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Marantz projector problems and US purchase? - Page 2  

post #31 of 163
FYI on what the owners manual says about the lamp:

Manual at http://www.marantz.com/pdfs/u_vp12s1_man.pdf

From page 1:

Note: Lamp

…And also we have to note that that the warranty does not cover the SHP lamp for lamp failures: flickering, and getting darker along with accumulated lamp usage hours. We appreciate your understandings.
post #32 of 163
DAN,

I want to reiterate the appreciation most folks on this forum have of the time you're spending here. I think we all understand that tracking down and fixing problems like these take time. The best thing for us and Marantz is for you to keep posting info as it becomes available, especially info regarding what steps we should take to get our units repaired once the fixes are readied.

Thanks again,

b
post #33 of 163
I agree that the bulb flicker issue was just a small trivial thing with my Marantz and it did not bother me. Even the small wavy lines were just an annoyance and I would not have sent it in for warranty repair since I could work around them. But when the dead mirror showed up in the middle of the screen I had to send mine in for warranty service then. This projector produces an excellent picture in my opinion but if I were deciding on a projector right now I would not buy the Marantz. I would wait a few months till they get the kinks worked out then I would buy one. I have had 2 defective projectors so far. I hope Marantz of Japan fixes mine then I might feel a little bit more confident that it will work but if they replace it with another new one then I will ask Kwon to let the next person on his waiting list buy it and I will wait.

Dan Miller has answered my questions in the past regarding the projector and he tried to help me eliminate the wavy lines. I thank him for that. I was deciding between the Japanese Sharp and the Japanese Marantz when I was making my projector decision. I went with the Marantz because I thought the global warranty would make it available for warranty repair here in US. I was wrong with regards to the global warranty. Looking back I would've chose the Sharp because there weren't all the defective issues with it. Just lip sync and scaler issues but the Japanese Sharp didn't seem to have these problems.

So, if you are making your projector decision soon please know the risks you are taking by buying a Japanese Marantz. Its cost me around $640 so far in shipping costs to and from Japan sending it in for warranty repair and I still have to pay to get the one back I have over there right now.

Gord,

I hope yours arrives with no problems because the more positive reports I hear the better I feel my chances are of getting mine back with no problems.

Good Luck,
Mike
post #34 of 163
I'll throw my .02 cents in.

I agree with the posts expressing the opinion that we should just give Marantz a chance to respond to these issues. The fact that they have a voice on the forum is very positive.

I know that I'll get flamed for this but, I don't have much sympathy for those who bought overseas projectors and are now bitching and moaning. You all knew the risks and many bought the PJ when it was so new that there was no track record. I agree that it is tough luck, but it is not the companies fault. This is obviously not an item like a DVD player where basically 99% of them will work perfectly.

I bought the Marantz that will probably get delivered in about a week. My dealer will turn it on for me and do a quick look see. So if there are any major problems it will never reach my house. Meanwhile I have my dealers demo unit to enjoy. It has 300 HRS and yes the bulb does flicker about two or three times a film. This is not even annoying. In terms of VGA sync issues this is another problem that will probably be worked out. Meantime the component 480i inputs look better than the HTPC anyway, so big deal, this is a HT projector.

My advice to anyone sitting on the fence would be to find a good dealer so you don't have to worry about defective on arrival units and such.

OK I have my flame suit on.

John Moschella
post #35 of 163
John, I'll throw my $525 in. You better hope that you don't have a problem since all Marantz pj's are sent back to Japan anyway, regardless of where you bought it. If your bulb blows after a few hours use, expect a $525 bill to replace it, even though you bought it here from a US dealer. It doesn't matter where the pj was bought, it will end up at the same place for repairs. You just paid extra for the shipping charges up front with your purchase here in the states. My local dealers don't know a thing about the Marantz pj (if I could find one that would even answer the phone).
What I am bitching and moaning about are the the various QC problems on a premium priced pj - regardless of where it was purchased. If I bought an $2000 pj then I would probably not be sweating small things but expensive units you would/should expect a better quality and the manufacturer standing firmly behind the customer, regardless of where they purchased it. I will not purchase another Marantz product of any kind and I will probably dump this pj once it is working again. I'll look at the Dwin or some other pj that has a class service center.
post #36 of 163
John,

Where can I get one of those flame suits???:D
post #37 of 163
John,

My local Marantz dealer is 70 miles away and said they probably wouldn't even carry the VP-12S1 cause it looked bad when they saw it. Their price on the Sharp is $10,000 by the way and not a penny less. So I didn't really have many options on getting the Marantz except from Japan. I did take a risk but right now I have spent $7500 total including all shipping so far on it. I guess I am still $3-$4k ahead but that is dwindling. That is why I have learned my lesson on buying something like this from overseas and will only buy a proven product from now on. I just hope your bulb doesnt blow. If I was you i would wait a few months before you even got your US Marantz. Everyone should learn from Michael's and mines mistakes. I am not posting all my problems to moan about it cause I know you or anyone else on this forum isn't going to fix my problems but I just want to let everyone know my troubles with this projector so they can make a better decision than I did.

