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Official Panasonic 2011 TC-PxxS30 Thread - Page 17

post #481 of 520
If i were just a movie guy, I'd blast down to BestBuy, and get myself a 50" UT50. But, i'm a gamer so the choices(because of input lag being all over the place on
every model) is much more severely limmited especially for me because i'm looking for a 1 frame/16ms capable set and nothing over the 20ms mark.

The 2011 Panasonic sets apperantly have less lag than the 2012 models, so now i'm basically finding myself looking online for used sets. I'd normally go for the ST30 since
it has 3D and more control options, 'but' it has that filter(Like this years ST50 and onwards) which makes the image looks less clear and crisp. i couldn't care less about that for movies,
but for gaming i want that extra crispness/clearness so that counts the ST50 out...Yet i'd LOVE to have 3D...But eh, i could always possibly upgrade to a Panasonic 2013 Plasma if Panasonic ends up dishing out 16ms sets. XP

Anyways! Just wondering if anybody has gamed on the S30? How do you think the black levels would compare to this years X5? Which i currently own btw. It delivers WONDERFUL color, it's the brightest
plasma i've ever seen in 'game mode' when gaming or 'vivid' and the blacks for me are pretty solid and get the job done. Motion handeling could be a smidge better, but i'm perfectly fine with it. I just need 1080p(the ability to display true 720p), 16ms of input lag and a 50" screen. But yup! There's a 50" S30 in 'like-new' condition going for $900 + Shipping online,which seems a bit overpriced, but i'll deal. OR i can get the 60" for $600 + $190 shipping which would fit my new HDTV stand perfectly, but i worry that 720p Wii U games will take a hit in quality if i go that large...hmmm vhat to do. XP But i've got to get some facts straight. Input lag being the main thing here. the X5 i believe is 2 frames/32ms through component. I'll know soon enough how. 'HDMI' fairs instead in the next few days which i'm hoping reduces lag. But it could very well raise it.

If the S30 does 16ms, i'm going to return the X5 and order this baby which will be my new 1080p 50"incher in time for the Wii U and of course for movie needs. cool.gif
Edited by WaveBoy - 7/28/12 at 7:26pm
post #482 of 520
I cannot compare to a 2012 model, but I currently have a P60S30 and I play BF3 on my 360 all the time (HDMI through a Denon AVR-991). I don't notice any lag at all. Also, it is bright enough for me and the blacks are dark, but BF3 isn't a "color popping" game. Forza 4 looks/plays just fine as well. My kids play the Wii so I don't pay too much attention to it.

O hope that helps a little.
post #483 of 520
Anybody know if there are any network cameras besides the panasonic cameras that work with the panasonic TVs? I would like to purchase something with a few more features for a little less $.
post #484 of 520
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1badabing2005 View Post



If you haven't touched the SD settings in SM, then you're in luck, as the SD factory values match the HD, go read them and take note.


What I noticed in the factory settings from all the data that I have seen so far:


R-Cut, B-Cut, G-cut, All-cut values are all 80

G-Drv and All-Drv are FF


All the B-Drv warm values across all modes are the same, so if you can read it in SD, that's your ref


All the R-Drv warm values across all modes are the same, so if you can read it in SD, that's your ref


All the B-Drv normal values across all modes are the same, so if you can read it in SD, that's your ref


All the R-Drv normal values across all modes are the same, so if you can read it in SD, that's your ref


All the B-Drv cool values across all modes are the same, so if you can read it in SD, that's your ref


All the R-Drv cool values across all modes are the same, so if you can read it in SD, that's your ref


Here's one other big thing I noticed.

You make changes to any Setting in SM, and it changes in every picture mode (I only changed cinema settings, and it applied to all, Vivid, Custom, and std)


The good thing is that HD doesn't effect SD, and vice versa.


So going back, my posted references aren't correct.


