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Official Panasonic 2011 TC-PxxVT30 Series Thread Discussion Thread [No Price Talk] - Page 8

post #211 of 6435
Quote:
Originally Posted by foxdie View Post

My 65VT30 is set for delivery for May 21, Must you use a Panasonic 3D Blu Ray player, or can you use different brands(i.e. Samsung 3d Blu ray with vt55 tv)?

No, they are universal. Any 3d blu ray player will work.
post #212 of 6435
You can pretty much use anyone's 3D player.
post #213 of 6435
Quote:
PS did you notice, that when you looking at the VT30 from a side, you can even see the picture any more... Most of LCDs have now better viewing angle that VT30 Series.

Well, which is it...can or can't?

You must not be looking at the VT30 because I can tell you that my TV is excellent in terms of viewing angles.
post #214 of 6435
Fluctuating brightness…update...

Last night, as we were watching TV from our breakfast table (about 15+ feet away) my wife got up to retrieve the remote off the couch. As she did, the TV picture dimmed and went back to normal as soon as she walked back. Since everyone saw this, I got up and did the same thing…and again, the TV picture dimmed. Standing to the side of the TV, I placed a sheet of paper in front of the power light, and the picture dimmed again. Bottom line, the “standard” picture mode adjusts picture brightness based on room lighting. THX mode does not seem to do this.
post #215 of 6435
Quote:
Originally Posted by spacecoast View Post

Fluctuating brightness…update...

Last night, as we were watching TV from our breakfast table (about 15+ feet away) my wife got up to retrieve the remote off the couch. As she did, the TV picture dimmed and went back to normal as soon as she walked back. Since everyone saw this, I got up and did the same thing…and again, the TV picture dimmed. Standing to the side of the TV, I placed a sheet of paper in front of the power light, and the picture dimmed again. Bottom line, the “standard” picture mode adjusts picture brightness based on room lighting. THX mode does not seem to do this.

What about custom mode? Does it do that? From last years VT25, I remember that the standard was useless. Also do you have all the junk/eco options off. I know THX mode by default disables all those.
post #216 of 6435
Quote:


What about custom mode? Does it do that?

I don't know. We usually watch THX (movies or prime time TV) or standard. I have slightly adjusted the standard settings and I find the picture to be fine. Not as good as THX, expecially if the picture dims due to low room light, but otherwise fine. I plan on using custom if I have the TV calibrated.

Quote:


do you have all the junk/eco options off

yes..
post #217 of 6435
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsinger View Post
Keep your receipts. According to a Panny employee who posts on the "other" site (HDJ), Panny will encourage dealers to make the offer retroactive if you come in and ask for it.
Agree ^^^ and FWIW, the BestBuy gentleman told me the same thing but make sure to go back to your original salesperson with the receipts. They will make it good.
post #218 of 6435
Quote:
Originally Posted by spacecoast View Post
Fluctuating brightnessupdate...

Last night, as we were watching TV from our breakfast table (about 15+ feet away) my wife got up to retrieve the remote off the couch. As she did, the TV picture dimmed and went back to normal as soon as she walked back. Since everyone saw this, I got up and did the same thingand again, the TV picture dimmed. Standing to the side of the TV, I placed a sheet of paper in front of the power light, and the picture dimmed again. Bottom line, the standard picture mode adjusts picture brightness based on room lighting. THX mode does not seem to do this.
Turn C.A.T.S. Off (under sharpness setting)
post #219 of 6435
No 50" VT30? That sux.
post #220 of 6435

Recently I had the opportunity to check out Panasonic's latest top of the line plasma, the 65" VT30, at Cleveland Plasma. The VT30 is a beautifully designed set, with a glass front covering the bezel and screen. Reflections are obvious and possibly distracting, though the screen does a very good job of remaining dark in moderate ambient light for a plasma. Sleek and super thin, the VT30 makes a positive impression right away.

