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Who's converting to iRule remote control? - Page 2

post #31 of 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by LJG View Post

I am wondering if there is any way to integrate the Irule into an existing Landmark system using the existing AMX CF10 card frame/controller http://www.amx.com/products/PLB-CF10.asp

I know we have a few installers that integrated the iRule as the front end to control both AMX and Crestron. On our side, its actually pretty quick because the commands are well defined and are typically based on IP control or serial.
post #32 of 250
Wow that's great, is there a contact for my integrator over at Irule?
post #33 of 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by LJG View Post
Wow that's great, is there a contact for my integrator over at Irule?
That would likely be cubesys above.

His modest "we" probably wasn't clear enough to communicate that iRule is his and a friend's creation.
post #34 of 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmichaelf View Post
This looks to be one of the best uses of the iPad yet. Home automation people must be extremely concerned.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glimmie View Post
Nah, I doubt it. The type of people who buy those six figure Crestron and AMX systems aren't the type of people that will sit down and learn how to program Irule. That would seriously cut into country club and yacht sailing time!
You are probably correct in the short term, but I could see long term these two having to go up market even more as more people buying new systems look to options that are less expensive and less complex. As a side note, I was in a customer's house when some guys came in to fix a problem with their system. They kind of had a condescending laugh when they were done and collected their check. The lady was there already because of me, but if I wasn't there then she would have had to make time for them to come by. It seems like an unnecessary inconvenience along with the charge for a service call.

The biggest problem Irule faces is getting exposure. A/V companies don't have the huge margins with Irule as they do with Crestron and AMX. Heck, it isn't the customers of these companies that are at the country club. It is the employees of Crestron and AMX.
post #35 of 250
Thread Starter 
If I can replace my $4k RTI system and get equal look and function with a $49 app and a couple hundred dollars in caches, who'd buy RTI or Crestron? How's that for exposure?

What do you pay for a large dropped Crestron touch panel vs a $499 iPad??
post #36 of 250
Jeff that is some great exposure. Now, I want to see you fund Itai's Crestron size booth at Cedia.
post #37 of 250
Jeff I'll be watching your progress with interest.

I too have tons of money sunk into my RTI system. I love how it works but when I bought it I didn't fathom just how expensive it would ultimately be. Since I can't program it myself I've had to call the installer for every single little tweak or new component. It's literally cost me thousands in programming alone!

The idea of being able to do it myself is sooooo appealing in that regard, getting precisely what I want without paying every time. And I already have an iPad 2 and iPhone 4. I'm just not sure yet the iRule system can do everything my RTI system covers.

The other issue for me is the touch-screen interface concept itself. I keep getting attracted to the idea...that luscious graphic interface. But when it comes to actually using my remote I am thankful every time for the hard buttons. I operate it all the time without looking at the remote and I love the feel and ergonomics of the T2C.
I initially had a T3 remote which is mostly touchscreen and switched to the T2 for the additional hard buttons. So I'm afraid of falling for the aesthetics of the iPad as a remote but suffering in ergonomics.

As well there's the issue of simply lighting up the room with the remote, given my projection based system. The iPad is a large screen and I don't like the idea of the room lighting up every time I touch a command. I know you can do some darker screen backgrounds, but I don't know if they are dark enough.

Finally...what about the screen lock issue? I have to suppose there is some work around for that in the iRule software that keeps the screen from locking? What a pain it would be to always have to turn on and unlock the screen every time I just wanted to push a button.
post #38 of 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ericglo View Post
The biggest problem Irule faces is getting exposure. A/V companies don't have the huge margins with Irule as they do with Crestron and AMX. Heck, it isn't the customers of these companies that are at the country club. It is the employees of Crestron and AMX.
Its funny that you mention that, I can't tell you how many installers I talk to every week that are confused how they can make money with a product if it costs "so little money". I believe that installers can make a great living by adding value to the products they sell but it is an uphill battle to educate many established installers.
post #39 of 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post
Jeff I'll be watching your progress with interest.

