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ccotenj finally gets a projector... :) - Page 2

post #31 of 153
Thread Starter 

well, i ALMOST got the room ready before the screen got here... still got a few things to do, but since it arrived yesterday afternoon, there was no way i wasn't gonna put it together and hang it on the wall...

not too many pics, sorry... i was too excited about getting it, and i forgot to stop and take pics along the way... but i did take a few...

comes in a big box...

IMG_1653.JPG

frame put together and screen ready to unroll...

IMG_1657.JPG

assembled...

IMG_1661.JPG

on the wall... VERY disappointing that the beads was on vacation yesterday, i'll have to wait til next week to get her lifesize...

IMG_1668.JPG


Edited by ccotenj - 7/7/12 at 6:18am
post #32 of 153
Thread Starter 
a few comments on the screen... keep in mind that this is my first projector, so i can't compare to other screens, etc., and that other screens may (or may not) also accomplish some of the things this one does... all my comments are based upon my eyes in my room...

- i admit to a certain amount of anxiety when it came to constructing it... this was the first screen i'd ever put together, and all of the warnings about how you can screw it up got my attention... however, it was very easy... i put it together by myself, and swmbo helped me hang it on the wall... it took about an hour from the time the box was opened to the time it was on the wall... i breathed a big sigh of relief once that part was over...

- as you can tell from the pics, it's not really "black", it's a softish grey... actually rather cool looking on the wall when nothing is being projected on it...

- it works as advertised... the ability to reject light from above is pretty amazing... and the "overall" ambient light rejection is pretty good as well... very solid picture under my "normal" viewing conditions yesterday afternoon (filtered indirect sunlight from north windows, enough so that you can read)... definitely will do the job for sports during the day without having to cave up the room... as this was a big priority for me, i'm very pleased with that result...

- at night... mamma mia! we watched "tron legacy" last night (bad movie, swmbo was VERY disappointed in it, but for eye candy, it worked)... i'm "used to" having a "quality picture" (i've had a kuro 150fd from the day they came out, and had a 111fd as well, both well calibrated), and i can easily be described as a "picky" viewer... i would imagine as time goes on, i will have some nits to pick with this... that being said, if you put absolute black levels out of the equation, this is VERY close to being a very big kuro... i was completely transfixed...

- at night, with the high side lights turned on... again, VERY good... i recorded the truck race and watched it after swmbo went to bed last night... played with various lighting... i can turn the side lights on almost all the way with very little degradation of pq... blacks obviously begin to wash out a bit, but it seems like my eyes/brain adjust pretty quickly and "create" the missing contrast... it would appear that if your pj can create enough lumens, you can light up the room pretty good with not too many bad effects... more to come on this as i experiment with lighting positions more...

- it doesn't "light up the room"... the da-lite (high contrast matte white) would light up the room almost enough to read... this puts very little light back into the room... there ARE reflections off the speakers, but not as bad as i had thought...

- rejection of light coming from the sides is HIGHLY dependent on "how far away from the screen it is", and highlights how important the "create the right conditions" credo is... it does NOT like light coming from the side if it is close to the front wall... opening the blind completely on the closest window to the screen washed it out to an "unwatchable" condition... migrating an artificial light across the space in between the windows, there's a "magic spot", where there's a big (and i mean BIG) shift in light rejection... that magic spot is half the distance between myself and the screen (i think i might know why on this, but i'm not sure yet)... once past the magic spot, it just eats up the light... with the blind in the back left corner wide open, there's obviously some washout, but it still renders a "better than just watchable" picture...

- the black velvet around the edges point out exactly how "not black" the black paint on the wall is...

so after one afternoon/night with it, color me VERY happy... it wasn't cheap, but it was worth it.... and when you consider that the pj/screen actually cost me 1500 less than the kuro did, it's a pretty darn big bang for the buck (albeit still a big buck)...
post #33 of 153
Thread Starter 
to come:

- finish off the last 4 panels for the corners and get them up... with any kind of luck (i.e. me getting off my lazy can and doing it), they'll be up today....

- send swmbo to the paint store and make her finalize the trim choice...

- velvet panels for around screen...

- get mount ordered, if anyone can ever get me a price on one... i may just go ahead and order this from b&h...

- figure out where to stash the rest of the equipment...

- a bunch of other little stuff...

but i'm getting close...
post #34 of 153
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by farkem View Post

Nice job!

Just out of curiosity, what are the dimensions of your room? How many seats? What's the distance re: the primary seats?

Thinking of doing something similar, just not sure which way to go, yet...

thanks!

curiosity is always welcomed...