My corrected Warm R-Drv is E5

My Corrected Warm B-Drv is 53


My corrected Normal R-Drv is D5

My Corrected Normal B-Drv is 83


My corrected Cool R-Drv is CA

My Corrected Cool B-Drv is B6


So my corrected offsets are:

R-Cut: +7

B-Cut: +5

R-Drv: +1

B-Drv: +2


The reason I had it wrong is because when I first started testing, I modified the custom settings without realizing that my cinema settings were changed.


In couple of weeks time, when I have some free time, I plan to reset everything to factory defaults and measure in cinema mode (which is the only mode I care for)

taking baseline measurements and seeing how far off it is from a good calibration, and redoing the calibration to see if the best settings I could achieve would be the same offsets posted above.

This confuses me. I u derstand the SM...and my defaults are considerably different. However.. where are you getting the +1 and +2 numbers? I have my defaults, but don't know how much to add or subtract the values
post #485 of 520
hey guys i just bought the TC-p60s30, I tried those calibration in this thread but I can't see any different. Moreover, the movie I play can't stretch out as the full resolution. I play HD movies through my computer connecting to the TV by HDMI. I also use xbox 360 to play game. Can you guys recommend me a best calibration but still keep the full screen?
post #486 of 520
Hi folks,

I'm trying to connect an optical cable from my P50S30 to go to my AVR. Do I need an engineering degree for this? I've tried 2 different cables but with the same results. I've plug the cable to the back of my AVR just fine but when I try to plug it in the back of the TV, it seems I can't push it back far enough for the cable to stay. It only seems to go in one way? Is there something I have to remove first?

I'm not feeling particularly intelligent right now redface.gif
post #487 of 520
I put in all those settings and the only thing I couldn't figure out is how you got HD size 2 because on my TV it has that line greyed out along with Zoom adjustments. Can anyone tell me how to change it?
post #488 of 520
I have the tcp60s30. Is there a way to watch netflix on it? I have the latest firmware, 1.3 but there is no netflix option.

Thanks.
post #489 of 520
My p50s30 has Netflix as well as amazon, Facebook, dlna, and a couple others, I access these with the Viera tools button on remote, Netflix interface is not great but it is there
post #490 of 520
After being dissapointed with Cinema's abnormally dim picture and milky/grey gamma, I've
finally settled with Custom mode(When set to 'Graphics' only) and i'm extremely happy with the resuls, RED PUSH aside. It's now looking extremely close to the previous 32" CRT I had
a while back!

Custom - (HDMI content set to 'Graphics' Which fixes Custom from looking harsh and completely artificial.)

Contrast: 98
Brightness: 50
Color: 40 - (That evil red push makes everybody look sun burnt at 50...Dialing it down a bit below 42 corrects this, but then everything else looks a bit washed out)
TINT: 0
Sharpness: 50

Color Temp: WARM1
Blacks: Light


I'm going to have to dive a little deeper into this thread and find out how to properly access the service menu
so i can finally get rid ofthat nasty red push. XP Once that is fixed I'll be completely satisfyed.
Edited by WaveBoy - 2/25/13 at 10:05am
post #491 of 520
While the S30 is GREAT for gaming in game mode(you get the 1 frame/16ms of lag when using 'component' cables
in GAME mode, with Color management and video noise reduction set to 'OFF' and the color matrix
being set to 'HD'), i find it to be quite the dissapointment for film. Cinema may provide the most natural looking image, but again it's just too dim, the gamma
seems a bit on the milky side(Another big dissapointment, NO gamma contol!) and like every other mode it suffers from Red push. You
basically have to knock down the color to '40' to be rid of it, but then the rest of the picture looks washed out. XP

Custom improves greatly on the brightness, but it comes at a price. Dithering, plus some nasty black & white clipping
making for an unpleasent, harsh and unatural looking picture. To knock this down you have to change HDMI content
to 'GRAPHICS' which helps out A LOT...but doesn't correct the issue. Thus, giving Cinema mode the advantage.

