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Let's set this straight - No one can do 24p consistently well - Page 21

post #601 of 1281
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ultrasilent View Post

assassin, I use TMT 5 and Power DVD 12 usually, but for resolving this particular problem I use MPC-HC.

Have you tried the most recent drivers?
post #602 of 1281
core i3-2350M
driver 8.15.10.2622

Which search words I must use?
Are custom resolutions useless?
post #603 of 1281
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ultrasilent View Post

core i3-2350M
driver 8.15.10.2622
Which search words I must use?
Are custom resolutions useless?

I haven't tested the newest drivers as I have been quite happy with my htpc so I can't comment personally. Renethx did some testing recently and these were his results... http://www.avsforum.com/t/1333324/lets-set-this-straight-no-one-can-do-24p-consistently-well/540#post_22120052

I am not sure what exact drivers he was using either but I would imagine they were recent ones.

Edit: Nevermind --- he said he used the latest drivers.
post #604 of 1281
Quote:
Originally Posted by ultrasilent View Post

I turn off UAC. but I don,t see any difference. in both cases I see 23.991 Hz. where is my mistake?
Is it driver problem?

What board do you have? This is a function of the VBIOS.
post #605 of 1281
I have mobile Sandy Bridge. may be here is my problem.
btw, very strange situation. must I check everyone driver now?
Edited by ultrasilent - 7/8/12 at 2:47pm
post #606 of 1281
Quote:
Originally Posted by babgvant View Post

What board do you have? This is a function of the VBIOS.

http://market.yandex.ru/model.xml?modelid=8282216&hid=91013
post #607 of 1281
Thread Starter 
Quote:

I think all bets are off when it comes to laptops. I am convinced that some laptops have bios that are severely altered by the manufacturer.

Others may have other opinions.
post #608 of 1281
Quote:

Best bet is to make sure you have the latest. Other than that, not sure what you can do.
post #609 of 1281
I have latest BIOS and latest video drivers. and I`m not sure that my laptop support downgrading the BIOS.
and what about custom resolution?
post #610 of 1281
Yeah, +- 0.00050 hz isn't so bad - basically closer than previous generations of HTPCs I've built. I could live with that. It sure is weird that the frequencies keep changing on every reboot - I suspect it could be a BIOS problem (in videocard? motherboard?) with respect to PCIe timing. Perhaps having something to do with power management? Oh well. It's more than good enough.

The Dune isn't perfect either - I found one title (Wrath of the Titans) that actually has an audio gap at a seamless branch transition point - but it only occurs on a first playthrough when using DTS-HD MA bitstreaming. If I tell the Dune to decode to PCM first, there is no audio dropout! This would probably not happen on my HTPC (although there are some titles that seem to trip up LAV audio splitter with the same result).

There is no perfect solution. Use what you got, don't die old and bitter! smile.gif
post #611 of 1281
I can`t understand what problem is with custom resolutions on my Intel HD 3000 video.
I spent some time, try many different presets , but every time system respond with this message:
Your monitor doesn`t support this rate/mode.

where is my mistake?
post #612 of 1281
You're trying to set up a resolution that your monitor doesn't support.
post #613 of 1281
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

You're trying to set up a resolution that your monitor doesn't support.

I don`t think so.
same presets on Nvidia work without problem.
are Intel`s custom resolution operational or not?
Can somebody show Intel panel with working custom resolutions?
post #614 of 1281
I'm using custom resolutions with nVidia so IDK as I never used them on the intel driver before I added the nVidia card to my HTPC.
post #615 of 1281
Quote:
Originally Posted by assassin View Post

I think all bets are off when it comes to laptops. I am convinced that some laptops have bios that are severely altered by the manufacturer.
Others may have other opinions.

That may be the reason why I can't get those "Intel with UAC off: 23.973 (-0.003)" on my Dell Vostro 3550, i5 (Cougar Point HM67, Sandy Bridge) -> only 23.991 (+0.015)?
1/(23.991-23.976) = each 66.666.. sec I should have a periodic stutter.

To see that I built a new "23.976-Slices" and that's the reason why I'm writing here, would be interesting how it works on your machines.