- "usable" dimensions are roughly 15.5' X 14'... about 1/3rd of the room is another 1.5' deep (where the "back" window is)...

- 2 seats (reclining sofa), 12 feet from screen... it's just me and swmbo who have to be happy in here... that makes life a bit easier for me, i don't have any big viewing angles, 2nd row, etc.

i thought/dreamed about doing this for a LONG time... i've had pj lust ever since i was a kid wanting a reel to reel pj... but i've never had the room/desire to set up a dedicated projector room, i don't like to live in a cave... so i always lusted, but never actually asked for a date... i was "stuck" between two desires, one being a big honkin' pj screen, and one being a "normal" room the rest of the time...

with what you can buy now ("reasonably" priced pj's with enough lumens, screens that have certain abilities without having too many other drawbacks in the correctly sized/planned room with seating in the right place), i was able to accomplish my goal... i can comfortably sit in my room during the day and watch sports the way i always have (i.e. lights on and "multitasking"), and i'm pretty close to having a "real movie theater" experience when the lights go out...

that's not to say that you still don't have to make a few compromises... even given the light rejection of the screen, it's still much happier when it's darker in here... i wouldn't want to watch a "dark" movie with all the lights on, but contrast is far less important for sports (and again, it almost seems like my eyes/brain do some adjusting here)... i also did make the effort to reduce reflections some by going with the grey flat paint on the walls, but as you can see from the pics, it's far from "dark grey"... lighting will have to be carefully planned out...

but if you ignore the black front wall, it looks like a "normal" living room, except there's a big "magic window" on the wall... and to be completely honest, i think that the screen itself wouldn't care if you left the front wall a lighter color... i personally want a "black hole" effect on the front wall (which is why i'm going to build the velvet panels), but i don't believe that would be necessary to get good performance...

have i talked you into it yet?
post #35 of 153
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hudda View Post

Coupla questions Chris-

Are you going to eventually have this room set up so that the Kuro is used when the screen is up? If yes, maybe think about a motorized adjustable shelf for the center channel so you can switch between "TV mode" vs. "Theater Mode." I assume you would also want separate EQ profiles for each mode that you can easily toggle. If the Kuro is out of the picture then I'd suggest ordering another main as a CC for an exact match across the front stage. Isn't it nice of me to spend your money??

Is that wooden wardrobe a built-in? If so, I would suggest you remove the doors and mount new doors that would allow you to isolate all of your gear, except the actual projector) into one neat space. As long as your gear could breathe a bit in that space this would lower the noise floor and tidy things up. Just an idea.

Chris

hey chris... man, you've been spending my money ever since i met you... you are the reason those two big truck bed liner covered boxes are sitting in this room... the only person at avs who has cost me more money is nuance...

coupla answers...

- nope, the kuro is in the bedroom now... even when i had the original screen, i quickly came to the realization that i would never actually watch it in here once the option of "watch it even bigger" existed... i NEVER thought i'd think a 60" tv would look small... but it looks positively TINY now...

- you are reading my mind on the center channel... unfortunately, there wouldn't be room for another tower there... however i'm going to talk to jim sometime down the road about flipping the tweeter in the existing center so i can stand it upright... i THINK i might have enough room to do it that way... for the time being, i need to either construct/buy a more effective stand for it and get it a bit higher off the ground...

- yup, the false front is a "built in"... again, you are reading my mind there... i thought about that option a long time ago, it'd be the absolute "best" place for the equipment to go (short of getting it in another room)... unfortunately, it's only 12 inches deep... i considered removing the false front and expanding it "out", but that wouldn't work either, as the radiator would block me from doing that (not to mention that i might actually run into a waf issue there, she loves her victorian false front)...

- i may yet either build a rack into the right hand wall or put the equipment on the other side of that wall and run the wiring through it... i've wanted a built-in rack for awhile, but i'm WAY too afraid of blasting a hole that big through 2 plaster walls... i fear that i will end up with a REALLY big hole (plus plaster is royal pita to take down and the resulting mess is pretty impressive)... if it was drywall, i would have done that long ago... however, i could pretty easily get a conduit in between the two rooms to run wires through, and carolyn already indicated she'd sacrifice a few square feet of here dressing room if i wanted to do it that way... so that may come soon... any square feet of real estate i can gain in the room would be a positive... plus it would make for a MUCH "cleaner" look in here...

you gotta quit working so hard so you can come spend a few hours at chez cote...
post #36 of 153
^^^

Gotcha. I like the idea of either a conduit or a built-in rack if possible. You and I both have old houses so I completely get that one has to work with some compromises. Swmbo is very kind indeed to even make the offer for some HT invasion into her dressing room.