The VT30 is the first plasma to feature- ahem- automatic calibration. I can hear the sales pitch now... "Yes, the VT30 actually will save you $400 bucks! Instead of hiring some high priced calibrator to tweak the picture, all you have to do is hook this baby to your laptop, and a few button clicks later you have a perfect picture!" All right, all right... It's not quite like that. Actually, the VT30's automatic calibration feature is really geared toward professional calibrators, intending to make their job more efficient and thorough. Working in conjunction with Spectracal's CalMAN Commercial (possible add ons for lower license levels are being reviewed by Spectracal) software and a meter, eventually the process will adjust the grayscale and gamma at 10 levels, among other things, and allow it all to be saved in a new ISF Day or Night picture preset that will be protected from accidental changes.

Before calibration:

After a few setup questions, the VT30 is ready to rock 'n roll in the Energy Star rated Standard picture mode. Well, maybe rock 'n roll isn't the best analogy for Standard mode. Mildly irritating elevator music may be more descriptive. Standard mode is quite grainy and uninvolving, and with a maximum light output of 4.7 fL, it's pretty hard to see objects like snow capped mountains, a hockey rink, a car's headlights, or a blazing sun in the picture.

Thankfully, once a better picture mode like Custom, THX, or Cinema is selected, the VT30's picture quality starts to show hints of it's stunning potential. Untouched Custom mode, with my familiar 1080P/24 Blu Ray demo material, had lots of pop and excitement. However, colors were over the top and too rich, and the picture was still quite grainy. People looked like they suffered chronic sunburn. I saw some odd motion/panning artifacts, and pans had that infamous Soap Opera smoothness. Overall, Custom mode offered a picture that initially was vivid and eye catching, but eventually became fatiguing and unnatural.

Though I did not view demo material in pre-calibrated Cinema or THX mode, the measurements suggest that either mode should provide a middle ground between the bland look of Standard and the over the top look of Custom. However, both Cinema and THX modes suffered from an emphasis of green in the white balance, which is subjectively the most unflattering direction in which to err. A simple change from Warm2 to Warm1 in the picture adjustments should alleviate that problem and provide a good overall image.

Calibration:

The review unit was a bit green, though Chris had it running the break in DVD for about 35 hours before I arrived. Having downloaded the latest version of CalMAN, I got the TV interfaced with my laptop and calibration gear to check out the automatic calibration feature. Unfortunately, at this stage of it's development, the feature proved to be useless for the most part. It did open up a new picture preset called ISF Day (Night would also be available), but unfortunately the 10 point white balance and grayscale adjustment was not available to select; only the 2 point white balance adjustment was available. Also, far too many necessary picture options and adjustments were grayed out, making even a 2 point calibration far from optimal. However, I did have it try the automatic calibration. What I ended up with was an ISF Day mode with a peak light output of only about 28 fL and a pretty good white balance, but poor performance in other aspects of the picture.

I did a lot of experimentation in Custom mode, since it has a fantastic variety of adjustments in the advanced user menu. Unfortunately, some of those controls just did not work. Most of the CMS adjustments were non functional, though I was able to adjust the luminance (out of luminance, hue, and saturation) of each color. Even with the luminance adjustment, however, things were not as they should be. Setting the color at one video level resulted in color compression at other levels. I tried to minimize the effect with different combinations of the master color control and the luminance adjustments, but could not entirely eliminate it. I also experimented with different panel brightness settings, which has had an impact on color linearity in past Panasonic models, with no success. I concluded that the color was going to be compromised in Custom mode, but I continued on in the hope that other aspects of performance might make up for it.
The gamma adjustment in Custom mode did have a 10 point detail adjustment. However, after a while of experimenting, I found I really was not making the improvements I had hoped for. It was like trying to climb up a slippery slope; I seemed to make a couple step of progress here and there, but soon found myself not far from where I started.
The VT30's ABL (auto brightness limiter) was fairly aggressive, allowing very small white objects to be bright enough, but severely limiting larger bright objects. All plasmas have this to a certain degree to limit power consumption and protect the panel, though less ABL interference results in a better image. I found a new adjustment for video type in the VT30's menu that did seem to make the ABL less obtrusive when set to photo or video (default was off), with no apparent disadvantage. It did increase blue in the white balance by a tiny bit, but not enough to be visible.

