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Marantz projector problems and US purchase? - Page 5  

post #121 of 163
Originally posted by John Moschella
I agree that it could be some kind of power supply issue. The thing that I'm not clear about is if its the blub that causes the change in brighness or something in the DMD panels.

John Moschella
Thats a good point, and I think best case scenarios, its just the bulb, but because of a few other anamolies, Im not sure. Of course, I do no hear the fan fluctuating ever, so in that regard the power is stable there.

Could be a simple capacitor for all we know..

Its Monday, so hopefully the gentlemen were able to go to Dans House yesterday, and wlak away with some ideas.

Dan? Bat Signal is up (hehe)

post #122 of 163
I have an American model that has the flicker as well. It has had it since day one, but seems to be getting worse. I am afraid of looking at the bulb for what I may discover. I plan on ignoring it (as best I can) until one of two things happens. 1st, Marantz comes up with a fix, or 2, my bulb burns out. Other than this quibble with the projector, I absolutely love it!
post #123 of 163
I power my VP-12S1 PJ with a Monster HTS2000. Also tried powering it with an Ultimate Outlet and Power Director from PS Audio, did not resolve flickering problem. Finally, one last attempt using an APC Smart UPS, and it as well did not cure the flickering.

All of this testing was done on a dedicated 20A circuit with isolated ground, ferrite chokes, and audio grade connectors.

Must be internal to the PJ.

*edit* I can hear the fan fluctuate, but only while changing or 'losing' source feed. If I switch from Y/C to say RGB or video input, the fan speed sort of "revs" a bit, particularly if the PJ is receiving an intermittent signal (feeding it HD-RGB from my STB while aiming the rooftop antenna).
post #124 of 163
Jetlag, I think that revving you hear is the color wheel syncing to the source. When I was playing with "pixel perfection" using powerstrip, I could rev the color wheel when switching freq., etc. My pj actually started to flicker less before its bulb popped but it seemed to be dimming each day a week or two prior to that unfortunate event.
post #125 of 163
Anthony, it is just nonsensical to me, how you would defend Marantz, when you have the same issues we have. If your bulb bursts tomorrow, you'd better not complain. Just pony up for a new one and shut up. The rest of us don't want to hear it.

Jetlag, I'm sorry you're seeing it too. This is a design issue. One I installed that had these problems was on a TrippLite APC with star grounding and a dedicated line.

It'll take a couple of months for Marantz to discover that they have made a mistake right here, right now.
post #126 of 163
Originally posted by MichaelZ
I wish they had an ignore feature on this board.
The bb software does, in fact, support this feature. Click on the profile link in any post of the member you wish to ignore, then on the next screen scroll to the bottom and click the appropriate link to add that member to your ignore list.

post #127 of 163
Jerome, muchas gracias!
post #128 of 163
My Marantz finally arrived! I will post more when I get the chance to see it on my Firehawk which is being installed this week. So far (knock knock) nothing seems wrong with it as I project it onto a wall. I froze it at some bright scenes and see no flicker (yet). I haven't checked out the bulb yet. Oh but is it ever a sweet picture! I am one of those "fools" who not only bought the PJ from Asia (but hey, i live here!), I bought it from an unauthorized dealer (no choice) AND bought it without ever seeing it firsthand (although have seen many earlier DLPS). Call me nuts but did know what I was getting into.

Given the thoughts about power supply, do you think it could be the 110v? I am running it at 220 and I think most if not all of Asia is too. Do you think that is why the Japanese engineers are not familiar with the flickering problem?

post #129 of 163
Gord, I think Patrick(Bunny) is running at 220v and is having flickering issues as well as having lost of sync (HTPC). I wish it was that simple:( Good luck on you pj.
post #130 of 163
Thanks Jerome. I know the first 2 I'll start with.

Anon...I have no problem 'defending' Marantz and the legit channels through which I purchased my PJ. My authorized dealer will replace my PJ free of charge whenever I like if the flicker is not solved by Marantz. If the bulb bursts they'll replace that too. Nice to buy through an authorized dealer, huh?

Jetlag, interesting about the power units you ran the PJ through...I guess it's not an a/c problem.

John, et al, I had an interesting experience tonight with the flicker. I had the PJ on for more than 7 consecutive hours. After an hour of cable I watched a ridiculous Tom Hanks marathon - Cast Away followed by Saving Private Ryan (as a budding film producer I get to do fun stuff like that :)).

