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Official Samsung LNxxD630 Owner's Thread - Page 12

post #331 of 606
Quote:
Originally Posted by wfwalsh View Post

Someone needs to get out more.

2 April 2008

From Allen Daviau, ASC [ http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0005679/ ]

"Today's cinematographers go to great lengths to insure that all of the richness, range, and detail of their original images reach the home screens of the viewers. Throughout the photo-chemical laboratory processes and the full range of digital manipulations, the cinematographer who cares wants to ensure that every step taken is in the best interest of the look of that motion picture.

This has been the case for some time, but with the real arrival of a High Definition television system and the subsequent enlargement of the home image size, the responsibility has a greater intensity. We, and all of the technicians who work with us, want you to feel all of the power of those images that so many people, in front of and behind the camera, fought to achieve.

I think that you would be very pleased with the intensity and precision of our efforts. In return, we make an important request of you. Please be very sure that your home viewing screen is capable of displaying all of the quality that has gone into the motion picture that you are viewing. You may own a very high quality system, but if it has not been properly calibrated, you would be shocked at how much you are missing.

Starting with the quality of your incoming signal, be it from an antenna, cable, satellite dish, or disc, it should be capable of delivering everything in the original master. The adjustment of your display device should be done to insure that it is accurate in terms of contrast, brightness, color temperature, and color intensity.

Unfortunately, the manner in which displays are adjusted at the factory is to ensure that it gets attention in a store, surrounded by many other screens. It has not been adjusted to display the qualities that the filmmakers considered important. If you have these adjustments made properly, your enjoyment of those images will greatly increase. You will be seeing what we intended you to see, and all of us, the creators and the audience, will be very much happier.

It is well worth your time to be certain of your investment."
: http://www.jkpi.net/allen_daviau.php

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.
A Lion AV Consultants affiliate

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"
post #332 of 606
Quote:
Originally Posted by paulman182 View Post

I suppose the notion arises from the fact that I OWN the home cinema and have either PURCHASED or RENTED the movie and should be able to view it as I wish, in the same way that I am free to use my crayons on an Ansel Adams print that I OWN if I so desire.

My own preference is to view a properly-calibrated image but that is MY preference on MY equipment. I'm sorry, but elitism rubs some of us the wrong way.

+1

Apparently some posters of "AV Science" do not understand making a post with appropriate tact, courtesy, and cordiality would go a long way in acceptance of any technical points they may want to communicate.

Comments or communicated information made in a condescending and demeaning way negate any value they may have.

To be sure, there are valid points on both sides of this.
post #333 of 606
Well, sorry to derail the philosophical debate, but here's the update on my setup. I am now under the impression I'll have to pay a DirecTV tech to figure it all out because no combination of RCAs here or there seems to get me the desired result.

I have stripped it all down to the bare bones: an HDMI connected from the XBox Kinnect and the VHS/DVD Recoder, as well as one to the TV of course. The soundbar has two connections, a single direct audio and a Red/White, the latter now unconnected to any jack at all because it doesn't seem to make a difference. No matter what combination of wires I run where, I can switch to any unit, but the sound is delivered from the channel the DirecTV is on. I can 'see' everything, just can't hear it. So I'm resigned to believe I have reached my level of incompetence.
post #334 of 606
Quote:
Originally Posted by endgame011 View Post

Well, sorry to derail the philosophical debate, but here's the update on my setup. I am now under the impression I'll have to pay a DirecTV tech to figure it all out because no combination of RCAs here or there seems to get me the desired result.

Question. If you take the sound bar out of the equation and use the speakers on your tv do you hear sound from the other devices?
post #335 of 606
Good question, rta. I'll check it out this evening. Thanks for the patience. Does this board support screenshots? I may resort to a little visual aid if I keep my determination. Thanks, again.
post #336 of 606
Quote:
Originally Posted by pbarach View Post

Why not calibrate the monitor with the lighting set up as it typically is for viewing?

