Let's set this straight - No one can do 24p consistently well - Page 17

You are perhaps right and that's why I don't recommend 29Hz refresh rate (perhaps nobody knows exactly what happens in PC). Last time I tested, I observed bizzare results when outputting video-based interlaced contents at 29Hz, that led me to believe deinterlacing was done twice (in PC and in the display).

Update

In my AMD Llano system, I tried 1080i 29Hz desktop refresh rate and ran several 1080 (film, video) interlaced contents. It looks like PC outputs video as it should do and the display deinterlaces it correctly. 480i 29Hz is not supported in my display and in this case upscaling to 1080 without deinterlacing first resulted in bad PQ.

In any case, progressive output (and switching between 23Hz, 24Hz, 50Hz, 59Hz, 60Hz depending on the content) is almost always better than interlaced output for reasons.

I have an old Matrox G400 AGP video card that can output interlaced video, but unfortunately not at 1080i resolution. It works for 576i or 480i though, and you can even make a custom cable for VGA to RGB SCART - that was cutting edge HTPC stuff about 10 years ago.

So the PC is set to output to 23.976 and I run reclock. Now I play some video content (29.x). How does reclock change the PC's video frame rate? I was under the impression that TMT5's switcher changed the video driver properties. Does reclock? How does it "know" what framerate to use?

I think that is a poor metric to measure the problem. A better way to look at, IMHO, is when a frame is supposed to be displayed for 41.7ms, but really is displayed for 83.4ms, which is nearly a tenth of a second. Well, it depends on whether you are talking about duplicate frames or dropped frames, if you are a little above or below 23.976. With dropped frames, the action jumps ahead an extra 41.7ms.

That is definitely within the realm of what the human eye can perceive, but depending on what is happening at that particular moment in the movie, you may not notice it.

"1 frame drop in 7200 frames" just refers to the frequency of the problem, and not how noticeable the problem is when it happens.

Some people notice it more than others, but it bugged me enough to throw in a 6450 in my HTPC.

Many TV shows on DVD that I watch are properly flagged for 23.976, but one example where it isn't mastered correctly is Criminal Minds season 3. Manually specifying the video stream as 23.976 in ReClock Properties doesn't help this one. (Some of the other seasons of Criminal Minds work fine at 23.976.)

TMT's auto refresh rate change is poorly implemented right now. ReClock detects the frame rate of the video stream and an external program such as SetDisplayFrequency (in AnyDVD) or Display Changer (12noon) switches the desktop refresh rate to it. Search in this forum with keywords "ReClock" and "VBScript".

Thank you. Will these work behind the scenes with WMC playing MyMovies, and using TMT or WMC as the player? I'm fuzzy on their interrelationship.

ReClock VBScript generally works well with TMT and PowerDVD. (Some players don't like refresh rate change after the filter graph is built.)

Just check EVR CP stats for 1080i29 on 29 and you'll see half of frames dropped. As for me thats a good enough reason to use 59 (60 with ReClock) for 1080i29.

That's a problem of EVR CP (that forces deinterlacing in PC?). Try EVR and you will see that an interlaced content is output as it should be at 29Hz and your display does deinterlacing, video-mode or film-mode.

Anyway I don't recommend 29Hz (not only because there is no reason to do so but it could add more complications).

IMO EVR CP forces DXVA and video driver "forces" deinterlacing if needed according to its setting.

So you think that EVR means no deinterlacing? Or it depends on dysplay refrash rate somehow?

EVR + 25Hz/29Hz/30Hz = no deinterlacing in PC + interlaced video output. The result is independent of the decoder (I tried Microsoft DTV-DVD Video Decoder and ffmpeg video decoder).

Is there anything weird or contrary to your experience with vanilla EVR + 25Hz/29Hz/30Hz?

The problem with interlaced video output is that its quite easy to mess up the field sequence.
If for some reason one field gets dropped in the renderer, you might end up with an reversed field order, or if the file is just another field order then your TV expects, its rather unlikely for the GPU to re-order it.

Not to mention that any competent GPU can probably do better deinterlacing then your TV.

It's up to the display's post-processor. Personally I see no reason to output interlaced video (I don't own Lumagen ).

Speaking of switching refresh rates, I am just now gettng back into fussing with my Hauppauge! HVR-2250 tuner card with QAM this time and set my refresh rate to 60i using Intel Graphics management for smooth playback. Then I went into MB/MPC-HC and it reset my display to 24Hz as my Samsung told me and I went back into Intel Graphics and sure enough it was showing 23Hz. Going back into Live TV on WMC it did not switch back to 60i though.

Is this what reclock is for?

Does reclock work without having a discrete graphics card?