I really like what you've done here. It's all very sensibly planned and the end result looks frickin' amazing. Just like a giant Kuro, huh? Damn it.

Chris
post #37 of 153
Thread Starter 
^^^

thanks chris... coming from you, that's high praise...

not "just like", but certainly "close to" a giant kuro... you know it's gotta be close, because you know how much i loved that display... for me to discard it so willingly, that says something...

we are in agreement on the "built-in/conduit"...

what's amusing is that i'm running into a small "reverse waf issue" there... she LIKES to see the equipment... talk about role reversal... i want to get it as "clean" as possible in here, and she wants me to leave everything out where she can see it...

i suppose that's better than having the opposite problem...
post #38 of 153
Thread Starter 
progress report:

not much yesterday...

i did get the rest of the panels stretched... used EVERY last inch of the gom i ordered... i underestimated how much fabric i was going to need... mental note: order a yard more than i think i need next time...

unfortunately, i didn't get them up, it rained most of the day yesterday so i wasn't able to make the mounting points for the wall for them... i need to cut up a whole boatload of 45 degree angled pieces...

i did get it cleaned up a bit more up here... and i think we've settled on a paint color for the woodwork...

so there was some progress... just not as much as i would have liked...
post #39 of 153
Great stuff ccotenj!

I used to be all about my plasma. But since setting up a projector I never watch movies on the plasma. And certainly all my pals and I want to watch sports on the Big Screen as well.

Wow about your wife wanting to see equipment!!!

Mine hates seeing equipment. And nothing bugs her more in the world than cables and cords. Sometimes if a buddy of mine is phoning she'll answer the phone with "House of Cords..."

Well, I actually don't like seeing cords and too much gear either, so I went for as clean a look as possible for my room. Glad I did. My wife is happy. As husbands in China apparently say: "Happy wife; happy life!"
post #40 of 153
Thread Starter 
^^^

thanks rich! i think i'm going to be able to accomplish my goal of having a pj in a "normal" (albeit somewhat carefully planned out) room... i'd still never refer to my room as a "home theater" (imo, "home theaters" are another BIG step beyond what i'm doing), but it's gonna be a darn good "media room"... the only thing i really wish is that the room was bigger so i could have kept my pinball machine... but that was a minor tradeoff to get things "properly" set up in here...

glad you wandered your way into my thread, as the "other thread" we were conversing in has completely deteriorated... i DO have some commentary that i think would be helpful to prospective buyers (especially "new" pj owners), but it's pretty worthless to offer it right now... i like my new screen a lot, but to be honest, i'm almost embarrassed to admit i own one given the behaviour of one of the fanboys in that thread... while initial impressions are that "it's gonna work great for me, with my usage, in my room", there are some obvious drawbacks in "real life use" that may be showstoppers for people...

any suggestions/comments you have are more than welcome... you've lived through this whole experience before... and you've done a great job of explaining to me the "whys/hows" of front projection... without your help, my room wouldn't be anywhere close to what it is now...

yea, as noted, i loved my plasma... still do, actually, although if i could get away with selling it, i would, but she put her foot down there and said "we are keeping it"... and there's no doubt, especially as the novelty of the new toy wears off, that the plasma produces a "better" picture (it's not trying to spread the pixels across such a large space, superior black levels, no hotspotting, no "texture", etc.)... but the overwhelming size advantage of the pj trumps all of that... i knew that plasma would just sit there on the wall and never get used (although i am MIGHTILY tempted to mount it on one of the side walls)...

husbands in china are VERY wise men... and one of the ways that i keep her happy is to give here as good an a/v experience as i can... i'm pretty lucky... she greets every new toy with as much enthusiasm (if not more) than i do... heck, when i got up this morning, she was in here watching the weather channel on the pj...

as noted, we have "reverse waf issues" in this household (lol at the "house of cords" comment )... we both can easily be described as "geeks"... she'd be perfectly content if i put all the equipment on the floor with all the wires running around in a huge rat's nest... that way she could see it all... but that's her... when i pieced together the bedroom audio, i bought a integrated tube amp for her... she loves sitting there and watching the tubes glow... the only "bad" part of that is that she then wanted tube amps for the "main" room, and it took me quite awhile to convince her that it wasn't a feasible option...

i, otoh, despise seeing wires and would be really happy if i could just make all the equipment disappear... i like the "minimalist" look... the less stuff, the better... i don't like clutter/crowding... if i had nothing other than the screen, speakers, subs, pj and sofa in here, i'd be perfectly content...