I did and that is why the brightness in my calibration settings is pretty low. Those settings are perfect in a low light or dark viewing environment. When people buy their TVs they rarely get a chance to view them in a dark environment in the store, and that is part of the reason that manufacturers don't calibrate the TVs for optimum viewing at home. They are set to look good in the store.

That brings up a good point as to the difference of what looks good and what is properly calibrated... If you were to go into Best Buy and try to select lets say the TV that is closest to optimum calibration (without viewing the settings) you would have a tough time. What looks good in the store (at least according to your eye) next to all of the other sets may either be way off of proper calibration, or will look completely different at home in the proper lighting conditions. In other words what "looks good" can change dramatically depending on exterior variables and your point of view.
post #337 of 606
So, considering the fact that a professional calibration might cost nearly half the price of a lower mid-range panel (such as the ln40d630, which I love btw), would it really be logical to pay for such a thing? I'm a trained photgrapher and have a discerning eye in general, it just seems like its a bit of an overkill for such a modest set.

Thoughts on this?
post #338 of 606
Quote:
Originally Posted by PisporSchitritch View Post

So, considering the fact that a professional calibration might cost nearly half the price of a lower mid-range panel (such as the ln40d630, which I love btw), would it really be logical to pay for such a thing? I'm a trained photgrapher and have a discerning eye in general, it just seems like its a bit of an overkill for such a modest set.

Thoughts on this?

If you don't want a professional calibration (and I didn't get one, either), at the very least you should get yourself a calibration disc, follow the instructions, and then tweak it if you aren't happy. Being a trained photographer may help you with knowing what might be a little off, but the training probably isn't enough to know what you should adjust. BTW, if you buy the Spears & Munsil BluRay calibration disc, go to their website and use the directions there (under "articles"). Unfortunately, they are printed in Halloween colors (orange text, black background)!
post #339 of 606
Quote:
Originally Posted by PisporSchitritch View Post

So, considering the fact that a professional calibration might cost nearly half the price of a lower mid-range panel (such as the ln40d630, which I love btw), would it really be logical to pay for such a thing? I'm a trained photgrapher and have a discerning eye in general, it just seems like its a bit of an overkill for such a modest set.

Thoughts on this?

What you paid for the display has no logical connection to whether or not you want it to operate correctly. I remember the first 42" Sony plasmas were selling for $8k, they looked like crap compared to today's plasmas, and they had poor calibration facilities. Would those panels be more worthy of a pro calibration than a similar plasma bought today, just because it sold for a higher price? Just think how much easier it is afford a pro calibration today, since you can get a 42" plasma for over $7k less than just a few years ago! What if someone gave you the TV, and you had nothing invested in it?
post #340 of 606
Quote:
Originally Posted by pbarach View Post

BTW, if you buy the Spears & Munsil BluRay calibration disc, go to their website and use the directions there (under "articles"). Unfortunately, they are printed in Halloween colors (orange text, black background)!

That just struck me as hilariously ironic.
post #341 of 606
Quote:
Originally Posted by rta53 View Post


That just struck me as hilariously ironic.

Me too, so I cut and pasted them into a Word doc and reformatted.
post #342 of 606
Quote:
Originally Posted by PisporSchitritch View Post

So, considering the fact that a professional calibration might cost nearly half the price of a lower mid-range panel (such as the ln40d630, which I love btw), would it really be logical to pay for such a thing? I'm a trained photgrapher and have a discerning eye in general, it just seems like its a bit of an overkill for such a modest set.

Thoughts on this?

The real question is how close can you get the picture quality to a calibrated picture using something like the S&M disc on your particular TV? Much of that also depends on how comfortable you are with learning what to look for when making your settings and how adept you can become with your TV's controls. If you read some Sound & Vision magazines from just a few years ago (2006 - 2007), a calibrated picture had magnitudes of error in white balance/gray scale and color compared to TVs today with some modest adjusts using S&M, AVS HD709, or some other discs. Getting a calibration is still subject to the equipment being used and the person doing it. If you want to feel you have true "image fidelity" a paid calibration may be for you. If getting the picture quality as good as you can by using a disc and then following up with a good reference movie or two; that may be all you need.

