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Let's set this straight - No one can do 24p consistently well - Page 32

post #931 of 1281
Quote:
Originally Posted by GetGray View Post

I think I struck a nerve smile.gif. I didn't mean to send this onto a quiet PC tangent. Its great many of you can't hear your PC fans. I'm pretty sentive to it. There is no "day" or "night" in my theater. Time of day has no relevance. My room is built as walls and ceiling inside walls (completely decoupled), I have 200 lb sound doors, and the walls are made of double 5/8" drywall with green glue inbetween. The HVAC is engineered to prevent sound transmission and even the registers make no noise, not a whisper. I can hear the tiny fan on my Tivo that comes on when it powers up, easliy. And you could too in my room. My HTPC client is a 1.5U rackmount and I've never seen a fan running at a speed that would do any good, that I couldn't hear 4-5 feet away which is where my seat is from the rack. I could put some together though if the perfect playback was really a possiblity.
I'm not reall keen to invest in a dedicated GPU, which may mean a complete PC rebuild adn case change out, just to try the claim that those 2 software components will fix all woes. Not crazy about the audio demux and resampling either, but I'm not a big audio guy and could live with that in the name of flawless video, without ongoing geekware tweaks, adjustments and pain. I do have room for one card in my existing case. If there is a dGPU that can handle it, fit, and work properly I'd be interested in trying it. And if in the end, the playback solution will work with MyMovies juke box. Would it? Still not completely clear on that.
I'm still skeptical that this is a fix. Otherwise as I said before all of this (point of this thread) would become academic. Eveyone woudl be saying Oh, just do thhis and you are fixed. But they are not. What say you Assassin? Your thread.

a little confused, you aren't a big audio guy and you built a completely soundproof theatre? Each to his own and I'm not judging just a little confused. Like someone else said, once the audio is on, I don't hear the computer, I have a better chance of hearing the projector fan then the computer. at any rate, likely you would need a dedicated GPU to get decent home theatre performance, i'm not really sure why you would build such an intensive theatre and then not want to have the best picture you can?
post #932 of 1281
Sorry, I meant I wasn't a 2 channel purist. Audio is important. My sound treatments are as much to hold sound in as keep it out. Slent enviroment is a finge benefit, wasn't the goal. The PC was built with advise of others. The HTPC is not what I consider my "reference" video path, as much as I'd like for it to be. Back on topic of getting best playback...preferably somethign I can use with or integrate with MyMovies?

So what GPU is the best one to accomplish the suggested path, which I continue to be skeptical of. Preferable passive, next is very very quiet fan, where I can work out how to cool it. I can leave my case uncapped in my rack. And the one card slot I have has the card laying on it's site, on top.

Back to this:
Quote:
If MadVR and Reclock solves the issue of this thread (I am skeptical becase if it did and was that simple this would all be a non-issue), then what are its downsides?

Dowsides as related to source direct as possible playback? Player/file type compatibility? Load on integrated GPUs?
post #933 of 1281
Thread Starter 
I use the iGPU. So do many of my friends --- some of whom use a 100+" screen. Never heard a complaint about noise or anything else.
post #934 of 1281
The Sapphire Ultimate HD7750 is fanless, runs very cool and is man enough for any HTPC task you want to throw at it. Works great with MadVR. Whether it fits in your case is another matter!
post #935 of 1281
OK, my curiosity of if I can improve is piqued.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jong1 View Post

The Sapphire Ultimate HD7750 is fanless, runs very cool and is man enough for any HTPC task you want to throw at it. Works great with MadVR. Whether it fits in your case is another matter!
Thanks I'll have a look at it and see. Depending on which side of the card the chips are on, without going into detail, I can likely make it work in my case.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronoptomist 
Enable WASAPI output in ReClock to have it switch speaker output to match the number of channels in the source. I’m currently waiting on some more parts for my PC, but when I get that up and running again, I will write a guide for ReClock, madVR & MPC-HC if people want.

A guide from you (or anyone with it tuned and functioning) would be great. Have any idea on when you might be able to do it?

Anyone know if this can be integrated with MyMovies?
post #936 of 1281
Quote:
Originally Posted by jong1 View Post

The Sapphire Ultimate HD7750 is fanless, runs very cool and is man enough for any HTPC task you want to throw at it. Works great with MadVR. Whether it fits in your case is another matter!

