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Curious as to the difference between Paradigm Studio & Signature series

post #1 of 37
Thread Starter 
I'm about to pull the trigger on a pair Studio 100s (wanted the 60s, but soon I will no longer be able to hook up my sub so I better go with the 100s).
Anyway, seeing and hearing both the studios and Signatures in person, I am curious as to what is the difference between say the Paradigm Studio 100s vs the Signature S6 aside from the number of drivers and the fact that the Signatures are double the price. I've read that the drivers are supposedly different, but in looking at the specs and hearing I don't see any difference in performance or anything else along those lines for that matter. The dealer told me it's the drivers and the bracing, but I never listen to anything a dealer says.

Is it the bracing? If so, why wouldn't they do the same bracing in the whole upper line of their speakers?
Is one (the Studios) MDF and the other (Signature) real wood?
What I guess I am asking is what justifies the huge price difference in what seems to be nearly identical speakers?
post #2 of 37
When it comes to speakers, it is diminishing returns as far as price jump in next line in a series. I know it one difference is the tweeter between the two. But it always boils down to what your ears hear. Some people here say how much difference they hear between the Sigs and the Studios. Some people say the Sigs are less fatiguing on the ears than the Studios. Some people say the Studios sound just as good as the Sigs.

Both are well made speakers and Paradigm is known for quality even in their lowest lines. At the end of the day, it boils down to what your ears think and if that justifies the price difference.
post #3 of 37
there's a huge difference in the quality of the drivers especially the tweeter which is using exotic Beryllium alloy vs the Aluminum one. The midrange and woofer drivers have their most advanced features which will ultimately give you a more accurate, more detailed sound.

As for construction:
The S6 is a 70 lb speaker which is almost as heavy as the 78lb S100 but it's a much smaller speaker with fewer drivers, which by itself that indicates that the cabinet and drivers are of a more heavy duty build (more bracing, heavy duty magnets etc). This means the speaker will likely play with less distortion and offer better sound at all volumes.

You should be able to hear a difference in sound quality just listening. If not, then don't sweat it, just enjoy the 100's.
post #4 of 37
Real wood should never be used in speakers. Speakers made with real wood would sound absolutely horrible due to resonances. Bracing is the internal pieces to make the overall enclosure more inert and maybe the thickness of the MDF used. The dealer was right in that the drivers are different. Aluminum dome tweeters are much cheaper than Beryllium dome tweeters. You'd have to listen for yourself to decide if you could tell the difference though.
post #5 of 37
Thread Starter 
Thanks. All interesting points. To my ears anyway, I found the 100s to be very detailed and even equal to a pair of B&W Nautilus in sound.
From what I can recall the Sigs were detailed as well, in fact I could barely tell the difference except in the highs, but it wasn't much difference and I had to strain to hear it. I listened to the 100s for a solid hour and did not find them fatiging at all, same with the sigs except that I listened to them for only a half hour knowing I couldn't afford them in any way, but I'm sure they would not have proven any less or any more fatiging. I was just curious.
When factoring in the diminishing returns I figured any attempt to get into a $6000 pair of speakers just because of some exotic substance (not that there is anything wrong with any of it), would prove to be null or pointless to me.
post #6 of 37
Was all this listening done in the same room and level matched?
post #7 of 37
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cschang View Post

Was all this listening done in the same room and level matched?

Absolutely and with the same media selections (my own).
post #8 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anubisrocks View Post

I'm about to pull the trigger on a pair Studio 100s (wanted the 60s, but soon I will no longer be able to hook up my sub so I better go with the 100s).

Why can't you hook up your sub?
post #9 of 37
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulpa View Post
Why can't you hook up your sub?
I have it hooked up now of course as I am in a single family residence. However I will be moving in a few months to most likely a Townhouse/Condo situation and in most cases subs are not allowed due to common walls and all.
I don't play loud, but subs are subs and as you know with them you feel more than hear.
post #10 of 37
I live in a condo and run a paradigm dsp-3400 and don't get any complaints. It is beside a shared wall. I always have audyssey dynamic volume @ light though as to be able to keep the level well below reference. I actually enjoy it real low late at night because the bass sounds very cool at low volumes.
post #11 of 37
Diminishing returns is right; the Studios have really been upgraded over the years and I've heard they are almost as good as Signature v1s.

Also it costs twice possibly due to anticipation of lower sales; the increase in per unit cost is likely not as steep as the price increase would indicate.
post #12 of 37
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mpray1983 View Post
I live in a condo and run a paradigm dsp-3400 and don't get any complaints. It is beside a shared wall. I always have audyssey dynamic volume @ light though as to be able to keep the level well below reference. I actually enjoy it real low late at night because the bass sounds very cool at low volumes.
Really? I love real low late at night volume with the bass, yes very cool. Hmm, I should try that with my current set up and see how it works. If it works well, I may be able to get away with getting the Studio 60s instead for about $1000 less than the 100s. Something to consider.
post #13 of 37
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by astrallite View Post
Diminishing returns is right; the Studios have really been upgraded over the years and I've heard they are almost as good as Signature v1s.