fwiw, this extends to speakers with her as well... when i went speaker shopping last time, i was going to stay with bookshelves... i like bookshelves, they have a lot more placement flexibility (and that would have been REAL helpful with this project)... but she expressed a STRONG preference for "big" speakers again (as in, "you ARE going to get towers, right?", accompanied by "that look")... she still hasn't forgiven me for selling "her" b&w matrix 802's (imo, quite possibly the ugliest speakers ever made)...

i even offered to go ahead and sell the subs and get pretty veneered ones... but she likes the "truck bed liner" finish of the subm's... she thinks it makes them look like they mean business...

and don't even THINK about covering up the drivers with grill covers...

again, thanks for all your help and for sticking your head in this thread...
post #41 of 153
Thread Starter 

made some progress today... took the day off and had a friend of mine come over and help out for awhile...

got all the receptacles switched over to black from white...

got the panels up in the corners....

before...

IMG_1670.JPG

after...

IMG_1679.JPG

IMG_1669.JPG

struggling to get a good shot of the wall... these don't quite get it across... i'll get better pics once i have more natural light in the room (lovely grey day in the toxic waste dumps today)...

IMG_1677.JPG

IMG_1690.JPG


Edited by ccotenj - 7/7/12 at 6:12am
post #42 of 153
Thread Starter 
the panels ended up working out quite well... making the corners "disappear" like that leaves nowhere for the eyes to wander to, and focuses the eyes even more on the screen.. i'm real happy the way they came out...

once more however, it gets pointed out exactly how "not black" the black paint it...

they were reasonably easy to mount as well... they would have been REAL easy to mount had my walls been square... since they don't weigh anything, we took some pine, cut it just shorter than the panel width, and cut 45 degree angles off each edge... put outdoor 2 sided tape on the 45 degree cuts, and stuck it to the wall... put three of these on each side, one on the top, one in the middle and one at the bottom... put velcro on the back of the panel frames where they hit the cross braces, and up they went...

hard part was getting something that isn't square to "look square"... we had to putz around with the braces a bit to get them positioned right to pull the frames all the way to the wall...

the nice part is that it's all put together with 2-sided tape and velcro...
post #43 of 153
Thread Starter 
next steps...

- pick out trim paint (that's been on the list for awhile now... )...

- get/construct a properly sized center channel stand... the cardboard box isn't getting it done...

- get materials for/construct velvet panels for around screen...

- order some grey gom for wall panels... besides the fact that i used up all the black i had, the black would be out of place on the side walls...

- decide what to do where the ceiling intersects the front wall... the black to white transition is HARSH... something has to be done there, even if it's temporary...

- try and decide if i really want curtains or not... swmbo and my buddy sat here after we got everything up today and blue-skyed about curtains around the screen/side walls... i'm not completely convinced about this yet, but they are ganging up on me on this one... i need to think about it a bit...

- if anyone has a good example (or a link or two) to how they motorized their curtains, i could use some education on that subject...

- start planning soffit/lighting construction... that'll be fun, i like to plan... it's the "doing" part that i suffer with...

as always, suggestions are welcome... i'm learning as i go along here...
post #44 of 153
Wow that looks awesome! I love the black wall and how it helps focus on the screen. Great job man!

Ok...now just when you might be getting comfortable it's my job to make you more paranoid.

Those speakers, I suspect, are relatively reflective. Most speakers have a veneer so even if they are dark wood, the veneer is reflective. As close as they are to the sides of your image it may be having some effect on the image, reflecting back to the screen.
It certainly would with a white screen, and I know the BD screen is good at rejecting light from top/bottom, but I think less so from the sides.

Even if that weren't the case, I personally find speakers right near the screen somewhat distracting as even in the dark they get lit up right near the screen.
That's why I made black velvet covers for mine. Once those speakers disappear it really is another step into "whoa" territory.

But...I'm one of the rare folks who go that far. Most people have no problem living with visible speakers...so don't listen to me.

No.

Don't listen to me.....

;-)
post #45 of 153
^^^

Rich,

You are right on; it would be distracting. IIRC, velveteen shrouds are on Chris's to-do list. It'll be kinda cool to cover them at night or for critical viewing but still be able to remove them for the bling factor when the mood strikes. Carolyn will insist on it!

At least they won't be permanently hidden behind a baffle wall.

Chris
post #46 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

- decide what to do where the ceiling intersects the front wall... the black to white transition is HARSH... something has to be done there, even if it's temporary...