During the hour watching cable (Time Warner Digital Cable including some HD stuff) the flicker was pretty awful - frequent, with the flashes lasting longer...by far the worst it's ever been. I was worried that things had taken a turn for the worse.

Then I watched the two DVDs and I didn't notice a single flicker. Not one. I watched about 10 minutes of cable afterwards and no flicker there either. Maybe it's more a warm up issue than a burn in issue? Anyone else notice this?

post #131 of 163
Originally posted by anthonymoody
During the hour watching cable (Time Warner Digital Cable including some HD stuff) the flicker was pretty awful - frequent, with the flashes lasting longer...by far the worst it's ever been. I was worried that things had taken a turn for the worse.

Then I watched the two DVDs and I didn't notice a single flicker. Not one. I watched about 10 minutes of cable afterwards and no flicker there either. Maybe it's more a warm up issue than a burn in issue? Anyone else notice this?

Hehe, You have been down that path as well.. Too funny, My story is so similar!

One night I turned on my projector with my Time Warner HD box being the active input. It happened to be on an HD channel. For 2 hours not a single flicker. I was looking for them, and didnt see them. Then I switched on my Xbox to play some NHL hitz, and about 30 mins into playing, the flicker started and pretty bad.

SO you can imagine what I did the next session with the projector. I thought maybe the signal locking onto a 1080i signal first would prevent the flicker. It didnt.

I have noticed on a few occasions that from time to time I can go for a few hours or so without the flicker, other times its worse than normal, happening every 8 to 15 secs.

post #132 of 163
Marantz specifically disclaims any warranty on the bulb, no matter where purchased. And we have seen several fail with a lateral crack along the base of the envelope.
post #133 of 163
Dan Miller, or Jim Smerz, or anyone from Marantz:

Would you please provide me via private message on this board, your agent for service of process in Texas. You don't seem to have an office here, and are definitely not registered with the Secretary of State. Your attorney would be fine. If I don't hear back I'll have to send to to Corporate. (which may not matter to you)

Maybe some people won't like this, and it grieves me, but I seem to have no other way to get my Service manual and resolve other issues.

If you don't like it,sorry.
post #134 of 163

You yourself state you bought the projectors you resold from Marantz Japan after you were turned down as a dealer by Marantz US. I fail to see what possible standing you could imagine to have to sue Marantz US, a totally seperate company from Marantz Japan.

The difference in price between Japan and Marantz US is partly due to supporting US functions like Dan Miller. When you buy from Japan to save the money it seems a bit dishonest to then keep demanding service from the very organization you freely elected to bypass in the name of saving cost.

I'm not a lawyer but I know that plenty of AV companies refuse to allow service manuals outside of their authorized service centers. There could be all sorts of proprietary info in them. Your issues should be taken up with Marantz Japan. But then you probably didn't even buy your resale units directly from them did you.
post #135 of 163
Anonymous Coward, you go get 'em :) Let us know how it goes.

Carl, aren't Marantz US, and Marantz Japan different pockets on the same pants? The money we have spent ended up in the same bank account, so to speak. As far as I know, service manuals and parts are available to anyone who wants to purchase them, if they exist, regardless of whether you are a dealer or not. I know of no company that withholds service documents for consumer equipment.
post #136 of 163

A company issues service manuals so their products can be repaired. Every company I know of limits that service to either authorized service facilities where they can be sure of the qualifications of those actually doing the work or to factory service departments. Many high end audio companies don't even have remote locations and insist that the equipment be returned to the factory for repair work. It's not like a Chevy parts department where you can order up a shop manual for about any model they make. Some CE companies may actually sell service manuals to the public but they have no obligation to do so.

Marantz Japan and Marantz US ARE NOT the same company. The $3,000 difference in dealer cost partly goes to fund the dealer training dept (Dan Miller) a US repair facility, and other Marantz US activities. I say partly because the pricing is clearly set at what the US market will bear, but the functions done by Dan Miller etc. don't exist in the Japanese market of box sellers that Kwon deals with.

WE bought our projectors from Marantz Japan even though we could have purchased them from US dealers. It somehow seems unfair to harass the US distribution organization when we didn't want to pay the price. It seems that if he were serious Coward ought to be trying to sue the Marantz Japan organization since that's where he purchased the projectors he resold.
post #137 of 163
[quote]Originally posted by amrud
[b]Before I cancelled my Marantz projector order, the only reason I went to a local authorized dealer was because I wanted a valid warranty. If it wasn't for the warranty, I would have preffered to buy the projector from an Internet based retailer -- at a lower price.