Download here* 30MB 1080p23.976, H.264, AAC+AC3, 8:22min, low bitrate

Resized 70%:




The "66.666.. sec" didn't really work for me, I have a single stutter every 21 sec, no idea why. Tried it with other clips, decoders, rendrerers, always 21 sec.
Even switching to the Dell built-in HD6630 same 21 sec!? BIOS/driver issue?
Some times an additional micro-stutter at the point the red and green lines are jumping each 66.666.. sec but not always.

Ati HD5850 mobile on the other laptop shows a nice 23.977 and no stutter as far as I could see:

Ati_HD5850_23.977_kl.png



"23.976-Slices" next feature, I built in the "Pong" sounds every time the ticker bouncing (every 5 sec) from the edge.
This beeps are only 50 ms long and so you are able to "see" your video or audio delay rel. exactly (ie. to set the AVR delay):

beep_delay.png



p.s.
if 8 minutes are too short just set MPC-HC to "Repeat forever" (but not "Rewind..!) and the count down moves on although repeating.

Have a nice time!
.
Edited by blaubart - 8/5/12 at 2:17pm
post #616 of 1281
Quote:
Originally Posted by blaubart View Post

"23.976-Slices" next feature, I built in the "Pong" sounds every time the ticker bouncing (every 5 sec) from the edge.
This beeps are only 50 ms long and so you are able to "see" your video or audio delay rel. exactly (ie. to set the AVR delay):

Hmmm, I used a stop watch to measure the speed of the bouncing Kasescheibchen, and it was about 2.79 seconds to move 10 squares, so rounding that is about 280 msec per square. But I see you have it labeled as 200ms per square.
post #617 of 1281
Quote:
Originally Posted by jim2100 View Post

Hmmm, I used a stop watch to measure the speed of the bouncing Kasescheibchen, and it was about 2.79 seconds to move 10 squares, so rounding that is about 280 msec per square. But I see you have it labeled as 200ms per square.
Doing time calculations programatically is a little more accurate than hitting a button on a stopwatch and rounding the results. wink.gif
post #618 of 1281
Here is one more data point in our 24p quest. My AMD 6450 video card was taking a nose dive, so I ordered a 7750 (Sapphire, with passive heatsink & no fan). I've only had the 7750 a couple of days now, but so far, it is doing very well. Reclock is reporting exactly 23.976 as I'm playing BDs through TMT5. My 5000 and 6000 series ATI/AMD video cards were slightly off at 23.975 and 23.977, but this 7750 seems to be right on target. Yes, it is overkill for a HTPC, and I wish they'd make cheaper more HTPC oriented video cards, but right now this is the lowest end 7000 series video card they're offering.
post #619 of 1281
Thread Starter 
You don't need to turn uac off anymore. You might want to try a different driver.
post #620 of 1281
Quote:
Originally Posted by blaubart View Post

That may be the reason why I can't get those "Intel with UAC off: 23.973 (-0.003)" on my Dell Vostro 3550, i5 (Cougar Point HM67, Sandy Bridge) -> only 23.991 (+0.015)?
1/(23.991-23.976) = each 66.666.. sec I should have a periodic stutter.
To see that I built a new "23.976-Slices" and that's the reason why I'm writing here, would be interesting how it works on your machines.

.

i am interested in testing this as i am suspicious that my onkyo avr is messing with the framerate why did you build this as an .au file? it seems mkv would be better for compatibility with more media players (speaking of which are you testing with mpc in your screenshots?)

also with a better container it should be possible to include multiple audio formats i am suspicious that my new avr might have sync issues with dts specifically.
post #621 of 1281
Quote:
Originally Posted by vladd View Post

Doing time calculations programatically is a little more accurate than hitting a button on a stopwatch and rounding the results. wink.gif

Apparently not, in this case. Your computations appear to be wrong. I just timed it three times and got 2.73, 2.78, 2.82 seconds for 10 squares. There is no way that 200ms per square is correct (at least when played back on my computer with MPC-HC and 23.976Hz display)