How about ordering up a set of matching black GOM "corner" bass traps? You could even make your own. Or not.

Even if it didn't have quite the absorptive qualities of the big boys in the side corners, one long shallower superchunk style ceiling-to-wall corner trap is possible. This could be custom-cut to integrate cleanly with the side wall corner traps and would give the appearance similar to that of a picture frame or an angled "tunnel" toward the viewing screen wall. A black wool runner running side to side under the LCR's would further integrate the black hole look. lol.

Chris
post #47 of 153
hmmm, he put a no no to the idea of installing a false wall to hide the speakers behind...

but he has to live with his choice.

given the size of the subs, i would of gone lcr for front personally..

but hey as long as he is happy with it who are we to judge hudda & r.harkness
post #48 of 153
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post

Wow that looks awesome! I love the black wall and how it helps focus on the screen. Great job man!

Ok...now just when you might be getting comfortable it's my job to make you more paranoid.

Those speakers, I suspect, are relatively reflective. Most speakers have a veneer so even if they are dark wood, the veneer is reflective. As close as they are to the sides of your image it may be having some effect on the image, reflecting back to the screen.
It certainly would with a white screen, and I know the BD screen is good at rejecting light from top/bottom, but I think less so from the sides.

Even if that weren't the case, I personally find speakers right near the screen somewhat distracting as even in the dark they get lit up right near the screen.
That's why I made black velvet covers for mine. Once those speakers disappear it really is another step into "whoa" territory.

But...I'm one of the rare folks who go that far. Most people have no problem living with visible speakers...so don't listen to me.

No.

Don't listen to me.....

;-)

thanks rich... i'm real happy with the way those came out... it accomplished exactly what you note, it forces your attention to the screen... i stole the idea of the corner panels from someone else, but i think i'm the first person that came up with the idea of using canvas stretcher bars rather than attempting to construct my own frames... laziness is the mother of simple solutions...

lol... yes, it IS your job to make me paranoid... you made the mistake of letting me latch on to your knowledge base, so you now have to give it all to me, both good and bad, since i'm stealing your ideas as i go along...

there's no such thing as "going too far"... as chris knows, i'm pretty much an "in for a penny, in for a pound" type of person... i'm willing to go the extra mile, within reason of course...

yup, they ARE reflective (i'm VERY glad i didn't spring for the hand rubbed gloss finish option)... no doubt about that... and while the bd screen does send a bit less light to them than the white screen did, they still are getting plenty...

and yup, when watching at night, it's definitely noticeable, especially in "full cave" mode... the dark areas of the crotch aren't too bad, but the reddish areas reflect pretty good...

so i'm stealing the black velvet cover idea... i just forgot to put that on the "to-do" list... i was considering doing something real simple to start, just cut two long strips of velveteen to the depth of the speakers... glue a round dowel to either end... then drape it over the top of the speakers when needed... they'd just roll up on the dowels and be easily stored away then...

but i like the idea of making a whole shroud better... whether my measuring/sewing skills are up to that or not remains to be seen...

i'm also going to cover the submersives with velvet... although i'll miss that truck bed liner finish...

keep making me paranoid... in the end, i'll end up with a much better result because you are making me "think", rather than just "do"...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Hudda View Post

^^^

Rich,

You are right on; it would be distracting. IIRC, velveteen shrouds are on Chris's to-do list. It'll be kinda cool to cover them at night or for critical viewing but still be able to remove them for the bling factor when the mood strikes. Carolyn will insist on it!

At least they won't be permanently hidden behind a baffle wall.

Chris

yup, as noted above, they are... and yea, it'll definitely be cool to have two different "looks"...

nope, i'd never hide my babies behind a baffle wall... carolyn WOULD fight that, and to be honest, so would i... hiding the speakers would not pass maf... i enjoy looking at them way too much to do that...

besides, it would "break" two of the key objectives of this project, which is "the room will remain a full time 'normal' living space, while making it as projector friendly as possible" and "the speakers MUST be able to be placed at the optimal positions for music reproduction"... this remains a "music first" room... every design decision i make has to be weighed against those two things...

i'm kinda liking the effect now... if you stand at the front of the room and look towards the back, it looks like a "normal" living room... then you go stand at the back and look at the front, and you see that it's anything but "normal"...
post #49 of 153
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hudda View Post

How about ordering up a set of matching black GOM "corner" bass traps? You could even make your own. Or not.