I too have tons of money sunk into my RTI system. I love how it works but when I bought it I didn't fathom just how expensive it would ultimately be. Since I can't program it myself I've had to call the installer for every single little tweak or new component. It's literally cost me thousands in programming alone!

The idea of being able to do it myself is sooooo appealing in that regard, getting precisely what I want without paying every time. And I already have an iPad 2 and iPhone 4. I'm just not sure yet the iRule system can do everything my RTI system covers.

The other issue for me is the touch-screen interface concept itself. I keep getting attracted to the idea...that luscious graphic interface. But when it comes to actually using my remote I am thankful every time for the hard buttons. I operate it all the time without looking at the remote and I love the feel and ergonomics of the T2C.
I initially had a T3 remote which is mostly touchscreen and switched to the T2 for the additional hard buttons. So I'm afraid of falling for the aesthetics of the iPad as a remote but suffering in ergonomics.

As well there's the issue of simply lighting up the room with the remote, given my projection based system. The iPad is a large screen and I don't like the idea of the room lighting up every time I touch a command. I know you can do some darker screen backgrounds, but I don't know if they are dark enough.

Finally...what about the screen lock issue? I have to suppose there is some work around for that in the iRule software that keeps the screen from locking? What a pain it would be to always have to turn on and unlock the screen every time I just wanted to push a button.
As I posted above, I'm with you on that, I don't see how I could give up the hard buttons on my universal remote. Here's an idea that I have to solve this. What if someone took a basic, but well designed universal remote (perhaps like this: http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Logitech...&skuId=9939314), but a bluetooth chip in it, and built an app for it to sync with the Ipad. Then whatever you had set-up on the Ipad would be controlled by the remote (i.e., the handheld remote wouldn't be controlling anything directly). In that way, you could have quick control for volume, transport control, 5-way directional pad, numberical pad, etc, without always having to look at the Ipad.

I would be all for something like that, and I don't think it would be very hard to build.
post #40 of 250
I'm also driving myself mad trying to decide what to do !!

I've been a Pronto user for about 8 years, starting with the 3000 and then a 3500. About 12 months ago when I started on the (now epic saga) building of a new house I decided to stick with Pronto as I love the combo of touch screen and hard buttons, so I dropped a large chunk of change on one of the Pronto Pro 9600s. And of course about one month later Philips annouced it was dropping the entire Pronto range.

One of the most important things for me was to get back to one single control panel in the theatre, as for some years I've been using Windows Media Centre, with a wireless mouse and small LCD screen, to navigate my music collection. The new house has Sonos throughout including a feed into the theatre processor, so I wanted something that could also control Sonos. Sonos control is available on the Pronto and that also factored into my decision. I also intend to use the Pronto's two way capabilities. My integrator assures me that they will support the Pronto for many years, so I'm not overly concerned about that.

Now on the iRule side, I know I can get an iPad app for Sonos, and I assume it's not a problem to jump back and forth between iRule and the Sonos app; iRule is about to introduce two way, so that pretty much leaves me with no hard buttons as the only problem ... but I think that's a big one.

What to do ??? Oh ... the pain !!
post #41 of 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post

Jeff I'll be watching your progress with interest.

I too have tons of money sunk into my RTI system. I love how it works but when I bought it I didn't fathom just how expensive it would ultimately be. Since I can't program it myself I've had to call the installer for every single little tweak or new component. It's literally cost me thousands in programming alone!

Rich:

I am NOT trying to from going the iRule root BUT the RTI stuff is a breeze to program and I can help get you started as I have everything that you would need...I am in Toronto as well so we could easily arrange a time to meet...

I am NOT joking either as I mastered the RTI stuff in about 3 hours and did such a great job one of the CIs that is working with me of the physical install of my Crestron system said that there was nothing to tweak as it was as clean and as well thought out as anything he had seen...
post #42 of 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joelc View Post

Rich:

I am NOT trying to from going the iRule root BUT the RTI stuff is a breeze to program and I can help get you started as I have everything that you would need...I am in Toronto as well so we could easily arrange a time to meet...

I am NOT joking either as I mastered the RTI stuff in about 3 hours and did such a great job one of the CIs that is working with me of the physical install of my Crestron system said that there was nothing to tweak as it was as clean and as well thought out as anything he had seen...