I found Cinema and THX modes to be the best starting points for calibration. Cinema mode had slightly better gamma, but it's light output was more limited than THX. For moderate ambient lighting conditions, THX seemed the best choice, though Cinema may be slightly better for a totally dark room. Because of it's slightly better versatility, I concentrated my efforts on THX mode.

As with some past Panasonic plasmas starting with the V10, supplying a 1080P/24 signal and engaging the 96 Hz mode resulted in subtle measured changes to the picture relative to 60 Hz mode. 96 Hz mode reduced light output very slightly, degraded the gamma a bit, and reduced blue in the white balance by a few percent. All of these changes were very subtle, and are not cause for too much concern. Also like the V10, engaging 96 Hz mode did have a positive impact on what might be thought to be an unrelated but important picture aspect: black level and contrast. While the VT30's black level was too low for my meter to read reliably even in 60 Hz mode, I could see a slight improvement or darkening of the black level when engaging 96 Hz. 96 Hz mode did introduce a tiny bit of flickering in some test patterns, but it was so slight and infrequent that it did not bother me at all with video.

I found that all of THX mode's user menu picture controls were pretty close to optimal, though I did raise contrast and lower sharpness both by a small amount. The biggest improvement in THX mode came from adjustment of the grayscale in the service menu.

Maximum light output after calibration in THX mode was about 38 fL with my usual small (10%) test windows. That is adequate for a light controlled room, but on the low side for most living rooms. With larger measurement windows, the white balance shifted slightly (reducing green along with other changes) and light output reduced to 35 fL with 18% medium windows and 32 fL with 25% large windows. With a 100% full field, maximum light output dropped to just over 12 fL.

After calibration:

After all the technical tests were complete, I put my familiar demo material in the Blu Ray player and sat back to enjoy the picture.

Pans and motion were surprisingly good, even with the VT30 in 60Hz mode. I was impressed with the lifelikeness of the image. However, colors lacked a tiny bit of richness; skin tones were natural but a bit too polite. There was a good but not quite excellent sense of depth, and shadow detail was strong and neutral toned. Try as I might, I saw no traces of DSE (dirty screen effect), contouring, or fluctuating black bars. There was very good pop in a dark room, though the picture was not terribly exciting with moderate lighting. Overall, I thought the image was very good, though a little lacking in "Wow!" factor. Looking back through my notes and calibration data, I believe the blame for the lack of excitement can be laid at the feet of the not fully developed calibration adjustments. With black level and contrast this good, the image should be oozing with pop and excitement. However, the lower than optimal gamma, slightly uneven color luminance with red being low, and tame light output seemed to combine to rob the image of some of it's edge. These are all things that could be eliminated if only the VT30's calibration flaws could be corrected. In fact, Custom mode appeared to bring a substantial boost in excitement and verve to the table at the expense of color and overall picture accuracy. If Custom mode's (or the auto-calibration ISF mode's) calibration flaws are corrected with a firmware update, we'll have a TV to really cheer about. As it is, I felt it was very good, but not living up to it's full potential.

Comparison with Samsung PN-64D8000:

I just happened to have a similar sized and freshly calibrated Samsung sitting right next to the VT30, so I couldn't resist a quick face-off. 1080P/24 HDMI from the Blu Ray player was sent to a high quality HDMI distribution amplifier, and both displays were calibrated to around 40 fL peak light output give or take a few percent. The room was totally dark except for at the very beginning. The Samsung was evaluated with Cinema Smooth turned off since it degrades the black level. Both 96 and 60 Hz modes were sampled on the VT30.

Lights on, power off:
The VT30 was a little more reflective. Both plasmas stayed fairly dark, retaining good contrast with moderate ambient light.

Lights off, test patterns:
The D8000 looked brighter and a purer white when displaying a full white field.
Looking at a moving white bar, I was able to see slight signs of the DSE on the D8000: the movement of the bar caused the screen to appear to have dirty fingerprints or smudges on it. The effect was only noticeable with this test pattern.
With a very dark PLUGE image, I could see the VT30's blacks were just barely darker to the eye in 60 Hz mode. It was such a slight difference, though, that I would definitely not be able to see it except in this instance where they were side by side in a pitch black room. However, the VT30's blacks became slightly darker with the 96 Hz mode engaged, and the difference became easier to identify.
A gray ramp looked a little off-white on the VT30 and purer on the D8000. The optimal brightness setting floated by about 1 click worth on the D8000 depending on the picture content, though neither the D8000 nor the VT30 were rock solid.