Victor,

I love the pictures of your theater. Looks great!

Thanks,
Mike
post #38 of 163
It's good to see some perspective back in the discussion.

Mike, thanks for the good luck wish - I hope I don't need it.

John, I bought my Marantz through a non-authorized dealer here because I couldn't find an authorized one. I did pay about 1000$ more than if I had ordered it directly from ********** but he allows me to get through the customs hassle and charges (which are major here) and he also takes the risk that it doesn't work out of the box. The PJ will still be subject to the Japan warranty and the dealer will take no responsibility for that, although he has promised to help me ($?) get it serviced if that is necessary. I asked for the sales receipt to be put in my name, but he says it doesn't work that way and the warranty card is blank (just as posted on this forum by the knowledgable fellow from Japan - sorry, forgot his name).

MichaelZ, I can understand your frustration and I do appreciate the warnings that you and others have provided to this forum. Believe me, I will be looking hard for hairline cracks in the bulb, dead pixels and any other problems before I take possession. Thanks to all for the heads up.

Gord
post #39 of 163
Gord (Gord B),

The knowledgeable fellow from Japan's name is Stewart (forum name: flstc). He's in the U.S. Air Force and he's stationed in Tokyo. He gave me lots of helpful information on the Marantz while I was on the hunt. Bottom line: great guy!

Mike (mbw23air),

Thanks for the compliment! It's small, but it's cozy!

By the way, I have a conspiracy theory that I came up with tonight that might help better the odds with regards to the Marantz issues. My suggestion: CHANGE YOUR NAME!!! It seems as though you (mbw23air), the other Mike (MichaelZ) and the third Mike (LEIPROD) are all having problems. :D

Of course, this is all in jest. I figured you needed a quick laugh after the fiasco all of you have been through.

Best of luck to all of you!

Victor
post #40 of 163
vdelauz, excellent post! I was starting to notice this "Mike" connection myself. We need to post a warning on AVS that anyone named "Mike" should NOT by a Marantz! Maybe I should change my name:)
Does seem rather odd - but better yet, me and MBW23AIR both live in Kentucky as well!
post #41 of 163
Quote:
By the way, I have a conspiracy theory that I came up with tonight that might help better the odds with regards to the Marantz issues. My suggestion: CHANGE YOUR NAME!!! It seems as though you (mbw23air), the other Mike (MichaelZ) and the third Mike (LEIPROD) are all having problems.
Hmmmmm....If it will help I surely will!!!!!!!!!! You can call me Sally. I bet there are no Sally's with Marantz troubles....yet.http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/image...s/rolleyes.gif

Quote:
Does seem rather odd - but better yet, me and MBW23AIR both live in Kentucky as well!
Oh great...now I have to move too! Damn, anybody with a good working Marantz have an extra room? Oh, I have a girlfriend who lives with me as well and 2 dogs.

I wish Marantz had put all of these stipulations in their global warranty policy. Guess I should've read the fine print.http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/image...s/rolleyes.gif

Mike
post #42 of 163
With all due respect to Mr. Miller, patience is a lot to ask of someone who has just spent over $10,000 for a product that is not working properly. Those parties should be able to exchange their units for a properly working one immediately. If Marantz cannot do that due to back orders , etc. than they should find a way of compensating these customers.
I am considerin purchasing the upcoming Marantz multi format DVD/SACD/ DVD-A player and would be wary of buying the 8300 if Marantz is not up to the task of handling problems effectively. Don't misunderstand me, I wish Mr. Miller and the Marantz company all the luck in the world, but they need to be careful in this situation. My dad bought a new Ford "lemon" once. Guess which brand auto he never looked at again? I can only imagine what he might have posted if there had been an internet then, and how many people his comments would have reached.
post #43 of 163
I want to add that the lamp can be bought in Japan as well, and I think it goes for around 300.00. At least thats what I think I was told, when quoted a price. Marantz Japan was willing to swap my bulb out for free though, so there wasnt a cost. Too bad it wasnt the lamp that was the problem to begin with. It was my projector. It cracked two lamps.