It's a matter of having a decent and acceptable picture verses "knowing" your picture is as accurate as can be. Close to perfection verses good and acceptable. But as we all know, nothing is perfect.
post #343 of 606
Quote:
Originally Posted by pbarach View Post

...follow the instructions, and then tweak it if you aren't happy. Being a trained photographer may help you with knowing what might be a little off, but the training probably isn't enough to know what you should adjust.

Yes but according to GeorgeAB tweaking your setup (from optimum calibration) is a big no no. I still believe people should calibrate their monitor to their liking and viewing environment. I think everyone perceives or interprets color a little differently, although there is really no way to know for sure. Some people report perceiving colors differently in each eye because of slight physiological differences. So I submit that although a director or producer may view a color or certain lighting one way, there is always someone who will view it differently. If this is the case there is now way to be sure that you are truly viewing the material the way it was intended. It is always better to go with what pleases you, because that is the reason that you bought the TV in the first place. I agree with you pbarach, set it up the way you like it.
post #344 of 606
Quote:
Originally Posted by Balazo View Post

Yes but according to GeorgeAB tweaking your setup (from optimum calibration) is a big no no. I still believe people should calibrate their monitor to their liking and viewing environment. I think everyone perceives or interprets color a little differently, although there is really no way to know for sure. Some people report perceiving colors differently in each eye because of slight physiological differences. So I submit that although a director or producer may view a color or certain lighting one way, there is always someone who will view it differently. If this is the case there is now way to be sure that you are truly viewing the material the way it was intended. It is always better to go with what pleases you, because that is the reason that you bought the TV in the first place. I agree with you pbarach, set it up the way you like it.

Baloney! I never said anything of the sort. How you adjust your TV is according to your chosen criteria. If it is to achieve image fidelity, it must be according to the same standards and practices used to align professional monitors. If it is to appeal to your own unique preferences, there are no standards but your own invented ones. Good luck with that.
post #345 of 606
Quote:
Originally Posted by endgame011 View Post

Good question, rta. I'll check it out this evening. Thanks for the patience. Does this board support screenshots? I may resort to a little visual aid if I keep my determination. Thanks, again.

You can post pictures, is that what you mean? I still haven't connected my sound bar yet so I can see if mine will behave as yours. I tend to be a little slow getting things done sometimes.
post #346 of 606
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeAB View Post

Baloney! I never said anything of the sort. How you adjust your TV is according to your chosen criteria. If it is to achieve image fidelity, it must be according to the same standards and practices used to align professional monitors. If it is to appeal to your own unique preferences, there are no standards but your own invented ones. Good luck with that.

Any thoughts on the Auto Motion Plus feature on this set that adds an extra frame to the source? It gives movies a "soap opera" likeness and almost makes the material too life like. Wouldn't that effect alter the content more than adjusting the calibration a bit?

I am only stating that everyone is a little different and may view adjustments a little different depending on their viewing environment or their perspective. I don't think there is any question that most people are trying to make their content as life like as possible, that is why they purchased a high def television in the first place.

Look at the new Lord of the Rings extended Blu Ray release, many people (not everyone, including myself) stated that the colors were altered in the editing process. They claimed that the whites appeared green and blamed Peter Jackson for the error. Maybe there was a tainted batch of Blu Rays, or maybe some people hadn't calibrated their sets correctly. But there is no doubt that people didn't like the colors being off, and many noticed the difference. Whether it was the studio's fault, the fault of the viewer's equipment, or just a difference in perspective there is no question that everyone is striving for realness and accuracy in their digital content.
post #347 of 606
Quote:
Originally Posted by rta53 View Post

You can post pictures, is that what you mean? I still haven't connected my sound bar yet so I can see if mine will behave as yours. I tend to be a little slow getting things done sometimes.