Even if it didn't have quite the absorptive qualities of the big boys in the side corners, one long shallower superchunk style ceiling-to-wall corner trap is possible. This could be custom-cut to integrate cleanly with the side wall corner traps and would give the appearance similar to that of a picture frame or an angled "tunnel" toward the viewing screen wall. A black wool runner running side to side under the LCR's would further integrate the black hole look. lol.

Chris

not too far off of what i was pondering last night... and yea, i need a black runner for under the speakers... i'm in search of something for that...

since i have plenty of room to play with above the screen, i was considering this as an option...

a) build soffit over screen...

b) put can lights in soffit... i should be able to get electricity to it on that particular wall...

c) stuff soffit with absorptive material...

d) cover soffit with gom...

that would accomplish a few things...

a) would give me a "break" between the wall and ceiling...

b) gives me some more lighting options...

c) it rarely hurts to have more trapping at a wall intersection... and if it does, it would be easy enough to "unstuff" the soffit at that point...

this option has the "bonus" of being reasonably easy to do... i can likely construct/mount the soffit in a day, soffits are "easy" to build (getting it so it looks "square" against all the crooked walls will be the challenge there)... then figure another couple days to finish it (i.e. install the lighting, cover it, re-program the remote to control the lights, etc.)...

the other thing i'm strongly considering as a "temporary solution" is just to stretch a few more panels with black gom and velcro them to the ceiling... that would at least eliminate my "white/black" break issue right above the screen, and give me some time to consider all the other options... but i'm afraid if i do a "temporary solution", i'll get lazy and it will become a "permanent temporary solution"...

as noted earlier, swmbo and my buddy are now all hot to put curtains up... i'm still considering that... rich has provided me with an option of how to do it, and i gotta tell you, his solution is WICKED cool... carolyn would sit there for hours on end and just play with them, knowing her...

i think that will likely end up happening, but i need to replenish the slush fund before going there... i want to do that "right" when i do it, and that will likely be the most expensive part of the entire project... so i need to consider that in conjunction with anything that i do now...

keep those ideas coming guys...
post #50 of 153
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mystic_sniper28 View Post

hmmm, he put a no no to the idea of installing a false wall to hide the speakers behind...

but he has to live with his choice.

given the size of the subs, i would of gone lcr for front personally..

but hey as long as he is happy with it who are we to judge hudda & r.harkness

had i been planning a full theater room from scratch, and had the space to do so, i certainly would have taken your suggestion of a false wall... trust me, there's NOTHING i'd like more than a "real" home theater space (vs. a really nice media room, which is where i'm trying to get to in this project)...

but as noted earlier, it simply wouldn't "fit" in here from a logistics standpoint (and as noted, it wouldn't "fit" from an "end goal" standpoint, either, remember, i'm not building a "dedicated" room)... there's zero amount of "spare space" in here... i'd end up with a room that's only 9 feet deep (at best), and the wall would fall in the middle of a window, radiator AND door... that's not a workable solution, unfortunately...

i appreciate the suggestions though... gives me food for thought for future projects, should i ever actually move from my current tiny house...
post #51 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post


and yup, when watching at night, it's definitely noticeable, especially in "full cave" mode... the dark areas of the crotch aren't too bad, but the reddish areas reflect pretty good...

I'd planned from the beginning to make everything disappear around the image but doing it happened in steps. First velvet on the center channel, then on the L/R speakers which are monitors on stands. It got better and better. The last step for me was wrapping the same black velvet around the L/R speaker stands, which were still slightly visible during movies. It may seem like a small thing, but once that last bit of visual information was removed, leaving the whole front wall perfectly pure of anything but the picture, it made the effect complete. Like a magic window.

You can click the first link under my name and see how neat it makes the area around the screen and movie images.

Another benefit of making your speakers disappear from view is it tends to help your brain map the sound to the image more easily. When you can see the sound source your brain can be telling you "sound is coming from those speakers." But if they are gone, your brain will tend to just hear the sound and associate it with the image, mapping it on to the image. At least that's my experience.

I know a lot of people think "why bother?" doing anything more once you've thrown a screen up and you've got your equipment around the screen. But paying attention to the "crazy details" is really what separates one home theater from the rest, and which elevates the experience.

In my living room/theater I also have dark velvet curtains that are pulled along the side walls well into the room, to make the walls mostly "disappear" as well during movies. I've had plenty of guests comment that they've watched movies on other friend's projectors/HTs....but that for some reason it was much more involving and amazing watching movies at my place, "Like you are actually IN the movie!"

Not being "in" to this hobby they sometimes can't place their finger on why that was the case. But I know it's because I've paid attention to the little details that really do, whether people realise it or not, impact the viewing experience.