'very cool' - not so easy.
Depends also on your geographical position on this world, the lagging of your house and roof, the floor you're living in, seasons like summer/winter and if you're using a 1500 or 3000 Watt air conditioner..smile.gif
post #937 of 1281
It's cheap enough at Newegg, but it's a double card. I could with effort fit it. But I forgot about the power requirements on these. 450w req. Pretty sure my silent PS can't swing that, I'd have to open and look, I dont' remember what it came with. Very unlikely. Oh well, still curious whether this is worth the trouble over the Intel and current TMT5.
post #938 of 1281
Code:
Quote:
Originally Posted by blaubart View Post

'very cool' - not so easy.
Depends also on your geographical position on this world, the lagging of your house and roof, the floor you're living in, seasons like summer/winter and if you're using a 1500 or 3000 Watt air conditioner..smile.gif
what I mean is the temperature delta from ambient is comparable with other fanned models. My experience with earlier generation fanless cards is they tended to run hot. This heatsink seems to work as effectively as the stock fan.
post #939 of 1281
Quote:
Originally Posted by GetGray View Post

Anyone know if this can be integrated with MyMovies?
JRiver MediaCenter fully integrates and supports MadVR, with their equivalent of Reclock (Videoclock). It has relatively new MyMovies support. I cannot personally vouch for this integration as I don't use MyMovies: http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/MyMovies

JRiver also has about the best audiophile infrastructure of any full media player, including WASAPI and much more.
post #940 of 1281
Quote:
Originally Posted by GetGray View Post

It's cheap enough at Newegg, but it's a double card. I could with effort fit it. But I forgot about the power requirements on these. 450w req. Pretty sure my silent PS can't swing that, I'd have to open and look, I dont' remember what it came with. Very unlikely. Oh well, still curious whether this is worth the trouble over the Intel and current TMT5.

There is a gt430 fanless that won't use much power. I have it in my PC that's 5 years old.
post #941 of 1281
Probably gone if it was 5 years ago.

Thanks for the jriver mymovies link, I'll check it out
post #942 of 1281
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GetGray View Post

Probably gone if it was 5 years ago.

This one? I have it. Good card.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121448
post #943 of 1281
Quote:
Originally Posted by GetGray View Post

Probably gone if it was 5 years ago.
Thanks for the jriver mymovies link, I'll check it out

the computer is 5 years old, the card is a year and a half old. i should have been more clear, there is a gt430 fanless card. I didn't get that one, the gt430 i have does have a fan. I was just stating that they don't use that much power.

personally i tried jriver and didn't care for it that much, i think xbmc has a better interface, but with xbmc i have to use xbmc along with mpc-hc as xbmc can't do 24p playback correctly while keeping audio sync, jriver probably can. not that big of a deal now as there is a remote that works for xbmc and mpc-hc making things relatively smooth.
post #944 of 1281
Hi!, I´m new in this forum,

Excuse me for my english, this is not my native lenguage, well actually i use lav + ffdshow raw (avisynth) for 23.976 content, i change the frame rate using changefps("film"), this is very useful, after using that, I have not longer problems with the judder. Very smooth playback in 24hz mode, with intel Sandy Brigde or Clarkdale. I only use reclock for wasapi mode, i select original speed. smile.gif
post #945 of 1281
Quote:
Originally Posted by robl45 View Post

, but with xbmc i have to use xbmc along with mpc-hc as xbmc can't do 24p playback correctly while keeping audio sync, jriver probably can. not that big of a deal now as there is a remote that works for xbmc and mpc-hc making things relatively smooth.

I'm very new to this so please excuse my ignorance.

I too are using XBMC and have loaded 300 or so BDs only onto it. I use it in conjunction with the Lumagen XS. I have always wondered a bit about the audio sync on 24 material and have had to set the audio delay to 250 on the XBMC and 140 on my Lumagen, thats alot of delay to make it right but it is now pretty good after alot of fiddling.

Are you saying one cant totally rely on XBMC alone to keep or stay in sync by itself and we need to use it with this mpc-hc which I know nothing about? I looked it up but don't really understand whats its all about or even how to integrate it into XBMC, can you help me please?
post #946 of 1281
Is it theoretically possible for the video card to automagically determine the frame rate of a video file and output a synchronized refresh rate?