As far as the flicker happening 2-3 times a movie, I thought the same unitll I started playing Cideo Games on it, where a typical bright background may stay static for some time. The flicker happens between every 8 and 20 secs, and on games like NHL Hitz with the white backdrop ( The Ice Rink ), it gets VERY annoying.

On movies you dont always notice them, because you are constantly having different scenes of numerous varying shots, so many go undetected.


MovieMan
post #44 of 163
Thread Starter 
Thx everyone for their feedback. I do appreciate Dan Miller replying to our questions. It's great to see someone from the manufacturer taking the time to do this.

It does seem that (at this time) this projector has known QC issues. I called my local authorized dealer and cancelled my order. I just don't want to purchase a projector with known problems (even though there is a warranty). I would rather wait a couple of months and see if their QC gets better or look at alternatives.

This is too bad since I really liked the specs on this projector (DLP, high resolution, 16:9, short throw, high contrast, great scaler, sealed optics, vent at the front, quiet, etc). I couldn't find any other projector with the same specs. The new Dwin may have these features as well -- but it will likely have it's own "teething" problems.

Many thx.
post #45 of 163
Quote:
Originally posted by MovieMan


As far as the flicker happening 2-3 times a movie, I thought the same unitll I started playing Cideo Games on it, where a typical bright background may stay static for some time. The flicker happens between every 8 and 20 secs, and on games like NHL Hitz with the white backdrop ( The Ice Rink ), it gets VERY annoying.

On movies you dont always notice them, because you are constantly having different scenes of numerous varying shots, so many go undetected.


MovieMan

Last night I actually had the AVIA 100 IRE screen up for about a few minutes and didn't see any anomolies. So its clear that the unit I have now is not doing what you say.

Have people tried running the lamp mode low? Because my existing screen is relatively high gain (1.8) I have been running low mode. Maybe this is related to the flickering.

I understand waiting for the DWIN. It makes sense because the PJ sounds like it can be really nice particularly considering the throw options. In fact I was considering waiting myself and brought this up with my dealer. He also carries DWIN and told me not to worry about it and he would send me the DWIN to demo when it comes out. Meanwhile I am watching movies now.

It really sucks that there are not that many good dealers. I would expect that DWIN might even be worse in that respect. I use two dealers for all my home entertainment needs one is a 4 hour drive and the other is a 9 hour drive. So we use the mail. But you know what, its worth the hassle and extra cost, just for situations like this.

John Moschella
post #46 of 163
Movieman, I got a price of $412 for a bulb from Japan plus shipping/handling and insurance. Also, there i at least a one month wait. I really did not want to wait that long.
post #47 of 163
Quote:
Originally posted by PF
Misled?

When exactly did Marantz lie to us about the existence of the service menu? Come on. Who on this hobbyist Forum doesn't already KNOW that service menus exist, anyway?
Dude... Dan Miller told me on the phone that "there IS NO Service Menu" which is laughable. And that there IS NO pixel clock adjust, which is also untrue. Why are YOU, PF, wasting your energy on this question? What have you to do with this?


Quote:
More importantly, since when does a manufacturer have a duty to inform Forum members about how to get into the service menu? I'd be seriously reluctant to do that if I were Marantz, too...as is Sony, as is Sharp, as is JVC, as is Dwin, as is Panasonic...well, you get the idea.
OW, ya got me...

No, actually I don't get the idea. How in the world can the Service Menu be a secret? And why in the world would YOU be 'seriously reluctant' to release it? For some reason, this critical adjustment (pixel clock) was hidden, and we all must have access to it. There is no other way to eliminate picture artifacts.

Again, why do you care so much PF? Do you just like to fight?
post #48 of 163
AnonymousCoward,

A service menu is just that, a menu for service technicians. I have never purchased ANY item and found the access to the service menu in the owner's manual. The reason it's not there is because they don't want you to have access to the things in the menu. A user menu, on the other hand, is where the manufacturer places things that the user can adjust.

This being said, if there is in fact the existence of a service menu, none of us should, in theory, have access to it. If Dan Miller knows of it, he's in his right not to share that with anybody. That's the way things work. You need to understand that.

If it ever did come out, I'm the first one that would take a look at it and see what it's all about. BUT, the fact remains, it's not anyone's right to demand access to it.

Let's all understand this and play nice with the manufacturer.
post #49 of 163
With due respect Victor, can you see how important the pixel clock adjust is?

I am an engineer and a dealer of home theater. I am a service technician by trade and by avocation, and I quite know what I'm doing. I did try to become a Marantz dealer, but was turned down.

