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Let's set this straight - No one can do 24p consistently well - Page 31

post #901 of 1281
Quote:
Originally Posted by robl45 View Post

also right in the reclock settings or the settings i guess when its running, you can see clearly that it says it is setting to 24p so it is speeding it up slightly. and if you don't have it at the correct refresh or a multiple it tells you to put it there.
ReClock is confusing you there. Even if it says its setting speed to 24fps, it always matches it to the actual refresh rate. Ignore that text.
As long as ReClocks icon is green, its doing its job properly, no matter what it says in that text field.
post #902 of 1281
Yes, you are right.

It is a confusing message from Reclock which for some reason James never wanted to fix smile.gif

http://forum.slysoft.com/showpost.php?p=142863&postcount=3

http://forum.slysoft.com/showthread.php?p=155937&highlight=24p+cinema#post155937
post #903 of 1281
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevcairiel View Post

ReClock is confusing you there. Even if it says its setting speed to 24fps, it always matches it to the actual refresh rate. Ignore that text.
As long as ReClocks icon is green, its doing its job properly, no matter what it says in that text field.

interesting.

but then the real issue is isn't reclock supposed to handle the fact that things aren't matched perfectly? if they were, we wouldn't need reclock in the first place. I mean, if the refresh rate is off a bit, say 23.71 like nvidia typically does if you don't do custom rate, it should be able to resample the audio and make it right. Thats not what I've experience though, you have to get the rate almost dead on for reclock to work.
post #904 of 1281
If MadVR and Reclock solves the issue of this thread (I am skeptical becase if it did and was that simple this would all be a non-issue), then what are its downsides?

Dowsides as related to source direct as possible playback? Player/file type compatibility? Load on integrated GPUs?
post #905 of 1281
Quote:
Originally Posted by GetGray View Post

If MadVR and Reclock solves the issue of this thread (I am skeptical becase if it did and was that simple this would all be a non-issue), then what are its downsides?
Dowsides as related to source direct as possible playback? Player/file type compatibility? Load on integrated GPUs?

1) You need a GPU in the mid-range or better (GT430/GT440, HD4000, 5550HD, etc). Low end dGPUs, Intel IPGs below the HD4000 (HD2000/HD2500/HD3000) and AMD's Brazos APUs are not suitable.

2) AFAIK only GUI challenged players like MPC-HC support madVR + Reclock. J River Media Center (JMC) has a similar audio renderer which offers the same feature (as well as outstanding music playback) and also supports madVR, while also offering a decent "jukebox" browsing UI.

If you're thinking about looking into this more I'd recommend doing a JMC trial. IMO, they provide the best HTPC A/V experience (if you can accept the sparse OSD and lack of BD menus).
post #906 of 1281
Quote:
Originally Posted by GetGray View Post

Dowsides as related to source direct as possible playback?

No source direct.
post #907 of 1281
Quote:
Originally Posted by robl45 View Post

interesting.
but then the real issue is isn't reclock supposed to handle the fact that things aren't matched perfectly? if they were, we wouldn't need reclock in the first place. I mean, if the refresh rate is off a bit, say 23.71 like nvidia typically does if you don't do custom rate, it should be able to resample the audio and make it right. Thats not what I've experience though, you have to get the rate almost dead on for reclock to work.
Reclock will work whatever the difference in rates. of course the more extreme the difference the more the audio pitch is changed. You can even use Reclock to correct the pitch unfortunately the side effects of this are worse than the pitch problem. No need to worry about pitch correction though when simply correcting inaccurate 23.976 rate by your GPU or switching to/from 24/23.976.

If you have problems with Reclock not "working" we would need to understand what you mean by that.
post #908 of 1281
Quote:
Originally Posted by babgvant View Post

If you're thinking about looking into this more I'd recommend doing a JMC trial. IMO, they provide the best HTPC A/V experience (if you can accept the sparse OSD and lack of BD menus).
+1

But I still use Reclock with TMT5 for "full menu" and 3D Blu-ray playback.
post #909 of 1281
Quote:
Originally Posted by babgvant View Post

No source direct.

You can't bitstream either, which is another side effect.
post #910 of 1281
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chronoptimist View Post

Glad you got this sorted, and can see how good it is when ReClock + madVR are working together.