Ugh, i now understand the frusturation of many of the S30 owners in this thread.lol It's especially
frustrating being so used to a Sony Wega 32" SDTV TUBE TV where color issues were none existent, the motion was perefect
and the black levels(while great on the S30) were amazing and the picture was natural. I'm sure the 2013 'S60' corrects most of these issues, and i'd
be on board, but it will most likely be pushing 3 frames of lag like last years U50...IF by some miracle it CAN do 1 frame via component,
i'll be selling my S30 and getting either the 55" or 60" . XP

Edit:: Raising the Brightness from 50 - 62 in custom mode definitly helped out with the shadow detail and there doesn't seem to be any comprise in
blacks. I didn't realise i was Black-crushing the entire picture at '50', i forgot my Blacks were set to light. XP This actually made quite the difference. XD

Custom - (HDMI Content set to 'Graphcics')

Contrast: 69
Brightness: 58
Color: 47
TINT: 0
SHarpness: 50

Warm 1
Color mgmnt: ON
Size 2
Blacks: Light
Edited by WaveBoy - 3/7/13 at 11:35am
post #492 of 520
I don't find cinema too dim at all. Of course-- I watch movies in the dark, play games in the dark and have an LCD for watching tv in the daytime so...
post #493 of 520
Quote:
Originally Posted by sage11x View Post

I don't find cinema too dim at all. Of course-- I watch movies in the dark, play games in the dark and have an LCD for watching tv in the daytime so...


I don't know...Cinema a little dull to me and i too watch movies in the dark. It's a combination of the dim picture and milky grey hazey gamma. It's an enormous
dissapointment after being so accustomed to those picture perfect CRT tube TV's. HD, Progressivescan, HDMI, Widescreen
and a large screen are great and all, but i don't like the idea of sacrificing anything in order to get a few extra bells and whistles.
And actually raising the brightness past 57 in custom mode DOES seem to effect the black levels, so i'm back down to that
again. XP Shadow detail is weaker in custom, due to the low gamma...But the picture, based on the way i have
it now looks very close to my previous 2 CRT SDTV's. It's just the red push and wonky gamma/detail crushing that's ticking me off.

If i could correct the red push and gamma for custom mode in the service menu I'd be totaly at ease.lol It' like there's no inbetween with the gamma on this set.
My previous LG 42" 2011 Plasma may of had lack luster black levels, but it had absolutely nothing funky going on.
No red or green push, and you had numerous options including gamma control. Yet I got rid of it because of the weak black levels
and because of the terrible input lag. ;p


BTW, you mentioned earlier that the Wii looked horrible on this set. I've got to disagree with you on that man. First of all, if you
have Wii games displayed in 16:9/widescreen then YUP it's gonna look bad. You're basically stretching a 640x480, which is the native
res of a wii game regardless if most of the games were designed with 16:9 in mind. which results in a softer, duller and fuzzier image. 4:3 looks crisp, clear and looks much better in motion.
Using component cables, sticking it in 4:3 by going into the console settings and doing the same on your TV, while using game mode while maxing the contrast, and amping up the sharpness produces one beautiful picture.

Super Mario Galaxy looks outstanding on my 60" Game mode is a must, cinema on the other hand looks terrible for gaming which is a big no no. XP
Anyways, have you messed around in the service menu? I've gotten into it, but i don't know how to properly navigate it. XP You'd think the
arrow keys would let you go up and down but that isn't the case on this set.
Edited by WaveBoy - 3/6/13 at 12:29pm
post #494 of 520
In a totally dark room I think cinema is plenty bright. With the lights on this becomes a different matter entirely.

The S is not a bright display and this combined with the complete lack of screen filter makes this a poor choice for daytime viewing. I like the display but unfortunately it's products like this that give plasma a bad name-- this set feels like a 'specialty' display to me. It simply doesn't have the versatility that my previous Panasonic plasma did... It's fairly dim, highly reflective, buzzes like a cheap piece of **** and suffers from the worst IR I've seen since the old Samsung sets. Basically, my using it as a dedicated movie/gaming set for dark room viewing (and I babysit the hell out of it for IR) works-- not sure I'd be very happy with this set if I needed it to play more roles.