A similar example would be in the Nvidia control panel where you can check settings such as "Use Video Player's settings" vs "use Nvidia's settings."
post #947 of 1281
Quote:
Originally Posted by RapalloAV View Post

I'm very new to this so please excuse my ignorance.
I too are using XBMC and have loaded 300 or so BDs only onto it. I use it in conjunction with the Lumagen XS. I have always wondered a bit about the audio sync on 24 material and have had to set the audio delay to 250 on the XBMC and 140 on my Lumagen, thats alot of delay to make it right but it is now pretty good after alot of fiddling.
Are you saying one cant totally rely on XBMC alone to keep or stay in sync by itself and we need to use it with this mpc-hc which I know nothing about? I looked it up but don't really understand whats its all about or even how to integrate it into XBMC, can you help me please?

thats really not a good way to do it with audio delay, may work, might not work, still could get out of sync. plus, how do you watch other material if you have the delay for 24p material? in my case with my card, certain types of encodes worked okay, others were delayed. the thing is it does work sometimes, what would really bother me is the sync function randomly jumping out of sync in the middle of a movie.

for hassle free play, it looks like jriver media center is the best. Otherwise using mpc-hc with reclock along with yatze remote that will control both seemlessly is probably your best bet.
post #948 of 1281
Quote:
Originally Posted by robl45 View Post

thats really not a good way to do it with audio delay, may work, might not work, still could get out of sync. plus, how do you watch other material if you have the delay for 24p material? in my case with my card, certain types of encodes worked okay, others were delayed. the thing is it does work sometimes, what would really bother me is the sync function randomly jumping out of sync in the middle of a movie.
for hassle free play, it looks like jriver media center is the best. Otherwise using mpc-hc with reclock along with yatze remote that will control both seemlessly is probably your best bet.

I don't use any other material except BDs ripped. You are right the sync can go out in the middle of a film, I can stop it, restart in the same place and it can be perfect again. Its all very hit and miss.

I don't want to change to Jriver as I really like the skin I'm using on XBMC. It looks like I need to investigate and find someone to help me incorporate mpc-hc with reclock along with yatze remote as you say above. Is this what you have?
post #949 of 1281
Quote:
Originally Posted by RapalloAV View Post

I don't use any other material except BDs ripped. You are right the sync can go out in the middle of a film, I can stop it, restart in the same place and it can be perfect again. Its all very hit and miss.
I don't want to change to Jriver as I really like the skin I'm using on XBMC. It looks like I need to investigate and find someone to help me incorporate mpc-hc with reclock along with yatze remote as you say above. Is this what you have?

yes, that is what I have. likely the sync is going out because you are using sync to display which is basically what reclock and videoclock do but its broken in xbmc for 24p playback, which beautiful for 25fps, and other fps. so it loses sync, then you pause and unpause and can get it to lock again. you can use the OSD to watch the missed counter, if its counting up, it isn't syncing, you can usually pause and unpause a number of times to get it to sync again, unfortunately as I found when watching a movie, it can go out randomly even if you don't do anything.

mpc-hc and yatze remote can work, its a bit of an effort which is why I say its probably easier to just use jriver.
post #950 of 1281
Quote:
Originally Posted by robl45 View Post

yes, that is what I have. likely the sync is going out because you are using sync to display which is basically what reclock and videoclock do but its broken in xbmc for 24p playback, which beautiful for 25fps, and other fps. so it loses sync, then you pause and unpause and can get it to lock again. you can use the OSD to watch the missed counter, if its counting up, it isn't syncing, you can usually pause and unpause a number of times to get it to sync again, unfortunately as I found when watching a movie, it can go out randomly even if you don't do anything.
mpc-hc and yatze remote can work, its a bit of an effort which is why I say its probably easier to just use jriver.

Ive Googled yatze remote and find nothing, what is it?
post #951 of 1281
Quote:
Originally Posted by RapalloAV View Post

Ive Googled yatze remote and find nothing, what is it?

sorry the name is yatse remote.
post #952 of 1281
Quote:
Originally Posted by robl45 View Post

sorry the name is yatse remote.

Ive just had a look at MPC-HC and it looks like it has alot of sync adjustments that XBMC doesnt even have. What results would one get by just using XBMC with MPC-HC added on?
post #953 of 1281
Quote:
Originally Posted by RapalloAV View Post

Ive just had a look at MPC-HC and it looks like it has alot of sync adjustments that XBMC doesnt even have. What results would one get by just using XBMC with MPC-HC added on?

you would get dropped frames likely, you want to use madvr with reclock with mpc-hc, you would have to set xbmc to use mpc-hc as external player. once you get it all working, it works pretty well although is relatively processor intensive you would also need lav audio and video and a graphics card that can take advantage of hardware acceleration. as I said, honestly a lot of work for something that you can just do easily with jriver and be done. I am testing jriver now, I may switch over to it from xbmc even though I really like the xbmc gui.
post #954 of 1281
Quote:
Originally Posted by robl45 View Post

you would get dropped frames likely, you want to use madvr with reclock with mpc-hc, you would have to set xbmc to use mpc-hc as external player. once you get it all working, it works pretty well although is relatively processor intensive you would also need lav audio and video and a graphics card that can take advantage of hardware acceleration. as I said, honestly a lot of work for something that you can just do easily with jriver and be done. I am testing jriver now, I may switch over to it from xbmc even though I really like the xbmc gui.

