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Let's set this straight - No one can do 24p consistently well - Page 37

post #1081 of 1281
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

Why is 24p seen as such a huge issue ?
Three times this week I have read in other threads where people have stated they want to stay away from HTPC because it can not do 24p properly.
I think this whole thing is getting blow out of proportion.

I think if you read this thread you would have a good idea of why 24P is a big deal to some people.
post #1082 of 1281
Because using anything else produces jitter and stuttery playback - how do you watch your movies?

I'm happy with anything close to 23.976 for playback - 50 or 60hz for me is just unwatchable, unless of course the file is encoded to 25 or 50hz (PAL).
post #1083 of 1281
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

Why is 24p seen as such a huge issue ?
Three times this week I have read in other threads where people have stated they want to stay away from HTPC because it can not do 24p properly.
I think this whole thing is getting blow out of proportion.

Funny think is that the assumption that CE devices always handle it properly is unfounded. The gap is that it's easy to measure on a PC and relatively hard to do so on other devices.
post #1084 of 1281
Quote:
Originally Posted by steelman1991 View Post

Because using anything else produces jitter and stuttery playback - how do you watch your movies?
I'm happy with anything close to 23.976 for playback - 50 or 60hz for me is just unwatchable, unless of course the file is encoded to 25 or 50hz (PAL).

To me stock graphics from either Intel or an aftermarket video card are perfectly acceptable to me. It looks and sounds great on my theater system. (Optoma DLP projector + Denon AVR3312 AVR + Polk Speakers)

I have tried both bluray player (samsung brand) and HTPC for the same movie and it looks exactly the same to me. I have 3570k with integrated intel HD4000.

My desktop has dual 6870 X2's, on 2600k CPU. I can run Madvr, SVP and whatever I want at max settings. I can't say I seem much difference with the video cards, or the processing vs the stock HTPC.

I am sure it exists but to me it's not a problem.

My entire system works great. I have never bothered going for more. I actually have a video card new in the box in the basement ready to go in if I needed. Never bothered.

I can't say I see any stutter or jitter your talking about.



Here is specifically what I do:

MAKEMKV the bluray to my media server. (gigabit connected wired)
Play it either WMC (Shark007) or VLC player. HDMI to AVR. AVR to projector video only.

It's really quite excellent. Acceptable to 99% of people out there is my guess.

I used to be a perfectionist too. That's how I started here at AVS 10+ years ago.

But I have learned to relax a bit.
post #1085 of 1281
Quote:
Originally Posted by babgvant View Post

Funny think is that the assumption that CE devices always handle it properly is unfounded. The gap is that it's easy to measure on a PC and relatively hard to do so on other devices.

This is basically the point I was making.

I think if there was no threads or knowledge about it majority of people would never realize it exists.

Your only going to notice it if your watching for the quality of the picture and sound- and not for the enjoyment of relaxing or watching a movie.

It's a different type of person. A person who cares more how the movie looks than if it's a good movie, or what it is about is the only type of person that cares about that.
post #1086 of 1281
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

I think if there was no threads or knowledge about it majority of people would never realize it exists.
Your only going to notice it if your watching for the quality of the picture and sound- and not for the enjoyment of relaxing or watching a movie.
It's a different type of person. A person who cares more how the movie looks than if it's a good movie, or what it is about is the only type of person that cares about that.

I disagree with that. Glitches, frame drops, A/V sync issues, etc. impair immersion (and therefore enjoyment) during content consumption. Sure it's easier to forgive them the better the content, but this isn't a chicken/egg thing.
post #1087 of 1281
Quote:
Originally Posted by babgvant View Post

I disagree with that. Glitches, frame drops, A/V sync issues, etc. impair immersion (and therefore enjoyment) during content consumption. Sure it's easier to forgive them the better the content, but this isn't a chicken/egg thing.

+1
post #1088 of 1281
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

Why is 24p seen as such a huge issue ?
Three times this week I have read in other threads where people have stated they want to stay away from HTPC because it can not do 24p properly.
I think this whole thing is getting blow out of proportion.