By the way, in case you think my reaction time is slow, I closed my eyes and paused playback when I heard the pong sound. I did this several times. Every time the arrow was still within the first square (although close to the edge). So my reaction time, including the time to recognize the sound, press the mouse button, and wait for the video to stop is consistently around 250ms. So even if you assume my 2.8sec per 10 squares time is off by 250ms, it is still no where near 200ms per square (it would be 255ms per square if I was 250ms late).
post #622 of 1281
Quote:
Originally Posted by jim2100 View Post

Apparently not, in this case. Your computations appear to be wrong.
Well I would check them if they were actually MY computations. wink.gif

I'm sure blaubart will fix it if is indeed a mistake.
post #623 of 1281
Here is what i am getting from Radeon 6450 how often should i be getting a frame drop?

Slices_1080p23.976_H.264_AAC_audio.jpg 228k .jpg file
post #624 of 1281
Quote:
Originally Posted by jim2100 View Post

Hmmm, I used a stop watch to measure the speed of the bouncing Kasescheibchen, and it was about 2.79 seconds to move 10 squares, so rounding that is about 280 msec per square. But I see you have it labeled as 200ms per square.

You are right, to be precise, one complete ticker movement (to the left + right) is 10.051 sec, so half movement (one direction) is 5.0255 sec

5.0255 / 18 (squares) = 279 ms per square

But what I always try to explain for the patterns is what the eye in real life is usually able to see. And that comes quite close to what I've shown in the picture.
Tested it by changing the audio delay in the Denon AVR to 0, 100 and 200 ms.

-> "pushed" the arrow in the picture 2 pixels to the left, like it more now?




Quote:
Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post

i am interested in testing this as i am suspicious that my onkyo avr is messing with the framerate why did you build this as an .au file? it seems mkv would be better for compatibility with more media players (speaking of which are you testing with mpc in your screenshots?)
also with a better container it should be possible to include multiple audio formats i am suspicious that my new avr might have sync issues with dts specifically.

Yes, testing by MPC-HC. No DTS possible with the encoder, sorry. And it HAS to be all done by the encoder cause only he garants true timings.

Tested with various splitter /audio and video decoder /EVR combos - always same results, that's important. mp4 (H.264 + AAC) is a very easy format (nearly?) every player should be able to play.
post #625 of 1281
Quote:
Originally Posted by blaubart View Post

-> "pushed" the arrow in the picture 2 pixels to the left, like it more now?

Looks like a move in the right direction. A quick measurement with my ruler makes it look like you are measuring 214ms delay in the picture labeled 200ms. Close enough. wink.gif
post #626 of 1281
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post

Here is what i am getting from Radeon 6450 how often should i be getting a frame drop?
Slices_1080p23.976_H.264_AAC_audio.jpg 228k .jpg file

You hopefully should get no drop. Same with my HD5850 mobile - 23.977 and no drops. Congrats!

May be the test will show drops on Intel Graphics?
- i.e. if somebody had a HD3000 (Cougar Point HM67, Sandy Bridge) like me or later but without HD6630 combined - better then every 21 sec?
- or a newer Ivy Bridge HD4000 where the 24p bug is said to be repaired?

I'm not sure if the formula - 1/(EVR-output - 23.976) = stutters in sec - always gives the right answer. To see if there is more the 23.976-Slices should be handy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jim2100 View Post

Looks like a move in the right direction. A quick measurement with my ruler makes it look like you are measuring 214ms delay in the picture labeled 200ms. Close enough. wink.gif

Just try it by changing your AVR's audio delay. Eye measures are quite different.. But may be an ego-shooter pro will see with other eyes wink.gif ?
Edited by blaubart - 7/29/12 at 2:02pm
post #627 of 1281
Quote:
Originally Posted by blaubart View Post

To see that I built a new "23.976-Slices" and that's the reason why I'm writing here, would be interesting how it works on your machines.
.

I get different results from your slices than any of my movies.
post #628 of 1281
How do you get the display to show how often you will get a dropped frame in MPC?
post #629 of 1281
madVR
post #630 of 1281
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post

How do you get the display to show how often you will get a dropped frame in MPC?

Just curious how many of you obsessing with dropped frames are noticing them?

I have looked repeatedly and intensely and can't see them on ati, nvidia or Intel.
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