If I'm ever going to use the TV tuner (may upgrade to Ceton or SDHDHR- Prime) I need automatic swithching as not only is it a pain t manually switch, it sets the WAF to 0.000!

BTW, I'm using VMR-9 and LAV in MPC-HC, if that matters at all.

Are you really setting the refresh rate to 60i, instead of more popular 60p? "60i" appears only in the latest Intel driver 8.15.10.2653, it's 30Hz in older drivers. I am asking this because switching between 23p Hz and 59i Hz is difficult with SetDisplayFrequency.exe.

I'm not at home at present but I'm pretty sure I set it to 60Hz, but maybe that is 60p. I updated the intel driver about a month or so ago to the latest one (at the time, maybe 2622?) and don't know if there's a later one out now or not.

Can't say, I just use EVR CP (16fp or even intager) in D3D mode + 50/60Hz to get highest possible result with interlaced content. 5450 is too weak.

Good.

For those of you running the newer NVIDIA 301.24 beta drivers, use MPC-HC, and MadVR - you might want to try the new Adaptive Vsync setting:



I was struggling to avoid presentation glitches and then inspiration hit me!

I use exclusive mode as well. These are the relevant madvr settings I use:





I hope someone can duplicate my results - I'd hate it if it was a fluke!

(Be sure to note that I cannot tell madvr to use a separate device for presentation - this causes a black screen with the new drivers!)

One odd thing I found with the above settings - the clock deviation reported by MadVR goes almost to zero, and the display rate also becomes much more stable. My custom rez suddenly hit 59.940 almost 100% of the time, when before it would be just under, at 59.9395 or so. I hope this isn't all an illusion!

More observations (which I hope you guys can duplicate): The reported rendering times reported by madvr are MUCH lower than before. For my test 23.976 720p video, they dropped from around 12-15 ms to 5 ms!

Also it seems the adaptive vsync might work in windowed mode from a quick test I did... EDIT: I still get dropped frames at 59.94 hz in windowed mode - oh well.

Which card? I assume it's a GTX680??

SBR

wouldn't this adaptive vsync mess with the audio? do we still use it with reclock?

I own a GTX460 and get only 3, 4 or 5 dropped frames during an entire 2 hour 23,976 Blu-Ray movie on my Sony VW95 projector. Only thing I had to change was making a CUSTOM resolution in the NVIDIA control panel of 23,978 instead of the default 23,976 setting. With the default 23,976 setting I got more dropped frames. I m bitstreaming to my AVR by the way and I use MPC-HC+LAV filters+madVR.

What were the instructions on creating the custom resolution? Forgot

This was on my Geforce 560 card. The 301.24 drivers introduced adaptive vsync for nearly all cards (I believe geforce 8xxx series and up but I could be wrong). There were no audio glitches. I was using bitstream over HDMI. MPC-HC with latest LAV and MadVR filters. This solved the Presentation Glitches I was constantly having with the new drivers.

If you have the 29x drivers you can't use this feature, and you won't need it anyways. I use the new drivers because I also game.

Update: For some reason, my old custom rez doesn't work anymore - 23.97615 hz instead of the previous 23.97608 hz I had before. Not sure what happened there - could be the upgrade to the 301.24 drivers or the addition of the new AVR or timings affected by a new version of MadVR (0.82.5).

So back to the drawing board and now I managed to get 23.97601 hz within MadVR on my NVIDIA 560 card. Maybe my settings can help those with a similar setup:

Well, I *thought* my lipsync issues were tied to DVD rips only. Turns out, I'm still having them on BRD rips, too.

i5 SB on Intel media MB (DH67GD) integrated video/audio. Using TMT for playback. Video output property was set at 23Hz and Lumagen video processor reports 23.96Hz (only goes to 2 digits).

I watched Mission Impossible Ghost Protocol BRD decoded iso rip the other night. Lipsync was getting WAY out. If I pause and then start again, it syncs up but gradually works it way out again. As a test next day I let it run for about 45 minutes and that time it got nearly a second out, audio coming before video.

Becasue some others had issues with TMT5, I uninstalled it and tried TMT3. Same result, no fix.

I didn't remember this being an issue before I tried to fix the refresh rate to 23.96 hz. So, as an experiment I set PC video rate property back to 24Hz. Lumagen reported input as 24.00Hz. I played the same video to the same 45 minute mark. This time audio remained in-sync.

So it appears I can get frame rate close to right, but at the cost of severe audio syncing issues. If I have lip-sync I have to have video at 24Hz.

Any suggestions on a fix? Is this something reclock would correct? I'm concerned reclock is going to hose the HD audio streams.