Also it costs twice possibly due to anticipation of lower sales; the increase in per unit cost is likely not as steep as the price increase would indicate.
Hadn't thought of that, good point.
post #14 of 37
Take them home...if your spending that much I'm sure the store will have no problem letting you borrow them for a day or two. What kind of speakers are you running currently?
post #15 of 37
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mpray1983 View Post
Take them home...if your spending that much I'm sure the store will have no problem letting you borrow them for a day or two. What kind of speakers are you running currently?
The only two stores in my area that carry Paradigms do not allow "borrowing". I had to evaluate based on educated calculations with my fingers crossed, but I'm sure I can't go too far wrong with the Studios.

Currently, believe it or not, I'm using 1985 Kenwood JL-690s that cost me $85/pr back then! I have an HSU VTF-1 sub. I was thinking of just trying your suggestion with what I have right now.
post #16 of 37
I'm looking at studio 60's as well. I would like to get two hsu vtf-3's. Right now I have focal sib xl's w/ a paradigm dsp-3400. As for your kenwoods...I have no idea what they are...I was two when you bought them
post #17 of 37
Audyssey dynamic volume is a lifesaver in appt/condos
post #18 of 37
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mpray1983 View Post
I'm looking at studio 60's as well. I would like to get two hsu vtf-3's. Right now I have focal sib xl's w/ a paradigm dsp-3400. As for your kenwoods...I have no idea what they are...I was two when you bought them
LOL! OMG I'm old!
Anyway, yeah, when my Polk Studio Monitor 7s hooked up to my 35 wpc Marantz 2238b sounded better then my Kenwoods hooked up to my 100 wpc Onkyo TR-S705 I knew I had been missing something for years. So one day I went out and found a "high-end" shop with some B&W 8s and heard them and was shocked at what I was missing, that started my 3 month adventure in researching and demoing speakers finally settling on the Paradigm Studio 60s at first, but then with the coming changes switched to the 100s (while holding my breath and gripping my wallet). I have to admit the 100s have a slight, but noticable edge over the 60s, however both are fabulous speakers and equally detailed.
(I'm not crazy about the looks especially in the black ash as it makes them look like cheap Best Buy specials, but performance is more important. They look best in Cherry, but that's $400 more! My entertainment center is black as are my CD cabinets and the sofa is dark brown so while black ash would match all that I am leaning more towards the rosenut finish as it is the second best looking option and doesn't cost extra).
post #19 of 37
I demoed the dsp-3400 in the oak finish?? And I thought it was ugly and tacky. I have the black ash and your right about it looking like a best buy special. I agree that the cherry would look amazing as a complete set. Have you decided on a center or surrounds yet...I love the look of the cc-690 and those dipole surrounds.
post #20 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anubisrocks View Post
LOL! OMG I'm old!
Anyway, yeah, when my Polk Studio Monitor 7s hooked up to my 35 wpc Marantz 2238b sounded better then my Kenwoods hooked up to my 100 wpc Onkyo TR-S705 I knew I had been missing something for years. So one day I went out and found a "high-end" shop with some B&W 8s and heard them and was shocked at what I was missing, that started my 3 month adventure in researching and demoing speakers finally settling on the Paradigm Studio 60s at first, but then with the coming changes switched to the 100s (while holding my breath and gripping my wallet). I have to admit the 100s have a slight, but noticable edge over the 60s, however both are fabulous speakers and equally detailed.
(I'm not crazy about the looks especially in the black ash as it makes them look like cheap Best Buy specials, but performance is more important. They look best in Cherry, but that's $400 more! My entertainment center is black as are my CD cabinets and the sofa is dark brown so while black ash would match all that I am leaning more towards the rosenut finish as it is the second best looking option and doesn't cost extra).
Cherry finish costs extra in the Studio series? I didn't know that. I thought maybe the gloss black would cost more, but not the cherry. Are you sure about that?
post #21 of 37
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by beaveav View Post

Cherry finish costs extra in the Studio series? I didn't know that. I thought maybe the gloss black would cost more, but not the cherry. Are you sure about that?

Yes, they call it Piano finish for the gloss black. Yes, absolutely certain that the cherry and piano black cost extra. The only non extra choice is black ash or rosenut.
post #22 of 37
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mpray1983 View Post

I demoed the dsp-3400 in the oak finish?? And I thought it was ugly and tacky. I have the black ash and your right about it looking like a best buy special. I agree that the cherry would look amazing as a complete set. Have you decided on a center or surrounds yet...I love the look of the cc-690 and those dipole surrounds.

Right now I'm using cheapo $30/pr small two-ways for surrounds I picked up from said BB 12 years ago. I'll think about changing them out last as they are not that important as almost any small speakers will do for delay.
For the center which I will get later I'm looking at the smallest of the Studio series or something from the line below that. I don't have room for a huge center nor do I want to spend $1000 on a center. I'm 20% HT and 80% music so no need to go wild on the center. Currently I am using a Polk CS-1. I don't like it much though and will be swapping it out as soon as I can.
post #23 of 37
The more expensive the speaker, the more likely you are paying for exotic technologies or build quality that give you dimishing returns on actual perceivable performance.