Frankly, I don't see the value I get from a local authorized dealer for the thousands of dollars I pay more. I am bringing this up because Dan said that authorized dealers are "people who have dedicated their lives to selling products and service and maintaining relationships and reputations". I think Marantz has done a poor job in selecting authorized dealers.

> So what you're really saying is you like to try out products and then buy it cheaper online if you could. If it wasn't for the B&M store displaying that product you wouldn't know whether that product was good or not. It's people like you who made me flee the retail side of our industry and go strictly custom with a private showroom. I had too many people like you waste my time that I got fed up and did something about it. It's the best decision I ever made and now I can focus 100% on my projects making sure they are done right and completed on time. Even though I'm not an authorized Marantz dealer (we sell Sharp for projectors) the majority of A/V companies are usually pretty good about setting up the right dealers. We've been fortunate to have relationships with some fine companies like Transparent Cable, Stewart Filmscreen, Snell Acoustics, ADA, Integra etc. these companies select you based on a number of factors. The majority of A/V manufacturers need to be picky about who they pick. They also have their reputations to protect.

post #138 of 163
I agree with Amrud. I think dealers would be forced to get of their jaded butts and actually SERVICE their customers to stay competitive. Wouldn't that be a surprise, and how American is that idea I might add? I have been on both sides of the fence, being in sales and being a customer and if anyone thinks there isn't a huge amount of corruption in the A/V retail business, then they are really naive. Dan seems to be a straight shooter to me though.

> If I was making a guess I would wager that you don't work in our industry. Dan Miller from Marantz is correct. People in the A/V industry don't make lots of money. I should know...I own my own custom A/V company and oftentimes I cry about the little money I make. As soon as you run a business everyone charges you more money. My phone bill primary charges (before LD, etc) are $300! My home based line is $30! Then if you have a showroom you have rent, bills for utilities, misc expenses (like S&H charges to cover, free service, etc), then if you have employees then you have their wages, plus government deductions, loan payments, car expenses, etc...besides the margins aren't great. I mean 3 years ago DVD players were about $800 now they're $200!!! So the profit per sale has dropped. Plus you need to add up competition that slashes prices so what little margin there is gets cut even more...so all in all you have no idea what you're talking about when it comes to this industry. You bring up service. We service our clients for free for 2 years!!! Some people may think this is crazy but when our clients spend their hard earned dollars with us we are grateful and wish to show that to them. They appreciate that and as a result are loyal to us. But free service calls add up with gas, opportunity cost losts, etc. In hindsight I should have gone to my other career choice which was working on Bay Street in the financial services industry...oh well but I love what I do and realize if I want to get rich in life I need to train my children (whenever I have any) to play golf and be REALLY GOOD at it...

post #139 of 163
[quote]Originally posted by AnonymousCoward
[b]Carl, I'm sorry you don't understand the Service Menu issue. It's about an important adjustment for pixel clock, which syncs the projector to whatever your source is, reducing herringbone and pixel jumpiness, and greatly enhancing picture quality.

> Are you sure you know what you're doing when it comes to servicing a projector? There was also a comment that you got turned down to be a dealer. How come? A/V companies are very picky about who they use. Their reputation is very important to them. How much experience do you have when it comes to running a business or installing A/V gear?

post #140 of 163
Thread Starter 

I have bought tons of equipment from local a/v dealers when I could demo the unit, found the staff knowledgable and helpful, and the price was competitive. However, in case of the Marantz projector, none of the authorized dealers have one in stock for demo. Further, they have no clues about projectors in general. You would think that if "someone had dedicated their life to home theatre", they would take the time to read-up about it so that they can help their customers.

There is no way I would pay $4000 more for a projector when I am getting no value for the additional price (if it wasn't for the warranty). All businesses have the expenses you mentioned above. Just because you may not have run your business efficiently doesn't mean that your customer should feel obligated to pay you thousands of dollars more for each unit. Any additional price can only be justified if there is additional value-added service to the customer (and not just additional business expenses).

Many thx.
post #141 of 163
Marantz has a real problem in that their dealers are primarily audio oriented as Marantz has traditionally been an audio company. I guess I'm lucky in having two dealers within about a 2 miles of my house, both having projectors set up. Now if I could only get them to get a Firehawk in to demo for folks. One dealer has 6 Grayhawks and no Firehawks even on order.

As I found out when calling around about Firehawks dealers are feeling pretty cash poor these days and are ordering as few new toys as possible. Short sighted, but that's what seems to be happening.
post #142 of 163


post #143 of 163
Amrud, ditto as well!