Awesome. I think I'll be sending you a P.M.

Thanks!
post #43 of 250
Looks like for about $850 in startup cost you will get enough equipment (including the iPad) to run a standard 1 room theater system, not bad at all!
post #44 of 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post

Awesome. I think I'll be sending you a P.M.

Thanks!

No problem...and, so you know, I live in the Yonge / York Mills area...
post #45 of 250
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by the rick View Post

Looks like for about $850 in startup cost you will get enough equipment (including the iPad) to run a standard 1 room theater system, not bad at all!

I looked at it as $300 in start up costs as most everyone I know who likes electronics already has an iPad (or iPhone).

Very cool. Like SSPs and all else HT, remotes were bound to get better AND cheaper.

Regarding the hard buttons (or lack thereof). I too thought they were important for phone calls (e.g. Cell phones). Then I bought an iPhone and realized buttons were nice but not essential and you get so much more in the iPad interface that I'm controlling my systems fine with out them. Now most better cell phones are buttonless.
post #46 of 250
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joelc View Post

Rich:

I am NOT trying to from going the iRule root BUT the RTI stuff is a breeze to program and I can help get you started as I have everything that you would need...I am in Toronto as well so we could easily arrange a time to meet...

I am NOT joking either as I mastered the RTI stuff in about 3 hours and did such a great job one of the CIs that is working with me of the physical install of my Crestron system said that there was nothing to tweak as it was as clean and as well thought out as anything he had seen...

Joel, I'm using iRule to control my XP8. I generated IR trigger codes for my RTI macros within Int. Designer, copied and pasted them into iRule. This is a great way to transition from RTI to iRule as i rewrite my rti macros for iRule. Curious, rather than IR trigger codes, can ip or serial codes be generated to control the XP-8?

Thanks.
post #47 of 250
^^^

what do you use to send trigger codes to the XP-8?
post #48 of 250
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by markrubin View Post

^^^

what do you use to send trigger codes to the XP-8?

Hi Mark,

Physical Connection:
I am using the IR cache that I use for iRule. I take one IR output from the cache, connect an emitter to it and taped it to o the IR receiver that connects to my XP-8.

Getting RTI IR trigger codes to iRule:
I generated IR trigger codes via Integration Designer for all 60 of my macros. It does so in the XP-8 'File' menu ('Generate IR Triggers for T2+). Once generated, I openned up the new T2+, located the macro I wanted (they are numbered) and copied the button and pasted the IR trigger commands into the 'new remote' I generated in the IR Library (I call it RTI Triggers Remote). Once copied into the IR Library, I can then locate and copy the IR trigger in HEX and simply paste it into iRule. Then assign that macro to any button I want on my iRule page and that quickly, my XP-8 is controlled by iRule.
post #49 of 250
What kind of delays are we looking at to wake the iphone/ipad, connect to wifi and issue a command? I just can't see having to fiddle with that in the middle of a movie movie for a vol down or quick pasue. I've installed the directv app on our ipad, and thought it was awesome at first as well, but once the novelty of it wore off, find myself reaching for the RTI T1 99% of the time for any real control I want to do in the theater.

On another note, how does the 2 way from Irule work? I mean if I wanted to have two way communications between it and my HAI panel (like I do with my RTI XP8) how does the integration between the two work....is there a module or something similar that is configured, or does the user need to take care of all of the necessary programming between the two?
post #50 of 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter M View Post

I'm also driving myself mad trying to decide what to do !!

I've been a Pronto user for about 8 years, starting with the 3000 and then a 3500. About 12 months ago when I started on the (now epic saga) building of a new house I decided to stick with Pronto as I love the combo of touch screen and hard buttons, so I dropped a large chunk of change on one of the Pronto Pro 9600s. And of course about one month later Philips annouced it was dropping the entire Pronto range.