The Signatures are great speakers mainly due to their tweeter, and the fact that you could hear the difference in highs does show it does make a difference. Very often, a company will use their best engineering technology in their top end line--price no object product line, and then when they build their middle end, or low end line, they choose to omit some of their best tech to keep the price affordable. So instead of using top end materials, they choose a slightly cheaper design or build quality. In the end, the consumer still benefits from their engineering know-how that went into their top end models, and the actual performance drop may not be very noticeable. The Studio line is a good value because it shares a lot in common with the Sig line but lacks the Be tweeter. The Monitor line is built much more as a budget product and it shows
post #24 of 37
Do you have any hearing loss associated with aging? If you can’t hear a difference between the Studio 100’s and Signature S6’s then perhaps it's best to save your money, and choose the cheaper ones. I bought all Signature speakers, because I wanted to enjoy them while I was old enough to afford them, but young enough to still hear them. As we age we lose the ability to hear the high frequencies first, so a geriactric person probably can’t tell the difference.

This discussion made me recall the lyrics to the 1993 Porno For Pyros song Cursed Male:

Quote:


All the guys
That really have the money
Are too old
To have a good time with it

All the guys
That really have the money
Are too old
To have a good time with it

Too old to turn the women on
Too old to have a fast car and drive it

All the guys
That really have the money
Are too old
To have a good time with it

All the guys
That really have the money
Are too old
To party or get dirty

Too old to turn the women on
Too old to have a fast car and drive it
post #25 of 37
Personally, I would buy the smaller fronts and probably spend the $1000 on the proper center (if it costs $1k or not, you should always have the proper center IMO)
post #26 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbfleming View Post

Do you have any hearing loss associated with aging? If you can’t hear a difference between the Studio 100’s and Signature S6’s then perhaps it's best to save your money, and choose the cheaper ones.

The benefits of the superior tweeter start at the crossover point to the tweeter, well within the range of normal hearing, even for the elderly.

The effects of high frequency hearing loss in audio enthusiasts is overstated. What percentage of the music we hear is over the 10k range? Not very much.

Attachment 211075
LL
post #27 of 37
Quote:


...I have an HSU VTF-1 sub...

Why not keep the sub and block/filter out the lows (for "Townhouse/Condo situation"), buy sig bookshelfs or save the money with studio 20?
post #28 of 37
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by warpdrive View Post

The more expensive the speaker, the more likely you are paying for exotic technologies or build quality that give you dimishing returns on actual perceivable performance.

The Signatures are great speakers mainly due to their tweeter, and the fact that you could hear the difference in highs does show it does make a difference. Very often, a company will use their best engineering technology in their top end line--price no object product line, and then when they build their middle end, or low end line, they choose to omit some of their best tech to keep the price affordable. So instead of using top end materials, they choose a slightly cheaper design or build quality. In the end, the consumer still benefits from their engineering know-how that went into their top end models, and the actual performance drop may not be very noticeable. The Studio line is a good value because it shares a lot in common with the Sig line but lacks the Be tweeter. The Monitor line is built much more as a budget product and it shows

While true that I could hear a difference it was subtle and I needed to strain to detect it.
What you say in the first paragraph is what I have been saying all along while researching for speakers. You should have heard the arguments against it....crazy nonsense.
I think the point is proven with the studio line vs the sig line. They are so close in almost all respects, you have to go out of your way to tell them apart. Money doesn't always buy cost effective quality. Worth paying double the price of the studios for a Be platonium tweeter thingy?..No. (Not saying the Sigs are bad or a waste, certainly not, but for the many of us without monthly disposable income or huge inheritance or what have you, the studios are not a comprimise at all and more cost effective).
post #29 of 37
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbfleming View Post

Do you have any hearing loss associated with aging? If you can't hear a difference between the Studio 100's and Signature S6's then perhaps it's best to save your money, and choose the cheaper ones. I bought all Signature speakers, because I wanted to enjoy them while I was old enough to afford them, but young enough to still hear them. As we age we lose the ability to hear the high frequencies first, so a geriactric person probably can't tell the difference.

This discussion made me recall the lyrics to the 1993 Porno For Pyros song Cursed Male:

Not old enough to have hearing loss yet. I have trained ears as well so I was able to hear the difference, but as I said, it was so subtle and pretty much only in the highs that I did have to concentrate a bit extra.
Nothing wrong with the Sigs even if they are double the price. If you can afford them, get them. The Studios are not "cheaper" except in cost. Performance-wise they are very close to the Sigs.
post #30 of 37
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lubmar View Post

Why not keep the sub and block/filter out the lows (for "Townhouse/Condo situation"), buy sig bookshelfs or save the money with studio 20?

I've tried a lot of bookshelves including the sigs and the 20s and I didn't care for them. I don't like having to rely on a sub 100% of the time.
Definitely keeping the sub. One doesn't spend a fortune (to me anyway) on a high-end sub to give it away a year later.
Looking into the block filter thing as well as another suggestion of merely tweeking the set up so as to change the activation threshold.
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