illuminating behind?

Every screen I've had would not pass light at all. Was about as effective as a sheet of plywood! They seem to be made on a BO cloth like base.

The AT screens might be a different scenario...
post #2537 of 2855
Quote:
Originally Posted by btiltman View Post

If you have only 10hrs or so on the lamp I think you may be panicking a bit early. My recollection of the old HC-3800 thread was that many of the users that noticed RBE early on found that it all but disappeared after about 100hrs or so. Your situation may be different with the subtitle situation that you have, but still I wouldnt do anything too drastic at this early stage.

Good point, been thinking the same.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fleaman View Post

Every screen I've had would not pass light at all. Was about as effective as a sheet of plywood! They seem to be made on a BO cloth like base.
The AT screens might be a different scenario...

Now that I think of it, my Elite Sable Screen is black-backed, so I bet light won't pass through it. I will do a test with a flashlight or something.

I have never really been one to completely turn out lights when watching TV or movies so I think that the bias lighting idea is good for me regardless of RBE and the rest. I have read about the 6500k for color accuracy thing, but for now I'll probably go the rope light route and see how I like it. To keep this all on-topic re: the HC4000, I'll post my results specific to how the projector looks with the lighting setup I have, if RBE is affected, etc.

Great suggestions so far, if anyone has anything else to say about RBE that might not be obvious (settings, environment or otherwise) please let me know!
post #2538 of 2855
Got the PJ mounted yesterday, and we watched our first movie firing at a white wall. (chose Alien, since we saw Prometheus last weekend when family was in town. Alien is a significantly better movie, despite the laughable depiction of computers). Very happy with the results. I'm running in 2.31:1 mode with a width of about 78" viewing from 8-9'. I thought DVD looked perfectly acceptable - good enough that our idea of working through our backlog of unwatched dvds before going blu-ray still seems to make a lot of sense.. No RBE for me when watching movies or from a quick check on NHL network for hockey. My wife didn't complain about it either, so hopefully we're in the clear. My eyes did wig out when displaying the grid test pattern though.

Now I have to work on the screen. I have all the materials, but we'll be out of town from the 4th through the weekend, so it'll probably be a couple weeks.
post #2539 of 2855
Quote:
Originally Posted by dwk123 View Post

Got the PJ mounted yesterday, and we watched our first movie firing at a white wall. (chose Alien, since we saw Prometheus last weekend when family was in town. Alien is a significantly better movie, despite the laughable depiction of computers). Very happy with the results. I'm running in 2.31:1 mode with a width of about 78" viewing from 8-9'. I thought DVD looked perfectly acceptable - good enough that our idea of working through our backlog of unwatched dvds before going blu-ray still seems to make a lot of sense.. No RBE for me when watching movies or from a quick check on NHL network for hockey. My wife didn't complain about it either, so hopefully we're in the clear. My eyes did wig out when displaying the grid test pattern though.
Now I have to work on the screen. I have all the materials, but we'll be out of town from the 4th through the weekend, so it'll probably be a couple weeks.

Oh... you need Blu-ray. If you thought DVD looked good, you ain't seen nuthin' yet! biggrin.gif For one thing, there's a much greater color fidelity range besides the big improvement in detail. Watch a Disney or PIXAR flick, for instance, and you'll be floored.

It's like buying a Philly cheesesteak sandwich and only eating the bun!
post #2540 of 2855
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post

It's like buying a Philly cheesesteak sandwich and only eating the bun!

.... and the bun is stale
post #2541 of 2855
Oh, believe me I understand the benefit. My point is that coming from where we are, even DVD quality looks pretty darn good. So, why not take advantage of the 'grace period' and ride that out for a bit until we've worked off some of our existing unwatched DVDs (and things on the immediate re-watch list)? I know that once we watch BR there's no going back, which would pretty much immediately relegate our existing DVD collection to the dust bin.
No doubt I'll cave sooner rather than later, but avoiding as much of the 're-purchase content' problem as possible would be a good thing.
post #2542 of 2855
Quote:
Originally Posted by dwk123 View Post

Alien is a significantly better movie, despite the laughable depiction of computers).

Alien was released in 1979 ... the typical available "Home Computers" were:

1) Apple II
2) Commodore 64
3) TRS-80

If you were a real computer "gangsta" you might have had an S100 Bus based CP/M machine ...

Any "serious" work was done via 200 Baud Modem from a "barely conscious terminal" connected to some variety of "mainframe" (DEC-10, IBM 360/370 etc) ... or in some cases via a punch-card reader connected to the same ... At the time, the "laughable depiction of computers" was not that far removed from reality, but still seemed "futuristic."

That is all ... please continue the HC4000 discussion now. smile.gif

PS: Suddenly, I feel old biggrin.gif
post #2543 of 2855
Quote:
Originally Posted by dwk123 View Post

Oh, believe me I understand the benefit. My point is that coming from where we are, even DVD quality looks pretty darn good. So, why not take advantage of the 'grace period' and ride that out for a bit until we've worked off some of our existing unwatched DVDs (and things on the immediate re-watch list)? I know that once we watch BR there's no going back, which would pretty much immediately relegate our existing DVD collection to the dust bin.
No doubt I'll cave sooner rather than later, but avoiding as much of the 're-purchase content' problem as possible would be a good thing.