Some people are just more sensitive to it than others. It's as simple as that. I notice occasional frame skips when using OpenELEC, but I've sort of gotten use to it. I would prefer if it played everything back from perfectly of course.
post #1089 of 1281
hello, i bought a gtx 660 ti for my pc and personalized the custom resolution like renethx did, but i am just getting 23.9767hz and a frame drop at 11 minutes, that setup is just for gt430?
EDIT: before i buy the video card i was using hd graphics 4000 and having a frame drop every 2 minutes, now i noticed that i am getting a repeated frame every 1.2 hour. should i do any other configuration on nvidia panel? how can i take a print screen of mpc in full screen and madvr statistics showing?
Edited by leandronb - 12/22/12 at 1:15pm
post #1090 of 1281
Quote:
Originally Posted by leandronb View Post

now i noticed that i am getting a repeated frame every 1.2 hour. should i do any other configuration on nvidia panel? how can i take a print screen of mpc in full screen and madvr statistics showing?
That means you are getting a single frame repeated in the middle of a 2 hour movie and it lasts for ~1/24 of a second. Have you noticed it while watching a movie and does it bother you enough to mess with your configuration more to try to eliminate it? If not, forget further tweaking and enjoy your movies.
post #1091 of 1281
Quote:
Originally Posted by vladd View Post

That means you are getting a single frame repeated in the middle of a 2 hour movie and it lasts for ~1/24 of a second. Have you noticed it while watching a movie and does it bother you enough to mess with your configuration more to try to eliminate it? If not, forget further tweaking and enjoy your movies.

good advice
post #1092 of 1281
HTPC does 23.976fps just fine. Where has it been said that it can't so don't use it? I cannot even get frame rate stats from my BRP so I have no idea how well it does it.
post #1093 of 1281
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

HTPC does 23.976fps just fine. Where has it been said that it can't

Um, the original post in this thread?
post #1094 of 1281
I understand that and mine does 23.9758 or something with dropped frames on orders of many hours. The point remains that I cannot even get feedback from my BRP to see what frame rate it is producing but I've seen content that it cannot handle from time to time too.
post #1095 of 1281
Quote:
Originally Posted by vladd View Post

That means you are getting a single frame repeated in the middle of a 2 hour movie and it lasts for ~1/24 of a second. Have you noticed it while watching a movie and does it bother you enough to mess with your configuration more to try to eliminate it? If not, forget further tweaking and enjoy your movies.
i watched 2 movies today and the frequency was at 23.97685hz, i didnt noticed any dropped frames but at the end of the last movie i watched i remembered to press ctrl+j and was saying that 3 frames are dropped, like you said is better to enjoy the movie and forget about that so little number of dropped frames. but is better now that i discovered to watch movies ate 24p, before i was watching all of them with 3:2 pulldown and now when i try to watch any movie at 3:2 like in someone else house it bothers me so much. thanks
post #1096 of 1281
What about movies at 24fps instead 23.976? When i open a 24 FPS file, madvr says that every 40seconds is a frame dropped, how can i correct this?
post #1097 of 1281
Quote:
Originally Posted by leandronb View Post

What about movies at 24fps instead 23.976? When i open a 24 FPS file, madvr says that every 40seconds is a frame dropped, how can i correct this?

go to madvr display properites and add 1080p24, otherwise it is trying to play a 24hz movie at 23.976 which is why there are frame drops. at least, that's' how it worked when I tested it on my pc.
post #1098 of 1281
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaibrok View Post

go to madvr display properites and add 1080p24, otherwise it is trying to play a 24hz movie at 23.976 which is why there are frame drops. at least, that's' how it worked when I tested it on my pc.
i tried to do this but it still plays 24fps file as 23.976, i tried to set custom resolution to 23hz and other to 24hz to diferentiate the frequencies, but when i did this madvr set the screen resolution to 48hz for both 24fps and 23.976. here is my configs:



are these config right?
post #1099 of 1281
After all this time, do Pcs still experience the described 24p problem??? or the new gfx cards solved this issue? (ATI or NVIDIA)...
post #1100 of 1281
Hey everyone!

A new HTPC-build is coming up for me with a Streacom FC5 Evo (Passive) chassis but I simply can't decide between:
AMD A10-5700 (65W TDP)
Intel i3 3225 (55W TDP)

I understand that AMD get "closer" to a perfect 23.967 playback and I honestly do not need the extra CPU power from Intel. My HTPC is mainly for 1080p playback and some browsing.

What would you suggest? I'm afraid that the A10-5700 will be too hot in the Streacom chassi as the maximun TDP for the chassi is 65W.