Well, thanks for your input. One step toward completion. You were right on the money with regard to hooking the soundbar up to the TV rather than the DirecTV box. Problem was, I hadn't noticed- or simply forgot -that there are actually two connections coming out of the soundbar: a split red/white audio AND a single digital audio jack, the latter which, when removed and attached to the TV allowed all units' sounds to operate appropriately.

Now, on to ensuring the Combo can record. May have to add the RCAs to it, but this step was major and can't believe I overlooked such a simple element. Thanks again.
post #348 of 606
Quote:
Originally Posted by endgame011 View Post

Well, thanks for your input. One step toward completion. You were right on the money with regard to hooking the soundbar up to the TV rather than the DirecTV box. Problem was, I hadn't noticed- or simply forgot -that there are actually two connections coming out of the soundbar: a split red/white audio AND a single digital audio jack, the latter which, when removed and attached to the TV allowed all units' sounds to operate appropriately.

Now, on to ensuring the Combo can record. May have to add the RCAs to it, but this step was major and can't believe I overlooked such a simple element. Thanks again.

Great news! One of the things you will run into when connecting your DTV box to the DVD recorder is a message on your screen when you try and view HD content through an SD connection. This is due to the new GUI being HD only. There are solutions for this. You can use a component to composite converter box. I need to get one of these myself. I can give you more info later.
post #349 of 606
Quote:
Originally Posted by rta53 View Post

Great news! One of the things you will run into when connecting your DTV box to the DVD recorder is a message on your screen when you try and view HD content through an SD connection. This is due to the new GUI being HD only. There are solutions for this. You can use a component to composite converter box. I need to get one of these myself. I can give you more info later.

Interestingly, I have the Combo (inc. a tuner) HDMI'd directly to the the TV and it does pick up the channel being viewed on DirecTV. I do notice that the resolution is not nearly as fine, as in HD, but close. So currently, I don't have it run through the box at all, but may have to if I find it doesn't record as expected and utilize the RCAs or the components as you've suggested.
post #350 of 606
Any solutions for the very noticeable audio/video sync issues with the LN40D630? Seems like a pretty ridiculous issue for a TV to have.
post #351 of 606
Quote:
Originally Posted by cxg331 View Post

Any solutions for the very noticeable audio/video sync issues with the LN40D630? Seems like a pretty ridiculous issue for a TV to have.

Do you have an AVR with an adjustable audio delay?
post #352 of 606
I've got the same problem with my PS3 when watching blurays. My receiver is getting old (near top of the line Sony in 1999) and doesn't have the time delay setting. My DVD player does so I've been able to sync the picture and sound. As far as my PS3 goes I have found out that if I turn off all the picture enhancement stuff (AMP, Edge, etc.) that the sound is closer to the picture. Not perfect but more watchable than before. I have no problem with cable though, sound matches fine.
post #353 of 606
Quote:
Originally Posted by pbarach View Post

Do you have an AVR with an adjustable audio delay?

Not yet, although I plan on getting a Denon 1712 in a few weeks. I've got both the Motorola FiOS DVR and Samsung BD-5700 BD Player hooked up to the TV via HDMI, and both hooked up to the older Sony receiver via optical outputs. TV isn't too bad, although 2 channel stereo sound (particularly from SD channels) is noticeable. Same effect happens with the BD Player. 5.1 movies aren't terrible, although there is a noticeable effect. Stereo sound discs (like old TV shows) are very noticeable.

Does the SPDIF function on the TV have any effect?

I've also seen, on the HomeTheaterForum, a workaround for older Samsungs in which you go into the service menu and turn off the audio delay.

This all just seems like a silly problem for a modern TV to have. I'm wondering if the issue will persist when I get my new receiver and run HDMIs directly into that, with one output to the TV.
post #354 of 606
Quote:
Originally Posted by endgame011 View Post


Interestingly, I have the Combo (inc. a tuner) HDMI'd directly to the the TV and it does pick up the channel being viewed on DirecTV. I do notice that the resolution is not nearly as fine, as in HD, but close. So currently, I don't have it run through the box at all, but may have to if I find it doesn't record as expected and utilize the RCAs or the components as you've suggested.