Let me make this clear, as it doesn't seem I have been: I need the Service Menu to adjust the pixel clock. The pixel clock is a critical adjustment to attain picture quality. Marantz chose to put this critical adjustment in the Service Menu. Last word I have from Dan is that there IS NO pixel clock adjustment. This is implausible.

This seems to me to be a sort of cartel. Those of you who support the 'sweetheart' pricing the Japanese get, are quite simply supporting this cartel.
post #50 of 163
I for one, have not seen any of these anomalies with my projector. I have just anchored it inverted into it's 'permanent' home on my ceiling with the '12' mount (very easy to install BTW).

Still using a temporary screen until my Firehawk arrives, but looked for any problems critically last night, and saw none. Will do another evaluation once the good screen arrives. Currently have almost 150 hours on the PJ.

Ordered my PJ from a us GP vendor, and it arrived very thoroughly double-boxed. Still, the 'Men in Brown' (I refer to them as "THE DESTRUCTORS" look for the DVD release to come out soon :D ), did there best to destroy the unit enroute. The outer box was pretty well shredded by the time it reached my doorstep.

Will update my observations once I hang the Stewart screen.
post #51 of 163
AnonymousCoward,

No disrespect taken.

No, I can't see how important the pixel clock adjust is either. I don't know what the freakin' thing is, much less what it does.

I'm a home theater enthusiast. I'm not, by any means, as thoroughly versed as most of you "in the field".

I'm not an engineer and I'm not a home theater dealer either.

What I am is a realist. Reality and common sense get me through my life.

Here's a question that I honestly don't know the answer to. This may help you in your endeavor. Do any other projectors (9000, HT300, etc.) have the "pixel clock adjustment" doohickey in the USER MENU?

As for the cartel thing, everyone is entitled to their opinion. The Japanese connection is simple business. You either do it or you don't. In the end, based upon your experience, you either liked it or you didn't. Remember, in all businesses, there are risks involved. I, personally, don't refer to it as a cartel, it's simply a business going to market the way all businesses go to market. Of course, this is only my opinion ;).
post #52 of 163
Dear Mike's (aka...anyone who owns a broker Marantz projector on this forum),

If we pool our resources together and start swapping parts around I'm positive we could get at least one of this things to work properly. Then, we could create a timeshare system that allows each of us one full month a year to use "our" projector. Just think, with the remaining balance of the time we could rent the unit to other Marantz owners for a month at a time (the lead time to get one fixed by Marantz) to try and recoupe some of the money we blew on these projectors in the first place. The best part is that between us we would have a much bigger parts bin for these things then Marantz seems to have at this time. My guess is we should have each recouped our initial investment by the time the HD-4 chip becomes available. Brilliant isn't it? Just a thought.

By the way, I'll change my name to anything to try and break the hex...just don't call me Shirley

MIKE...uuuugggghhhh...I mean, Jim.


P.S. Dan, are you out there?
post #53 of 163
Quote:
If we pool our resources together and start swapping parts around I'm positive we could get at least one of this things to work properly. Then, we could create a timeshare system that allows each of us one full month a year to use "our" projector.
Mike...I mean Jim,

Can you take out your TI HD1 DMD chip and send it to me. Since mine had the dead pixel in the middle I will need to replace that first. I hope your DMD chip doesn't have faulty mirrors which is causing the problem this thread is about. Damn, forget it. I need you to send me your bulb and Michael(from Louisville)...I mean Z.... to send me his DMD chip. I was gonna get his bulb but his is in several pieces. If you guys could get those parts to me I could have this thing up and running by next week. Damn, wait.....My Marantz was shipped off to Japan again. Hey, can I still get in on your timeshare deal???http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/image...s/rolleyes.gif

Mike.....I mean Sally
post #54 of 163
Hi Mik...ahh crap...Sally,

What makes you think you get the first month? Huh?

-------

By the way, for all you blown bulb people out there that are waiting for new bulbs to be purchased from Japan. As of two weeks ago Shelly's Audio in Woodland Hills, CA checked on the availability of them from Marantz US. Loren said they had them in stock and could get one to me in two days if I ever needed it. I hope this helps you get them replaced.

MIKE...I mean Jim.
post #55 of 163
I'm sitting in my hotel at 7:20 PM in a georgeous location in So. Cal. It is 7:20 PM in the evening and really wish I was home with my wife and baby, or at the very least enjoying a great meal at Matsuhisa (hopefully, some of you know about it... :) ). Instead I'm sitting here in front of a laptop writing this, smoking a Padron 1964 Anniversario Torpedo, which is a pleasure I usually allow myself when I feel good. Tonight however, I am doing it because it's about the only thing that is helping me feel better about doing this. I know I might open up for more flak here, but so be it.