Trouble is, you're gonna wanna watch the movie again on blu ray (assuming the flick is good).
post #2544 of 2855
Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTVChallenged View Post

PS: Suddenly, I feel old biggrin.gif

Yeah, ok - I should have said "laughable depiction of supposedly advanced futuristic computer technology". I date from that time as well, having started on a Vic-20 in jr high, so I fully understand what they were depicting, and it probably did seem just advanced enough to make the point. Ironically, it might just work even better from a modern perspective as long as you can buy into a 'retro-futuristic' setting - kinda like Brazil.
post #2545 of 2855
Ahh, the Commodore 64! Such simpler times... with better sci-fi movies than a lot of today's crap. biggrin.gif
post #2546 of 2855
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post

Ahh, the Commodore 64! Such simpler times... with better sci-fi movies than a lot of today's crap. biggrin.gif

'In a world where people actually used computers to .... "compute" stuff ... instead of just cruising AVS and tweeting all day ... no one can hear you scream.'
post #2547 of 2855
I know I am a little late to this party, but I thought I would share my thoughts on this fantastic bargain of a projector. I purchased this bad boy in Mid-April and since then, I have now put over 300 hours on the thing. (Thanks in large part to the Los Angeles Kings deciding they wanted to play hockey thru June. Probably 1/3rd of the hours was watching hockey. GO KINGS!) I decided not to do a review right away because I like to sit with something awhile, before I make a decision.

Bottom Line: This thing is worth every penny and a lot more.

The Good:
I set up a 94” 2.35:1 screen from 10 Feet away. My couch is directly below the projector and I can barely hear it in Low Lamp mode (90% of the time) and is not distracting at Normal lamp mode (Daytime sports viewing). The set up for a 2:35:1 screen was easier than expected and works great at a push of the button.

Brightness - at 10 feet away it is far better than I anticipated. I am using a White Vinyl Sided panel from home depot as a diy screen (Do-able?) and the brightness is great. No issue.

Native contrast - is fantastic, as has been mentioned throughout this thread and others, in scenes with any light this thing presents a fantastic image. My one pet peeve with projectors I’ve seen in the past has been dynamic irises. I always found it distracting, even on some of the newer ones (Epson). So I wanted a high native contrast projector with no Dynamic Iris and so it was this one or a JVC (for triple the price).

Sharpness - is great as well, no issues there. I haven’t noticed any uniformity problems either.

Color - is a definite strong point.

Bad source material – This surprised me, especially at how well (relative) some DVD’s looked along with Netflix and Hulu+. A+

The Average:

Shadow Detail and Black Level: I throw these two together, since they are linked to each other. The black level isn’t that great, but it’s not bad. I think the shadow detail makes up for the not so inky blacks. I would rather have shadow detail, than crushed blacks. But, that’s just me.

Rainbows (RBE) – I see them, some times and only when I am not looking for them, of course. One quick note: I see them more when I have a few alcoholic drinks in me, especially when watching hockey. My guess: White Ice, slow eyes and brain = RBE.

The Not so good:
Lens Shift: There is none, so I had to measure more than a few times to verify where I wanted to project the image and even then, it ended up being slightly off.

Dark Movies: Watched “The Road”, which I really enjoy (enjoy isn’t really the right word for that movie) and the image is not the greatest, but that is the only time, so far, where I wasn’t wowed by the projector.

That’s all I got. This thing is awesome and thanks to everyone in this forum for their input. May post pics later when I have the time.
post #2548 of 2855
Burnt lamp or other...?
The image suddenly flickered and turned darker and I noticed a strong burning smell coming from the HC4000. I inmediatly switched it off. I bought it in February 2011 and the lamp has 967 hours on it (always in low mode). I understand the proyector is still under warranty (2 years) but not the lamp.
- Is that smell coming from a dead lamp? Isn't it supposed to last 5000 hours?
- What should I check?
- If I have to replace the lamp I've done a search and found out that there there are some "non oficial" replacement lamps being priced much cheaper, almost half. Is it worth it? Any one in particular?
Thank you very much.
post #2549 of 2855
I you suggest you take the lamp out and look at it. Regardless of hours some lamps age prematurely. The bulb gets a smokey charcoal gray color as they age, the darker the older. Also look for any bubbling in the bulb - like the bulb is melting. This type of lamp is under very high pressure and can explode like a cherry bomb; if you see bubbling I would stop using it.

I tried a Non OEM bulb in my Infocus projector, it was much cheaper but instead of having a 250W bulb it had a 180W bulb. Spend the extra money and buy an OEM bulb.

The Mits bulb warranty is 6 months. If you bought the projector with a credit card the warranty was likely extended to one year. Check your credit card rules.
post #2550 of 2855
Unbeliavable, I removed the lamp unit and found a small burnt bug! How could it get in there? There was also a mosquito inside. The burnt bug left a small black spot on the glass that I have cleaned using a fiber cloth for optics. I have been able to remove the black spot but there still is a small shaded area on the glass (about 5x2 mm). I have now switched the projector back on and the smell seems gone. No problems in the image so far (maybe softer focus, but I'm watching SD TV). Fingers crossed!
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