Lights off, video material:
I saw that shadow detail was exaggerated but neutral toned on the VT30. Dark suits and hair were not quite as dark as I was used to seeing them, which could be a good or bad thing depending on your room lighting. On reference grade material in a dark room, it looked a bit on the washed out side of neutral.
The D8000's presentation was a little more exciting and detailed.
Because Cinema Smooth was turned off, the D8000's pans were a little herky-jerky. The VT30's pans and motion looked good in both 60 Hz and 96 Hz modes, though 96 Hz mode is more correct for most Blu Ray material.
The D8000's flesh tones were nearly spot on at first (just a tiny bit too pink), and with a slight tweak of the red CMS adjustment I was able to get incredible flesh tones. On the other hand, the VT30's flesh tones were a little less rich and a little too bland, though they were unoffensive. If you routinely find yourself reducing color, the VT30 would be more to your liking.
I looked very closely at the letterbox bars on a 2.40:1 movie and couldn't see any floating blacks on the VT30. However, there was some subtle pumping going on above black; a slight dynamic action in the grayscale and gamma as APL changed. That's not too uncommon in plasmas, but some are more stable. The D8000 was similar.
With bright images the D8000 came away looking purer and more detailed. For instance, clouds just looked more true to life on the D8000, and some of the daylight scenes in The Dark Knight had more detail and verve.

Conclusion:

This is an excellent set, though it is hampered by non functional and not fully developed adjustments. For now, it produces a very good but somewhat unexciting image, though some firmware fixes could easily transform the VT30 into a jaw-dropping beauty.

Updates:

I've been told ControlCAL has a profile for the VT30 with a working 10 point grayscale adjustment. I will edit this post with updates when I get to test any new software or firmware.

Update 6-22-11

Calibrated a 55VT30 with the latest firmware. CalMAN's Panasonic auto calibrate function still needs work to be complete and functional. However, ControlCAL is 100% functional, so I used it. After much more time than normal getting used to and experimenting with the control interaction, ABL behavior, and panel brightness selections I finally got excellent results in ISF Day and Night mode. Measurements and material look excellent.
Calibrators take note: special care must be taken with color tuning and panel brightness med/high selections.

Update 7-01-11

After doing a couple more, I am more frustrated than ever with at least 3 things in the ISF modes (and Custom): improper interaction between the calibration adjustments, aggressive / unstable ABL, and color decoding issues.

There are ways to minimize the issues, but are they worth it?

The easiest and possibly best thing to do for many calibrators would be to calibrate THX mode for a day mode and Cinema for a night mode.

 

Panasonic 65VT30 THX mode.pdf 251.8779296875k . file

 

55vt30 isf day.pdf 264.794921875k . file

 

55vt30 isf night.pdf 264.7587890625k . file
post #221 of 6435
Throughout the calibration process I saved a few more measurements. These extra measurements are not necessarily indicative of the final results; they're for comparison purposes.
These show the difference between changing from 60 Hz to 96 Hz. Nothing else was changed.
LL
LL
post #222 of 6435
These show the difference between a 10% (small) measurement window, a 18% (medium) window, and a large (25%) window.
Again, these extra measurements are not necessarily indicative of the final results; they're for comparison purposes.
Ignore the contrast reading.
This is a little more change than I am comfortable with. I would like to see a little more consistency. And it's interesting to note, the small windows had more gamma compression at the top end than the larger ones, which is opposite of what I would expect.
LL
LL
LL
post #223 of 6435
More before calibration measurements.
LL
LL
LL
post #224 of 6435
Thanks Chad B. Can you answer me this one question?

If I were to say, hey Chad, which TV do you want in your living room for the next year?... 65VT30 or 64D8000, which would you take? It wouldn't cost you a penny, and it'd have to be your primary display for the next year.
post #225 of 6435
Quote:
Originally Posted by spacecoast View Post

Fluctuating brightnessupdate...