AnonCoward (how fitting): YOU ARE THE REASON THAT WE HAVE AN AUTHORIZED DEALER POLICY!

You are what we call a trunkslammer. You might be an engineer; good for you. You might be a service technician; good for you again. But you are not a dealer of home theater. Dealers have ethics; you have none. You purchased an expensive product for a "customer" sideways (Japan?) and sold it to him for who knows how much profit, and didn't inform him of the fact that he was screwed if he needed help from anyone else but you. Now he is having problems that only you can solve for him (which he doesn't, by the way-- but that's another issue; do your research and stop looking for the easy way out). And you are frustrated because we won't help you. BOO-HOO.

You know what Mr. Cook? Have your customer call me. You have the number. I am one of the most accessible people I know of in this industry. I promise I won't slam you to him, and I will tell him the information that he needs to know.

The reason we have authorized dealers is because anyone can find a source for products, market themselves, and call themselves a dealer. Anyone can buy a domain name, get an account with UPS and start selling on the internet also. And immediately get GLOBAL exposure. Is that fair to the people who have dedicated their lives to selling products and service and maintaining relationships and reputations?

You never applied to be a Marantz Dealer. You think that can't be checked? Maybe a phone call to one of our representatives, but that isn't even close to becoming a dealer. And they have not a clue as to who you or your company is. And it's their job to know any of the real players in their area, whether they sell our stuff or not.

For everyone else here, let me lay out what is happening here:

About a month and a half ago, we got an email from this person asking about the pixel clock. A reasonable enough request, since it isn't in the user menu. At the time I was working with my sample from pre-production, and was interested myself, since using a PC I could get very close to pixel perfection, but not exact. So I asked the engineering team in Japan for the information about the service menu.

Now I travel quite a bit; I'm on the road about 200 days a year (damn! my cigar went out :( I hate it when that happens), so I wasn't able to get the information right away. I was also asking about other issues that I thought the service menu could help with, like some Faroudja adjustments suggested by Stacey Spears that might do some interesting things. During that time, I managed to talk to our intrepid AnonCoward for about 25 minutes during a long drive through the Northwest rainforest. I let him know during that time that I was working on it and I understood that it is important information for HTPC use.

When I returned, I was informed by Japan of several things:

1. That there are service areas that if made public would violate non-disclosure aggreements with Faroudja/Sage.

2. The code to get into the service menu (but not what was there).

3. That the pixel clock was non adjustable, because it is the master clock that ties into both the Faroudja and the PixelWorks circuitry of the projector.

Now, the first thing I did was to try out the service menu. I have already reported about my findings elsewhere, but I'll recap here: It is useless for anything we might wish to do. It check things like whether the LEDs are operating properly, whether the main controls are working properly, and if the remote buttons are operating. I'm not giving out the code to get into this menu because I was asked not to from Japan. But from what I saw, who cares?

Then I started fooling with my PC some more and got even closer to pixel perfection (my settings are close to the ones reported here by others, so no need to get into them now). My unit looks great with a PC, as do others here, so as nice as it might be to have the pixel clock adjustment, it is by no means an absolute necessity.

Here's the long and short of it. The projector is firmware controlled, and to change that firmware requires a PC and a chip burner. Now this is what I've been told from Japan, and I have no reason to not believe them.

About a week later, I get a call from our National Service Manager, who, by the way. is a great guy and as honest as they come. He wants to know if I can help him with an issue regarding the VP12S1 and adjusting some clock. It turns out to be our hero. So I call him, get some financial firm on the phone, leave a message and he calls back. I explain to him that there is no clock adjustment, and that the service menu won't do him any good. He calls me a liar because he KNOWS that there is an adjustment, and we get off the phone. Now at this point, its just kind of humorous, so I let it go. I have no idea yet that he isn't even an authorized dealer, or any of the other unethical things going on here.

The next day, our Service Manager conferences me in on a call with him (I was just listening; I didn't say anything), where he admits to buying it sideways, so he is told that he wasn't going to get a service manual either. The service manuals are for authorized servicers only. Period.

Now he's pissed. So he writes an email to Japan, which gets bounced back to us. Now really Mr. Cook, do you think by going over people's heads, you are going to accomplish anything other than making yourself look like a fool and guaranteeing that you won't EVER get help?

So now he starts here. I realize what is going on as soon as he posts about the clock.

Now, lemme ask any of you: Why would we keep this information to ourselves if it existed? But with the Powerstrip settings posted by several members here, this thing looks beautiful.