Personally I think the gamma is fine in cinema. I back off the color temp a bit to warm 1 which I find a little more natural. I do use a tuned 'game' setting to watch sports and, well, play games as it makes the picture a little brighter and provides a false sense of contrast-- still the white crush and eff'd up gamma in all the other picture modes sends me right back to cinema for any serious viewing.

I disagree that wii looks anything but awful on this set but then wii probably looks awful on everything but small 720p displays so...
post #495 of 520
Final thoughts on the S30 before i get a Pro calibration using Custom & Game mode. XP


Cinema mode STINKS, with it's Super dim picture(Bluray is more forgiving, unlike DVD), nasty milky grey haze, desaturated dull colors, lack of crispness, it lacks pop, sculpt, it's a little flat and overall produces one lousy unimpressive picture at least in comparison to what i'm used to. Now, custom(HDMI set to 'GRAPHICS') is essentially cinema mode BUT with a brighter picture and no wierd awful milky haze, but because it's STILL cinema mode(sure seems like it) the colors are still desaturated, and it still doesn't have that crisp, the pop and defined picture of your normal typical Custom mode on a good SDTV or HDTV. To make things worse the gamma is on the high-ish Vs cinema mode by itself as well.Either way both modes look dull, desaturated and flat. This is more evident when gaming, both modes
don't look right period. Here are my current temporary settings until i get the calibration for custum/game.

~Custom Mode (HDMI set to GRAPHICS) for BLURAY content only. ( I watch DVD's & VHS on my retro 27" CRT Tube TV instead. wink.gif )

Contrast: 70
Brightness: 59
Color: 48
Tint: 0
Sharpness: 58

Warm 2 (or 1)
Color mgmt: OFF
Video Noise reduction: OFF
Blacks: Light
Size: 2

Now, I can't deal with either, so I'm looking into getting CUSTOM & GAME mode
Pro calibrated(I'd love to do this myself, if it's even possible...)which are the REAL deal, the reason why many people are turned off by them MAINLY(aside from a few
color inaccuracies, like the red push which is more pronounced in custum because custom actually has 'saturated' color.lol) is because of the HIGH/dark gamma, piercing bright whites and white crush which make
the picture appear harsh and unatural. It's like the equivelent of covering a yummy mouth watering lolipop with dog Sh**, ok maybe that's being a bit harsh haha. Here are the following problems with custom unless i've missed anything....

piercing Bright WHITES - (Need to be toned down)
White detail crushing - (Needs to be corrected)
HIGH gamma/dark image/black detail crush....Or is this just a brightness problem all together? - (Needs to be set to 'medium')
RED Push...aka sun burnt skin! - (RED Needs to be reduced!)
desaturated Blues - (Needs more saturation)
Pink/magneta push - (reduced or tweaked)


If these things were fixed the S30's picture quality in either custom or game mode would be amazing. As is, it's got deep black levels, good motion handeling, and it's main appeal(otherwise certain gamers wouldn't even be bothering such as myself in the first place and would
simply rather opt for a S60) is the 1 frame of lag via component cables and 2 frames of lag via HDMI. The low lag is what has me clinging to this set and it's the only real reason why this set along with the ST30 are still
somewhat popular...otherwise i'd look into getting a 55"- 60" S60! But for now I'm dieing to get those problems above fixed. I have no idea what i'm getting myself into, how complex
it can be or if it's even possible. Any Tips? A couple of users gave me a few links for a couple of color metres but i'm assuming they can't tweak gamma & whites.
Edited by WaveBoy - 5/24/13 at 11:18am
post #496 of 520
Quote:
Originally Posted by WaveBoy View Post