Same with when my installers came to view my finished home theater in action. They are the city's biggest AV installers and sell my exact projector, so they've seen it in plenty of rooms, and have set up hugely expensive home theaters etc. But when they watched some movie clips on my set up they sat there with their eyes like saucers, constantly saying "Wow" to each other and they couldn't believe it. To them it was simply the best they'd ever seen...even talked about how it raised the bar and made them realise things can be taken to another level.

And that is all simply due to noticing which details can be addressed to improve the viewing experience...it's not as if I had some different super projector.

The point isn't to brag (ok, I don't mind a little); just to hype you on possibilities.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

so i'm stealing the black velvet cover idea... i just forgot to put that on the "to-do" list... i was considering doing something real simple to start, just cut two long strips of velveteen to the depth of the speakers... glue a round dowel to either end... then drape it over the top of the speakers when needed... they'd just roll up on the dowels and be easily stored away then...

Very clever. Sounds like it would work.

I ultimately made some velvet panels that fit each speaker exactly. I attached Velcro out of sight underneath each speaker, so the panels are stretched and fitted neatly. If guests even notice the speakers they often ask "what type of speakers are those? They are really nice!"

However, I started off with something closer to your idea. I just had velvet panels I cut to the width of each speaker, and then cut to a length so that when draped on a speaker it would hang to cover the sides...hanging a fraction of an inch lower than the sides to ensure seeing no wood. Since a good velvet is pretty soft and hangs well it form fits the speakers as it hangs. The effect was very close to what I have now: very neat, and makes the speakers totally disappear. No dowels were needed at all: it was ridiculously easy. Just plop the velvet on the speakers when watching a movie and lift them right off afterward.

Which actually brings in one more suggestion: the use of Ottomans! First, it's awesome to have an ottoman in front of the viewing chairs/sofa to put your feet up. My guests all use them at my place. But the other benefit is easy storage. There are plenty of ottomans which have a lid, so you can store stuff inside them out of sight, like blankets etc.

I use mine to store extra pillows and blankets, but also any extra room treatment stuff that I throw on for movies. So I used to just throw those velvet panels into one of the ottomans, so they were always sitting just a few feet from the speakers, which again helped make the process effortless.

Anything you can do to make things easy pays off big over the long run.

FWIW....

Cheers,
post #52 of 153
Chris-nice job on the room!
post #53 of 153
Thread Starter 
^^^

thanks mate...

@rich... i'm digesting that post... but i'm in complete agreement, it's the little "finishing touches" that really make the difference...
post #54 of 153
Well, at least I know why I haven't heard from you lately

Chris, that room looks fantastic! That said, I'm kind of glad my current room doesn't really lay out well for a projector - less temptation.

One minor complaint though - if you are going to use shots of a race in your posts, how about F1 instead of NASCAR

Does the PJ support 3D? It would be cool to see how 3D looked in large format compared to my puny 65" plasma....
post #55 of 153
Thread Starter 
^^^

howdy dude... yea, i've been a bit busy with other things...

thanks! but if it will fit in my room, it'll fit in any room, so you can't use that as an excuse...

yea i hear you... i'll take some f1 shots this weekend... even on my fancy "primer painted on the wall screen", it was WAYYYYY cool watching last week's race... the in-car shots literally give the impression of sitting in the car... i can't wait for monaco... i expect a visit from you to watch a race...

nope, no 3d... i thought about that when i got the pj, but decided against it... from what i've been reading, in order to get "good" 3d, people are having to do 2 completely different setups, one for 2d and one for 3d...

i MAY try that vip theater product somewhere down the road though...
post #56 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

^^^

howdy dude... yea, i've been a bit busy with other things...

thanks! but if it will fit in my room, it'll fit in any room, so you can't use that as an excuse...

yea i hear you... i'll take some f1 shots this weekend... even on my fancy "primer painted on the wall screen", it was WAYYYYY cool watching last week's race... the in-car shots literally give the impression of sitting in the car... i can't wait for monaco... i expect a visit from you to watch a race...

nope, no 3d... i thought about that when i got the pj, but decided against it... from what i've been reading, in order to get "good" 3d, people are having to do 2 completely different setups, one for 2d and one for 3d...

i MAY try that vip theater product somewhere down the road though...

No way - it won't work in my room
No way - it won't work in my room
No way - it won't work in my room Trying to convince myself, particularly given I can already see a 2012 pre/pro (and maybe an amp) coming.

Monaco sounds great - what would really be cool would be to run a driving sim on that screen!
post #57 of 153
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bfreedma View Post

No way - it won't work in my room
No way - it won't work in my room
No way - it won't work in my room Trying to convince myself, particularly given I can already see a 2012 pre/pro (and maybe an amp) coming.