Now, like I said earlier, I HATE THIS. My stomach is in knots, and I have had to ask my dealers if I can use their internet connections to check this forum during the day. I want to be helpful, because I realize that we all have a common goal, but I will not have my credibility or ethics questioned here; I have been doing projection television since 1974 and it's one of the reasons that I still am a part of this industry after 30 years. So I'm done with this matter.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now, on to other things.


Amrud:

I'm sorry that you felt the need to cancel your order. The business side of me tells me that it's no big deal, because we can't build these things fast enough. And not only that, but even though ours is the best of the lot, ANY of these new HD1 devices are so much better than anything else out there previously, that no one who owns one comes back and feels ripped off. But the emotional side of me doesn't want you to do this based on skewed information. Here's a little nugget from the manufacturing side of things.

There is no such thing as a perfect product. There will always be some little issues tugging at the apron strings. That having been said, I can honestly tell you that there has not been one time-- NOT ONCE, where I haven't set up a VP12S1 for a dealer, turned it on, let it warm up, where they haven't said WOW!

Quote:
patience is a lot to ask of someone who has just spent over $10,000 for a product that is not working properly
I agree. 10k is a lot of money. Hell, 5k is a lot of money. The real question is what defines a product that isn't working properly. And that is always going to be a matter of opinion in cases like the flickering. Obviously if it blows up that's one thing. But my pre-production has the flicker. Is it annoying? Yep, it sure is, and I'm pickier than anyone else I know. But on the other hand, I've got over 300 hours of movie and TV watching on this thing already, and I love watching it. Would I like the flickering not to happen? DUH. So the chief Japanese video engineer and a translator are coming to my house on Sunday to discuss these and other things. We will get these issues resolved, I promise.

Please everyone, be careful about letting this board, or anything else you read, make decisions for you. You have to have faith in your dealer, and the products they carry. If you don't then get a new dealer.

This is a small industry; most of us know each other-- hell, most of us have worked over, under, or with each other at some point. It is also an industry that is fueled mostly by passion. Very few of us are getting rich here; we just love what we do. The dealers in particular. Most of the dealer priciples that I know who are driving the exotics are doing phenominal amounts of business, not the little guys. And they believe in what they do. So if you have gotten burned in the past, move on. And find a dealer that you can put your trust in. You might pay a little more, but it'll be worth it in the long run.

Thanks for reading this. And I apologize if this was unconfortable for anyone; it was more so for me.

So, I'm going to go downstairs, take a walk, and try to relight my Padron.

Dan
post #56 of 163
Dan,

I didn't get much of a warm, fuzzy from that.

I've seen the Marantz. It looked very good. But demos aren't indicative of what you ultimately have to live with.
At Japan prices, I might be able to live with the issues. At US prices, no way.
As far as the "sideways" thing, Marantz did it to themselves by simply not setting a global price, IMO, to go with that global warranty. Oh, wait...;)

What's happening here, is that I'm being convinced to wait for the Dwin.
post #57 of 163
Dan,

Thanks for taking the time to visit these forums, and even making public that you work for Marantz. Sure you will receive alot of praise when things are going well, but as they are now, you are taking a lot of flak, and I know how hard that can be. Kudos to you, for stepping up.

You are right in saying that you are very accessible, as a matter of fact within the hour of my projector arriving, and it being DOA, I was able to talk to you personally over the phone. What caught me as a surprise that day was finding out that by purchasing a unit from Japan was a major no-no, and according to company policy, you were not even supposed to talk to me, but you did, and I appreciate it. What left me dumbfounded, was that Marantz USA would not deal with me, even after I honestly thought I would be covered after reading Marantz's own website. At the time of my purchase it was my understanding, that if I had a problem, I would be taken care of. I wasn't trying to get one over on anybody, I just wanted a nice projector and the best price. My honest thinking was the difference in price was caused by the weak Yen. I didn't think I was "going out of network", especially when Marantz does in fact boast this "Global Warranty Policy" It was only then did I realize, I'm in for some trouble.

Now unfortunately, whatever comes of this, I own this projector, and I cant change that. I must say that while its awesome, at the same time I feel its incomplete. There are definitely some QC issues to be dealt with. What really puzzles me, is that you and Japan seem to be aware of some problems, yet you cant make these things fast enough. Wouldn't it be, wiser to halt production and add any changes needed before all the legal customers get what seems to be a troubled projector? Would it not cost Marantz more, to take these units back, fix them and ship them out again?