Last night, as we were watching TV from our breakfast table (about 15+ feet away) my wife got up to retrieve the remote off the couch. As she did, the TV picture dimmed and went back to normal as soon as she walked back. Since everyone saw this, I got up and did the same thingand again, the TV picture dimmed. Standing to the side of the TV, I placed a sheet of paper in front of the power light, and the picture dimmed again. Bottom line, the standard picture mode adjusts picture brightness based on room lighting. THX mode does not seem to do this.

I have a strong feeling a lot of people complaining about this fluctuating brightness issue is seeing exactly what you described... The TV must have a light sensor?
post #226 of 6435
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chad B View Post

Recently I had the opportunity to check out Panasonic's latest top of the line plasma, the 65" VT30, at Cleveland Plasma.

Chad, thanks for your review. I've included a link to it in the flat panel (Post#2) lists that are linked at the bottom of my post.
post #227 of 6435
Quote:
Originally Posted by moshock View Post

Thanks Chad B. Can you answer me this one question?

If I were to say, hey Chad, which TV do you want in your living room for the next year?... 65VT30 or 64D8000, which would you take? It wouldn't cost you a penny, and it'd have to be your primary display for the next year.

As of right now, I'd go with the D8000. If Panasonic fixes the calibration issues, then there's no doubt the VT30 would be my choice.

Calibration issues I am concerned about:
  • the ABL action, because with such weird variances between window sizes, how can even a seasoned pro hope to get consistently accurate results from a multipoint grayscale/gamma adjustment?
  • the color linearity
  • the missing or non functioning calibration adjustments
So, who do I talk to to get that complimentary D8000?
post #228 of 6435
So, you were not able to use the 10 point grayscale/gamma and 3D CMS in the user menu of the VT30??? I had no issues with these contols on the 3 VT30s I did a week ago (2D and 3D). From what I saw, Custom is the video mode to calibrate outside of ISF-Day and ISF-Night.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chad B View Post

As of right now, I'd go with the D8000. If Panasonic fixes the calibration issues, then there's no doubt the VT30 would be my choice.


Calibration issues I am concerned about:
  • the ABL action, because with such weird variances between window sizes, how can even a seasoned pro hope to get consistently accurate results from a multipoint grayscale/gamma adjustment?
  • the color linearity
  • the missing or non functioning calibration adjustments
So, who do I talk to to get that complimentary D8000?
post #229 of 6435
Thread Starter 
Keep in mind D-Nice calibrated the TC-P55VT30 if I am not mistaken and Chad B did the TC-P65VT30. Could be unit variation.
post #230 of 6435
Chad - Did you get the chance to compare 3d blu-ray material on both sets? I'm hearing that the panasonic is better and 3d is actually important to me.
post #231 of 6435
Chad, which one cause I cannot decide by myself.
For BD, 3D and HDTV 50hz (Europe).
Thanks in advance, regards.
post #232 of 6435
Hate to say it but it sounds to me that the Samsung would do better for me in the way of tradeoffs. But even that is one firmware update away from switching the preference to Panasonic.

Sure hope someone remembers to tell us if that happens.
post #233 of 6435
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post

Hate to say it but it sounds to me that the Samsung would do better for me in the way of tradeoffs. But even that is one firmware update away from switching the preference to Panasonic.

Sure hope someone remembers to tell us if that happens.

That firmware is coming I guess. The thing to think of though is will the firmware update overcome all of the issues surrounding this set. There seem to be an increasing abundance of issues with the VT30's compared to last years VT25's. Dont get me wrong here I'm sure they are both great tv's for people who are not that picky, but for those who are it seems like a lot to overcome. Really hearing about a lot of flicker issues too, can a firmware take care of that or the graininess complaints that are coming in? Also really unless you have full intentions of getting a professional calibration and Panasonic addresses calibration issues allowing calibrators to do their job, it seems as if this is a year to steer clear of the VT30.
I've got a buddy of mine who's torn between a D8000 and the VT30's and it's been very tough for him to compare with my D8000 in my living room to a 55VT30 in torch mode at future shop. I'm trying to help him choose with an unbiased approach and I'm not sure he plans on a professional calibration so it's a pretty tough choice. Any suggestions, he also has the option of a last years VT25 for a decent price.
post #234 of 6435
Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

So, you were not able to use the 10 point grayscale/gamma and 3D CMS in the user menu of the VT30??? I had no issues with these contols on the 3 VT30s I did a week ago (2D and 3D). From what I saw, Custom is the video mode to calibrate outside of ISF-Day and ISF-Night.