Not only madVR but also DXVA using EVR with Cyberlink, Arcsoft and more renderers. Anyway they eventually do not run as perfect as madVR in your setup they benefit from ReClock in the same way.
_
Edited by blaubart - 8/27/12 at 7:48am
post #911 of 1281
Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post

You can't bitstream either, which is another side effect.

That is true, but in either case (Reclock/JMC) you get WASAPI output w/ the correct number of channels set.
post #912 of 1281
Quote:
Originally Posted by babgvant View Post

1) You need a GPU in the mid-range or better (GT430/GT440, HD4000, 5550HD, etc). Low end dGPUs, Intel IPGs below the HD4000 (HD2000/HD2500/HD3000) and AMD's Brazos APUs are not suitable.
2) AFAIK only GUI challenged players like MPC-HC support madVR + Reclock. J River Media Center (JMC) has a similar audio renderer which offers the same feature (as well as outstanding music playback) and also supports madVR, while also offering a decent "jukebox" browsing UI.
If you're thinking about looking into this more I'd recommend doing a JMC trial. IMO, they provide the best HTPC A/V experience (if you can accept the sparse OSD and lack of BD menus).

Honestly I'm not sure which Intel GPU Ihave. Can you tell from below?

I really prefer to stick with a good jukebox like MyMovies. If I'm going to give up the nice interface, I might as well go back to a Dune player and skip the warts of the HTPC.
Code:
Operating System: Windows 7 Enterprise 64-bit (6.1, Build 7601) Service Pack 1 (7601.win7sp1_gdr.120330-1504)
           Language: English (Regional Setting: English)
System Manufacturer: INTEL_
       System Model: DH67GD__
               BIOS: BIOS Date: 10/07/11 15:05:28 Ver: 04.06.04
          Processor: Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-2400S CPU @ 2.50GHz (4 CPUs), ~2.5GHz
             Memory: 8192MB RAM
Available OS Memory: 8100MB RAM
          Page File: 1380MB used, 14816MB available
        Windows Dir: C:\Windows
    DirectX Version: DirectX 11
DX Setup Parameters: Not found
   User DPI Setting: Using System DPI
 System DPI Setting: 96 DPI (100 percent)
    DWM DPI Scaling: Disabled
     DxDiag Version: 6.01.7601.17514 64bit Unicode


---------------
Display Devices
---------------
          Card name: Intel(R) HD Graphics Family
       Manufacturer: Intel Corporation
          Chip type: Intel(R) HD Graphics Family
           DAC type: Internal
         Device Key: Enum\PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_0102&SUBSYS_20018086&REV_09
     Display Memory: 1696 MB
   Dedicated Memory: 64 MB
      Shared Memory: 1632 MB
       Current Mode: 1920 x 1080 (32 bit) (23Hz)
post #913 of 1281
Quote:
Originally Posted by babgvant View Post

1) You need a GPU in the mid-range or better (GT430/GT440, HD4000, 5550HD, etc). Low end dGPUs, Intel IPGs below the HD4000 (HD2000/HD2500/HD3000) and AMD's Brazos APUs are not suitable.

Not sure what it was with my Sandy HD3000 maybe the laptop driver. I think a HD3000 in a HTPC performing the 23.973 like assasin's would do it better with ReClock.

But I anyway stay old-school and free - a good Graphics card, a good AVR+TV and please no ReClock at all..wink.gif
_
Edited by blaubart - 8/27/12 at 10:59am
post #914 of 1281
Quote:
Originally Posted by blaubart View Post

Not sure what it was with my Sandy HD3000 maybe the laptop driver. I think a HD3000 in a HTPC performing the 23.973 like assasin's would do it better with ReClock.

TBC, those comments were only for madVR use. SNB/IVB + EVR is quite good and doesn't have the same HW caveats, it primarily lacks the flexibility to choose the VP algorithm that you prefer.
post #915 of 1281
Quote:
Originally Posted by GetGray View Post

Honestly I'm not sure which Intel GPU Ihave. Can you tell from below?
Code:
          Processor: Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-2400S CPU @ 2.50GHz (4 CPUs), ~2.5GHz

HD2000.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GetGray View Post

I really prefer to stick with a good jukebox like MyMovies. If I'm going to give up the nice interface, I might as well go back to a Dune player and skip the warts of the HTPC.