Final thoughts on the S30 before i get a Pro calibration using Custom & Game mode. XP


Cinema mode STINKS, with it's Super dim picture(Bluray is more forgiving, unlike DVD), nasty milky grey haze, desaturated dull colors, lack of crispness, it lacks pop, sculpt, it's a little flat and overall produces one lousy unimpressive picture at least in comparison to what i'm used to. Now, custom(HDMI set to 'GRAPHICS') is essentially cinema mode BUT with a brighter picture and no wierd awful milky haze, but because it's STILL cinema mode(sure seems like it) the colors are still desaturated, and it still doesn't have that crisp, the pop and defined picture of your normal typical Custom mode on a good SDTV or HDTV. To make things worse the gamma is on the high-ish Vs cinema mode by itself as well.Either way both modes look dull, desaturated and flat. This is more evident when gaming, both modes
don't look right period. Here are my current temporary settings until i get the calibration for custum/game.

~Custom Mode (HDMI set to GRAPHICS) for BLURAY content only.

Contrast: 70
Brightness: 59
Color: 48
Tint: 0
Sharpness: 58

Warm 2 (or 1)
Color mgmt: OFF
Video Noise reduction: OFF
Blacks: Light
Size: 2

Now, I can't deal with either, so I'm looking into getting CUSTOM & GAME mode
Pro calibrated(I'd love to do this myself, if it's even possible...)which are the REAL deal, the reason why many people are turned off by them MAINLY(aside from a few
color inaccuracies, like the red push which is more pronounced in custum because custom actually has 'saturated' color.lol) is because of the HIGH/dark gamma, piercing bright whites and white crush which make
the picture appear harsh and unatural. It's like the equivelent of covering a yummy mouth watering lolipop with dog Sh**, ok maybe that's being a bit harsh haha. Here are the following problems with custom unless i've missed anything....

piercing Bright WHITES - (Need to be toned down)
White detail crushing - (Needs to be corrected)
HIGH gamma/dark image/black detail crush....Or is this just a brightness problem all together? - (Needs to be set to 'medium')
RED Push...aka sun burnt skin! - (RED Needs to be reduced!)
desaturated Blues - (Needs more saturation)
Pink/magneta push - (reduced or tweaked)


If these things were fixed the S30's picture quality in either custom or game mode would be amazing. As is, it's got deep black levels, good motion handeling, and it's main appeal(otherwise certain gamers wouldn't even be bothering such as myself in the first place and would
simply rather opt for a S60) is the 1 frame of lag via component cables and 2 frames of lag via HDMI. The low lag is what has me clinging to this set and it's the only real reason why this set along with the ST30 are still
somewhat popular...otherwise i'd look into getting a 55"- 60" S60! But for now I'm dieing to get those problems above fixed. I have no idea what i'm getting myself into, how complex
it can be or if it's even possible. Any Tips? A couple of users gave me a few links for a couple of color metres but i'm assuming they can't tweak gamma & whites.

I you are serious about doing it yourself maybe calman tutorial and a C3 meter, not a whole lot you can do about gamma but white balance
can be adjusted in the service menu
http://store.spectracal.com/consumer/calman5-bundles/c3.html
post #497 of 520
Quote:
Originally Posted by chunon View Post

I you are serious about doing it yourself maybe calman tutorial and a C3 meter, not a whole lot you can do about gamma but white balance
can be adjusted in the service menu
http://store.spectracal.com/consumer/calman5-bundles/c3.html


Thanks! I'm definitly going to look ino getting this as soon as my next pay check arrives. $149 isn't too bad at all. smile.gif
So with this C3 Meter i can finally get rid of the red push, and get the blues looking more saturated without any wierd
sacrifice? Plus, by entering the service menu you're saying those harsh piercing whites can be toned down to look more natural
along with correcting the white crush?