Im really in the same boat as you, I really like the look of XBMC and have everything working perfectly and dont want to change. All I have to do is try to get the audio to sync better with the video and at least be consistent. My PC was built only two months ago and is very up to date so should handle all thats thrown at it.

I have had a look at Jriver and dont like the look of it. I might just have to go down the path that you recommend, why didnt you?
post #955 of 1281
Quote:
Originally Posted by RapalloAV View Post

Im really in the same boat as you, I really like the look of XBMC and have everything working perfectly and dont want to change. All I have to do is try to get the audio to sync better with the video and at least be consistent. My PC was built only two months ago and is very up to date so should handle all thats thrown at it.
I have had a look at Jriver and dont like the look of it. I might just have to go down the path that you recommend, why didnt you?

I did,I use it now, just more of a hassle dealing with two players than I would prefer and Little annoyances like no resume
post #956 of 1281
Quote:
Originally Posted by robl45 View Post

I did,I use it now, just more of a hassle dealing with two players than I would prefer and Little annoyances like no resume

Oh I see...
What are the hassles of dealing with the two players, I thought once its installed its just running in the background and you can forget it?

What do you mean no resume?
post #957 of 1281
Quote:
Originally Posted by robl45 View Post

a little confused, you aren't a big audio guy and you built a completely soundproof theatre? Each to his own and I'm not judging just a little confused. Like someone else said, once the audio is on, I don't hear the computer, I have a better chance of hearing the projector fan then the computer. at any rate, likely you would need a dedicated GPU to get decent home theatre performance, i'm not really sure why you would build such an intensive theatre and then not want to have the best picture you can?

It depends how sensitive you are to fan noise. I can easily -- and I mean easily -- pick out fan noise in quiet sections of movies or songs. I've moved to a fanless PC with an Intel i3 processor and integrated video (3000), and it does everything I've tried to do. However, I've not tried upscaling or other processing tools as of yet.
post #958 of 1281
Quote:
Originally Posted by RapalloAV View Post

Oh I see...
What are the hassles of dealing with the two players, I thought once its installed its just running in the background and you can forget it?
What do you mean no resume?

not really, sometimes mpc-hc will crash for the heck of it. sometimes i have to reboot the pc to get it running again. mind you these are not that frequent, but certainly not a bulletproof setup.

by no resume, you can't stop a movie, and then resume it again from the same spot like you can when using the xbmc internal player. it also seems you can do this with jriver as well. jriver remote app kind of sucks from what i can tell and it can't manage to get the movie titles for crap like xbmc can, but it works, no BS, no spending 5 hours trying to get mpc-hc setup correctly with all the correct stuff for flawless playback. i'm seriously considering switching. I find it quite insulting that after a year +, xbmc can't or won't be bothered to fix the problem which is major, but work on bitstreaming is full speed ahead.
post #959 of 1281
MPC-HC has had resume with MB for months since MB 2.6 was released. It does occasionally crash though. I don't use XBMC, so don't know about it or how reliable it is.
post #960 of 1281
Quote:
Originally Posted by robl45 View Post

thats really not a good way to do it with audio delay, may work, might not work, still could get out of sync. plus, how do you watch other material if you have the delay for 24p material?

Simply by using an advancedsetting file to determine one or more delays dependant on the fps of the source - http://wiki.xbmc.org/index.php?title=Userdata/advancedsettings.xml - see video/latency eg: if you are only having issues with 24fps set the level of delay for refresh rate between 23-24fps and leave everything else as default. Properly set-up this will playback files in the 23-24 fps range with the identified delay and all others with none.

This quote from one of the devs on the project is equally relevant

Quote:
I try to read through this thread looking for consistent clues, whether in codecs, containers, OS's, hardware, pre or post-AE. I also watch for wider reports of it (this thread is only 30 pages and the posts are far from being all unique users). None of the devs bring this up as an issue either. Some users say it's fixed, others not. Some say it's only XBMC, others not.

Not saying by any stretch it may not be present or perceivable for some users, but a common potential scenario hasn't cropped up or developed by consensus here that might point to a root cause....
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