Now looking back, I do understand why you frown on our actions of buying this projector through Japan. After all you are a dealer rep. (If I remember correctly), so you have to protect them, but many of us did it honestly. I must say that even before ordering my unit, I did do a dealer locator search on the Marantz website, and the two dealers that came up, I think within 100 miles, told me that they will not be carrying the unit, but could order one for me. I would also have to keep it though, whether I liked it or not. I'm sorry but that was just too much money to buy it sight unseen. As a matter of fact one of the dealers that I ended up ordering a new bulb from, ended up ordering the wrong bulb, fortunately I caught the error, because he told me if Marantz had shipped it, it was considered mine, and had to pay for it. I understand this may not reflect marantz's policy, but it was none too pleasing. SO I canceled the bulb order completely. Two weeks later when I was at the same shopping center I noticed the store either moved or closed shop. One way or the other it was no longer there. No one answers the phone either. So that leaves me with one dealer in "my area" that was willing to sell me the projector, but was forcing me to keep it, and pay upfront via credit card. I'm not asking for sympathy, that's just the facts.

By going to another dealer here in the US, possibly in another state, and one that would carry the projector,I would STILL be going out of the dealer network in a sense. Afterall, I still have a local dealer, and he can "get" me the unit, but I am bypassing him because of the "have to buy" policy. Would I still be covered? I do not see how this varies too greatly from buying one from Japan. Another point some cities have the benefit of having multiple dealers within the same city. If I went to store A and he quoted me retail, then I went to store B and he quoted me 20% off retail, even though he is not supposed to, would I still be covered? Who wouldnt jump at store b's price?




I also feel that if anything, we are also providing Marantz a service in reporting our findings. Yes, we were quickly looked down upon for our actions, but at the same time, "company guys" do visit here as well to monitor whats going on, and learn from it. Lets face it, the people that visit here divided by the people who actually bought one from Japan is actually minuscule in comparison to the market Marantz is selling this product to. I really don't think we put that much of a hurting on Marantz with such small numbers( I could be wrong), but still the parent company, Marantz Japan, is still making money, because the units WERE PURCHASED THROUGH A JAPANESE AUTHORIZED DEALER. The fact that the projector seems to have serious QC issues, and that Marantz USA is not even geared up to service them, makes me feel like a beta tester. Unfortunately for Marantz, even the people that went through the proper channels to purchase one, are probably feeling the same way.Just think how much we are probably saving Marantz and its dealer network by simply calling attention to the problems we have come across. Many of which were explained even before US Dealers were getting their units in. Yet it seems Marantz is just cranking these things out, flaws and all. I honestly hope for you guys and for everyone that has one, that there is an easy fix.

Please understand that while I do have a frustrating tone to my message, its not an angry tone, and even so the frustration is not directed to you Dan. The million dollar question is, what happens from here? Will Marantz even look at our (Import version) projector when a fix does come about, even if we have to pay for the fix? I do not doubt Marantz will get to the bottom of the problems, and soon many of the vp12s1 troubles will be corrected. My thinking is the fix will be hardware related, at least for the flicker anyway. Is Marantz going to be able to get a service facility for this projector up and running here in N. America?

I consider myself a Marantz customer, I hope Marantz sees me as a customer. Afterall, Marantz now has my money, just not here, in Japan.:)



MovieMan
post #58 of 163
It's not that we "look down" on those buying from Japan. As I said to you that day, I totally understand the motivations (remember I have a new wife, a new house, and a newer baby). It is about protecting the relationship that we work hard to maintain with our dealers. We are a company that bends over backwards to keep our dealers happy; because of this, we are continuing to grow in a relatively flat industry. This makes everyone happy. Well, almost everyone. Our global warranty policy hasn't ever changed. You just needed to read a little further, about the purchasing locally part.

As far as the QC and build rate, we are making about 20 per day. For the world. And by far, the most reported issues are right here. Not the USA mind you, but on this list.

I don't think that this list is an accurate cross section of our buyers (some have purchesed from Japan, all of you are extra critical), but I look at it as an invaluable resource, because critical or not, I want us to have the best toy out there. In other words, just because the average VP12S1 customer might not be as picky as we are here, and have probably never even heard of this place, doesn't mean that important issues aren't being brought up that absolutely need to be addressed.

In the backorder list, we have dealers who have prepaid for their own personal projectors, many theaters who are waiting for this last part, etc... They will GLADLY take the unit as is, because as is -- is pretty amazing. We have only had 6 calls internally about the flicker issue (which, by the way, is the only real issue to surface-- by real I mean more than 1 or 2). I know this because all the calls come to me. I'm tracking everything.