The only thing left would be the gamma. Custom's definitly on the dark side, would love to get it at 2.2/medium somehow....
or to brighten the picture without having to sacrifice black levels.
post #498 of 520
Quote:
Originally Posted by WaveBoy View Post

Thanks! I'm definitly going to look ino getting this as soon as my next pay check arrives. $149 isn't too bad at all. smile.gif
So with this C3 Meter i can finally get rid of the red push, and get the blues looking more saturated without any wierd
sacrifice? Plus, by entering the service menu you're saying those harsh piercing whites can be toned down to look more natural
along with correcting the white crush?

The only thing left would be the gamma. Custom's definitly on the dark side, would love to get it at 2.2/medium somehow....
or to brighten the picture without having to sacrifice black levels.

When you say white crush do you mean white clipping ? that is a product of contrast, the service menu controls are limited basically two point white balance is what you are gaining. Hate to see you plunk down your hard earned dollars and not be able to correct problems you are seeing. The red push can definitely be corrected, blue problem maybe, There are always sacrifices in calibration. You might want to get some opinions over in the calibration forum those guys are more expert than me. You can definitely improve the picture just some the things you are seeing I am not 100% sure what you are referring to.
post #499 of 520
Quote:
Originally Posted by chunon View Post

When you say white crush do you mean white clipping ? that is a product of contrast, the service menu controls are limited basically two point white balance is what you are gaining. Hate to see you plunk down your hard earned dollars and not be able to correct problems you are seeing. The red push can definitely be corrected, blue problem maybe, There are always sacrifices in calibration. You might want to get some opinions over in the calibration forum those guys are more expert than me. You can definitely improve the picture just some the things you are seeing I am not 100% sure what you are referring to.


Yep, I'm talking about the white clipping. I can have the contrast set to '10' and there still seems to be the same amount of clipping Vs Cinema mode which has none. XP THe Whites are just so piercing bright in custom to the
point where you have to dial them down to 40-something to make them look somewhat natural but then the picture is too dim. XP Maybe toning down via calibration will also help with the clipping. But yeah, so there's absolutely no way to get the gamma set to medium in custom mode by calibration? It just baffles
me that panasonic would release a Plasma with so many problems. do they not realise that there's a nasty red push, effed up gamma(And there is no option to select low, medium or high....Unless you get the ST30)
and unatural overly bright piercing whites...

And thanks, i'll hit up the calibration forum and see what they have to say. B-) I can live with desaturated blues haha, but what's really bugging me is the gamma, red push and
crazy whites.
post #500 of 520
Quote:
Originally Posted by WaveBoy View Post

Yep, I'm talking about the white clipping. I can have the contrast set to '10' and there still seems to be the same amount of clipping Vs Cinema mode which has none. XP THe Whites are just so piercing bright in custom to the
point where you have to dial them down to 40-something to make them look somewhat natural but then the picture is too dim. XP Maybe toning down via calibration will also help with the clipping. But yeah, so there's absolutely no way to get the gamma set to medium in custom mode by calibration? It just baffles
me that panasonic would release a Plasma with so many problems. do they not realise that there's a nasty red push, effed up gamma(And there is no option to select low, medium or high....Unless you get the ST30)
and unatural overly bright piercing whites...

And thanks, i'll hit up the calibration forum and see what they have to say. B-) I can live with desaturated blues haha, but what's really bugging me is the gamma, red push and
crazy whites.

Where does it clip ? 240 lower ? I had the ST30 and the gamma was pretty good in custom but there were some gamma presets.
post #501 of 520
No gamma adjustment on the s30 in the picture menus. Cinema fixes the problem.

Bottom line: this is a budget set. It's never going to be fine wine-- more like fine wine cooler. smile.gif
post #502 of 520
Quote:
Originally Posted by chunon View Post

Where does it clip ? 240 lower ? I had the ST30 and the gamma was pretty good in custom but there were some gamma presets.

240 lower? I have no idea. XP I could of got a 50" ST30, but instead i passed on it because it has a louvre anti glare filtre
which apperantly has negative effects on PQ including brightness,color and clearness.