Thank you very much!

PS. I'm using a 50" Panasonic ST50 Plasma for playback if that matters.
Edited by Xophile - 2/14/13 at 11:50pm
post #1101 of 1281
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xophile View Post

My HTPC is mainly for 1080p playback and some browsing.

Then Celeron G1610 or A6-5400K (supporting BR 3D in frame packing output) is enough.
post #1102 of 1281
renethx

Thank you for a quick reply!

Any recommendations regarding the 23.926 issue, AMD vs i3?
post #1103 of 1281
There is no such issue as repeatedly stated in this thread. Just AMD's 23Hz is closer to 24Hz/1.001 than Intel's.
post #1104 of 1281
renethx:

Thanks again for your time - I really appreciate it.

So you are saying buying an i3 3225 over an AMD A10-5700 will not get me "visible" frame drops etc?

Positives for Intel i3 3225:
Lower TDP (55W vs 65W)
Better CPU

Cons Intel:
Slower GPU (I will mot game on my HTPC)
HD4000 worse at 23,657 than AMD A10-5700.

Anything I miss here?
post #1105 of 1281
Frame drop is visible to some people, but not to everybody. During the playback of a 2-hour movie at "23Hz" desktop refresh rate,

- Intel : ~30 dropped frames
- AMD: A few dropped frames

If you are sure your eyes are keen enough to see frame drops, you'd better go with AMD.
Edited by renethx - 2/15/13 at 8:59am
post #1106 of 1281
If you use ReClock or JRiver's VideoClock, your timings really don't matter. Don't pick your hardware based on what might achieve closer to 23.976
The original framerate is 24.000 anyway, 23.976 only exists for legacy compatibility with 59.94 in NTSC regions, and ReClock/VideoClock should both be capable of adjusting your video to that rate.
post #1107 of 1281
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chronoptimist View Post

If you use ReClock or JRiver's VideoClock, your timings really don't matter. Don't pick your hardware based on what might achieve closer to 23.976
The original framerate is 24.000 anyway, 23.976 only exists for legacy compatibility with 59.94 in NTSC regions, and ReClock/VideoClock should both be capable of adjusting your video to that rate.

@Xophile (not @Chronoptimist, you must know the subject very well. smile.gif)

Yes, that's a solution. But apparently the majority people prefer HD audio bitstreaming with a graphics card supporting a refresh rate as close to 24/(1.001)Hz as possible (very simple) to configuring ReClock (or VideoClock included in JRiver Media Center), decoding every compressed audio stream to LPCM (you will need ArcSoft dtsdecoderdll.dll to decode DTS-HD), then resampling it (not so simple, at least to novices)

"Original" has two meanings. The "original" film is shot at 24.000 fps. But this has nothing to do with video playback in PC/CE devices at all. wink.gif When encoded in DVD / BD, the frame rate is slowed down by the factor 1/(1.001). So the "original" framerate of media is 24fps/(1.001) = ~23.976fps. (There are some [not so many, say, 5% of all BD movies] European BDs encoded at 24.000fps, however.) It is exactly the media playback rate of 23.976fps that matters in video playback in PC, i.e. the graphics card's 23Hz needs to be close to 23.976Hz to reduce frame drops to a minimum. If you choose to use ReClock/VideoClock, however, the graphics card's refresh rate can be either 23Hz or 24Hz and it does not matter how close it is to 23.976Hz or 24.000Hz because the media playback rate / audio clock rate are adjusted to whatever video clock rate is.

My personal recommendation is: AMD graphics if you really care about precise 24Hz/(1.001), HD audio bitstreaming, no ReClock with media adaptation+decoding every audio stream to LPCM. That's plain simple, works right out of the box.
Edited by renethx - 2/16/13 at 7:12am
post #1108 of 1281
AMD graphics? I thought nVidia let you get closer to 23.976fps?
post #1109 of 1281
Yup, NVIDIA with custom resolution is another choice (that will mess up 3D 23Hz, however, and you will need to hack the registry to get full-range RGB). AMD is simpler and works right out of the box.
post #1110 of 1281
I know this but I don't really care about 3D and my colors really look pretty good with my GT 430 that was the recommended card back in June 2012.. I am not sure if I need the hack at all because it looks fantastic but I might give it a whirl.
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