One of the most important things for me was to get back to one single control panel in the theatre, as for some years I've been using Windows Media Centre, with a wireless mouse and small LCD screen, to navigate my music collection. The new house has Sonos throughout including a feed into the theatre processor, so I wanted something that could also control Sonos. Sonos control is available on the Pronto and that also factored into my decision. I also intend to use the Pronto's two way capabilities. My integrator assures me that they will support the Pronto for many years, so I'm not overly concerned about that.

Now on the iRule side, I know I can get an iPad app for Sonos, and I assume it's not a problem to jump back and forth between iRule and the Sonos app; iRule is about to introduce two way, so that pretty much leaves me with no hard buttons as the only problem ... but I think that's a big one.

What to do ??? Oh ... the pain !!

While I can't create buttons on a device that does not have them (Steve Jobs is not listening to me just yet) we do offer the ability to use Gestures. Gestures allow you to map commands to finger swipes on the screen without looking. Since we can create multiple pages to control different devices with new Gestures this can be customized for different devices/activities.
post #51 of 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post
If I can replace my $4k RTI system and get equal look and function with a $49 app and a couple hundred dollars in caches, who'd buy RTI or Crestron? How's that for exposure?

What do you pay for a large dropped Crestron touch panel vs a $499 iPad??
While that would be nice to only pay $49.00. It isn't there yet. There aren't loops or nested commands. No flash animation.

So far this is too limited for my needs. I've been using custom flash with custom graphics on a UMPC for many years. Yes it costs more, but I can do A LOT more with it.

I encourage the progress of this program, but don't get your hopes up just yet. It's got a long way to go.
post #52 of 250
I just checked out bitwise....pretty cool
post #53 of 250
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim HTPC View Post
While that would be nice to only pay $49.00. It isn't there yet. There aren't loops or nested commands. No flash animation.

So far this is too limited for my needs. I've been using custom flash with custom graphics on a UMPC for many years. Yes it costs more, but I can do A LOT more with it.

I encourage the progress of this program, but don't get your hopes up just yet. It's got a long way to go.

What I am looking for (and I think most others are as well) is serial command reliability, 2way, complicated macros, great graphics and backgrounds, and integration into my iPad. Exactly what my RTI has... but less costly. I'm using my Macbook less and less since getting my ipad. It makes my Macbook Pro seem just too heavy and the iPad battery seems to have endless power. I have my ipad next to my bed to go over the papers in the morning and at the end of the day. Flipping channels and reading the news on one device is a treat. This is a lot of control for small change.

Moreover, my daughter is excited for me to program a custom remote tailored to her needs on her iPhone. So, she goes to the family room and rather than going for a cumbersome remote, gets out her phone (which is attached to her), opens iRule on her iphone, her favorite TV channel buttons load right up or Netflix control and she's off to the races. Same thing when she moves to the kitchen. She can still use a regular remote if she likes, but his is way cool.

I can see the add ons coming to iRule, but right now there is a lot there for the average user.
post #54 of 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim HTPC View Post

While that would be nice to only pay $49.00. It isn't there yet. There aren't loops or nested commands. No flash animation.

So far this is too limited for my needs. I've been using custom flash with custom graphics on a UMPC for many years. Yes it costs more, but I can do A LOT more with it.

I encourage the progress of this program, but don't get your hopes up just yet. It's got a long way to go.

Irule is currently just a macro launcher as you have correctly observed. Some of us on the master Irule thread are using Irule to send commands to an HT control server. This can then be programmed to do almost anything.

I would think you could do the same using Irule to control a Crestron or AMX like system too.
post #55 of 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glimmie View Post

Some of us on the master Irule thread are using Irule to send commands to an HT control server.

Can you give an example of a HT control server? Are you referring to a HTPC, or to something like a Crestron or AMX server?

I've thought about using a HTPC with a multi-port serial card instead of a Global Cache or dedicated port server, but was leery of the added complications of another device.

Thanks,
Ken
post #56 of 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glimmie View Post

Irule is currently just a macro launcher as you have correctly observed. Some of us on the master Irule thread are using Irule to send commands to an HT control server. This can then be programmed to do almost anything.

I would think you could do the same using Irule to control a Crestron or AMX like system too.