@Sage

So have you upgraded to either an ST50 or S60 yet? Your complaints are almost simular to mine, and the only reason like i mentioned previously as to why i'm clinging
to this flawed 'n funky set is because of the super low input lag, otherwise I'd sell my 60" for $700 and put it towards a 55"-60" S60. XP If i truly can't fix the gamma somehow i think i'm going to ditch this set,
it's causing me too many problems to the point where i'd much rather watch movies on my 27" CRT. XP
post #503 of 520
For the money the s30 was an awesome buy. This is my 'personal' display and as such I really needed something with solid picture and a low price tag. It sits in my office and is used to play games and watch the odd bluray when the woman is busy or entertaining company in the other side of the house. Speaking of the other side of the house-- this set actually looks better than the more expensive 'led' set we have mounted in the family room.

I've been keeping an eye out but I haven't thought seriously about upgrading. I too have heard Panasonic has sacrificed their class leading input lag in the move from in-house image processors to those supplied by mediatek. That's really a shame as gaming is a priority on this display and one of the reasons I stuck with plasma over LCD. I've heard excellent reviews for the new st60 and my dad's st50 certainly blows mine out of the water (heck, his previous st30 was a significant enough upgrade over my s30). Still, I won't have a use for one of those sets unless they can play games as well as my current display. I AM looking to put a theater in the basement but I've all but settled on projection there as I want a larger picture.
post #504 of 520
Quote:
Originally Posted by chunon View Post

Where does it clip ? 240 lower ? I had the ST30 and the gamma was pretty good in custom but there were some gamma presets.

So with Calman 5 'Control'($299), a SpectraCal C3 Meter($149) and a reference Pattern Disc I'll beable to do the following with my Panasonic S30 1080p Plasma in Custom & Game mode?

~Tone down the crazy bright whites (The S30 apperantly has a 2 point white system Vs the ST30's 10 point)
~Correct the white clipping
~Get the default/optionless High Gamma towards 'Medium'
~Correct the Red Push/Sun Burnt Skin
~Correct the Sevre Pink/Magneta Push
~And improving the Grey scale

If So, i'll be absolutely extatic! Now I love the S30's deep black levels, good motion handeling and blistering low input lag, but I refuse to actually sit down and watch a movie all the way through on my 60" with all of those nasty problems above as it makes for one harsh, unatural, distracting and unimerssive experience...Once somebody confirms that the following above can be corrected or definitly improved on i'm going to splurge and get the Calman 5 control, C3 meter and reference pattern Disc once my next pay check comes in.
Should be possible right?

i posted this in the Display Calibration forum, but still no response.
Edited by WaveBoy - 5/28/13 at 5:20pm
post #505 of 520
Lol! Just buy a better display!

Samsung is still producing plasmas with low lag (using the hdmi/pc label trick) and the new crop produce a beautiful picture.

I really think you're trying to make a housewife out of a hooker here-- pardon my expression. This set has limitations that complement it's position in the marketplace.
post #506 of 520
Quote:
Originally Posted by sage11x View Post

Lol! Just buy a better display!

Samsung is still producing plasmas with low lag (using the hdmi/pc label trick) and the new crop produce a beautiful picture.

I really think you're trying to make a housewife out of a hooker here-- pardon my expression. This set has limitations that complement it's position in the marketplace.

lol "I really think you're trying to make a houswife out of a hooker" That was brilliant haha

Well, the only other plasmas that i would even consider 'gaming wise' if i WERE to sell my S30 would either be last years Samsung 60" 1080p 3D E6500 or the Panasonic S60. Now, the 60"(51" has inferior black levels) E6500 has been getting rave reviews and according to HDTVTest.uk it's only pushing 1 frame/16ms of lag when doing that little HDMI 'PC labeling' trick. However, when doing so it locks out certain picture controls....That could be a deal breaker for me, otherwise this TV would be be absotootly' fantastic and far and away superior for movies even without calibration since it has Gamma presents, 10 point white balance(correct me if i'm wrong), accurate color(no crazy pink/magneta & red push like the S30), no crazy bright whites and a slew of other options including 3D that make it far more appealing than my HD hooker ala' S30. XP I'm curious if the E6500's black levels surpass the S30's....too bad it has an AR filter which effects picture quality.

