Buying first 2 ch. system - Help! - Page 2

Ack... You need some professional help. Why in the world are you spending 1/3 of your budget on an amp? $400 TOPS with a used Parasound HCA 1500 or equivalent.

Another $299 on a Squeeze Box Touch. It's DAC section is nothing to sneeze at. Get an external 1TB drive for $70.

For less than $800 you still have $2200 left for speakers. You can do better than the Paradigm 100's.

Look at the Song Towers from Salk Sound.



Old CD's rip to a computer just as well as new CD's.

At least there's still some sane people in this world.

+1 for Salk Speakers

Where do you live TowerJack? What major city (or close).

Maybe a member that is in proximity can also give you an assist.

I worked with member herzzreh and was able to find a totally slamming setup that he wasn't even thinking about. PM him. He hasn't posted since 4/26/11 though. Check it out.

OP, Focus on Speakers first. Do not buy with out listening

True.
He could get Revel F12's and a couple spatially distributed subs for the same money/superior sound (waves/field).
If that actually matters.

cheers,

AJ

This is good advice...however...it can be a double edged sword.
Look at the Paradigm he likes (not sure which version)

Clearly it is made to "stand out" in the showroom .
The average audiophile listens at the dealer and goes wow!, those sound great! Such clarity and detail. Well....
Then they own it for a while and (maybe) start to notice a slight "brightness" on recordings that are absent on their reference headphones....mainly because it's not "there"..in the recording. And so another loudspeaker joins the used market and the unending audiophile quest continues..because they are oblivious to technical matters in the real world, but instead depend on websites and magazines to give daydream like subjectivist reviews and "Class A" awards. From people who listen to Korn (or vacuum cleaners) at 116db seated .

cheers,

AJ

That woupd be an excellent course of action.

Yep, that is reminiscent of the blatty, bloated bottom end that I have come to associate Paradigm with. That and the 'Bling' that they dress their speakers up with.

Suffice it to say Paradigm is not a brand I recommend.

Stereophile's speaker measurements at low frequencies are known to be problematic. They don't use an anechoic chamber, but rather a near-field approach. Almost every speaker they measure has that same bass peak in the measured data. Pretty suspicious. Above about 200 Hz or so the measurements should be pretty good, as they use quasi-anechoic techniques for that (not sure which one though).

For the OP: Even if it's already been said, it bears repeating -- go out and listen to speakers and buy the best you can afford and the biggest you can accommodate and/or tolerate.

Once you've identified your speakers -- or at least narrowed the options -- use one of the many SPL calculators on line to figure out how much amplifier power you need to run the speakers to the loudest levels you're likely to listen.

Spend some time reading through the All Amps Sounds the Same thread. It will help you avoid putting too much stock in professional reviews of amps and CD players.

Spend most of your budget on speakers and you will be off to a great start.

I have no beef with Paradigm per se, I actually think they make nice loudspeakers, or at least made, like the Eclipse Bipolars from many moons ago.
And as Rock_Bottom point out, their near field splice is typical for most ported boxes (many are far worse). It's the HF rise that stands out...sells well to the masses, but not for the critical ear.
I just wanted to point out that showroom auditions can be problematic as well.
Never the less, I do recommend them when possible. Bring your own music!
(and at least know their spectral balance using quality phones)

cheers,

AJ

Last time I listened to some ~$1K 'Digms about 4 years ago they reminded me why I didn't like them when I listened to them in 2000 and 96'. I just don't like the lower octave.

As always, use your own ears. YMMV.

+2, Thumbs up on the Revel F-12, and multiple subs are the way to go.

Awww... what's with the cross thread hate?

Are you suggesting that Paradigm's longstanding success in this industry derives from a strategy whereby they "wow" customers in the showroom with a tilted sound knowing full well that, once home, they'll soon grow to dislike it?

That strikes me as a ridiculous notion.

+1 on the above. To the OP - there's nothing wrong with Paradigms. Quality speaker brand and highly regarded. If you listened to them and like them, then don't be dissuaded. Your ears are the only ones you should trust.

I can't tell if he is recommending them or not.




Not sure which version? Why post the graph then?




Ok...

I agree. Plus, any good information that might be gleaned from his posts is often eclipsed by his sarcasm and use of straw man arguments.

No, you stated this generalization.
Agreed, your generalization was ridiculous. Good self awareness on your part. Non-audiophile I take it?