JMC's 10' media browsing UI is similar to MM. It has wall/list/coverflow views w/ fanart, text, posters, etc., but IMO it's not quite as nice (but improving) as some other HTPC UIs.
post #916 of 1281
Quote:
Originally Posted by GetGray View Post

If MadVR and Reclock solves the issue of this thread (I am skeptical becase if it did and was that simple this would all be a non-issue), then what are its downsides?
Dowsides as related to source direct as possible playback? Player/file type compatibility? Load on integrated GPUs?
I’m not sure what you mean by “source direct” do you mean bitstreaming?

For ReClock to work correctly, you need to do the decoding to LPCM on your CPU (LAV Audio is bitperfect) and then have it resample the audio. If your output supports it (most should now) you can have ReClock upsample the audio to 24-bit, 192kHz so the resampling should be transparent.

Enable WASAPI output in ReClock to have it switch speaker output to match the number of channels in the source. I’m currently waiting on some more parts for my PC, but when I get that up and running again, I will write a guide for ReClock, madVR & MPC-HC if people want.

I don’t personally use a graphical front-end on my HTPC—I type in the disc name, and it automatically opens the “index.bdmv’ file, starting the film directly. (I actively do not want to deal with disc menus) I’m sure that most library management software will let you set a custom player though.

As for GPU load, you may be able to get away with using Bilinear on chroma/luma upsampling, though it won’t be very good quality. One of the advantages of madVR is the option to use advanced upsampling algorithms that rival—or best—stand-alone devices, though it will requite a dedicated GPU.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jong1 View Post

Reclock will work whatever the difference in rates. of course the more extreme the difference the more the audio pitch is changed. You can even use Reclock to correct the pitch unfortunately the side effects of this are worse than the pitch problem. No need to worry about pitch correction though when simply correcting inaccurate 23.976 rate by your GPU or switching to/from 24/23.976.
If you have problems with Reclock not "working" we would need to understand what you mean by that.
For what it’s worth, there are virtually no commercial discs where audio pitch has been corrected. The films are generally sped up/down without any sort of correction, so there is no need to enable time stretching. (it is really obvious if a 25p film has been corrected, and you then slow it down)
Quote:
Originally Posted by blaubart View Post

Not only madVR but also DXVA using EVR with Cyberlink, Arcsoft and more renderers. Anyway they eventually do not run as perfect as madVR in your setup they benefit from ReClock in the same way.
_
Personally I have never been able to get ReClock to work well with these players at all. There were always audio pops & clicks, or stuttering issues.
post #917 of 1281
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chronoptimist View Post

I’m not sure what you mean by “source direct” do you mean bitstreaming?

The playback device just decodes, w/o scaling, DI or any VP.
post #918 of 1281
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chronoptimist View Post

Personally I have never been able to get ReClock to work well with these players at all. There were always audio pops & clicks, or stuttering issues.

If you don't even get EVR + MPC-HC to run smooth/clean with ReClock your setup must be kind of insane somewhere. You should try not to be too fixated on some special 'perfect' setup but be willing to try more around - i.e. try any PC with any display (+settings) you can access somehow and let them play with MPC and filters and try other software you never tried before.. May need a while I know, but writing a million words in forums too..smile.gif

Found this: The proof of the pudding is in the eating - sorry for my poor english.
post #919 of 1281
Quote:
Originally Posted by blaubart View Post

If you don't even get EVR + MPC-HC to run smooth/clean with ReClock your setup must be kind of insane somewhere. You should try not to be too fixated on some special 'perfect' setup but be willing to try more around - i.e. try any PC with any display (+settings) you can access somehow and let them play with MPC and filters and try other software you never tried before.. May need a while I know, but writing a million words in forums too..smile.gif
Found this: The proof of the pudding is in the eating - sorry for my poor english.

he was talking about other players not running well with reclock.