As far as what will happen to people who bought Japan units down the road, I don't know. The service structure is still being assembled here in the states for this product. But as long as Japan wants every one back, we send it to them. But I'm sure, that once service gets set up here, if someone wants it, they'll get it. How it gets paid for is another matter.

As far as Japan being aware of the issues, they know I'm aware of them, but they have NO occurence of it in Japan (100V 60Hz) or Europe (220/50). Assuming my sample piece cooperates on Sunday, they'll see it firsthand.

As far as the dealer network goes, we try to make sure that everyone has a dealer accessible to them, but unforntunately, every one makes their own policies. All we can do is suggest. And you bring up some good points, and they will be asked of our VP of Sales. I'll let you know...
post #59 of 163
Quote:
Originally posted by Dan Miller

As far as what will happen to people who bought Japan units down the road, I don't know. The service structure is still being assembled here in the states for this product. But as long as Japan wants every one back, we send it to them. But I'm sure, that once service gets set up here, if someone wants it, they'll get it. How it gets paid for is another matter.
Dan,

Even though its not definite, that does give me hope. That coming from your mouth, or fingers if you will, will let me sleep easier tonight. I sometimes wonder why I/we stress over these things. There are more important things in life, but having nice toys makes it funner:D

MovieMan
post #60 of 163
Quote:
What caught me as a surprise that day was finding out that by purchasing a unit from Japan was a major no-no, and according to company policy, you were not even supposed to talk to me, but you did, and I appreciate it. What left me dumbfounded, was that Marantz USA would not deal with me, even after I honestly thought I would be covered after reading Marantz's own website. At the time of my purchase it was my understanding, that if I had a problem, I would be taken care of. I wasn't trying to get one over on anybody, I just wanted a nice projector and the best price. My honest thinking was the difference in price was caused by the weak Yen. I didn't think I was "going out of network", especially when Marantz does in fact boast this "Global Warranty Policy" It was only then did I realize, I'm in for some trouble.
Dan,

I read the same thing into the Global Warranty Policy. On your website it didn't list exceptions. Here is what it says:

"At Marantz we believe the service we offer to be as important as the products we produce. Therefore, it is our wish to offer our customers a true World Wide Guarantee. This is offered via our global network of Service Agents, who are selected on strict performance and technical criteria. After sales support is not just about fixing problems. It is about advising, maintaining, and upgrading. This policy has been beneficial to all those who choose Marantz. Our reputation today is built not solely on technical expertise, but on the people who help our customers enjoy a lifetime of superior listening pleasure. With every Marantz product we guarantee a long service life. We supply most parts and technical data from stock, and work swiftly and reliably with minimal inconvenience to our customers.

To realise our aim of providing excellence in pre and after sales service care, for all our customers, regional service policies have to be in line with the Marantz global commitment. Therefore when a Marantz product is bought locally, the warranty obtained at the time of purchase can be transferred to any country in the world. "

Should I have taken the last sentence as "I, myself have to buy it" an not an agent buying it for me? It was purchased under "my name". How would you know if "I myself bought it"? Again, I was honest in saying someone bought it for me. I am not trying to hide the fact of how I obtained it, I told you that in a PM I sent to you and you politely informed me I have to send it back to Japan.


Quote:
I must say that even before ordering my unit, I did do a dealer locator search on the Marantz website, and the two dealers that came up, I think within 100 miles, told me that they will not be carrying the unit, but could order one for me.
My closest authorized Marantz dealer I visited had just gotten back from CES and when I asked about the VP-12S1 they told me that they would probably wouldn't even carry the VP-12S1 cause they weren't impressed with it. So where does that leave me?

The flicker is just a small annoyance to me. I would've given anything for a VP-12S1 with just a flicker annoyance. I absolutely love the image this projector produces but I can't get one that works properly at all. I have had numerous problems on both of my units not counting the flicker.

I do appreciate all the time you have spent here addressing everyone's problems. You have an excellent product but Movieman is right as far as quality control on these things. Our projectors aren't any different from the ones people will buy from the authorized dealers in US so when they experience some of the pains we have experienced they will be mad as well especially after plunking down $10-12k even if they send it in for warranty repair locally or have to deal with flicker on a $10-$12k projector. Hopefully you will get the kinks worked out which I am sure you will.


Quote:
So the chief Japanese video engineer and a translator are coming to my house on Sunday to discuss these and other things.
Hey, can you check with him to see if my projector has been fixed at the Service Center in Japan and have him bring it over. It will save me some money on shipping.http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/image...es/biggrin.gif

Thanks,
Mike...I mean Sally

P.S. Dan, you are lucky your name isn't Mike
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