I have three so-called dealer's within 50 miles of me and, well, they did not have demos, did not have stock, and two did not even know what I was talking about. Lastly, when I went in search of my bulb, two of dealer's could not be reached at all and the third I was only lucky to get their voice mail :(

BTW, I would NEVER, EVER, demo from a dealer and then buy from an internet/mail order place. If someone spends the effort with me I will usually give them my business.
post #144 of 163
As I stated in a previous post, I was in the same boat. None of my locals within a 100 mile radius knew any details about the vp12s1. None were planning on getting any for a demo wither. The two that "heard" of it, said they could order me one, but when it came, it was mine. Site unseen, and retail, no discount whatsoever.

Im in noo way saying that this is a Marantz policy, but that is what their Authorized dealers were telling me. Frankly, spending 13k plus (With Tax) for something I have never seen was a little steep for me. Sure I did the same thing by buying from Japan, but it was less than half the cost, and of course, it was still my understanding that there was a global warranty. Now Im not so sure. If I didnt like the unit, I figured selling something for 6k is easier than 13k.

post #145 of 163
My local dealer carries the Sharp, the Marantz and the Runco (and the JVC DVHS VCR, currently paired to the Sharp). Over the course of a couple months I got to see the Marantz on 2 different screen types and sizes (no Firehawk as at the time they hadn't yet been released) and the Sharp on 3.

I sought out salespeople who were knowledgeable and fair. Should I have had to? No - they should *all* be knowledgeable and fair. But it was available to me, so I did. Guess I'm just lucky to live in the greatest city on earth.

post #146 of 163
I haven't posted in here in quite some time as I have been enjoying my Marantz too much, but I thought I would give my impressions of the projector.

The biggest problem I have had with my projector is the flickering problem previously reported. The projector flickers worse on poor quality NTSC sources and occassionally during movies.

I sincerely hope there is a fix for this issue, but I have enjoyed this projector for 500 hours and the flickering is annoying, but overall not a big enough issue to make the projector unwatchable.

I did have a problem with my SAT HD-100 HDTV tuner, but when I bought the RCA DTC-100 as Dan Miller suggested when I spoke with him on the phone, the problem was resolved.

Thanks Dan for all the time you have spent writing answers to user questions on this forum. I think it is really unfortunate that members have to resort to personal attacks on message boards to vent their frustrations. I bought my projector from an authorized dealer and am confident this flickering issue and some various sync problems will eventually be resolved.

Please continue to keep us posted on possible fixes for the flickering issue and status of other known issues.

Thanks again to Dan and all of the helpful AVS forum members.

Anthony Speier
post #147 of 163

May i ask how much this pj costs i the US and how much you pay i Japan? Here in Sweden i costs about 13.500 USD...

Have a nice day!

post #148 of 163
The MSRP in the US is $12,500 but it can be bought from authorized dealers for less than this. It can be purchased from Japan for much less, about $7000 from what I understand. HOWEVER, please read some of the many threads here about warranty issues that arise when purchasing in this manner.
post #149 of 163
Just a quick thought after reading about this issue. Are Japan and USA models constructed on the same facility and by the same people?If so, regardless of who you bought it from, there should be a firm compromise fron Marantz headquarters(wherever that might be), to get the problem fixed right away. I understand the value of dealers in terms of facilities for demo'ing and answering questions and being intermediaries between the Company and end customer if a problem should arise, but having to pay 100% more for that service is just plain ridiculous. When the projectors come out of the Marantz facilities my guess is they all carry a price, whatever it might be, and this price will go up every time more intermediaries get into the equation, but the product is still the same and there should be a moral responsability from Marantz, given the fact that someone had the confidence of buying their product, no matter from who, to give them full backup in terms of the warranty, or do they think repeat business and word of mouth is not a great business practice?In my case, being a future PJ customer i will wait till this flickering and dead pixel issue is resolved before making a commitment to Marantz. One last thought, after the warranty expires,what happens next? Will Marantz leave us on a limbo? Dont think so. Its not a good business tactic.If not, Thanks God for the competition, will have to look somewhere else
post #150 of 163
Just for the record I'm a dealer.

That said. I can find fault with anything! So can 26K members of this forum.
You will always find 10 negative posts for every positive one. That's just human nature. Is it a bad product, well I say demo the projector yourself. That's really the only way to know.

Also keep in mind if you are going to shop, compare within price points. So a Sony G-90 projector would be superior to my Sony 1252. But there is one heck of a price difference.

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