I actually showed the measurements of a Paradigm Studio 100, the particular model in their wide lineup that the OP said he listened to. However, that was v3, as in version 3. Their site simply lists the Model as "Studio 100" now. No version, unless I missed it. Maybe they smoothed out the treble. Or not. Who knows.
Of course, there are manufacturers who do just that, create a wow response to sell speakers....and who said anyone who likes that sound automatically grows to dislike it? Most audiophiles have no clue what real instruments sound like, much less how to hear faults in reproduction systems, even gross ones.
Paradigm makes stuff like this:


and this

So your "long standing success" means little. Except when people believe something is good because of a namebrand. There is another speaker company that vastly outsells Paradigm, based on that premise.

cheers,

AJ

Do you play an instrument, AJ? Just curious, not saying that it is necessary.

The audiophiles I know go to far more live concerts than the general public and by far. Indeed, it is that drive to emulate the live experience that gets many of them to invest so much time and energy into this hobby. One out of three conversations with them is about live music. Indeed, we have lots and lots of threads on WBF about the challenges of matching the live performance at home.

Nope. They do it for me here under the cloud.

cheers,

AJ

You should do a poll outside your next concerto, see how many people there (except mental health professionals) know what an "audiophile" is, much less whether they were one.


Right. But the other two are about hearing the sound of SPDIF cables and DACs.


. One thread without a sales pitch for the WTF??? forum would be nice .

Now you (or your associates) do carry both Revel and Paradigm correct?
Ok Amir, F12 (+ subs) or Studio 100?
¿Quien es mas macho?

cheers,

AJ

That would show what percentage of concert goes are audiophiles. It has nothing to do with your generalization that audiophiles don't know live music. To get that data, you would need to poll the audiophiles and that is precisely the data I provided.

I wouldn't throw multiple subs in a room and hope for the best if that is what you are asking. You need an EQ in front of them plus time, energy and space to get them to blend right and have smooth in-room response. I have not heard the Studio 100 but we have the F12 and it has superb fidelity. It is an incredible bargain with or without the subs. And yes, it does have a softer high frequency signature. That said, off-axis response of the Paradigms has gentler response too so you have some options there also.


You have lived in Florida too long. Reminds me of people speaking Spanish to me when I lived down there. As to your question, I will one up you and answer in Japanese: 私


In Japanese Romaji: Ja!

I just find this type of argument interesting, I play 8 instruments and have been told I don't know what instruments sound like by Golden Eared Objectivists.

Next it will be suggested that I cannot play well if I keep changing instruments.

Notice how "real instruments" (acoustic..i.e. violin, piano, etc) morphs into "live music", which could include Korn and Justin Bieber...although, apparently using Stereophile Class A components somehow makes both listenable.
Bzzzt...Your sample size is statistically insignificant...

That's not what I'm asking. I'm asking your opinion on what Jack should spend his hard earned, finite budget on. I gave mine.

Actually no, you only need that for multi listener, like HT. For a solo mission like stereo listening, user sweet spot seat EQ should work just dandy. Jury is still out on temporal issues at LF, though you see what side I lean towards looking at my loudspeakers.
However, there is a poster around here who repeated tries to steer audiophiles towards room eq/correction products like HT receivers and such (not just multi LF source), rather than name brand face plates with audiophile "street rep". What's his name again??

Or maybe the Paradigm is a bit harder (at least the v3), depending how you look at it.
But the real question was...for $2k, Studio 100, or F12 + 2 subs? Remember, the F12 extends below 30hz, where modes are sparse, so essentially you have 4 LF source spatial distribution in the modal region, vs 2.

Either that or I watched too much SNL in college .

Well, just FYI, Guitar Hero isn't an "instrument", musicians have a different perspective than the audience, where typical recordings represent.
Plus listening to power tools at 116db and believing that Korn represents well recorded music with dynamic range, should certainly raise questions about hearing ability, so we have to take stated opinions part and parcel.

cheers,

AJ

おはようございます Amir San,

Pick up a MiniDSP or equivalent for less than $200 and a $30 SPL meter then. I don't know if the OP is interested in chasing the rabbit down the hole. Many people have started out innocuously enough to be posting here 5 years later on one heck of a journey.

That is what sites like this are for.

I like the idea of the F12 plus stereo subs IF the OP can reasonably accommodate such an arrangement. I think it will easily out perform the 'Digms.

I've has enough experience with Paradigm to tell that the highs are not for me. My brother loves his though, as do many people, so I think we are stuck with amp reco's for the OP now,

The F12 and subs would be a blast, enough to make me want to go buy a Guitar Hero... almost.

If money is tight, the H/K 3490 can save the day for you.

I have played Taps at military funerals... that was ONE instrument. Funny you are going to tell me what a musician's perspective is. Are you suggesting that sitting in the audience gives you a better perspective on live music sound than playing an instrument does? Perhaps you can envision me, just once maybe, sitting in the audience listening to music once in my life, or am I just on stage all the time?

Guitar Hero is PITA. Honestly, I tried the GH drums at a friend's house once, the lag took the fun out of it.



I've already addressed this strawman with the link to your cross thread silliness above.