With the CMS, the only control that had any function at all was each color's Luminance control. The others, I sat there with continuous readings and staring at the pattern watching for changes and measured and saw no change with full swings of the controls.
The 10 pt grayscale did have an effect. The 10 pt gamma also had an effect. I started working with the 10 pt gamma, but like I said in the review, it was like climbing a slippery slope. At one point I thought I was making a decent improvement. Then went back and re measured, and things really weren't much different. Why? I think there's something slightly dynamic in the gamma and grayscale. I had turned off the obvious problem controls like AGC, etc.
I really didn't like the amount of change or characteristic of change in the window sizes. The fact that there is less gamma compression at the high end with larger windows goes against conventional wisdom. Plus, the larger window sizes measured a negative green compared to the small window, yet, after calibrating the grayscale, putting a split 16 step gray ramp up, the ramp looked dingy and off white, suggesting a substantial lack of blue. My pattern gen takes a couple seconds to draw it's patterns, which is sometimes a pain and sometimes revealing. This time, while drawing the GS ramp, I saw the white balance change in one of the lower segments.
In my opinion, that's too many contradictions and weird behavior to get a consistently accurate result from a fine 10 point grayscale and gamma adjustment in the real world. In other words, with that kind of action, even if I could get a perfect result with the 10 pt windows, the gamma and grayscale is going to be all messed up if I just switch to a more typical medium window size. There would be substantial changes depending on which test disc or pattern source is used for measurements.
Now, I expect some slight changes with window size, but the changes here were more erratic and illogical. With a 9G Elite Kuro, there wasn't erratic grayscale changes with window size. There may have been a slight predictable shift, I can't remember for sure. But as I increased window size on a Kuro, the main difference would be that the larger sizes would just compress gamma more at the high end.
In retrospect, APL windows may have helped.
post #235 of 6435
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post

Keep in mind D-Nice calibrated the TC-P55VT30 if I am not mistaken and Chad B did the TC-P65VT30. Could be unit variation.

Inoperative user controls is not unit variation. That would be classified as a defect. All controls in Custom should be fully functional regardless of size.
post #236 of 6435
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scottyb09 View Post

Chad - Did you get the chance to compare 3d blu-ray material on both sets? I'm hearing that the panasonic is better and 3d is actually important to me.

I'm sorry, I did not get a chance to evaluate the 3D this time. It turned out to be an 18+ hour workday and I was just exhausted.
post #237 of 6435
I agree with your findings. Calibrating these displays is a real bitch and the results are highly dependent on the windowed pattern size. The best results I've found are with the Accupel 4000's windowed patterns with verification and tweaks per AVS709's large APL windowed patterns.

Did you see how the measurements could be completely different between 20 and 40% stimuli? I found that if you measured and adjusted.... say 30% stimuli, moved on the 40% and rechecked 30% right after 40%, the measurement would be completely different. However, if you switched to 0% stimuli and measured to 30% again, the measurement would read like the original 30% measurement. Very weird and erratic.

I still don't understand why Custom's control set did not work for you. You may have calibrated a dud.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chad B View Post