Well I finally connected my Sony sound bar to my Samsung and it ended up being relatively simple. All I did was connect the sound bar to the sub woofer and I connected the sub woofer to the TV audio out using the supplied digital optical cable. I didn't use any HDMI connections to the sub woofer. I may do that in the future but the optical cable is all that's needed for now.
post #355 of 606
I just bought the 46" version of this TV, and I have a problem.

The first thing I did once I set it up was put in Avatar on Blu-ray. In the scene where they are all flying on their Ikrans, the video jerks very noticeably at random times. It seems to happen with motion on screen but there is no pattern that I could see, it just does it randomly. It's a bit hard to describe properly but during motion the video jerks very suddenly and sometimes violently as if it was dropping frames/the frame rate is going down. I used the settings that CNET suggested to get the 24p effect (Blur reduction at 10 and Judder reduction at 0) but I set it to that before playing the movie.

I've never seen this before on any TV so I am completely lost as to what is causing this.
post #356 of 606
I had this happen with a 24 fps source until I set the AutoMotion to Clear or off. That was the end of the problem.
post #357 of 606
I have the same problem with frame skipping on regular 1080i TV when the AMP is set to the recommended settings of jutter reduction - 0 and blur reduction - 10. SoI just have it off and don't have a problem. I don't notice the benefits of AMP anyway.
post #358 of 606
Quote:
Originally Posted by rta53 View Post

Well I finally connected my Sony sound bar to my Samsung and it ended up being relatively simple. All I did was connect the sound bar to the sub woofer and I connected the sub woofer to the TV audio out using the supplied digital optical cable. I didn't use any HDMI connections to the sub woofer. I may do that in the future but the optical cable is all that's needed for now.

Good to hear. I have the Samsung Crystal Air with wireless subwoofer, so an additional connection wasn't required. So far, so good. Still need to take the time now to test the recording capability of the Combo hookup, but I'm going to remain cautiously optimistic. Thanks again for all of your help and input.
post #359 of 606
Hey guys I bought this tv open box about 2 months ago. It was working great untill yesterday all the tv channels went grainy. I thought it was the cable so I hooked the same cable to another tv and all the channels are working fine on that tv. I tried scanning the channels again on the samsung and it doesnt pick up any channels. I am running actual Rogers cable to the back of the tv so its not Over the air signal. All the other inputs are working fine. do you guys have any ideas what could be wrong with it?
post #360 of 606
Quote:
Originally Posted by pbarach View Post

I had this happen with a 24 fps source until I set the AutoMotion to Clear or off. That was the end of the problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wfwalsh View Post

I have the same problem with frame skipping on regular 1080i TV when the AMP is set to the recommended settings of jutter reduction - 0 and blur reduction - 10. SoI just have it off and don't have a problem. I don't notice the benefits of AMP anyway.

Interesting, well it's good to hear I wasn't just seeing things. I turned the AMP off and it went away as well, but if I turn AMP off (instead of Custom with Blur reduction - 10 and Judder reduction - 0) then I'm not getting the benefits of 24p playback as far as I know. The only other mention of 24p on this TV I have seen was in a review on televisoninfo, which states:

Quote:


There are two auto modes for detecting and adjusting for 24fps content. We tested both with dense patterns and a pan of stadium seats using a 24fps signal. We found that Auto 2 was not really an improvement over no adjustment at all. Auto 1, on the other hand, significantly reduced flicker endemic to mismatched frame rates. Auto 1 seems to translate 24fps content into a very watchable, flicker and judder free 30fps. This frame rate factor that works well with the LN40D630, which has a native 60Hz refresh rate.

I had never heard of this website until I started looking for reviews of TVs a while back, but it seems to be all right.

One of the reasons I bought this TV was its ability to properly handle 24p content but turning the AMP to Off (instead of Custom with Blur reduction - 10 and Judder reduction - 0) defeats the purpose from what I know.
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