Monaco sounds great - what would really be cool would be to run a driving sim on that screen!

well, now that i'm almost done, i'm going to have some free time again, and i plan on getting over to see you next month... at which point, i will try very hard not to point out that you can make it work...

i'll ensure that the f1 races have the "save until i delete" option set...

oh geez, yea, i didn't even think of a driving sim... my ps3 is sitting in it's box right now... we never played any games after the first month or so i had it... not that we didn't like playing the games, but we just never had time...
post #58 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

well, now that i'm almost done, i'm going to have some free time again, and i plan on getting over to see you next month... at which point, i will try very hard not to point out that you can make it work...

i'll ensure that the f1 races have the "save until i delete" option set...

oh geez, yea, i didn't even think of a driving sim... my ps3 is sitting in it's box right now... we never played any games after the first month or so i had it... not that we didn't like playing the games, but we just never had time...

F1 2010 for the PS3 might be worth buying - The PC version is quite realistic. Mount up a good wheel/pedal set and you won't be able to get me out of your new room
post #59 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by bfreedma View Post
No way - it won't work in my room
No way - it won't work in my room
No way - it won't work in my room Trying to convince myself,
I was thinking the same thing. If I was going to do this, Chris's approach would be a "drop fit" into my room and criteria.

Chris- Would you mind giving a mini breakdown of what cost what? Why did you go with this particular PJ?

TIA,

Chris
post #60 of 153
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bfreedma View Post

F1 2010 for the PS3 might be worth buying - The PC version is quite realistic. Mount up a good wheel/pedal set and you won't be able to get me out of your new room

hmmm... i'm gonna drop that into my "phase 2" ideas spreadsheet...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hudda View Post

I was thinking the same thing. If I was going to do this, Chris's approach would be a "drop fit" into my room and criteria.

Chris- Would you mind giving a mini breakdown of what cost what? Why did you go with this particular PJ?

TIA,

Chris

what's "interesting" is how much (and how quickly) my approach changed... a month ago, i was just shopping for a pj and a cheap screen so i could watch movies at night... i didn't even really have any idea that it would turn into this... but the more i read, the more i realized what i could do with a little bit of work, creativity and money (ok, a bit more than a little)... and you know me... "good enough" is NEVER "good enough"...

so i set myself what i considered a "reasonable budget" to accomplish the goal (i.e. a projector/screen that could deal with a decent amount of ambient light, along with a room makeover that wouldn't turn my main living space into a cave)....

i ended up with the vivitek for a couple reasons... when i decided that i wanted to be able to watch some sports during the day with it (i still hadn't reached the point of thinking about eliminating the kuro then), a few guys suggested either this one or the infocus 8600... dlp for sports, bright to overcome some ambient, "good deal" for what they cost, "fit" my room in terms of throw/positioning, etc.

i did some shopping, and i came across a demo vivitek on projector people for $1k off street price (and $1.5k less than the infocus), so i bought it...

i'll admit, i didn't really "research the hell out of" projectors... i've been reading about them for long enough though, and have a pretty decent idea of what was out there in my price range... i also didn't want to spend a ton on one, because i wanted to see what happens in the next 12-18 with led and/or 3d... i just wanted something that would handle motion well, and put out enough lumens for the job at hand...

i DID research the hell out of screens/rooms/etc. though... and thanks to a couple guys like rich, i was able to climb that learning curve really fast...

breakdown of costs...

- pj: $1799
- da-lite screen for experimenting: $200
- bd screen: $2650
- gom: $120
- stretcher bars: $80
- paint and painting materials: $150, give or take...
- miscellaneous crap: $100 or so...

figure another couple hundred or so for the pj mount kit, once i get around to ordering it... paint for the trim/baseboards, another $50... another order of gom for the rest of the panels, $120... center channel stand solution, $100... velvet and stretcher bars for front wall panels around the screen, $300... figure another $100 for random stuff...

that pretty much should complete "phase 1"... that gets me a "completed" project, i.e. everything is up and where it should be, the room has been "made over" to a point where the pj/screen is pretty happy with it, and it's livable... doing some quick math, "phase 1" comes in around $6000... that comes in $1500 under my proposed budget of $7500... not too bad... plus i sold the 111fd for $1800, so technically, i came out $3300 under budget...

after i get that stuff done, then we can move on to "phase 2", i.e. "better" lighting, resolve soffit/whatever idea, get things "more black" by making covers and so on...
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