And then there's the 60" Panasonic S60. CNET said that the input lag was much lower than the ST60's which is said to be 70ms....which is terrible. The S30 apperantly does 34-40ms....Still, i can't deal with anything over 2 frames. My previous Panny X5 from 2012 was pushing past 2 and the controls didn't feel on the dime, as if there was extra weight added on to them which crippled my gaming experiences. The S30 using component cables was a HUGE step up vs the X5, hell even using HDMI(which is laggier than using component on the S30) felt better. than what the laggy X5 dished out. I'm a retro gamer & Nintendork at heart and have been gaming since the 80's so having that near perfect intuitive response is extremely important to me. I don't think the S60 would satisfy me in that area, but i'd have to go hands on to get a better idea.

But yup, these are definitly the only two choices that i have, if i gave up on the S30. I could spend $630(total with shipping) and get the Calman 5 Enthuisiast & i1 display Pro(OEM) meter and get this dirty hooker looking more like a prestine Vegas escort, or i could sell my S30(Probably for about $650) to somebody in my family and put that towards a 60" S60 or E6500.
Edited by WaveBoy - 5/29/13 at 6:41pm
post #507 of 520
I wouldn't be concerned about the AR filter. Even the holy grail pioneer Kuros leaned heavily on their screen filters. When done right the coating shouldn't be doing anything but improving the picture by rejecting ambient light-- which can even be an issue in a darkened theater.
post #508 of 520
Quote:
Originally Posted by sage11x View Post

I wouldn't be concerned about the AR filter. Even the holy grail pioneer Kuros leaned heavily on their screen filters. When done right the coating shouldn't be doing anything but improving the picture by rejecting ambient light-- which can even be an issue in a darkened theater.

I've read complaints that these AR filters reduce clarity and depth and even slightly decrease color saturation and brightness.
post #509 of 520
Quote:
Originally Posted by WaveBoy View Post

I've read complaints that these AR filters reduce clarity and depth and even slightly decrease color saturation and brightness.

In the case of the ST50 that's just not the case. The louvre filter does limit some of the vertical viewing angle by darkening the picture when viewed from above but... Who cares? No one watches their tv standing up. Also, let's not forget that the s30 DOES have an AR filter it's just not the louvre filter...

I could almost buy the clarity argument except one of my complaints about the Panasonic and even our LED tv is that the reflectiveness of the screen is a distraction even when watching in a darkened room-- nothing rips you out of the cinematic experience faster than the dark scene of the movie when you briefly catch the reflection of your girl and you sitting on the couch.
In addition, my s30 soaks up every bit of light in the room. Even the dim glow of the power lights on my other equipment shows up. I'd rather have a more aggressive filter to retain the image quality of my set rather than wrestle with the effects of a not-completely-dark viewing environment.

In the end, my father's 60" st50 with it's louvre filter looks just as sharp as my 50" s30 in spite of (and maybe in credit to) it's more aggressive screen filter.
post #510 of 520
Waveboy, I'm curious as to your claim about the s30 display lag on the Xbox when using component vs hdmi. Did you actually test for this or did you read it somewhere? The reason I ask is that I've always been under the impression that hdmi straight to the display was the best connection to avoid display latency.

I have heard some claim that the packaging/unpacking of a signal carried via hdmi or DVI can take a few precious ms but that this was at least as fast as the digital/analog/digital path that a component connection would need. Please let me know what you found on your display.
Edited by sage11x - 5/31/13 at 5:47pm
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