With the CMS, the only control that had any function at all was each color's Luminance control. The others, I sat there with continuous readings and staring at the pattern watching for changes and measured and saw no change with full swings of the controls.
The 10 pt grayscale did have an effect. The 10 pt gamma also had an effect. I started working with the 10 pt gamma, but like I said in the review, it was like climbing a slippery slope. At one point I thought I was making a decent improvement. Then went back and re measured, and things really weren't much different. Why? I think there's something slightly dynamic in the gamma and grayscale. I had turned off the obvious problem controls like AGC, etc.
I really didn't like the amount of change or characteristic of change in the window sizes. The fact that there is less gamma compression at the high end with larger windows goes against conventional wisdom. Plus, the larger window sizes measured a negative green compared to the small window, yet, after calibrating the grayscale, putting a split 16 step gray ramp up, the ramp looked dingy and off white, suggesting a substantial lack of blue. My pattern gen takes a couple seconds to draw it's patterns, which is sometimes a pain and sometimes revealing. This time, while drawing the GS ramp, I saw the white balance change in one of the lower segments.
In my opinion, that's too many contradictions and weird behavior to get a consistently accurate result from a fine 10 point grayscale and gamma adjustment in the real world. In other words, with that kind of action, even if I could get a perfect result with the 10 pt windows, the gamma and grayscale is going to be all messed up if I just switch to a more typical medium window size. There would be substantial changes depending on which test disc or pattern source is used for measurements.
Now, I expect some slight changes with window size, but the changes here were more erratic and illogical. With a 9G Elite Kuro, there wasn't erratic grayscale changes with window size. There may have been a slight predictable shift, I can't remember for sure. But as I increased window size on a Kuro, the main difference would be that the larger sizes would just compress gamma more at the high end.
In retrospect, APL windows may have helped.
post #238 of 6435
Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

I agree with your findings. Calibrating these displays is a real bitch and the results are highly dependent on the windowed pattern size. The best results I've found are with the Accupel 4000's windowed patterns with verification and tweaks per AVS709's large APL windowed patterns.

Did you see how the measurements could be completely different between 20 and 40% stimuli? I found that if you measured and adjusted.... say 30% stimuli, moved on the 40% and rechecked 30% right after 40%, the measurement would be completely different. However, if you switched to 0% stimuli and measured to 30% again, the measurement would read like the original 30% measurement. Very weird and erratic.

I still don't understand why Custom's control set did not work for you. You may have calibrated a dud.

I don't remember seeing that specific interaction between 20 and 40%, but it doesn't surprise me at all from everything else I saw.
Thanks for your input re window size and the AVS APL patterns!
post #239 of 6435
I can't help but feel like Panasonic has gone out of it's way this year to screw up it's plasma lineup.


ST30 only has accurate gamma in Cinema setting, and the gamma cannot be corrected for the other inputs. Unfortunately cinema setting is not very bright at all.

GT30 has floating blacks with no way of fixing them. Also has gamma issues.

VT30 makes calibration overly difficult, and may also have floating blacks.


To top it all off they chose to limit the sizes drastically, thus forcing anyone who wants a set smaller than 50 inches to buy the ST30. So if you do not want a TV larger than 46 inches, they're forcing you to buy their cheapest 3D TV. Not exactly the smartest idea I've ever seen.
post #240 of 6435
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigerriot View Post

I can't help but feel like Panasonic has gone out of it's way this year to screw up it's plasma lineup.

ST30 only has accurate gamma in Cinema setting, and the gamma cannot be corrected for the other inputs. Unfortunately cinema setting is not very bright at all.

GT30 has floating blacks with no way of fixing them. Also has gamma issues.

VT30 makes calibration overly difficult, and may also have floating blacks.

But they don't have Floating Blacks this year. They do have Fluctuating Brightness this year to varying extents which seems to be the exact opposite of Floating Blacks (which presumably would be similarly irritating).


Quote:


To top it all off they chose to limit the sizes drastically, thus forcing anyone who wants a set smaller than 50 inches to buy the ST30. So if you do not want a TV larger than 46 inches, they're forcing you to buy their cheapest 3D TV. Not exactly the smartest idea I've ever seen.

But their cheapest 3D TV is still a great TV. I don't consider a sub-50" TV to be a candidate for folks wanting to do critical viewing regardless of brand or model. 46" and smaller would seem to be more suitable for casual TV watching. I've always preferred smaller screen sizes (42" and 46") but my next TV will be a 50 incher (maybe in a year or two). They've done their marketing research before making this decision, and based on the large number of unsold surplus 50" VT20s and VT25s still being sold 5+ months after they've ended production, which also happened with last year's 50" V10 and the 50" PZ800U the year before that, there is apparently not enough demand for a 50" flagship model, much less one that's even smaller.
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AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Plasma Flat Panel Displays › Official Panasonic 2011 TC-PxxVT30 Series Thread Discussion Thread [No Price Talk]