For most people, especially many on this thread, they would be very happy using XBMC, nice interface and very easy to use. 24p play doesn't work correctly for most video cards, but people here don't seem to care about that. or xbmc can be used with external player like mpc-hc with reclock and then it works correctly.
post #920 of 1281
Quote:
Originally Posted by robl45 View Post

he was talking about other players not running well with reclock.

watch this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chronoptimist View Post

MadVR + ReClock is the only way I have been able to achieve 100% smooth video playback on a PC.
post #921 of 1281
Well, I know it's a personal issue but based on what Andy said, my intel (HD2000) can't swing it (MadVR + reclock) anyway. I'm dead set on a silent client unit because my rack is in my theater and I want NO noise from it. I am currently in a HTIQ fannless heatpipe case that I've been happy with. No fan. No noise. So unless there is a fanless dedicated GPU that is a substantial improvement over my SB motherboard integrated GPU, I'll sit it out for a while longer and see what happens.
post #922 of 1281
All people setting 'NO noise' = 'fanless' I ask the same question - how far is your ear away from the machine?
A slow spinning big fan is no more hearable at about >20" (50cm) and does MUCH more cooling compared to fanless.

Even if it's night, you are living outside a city watching a silent movie without music.
And using a slow spinning big fan you have MUCH more flexibility in designing your HTPC.

Hmm but what I also heared, in America they all have those 2000 Watt air conditioner's cooling the room down to 61°F (16°C)?
post #923 of 1281
I find fanless to be a waste of money and time, a 120mm cooler spinning at 400-500rpm is inaudible from 1 meter away at 2AM in the night. My 2.5 laptop drive will make more noise than it.
post #924 of 1281
agreed.

My PSU with a 14cm fan makes VERY little noise.
My 12cm push pull fans also make very little noise in the case.

It is the stock fan on my 6850 GPU that makes the most noise. With all that plastic covering it I have no idea what or how to change it.
post #925 of 1281
they make a fanless gt430 gpu if you really need fanless, I guess it depends where the equipment is, if its behind your head, maybe you would hear it. I carry my computer downstairs to hook up to my projector and its at the front of the room so its barely audible, especially over the speakers.
post #926 of 1281
Quote:
Originally Posted by robl45 View Post

they make a fanless gt430 gpu if you really need fanless

Passively cooled dGPU generally still require active cooling in the chassis unless it is designed to support that use case.

IMO completely passive builds are usually unnecessary for a "slient*" HTPC with some planning and careful component selection, especially when using an IPG/APU.

* can't hear it from > 1 or 2' away
post #927 of 1281
I use a passive 7750, works just fine.
Besides that, i have a 120mm CPU fan with a low-noise adapter for slower speeds, and a 180mm case fan. I hear nothing at all. Granted, the things looks more like a PC then a HTPC, but thats not something i cared about (its a Silverstone TJ08B-E)
post #928 of 1281
I think I struck a nerve smile.gif. I didn't mean to send this onto a quiet PC tangent. Its great many of you can't hear your PC fans. I'm pretty sentive to it. There is no "day" or "night" in my theater. Time of day has no relevance. My room is built as walls and ceiling inside walls (completely decoupled), I have 200 lb sound doors, and the walls are made of double 5/8" drywall with green glue inbetween. The HVAC is engineered to prevent sound transmission and even the registers make no noise, not a whisper. I can hear the tiny fan on my Tivo that comes on when it powers up, easliy. And you could too in my room. My HTPC client is a 1.5U rackmount and I've never seen a fan running at a speed that would do any good, that I couldn't hear 4-5 feet away which is where my seat is from the rack. I could put some together though if the perfect playback was really a possiblity.

I'm not reall keen to invest in a dedicated GPU, which may mean a complete PC rebuild adn case change out, just to try the claim that those 2 software components will fix all woes. Not crazy about the audio demux and resampling either, but I'm not a big audio guy and could live with that in the name of flawless video, without ongoing geekware tweaks, adjustments and pain. I do have room for one card in my existing case. If there is a dGPU that can handle it, fit, and work properly I'd be interested in trying it. And if in the end, the playback solution will work with MyMovies juke box. Would it? Still not completely clear on that.

I'm still skeptical that this is a fix. Otherwise as I said before all of this (point of this thread) would become academic. Eveyone woudl be saying Oh, just do thhis and you are fixed. But they are not. What say you Assassin? Your thread.
post #929 of 1281
I can hear the fan in my HTPC.. bearly.. right up to the point were I turn on the system and it is completely drowned out but the audio coming out of my speakers.
post #930 of 1281
I hear ya wink.gif
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