I love the iPad. Have one myself. It's too limited for me. Not when I stream video back to remote so that I can see what little Dylan is watching to make certain it is appropriate. Everything is locked down but you never know...kids are clever at getting around parental controls... Use to use a comb to hold push button analog ring in place to watch flawless HBO back in the day. Or used pulses on rotary phone to make phone calls even though the dial was locked. hehe. Or used a grapefruite knife to unlock the pantry door for unlimited cookies and ice cream in the middle of the night. Ahhh the memories.

I can see the iPAD taking off when it has flash with wi-fi control to RS-232 interface via TCP/IP. We'll see what happens.
post #57 of 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim HTPC View Post

I love the iPad. Have one myself. It's too limited for me. Not when I stream video back to remote so that I can see what little Dylan is watching to make certain it is appropriate. Everything is locked down but you never know...kids are clever at getting around parental controls... Use to use a comb to hold push button analog ring in place to watch flawless HBO back in the day. Or used pulses on rotary phone to make phone calls even though the dial was locked. hehe. Or used a grapefruite knife to unlock the pantry door for unlimited cookies and ice cream in the middle of the night. Ahhh the memories.

I can see the iPAD taking off when it has flash with wi-fi control to RS-232 interface via TCP/IP. We'll see what happens.

Don't forget dropping a nickel-as in the pay phones that would register two nickels=1 dime for a phone call, by timing the slamming of the phone to the single nickel drop.

I'm with you on this one. Ok Irule can play Hail To The Chief when your Muliner comes up the drive, but playing sequential defcons in your own voice, as the kids leave a light on in the hallway too long or have the TV on when they shouldn't or whatever-now that's Crestron parenting... Most here would want that sort of two way communication and logic capabilities, etc., etc..

Thank you very much

Fury
post #58 of 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Srgtfury View Post

Don't forget dropping a nickel-as in the pay phones that would register two nickels=1 dime for a phone call, by timing the slamming of the phone to the single nickel drop.

I'm with you on this one. Ok Irule can play Hail To The Chief when your Muliner comes up the drive, but playing sequential defcons in your own voice, as the kids leave a light on in the hallway too long or have the TV on when they shouldn't or whatever-now that's Crestron parenting... Most here would want that sort of two way communication and logic capabilities, etc., etc..

Thank you very much

Fury

How about cardboard quarter slugs that worked in gumball machines? Or using a straw that reached the quarter actuator inside a Donkey Kong (and Pac Man) Arcade machine for unlimited play. Or using resistance to figure out a briefcase combination lock, or using a nail file to open an old school fire proof lock boxes with a handle. Or getting free soda from the cooler style soda dispensing machines, where you could pop the can, drink the drink with a straw, collapse the can and pull it out. Or for the less crafty, turning the cooler upside down and shaking out the coins, just to it put back for a soda.

I'm surprised I didn't get into more trouble than I did as a kid. I've got the house on lock-down... no more guessing who pushed Suzy or Dylan first. It's all on video/audio. Dad appears to be mystical when it comes to figuring out who started what.

When a program allows me to have total control with programming ability (don't mean put icon here, now assign RS-232 command). I mean real programming with nested loops, counters, variables, then I would be the first to jump in line to beta test. Already been using Global Cache TCP to RS-232 for over 6 years now. Here's to wishful thinking.
post #59 of 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim HTPC View Post

While that would be nice to only pay $49.00. It isn't there yet. There aren't loops or nested commands. No flash animation.

So far this is too limited for my needs. I've been using custom flash with custom graphics on a UMPC for many years. Yes it costs more, but I can do A LOT more with it.

I encourage the progress of this program, but don't get your hopes up just yet. It's got a long way to go.

What is so great about flash animation on a remote and why is it important?
post #60 of 250
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ericglo View Post

What is so great about flash animation on a remote and why is it important?

I don't think iRule is trying to compete with that. It's simple. The iPad is a great new device that does so much, so why not control your gear with serial and/or IR commands while flipping channels in any room of the house! Of course you can do lights, music, and soon get feedback. For $49 and $200-$300 for a cache or two, it's a great adjunct to the iPad - for cheap!
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