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AMD Llano - THE great HTPC chip? - Page 25

post #721 of 880
I am looking to build a simple HTPC to playback my physical dvd/brdvd and my archived blurays and dvds. I am interested in future support of 3d media when/if I decide to get a 3D tv but no gaming or other purpose. Which one of the llano units be my best bet or should I be looking at something else?
post #722 of 880
Quote:
Originally Posted by KPlummer View Post

I am looking to build a simple HTPC to playback my physical dvd/brdvd and my archived blurays and dvds. I am interested in future support of 3d media when/if I decide to get a 3D tv but no gaming or other purpose. Which one of the llano units be my best bet or should I be looking at something else?

I am using the A6-3500 for these exact same scenarios. Works great.
post #723 of 880
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zon2020 View Post

Why not just add a PCIe expansion card like the SilverStone EC01. Don't know if Newegg sells it, but I think Amazon does. There don't seem to be many expansion cards with the internal 3.0 header, but there are a few.

That seems to only have internal ports. I would want 2 rear and an internal header for my case. Plus I need a half-height one so I would have to look for a HH bracket. Anyone know of any other cards with an internal header?
Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

The CPU performance of A6-3500 is more or less identical with Athlon II X2 250. You'd better add an USB 3.0 expansion card instead of replacing CPU and mb, unless you go with A8-3850, ditching HD 5570 too (advantages of A8-3850 over Athlon II X2 250 + HD 5570 are better CPU, 1080p60 AVC hardware decode acceleration, MVC hardware decode acceleration, perfect playback of all contents under madVR [see below]).

BTW Athlon II X2 250 3.0GHz + HD 5570 is underpowered for 1080i60 with madVR (try this clip; CPU is the bottleneck here). It looks like you don't play interlaced contents?

But the A6-3500 is a triple-core. The A6-3500 scores over double the AMD 250 in passmark IIRC. I think the HD6510 is a little slower than the 5570, but I don't have interlaced video.
If I can sell my motherboard, CPU and video card, it would cost me next to nothing to go to an A6-3500.

But I guess I'll just be on the hunt for a PCI-E card with an internal header.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffkro View Post

Yes, there is definitely something better around the corner, but probably not cheaper. Both intel ivy bridge and amd trinity should be a fairly big improvement over whats offered now. I do agree you can cheaply get a usb 3 pcie card, but the more cards you add the more power you consume.

Thanks guys.
post #724 of 880
Quote:
Originally Posted by rahzel View Post

That seems to only have internal ports. I would want 2 rear and an internal header for my case. Plus I need a half-height one so I would have to look for a HH bracket. Anyone know of any other cards with an internal header?

But the A6-3500 is a triple-core. The A6-3500 scores over double the AMD 250 in passmark IIRC. I think the HD6510 is a little slower than the 5570, but I don't have interlaced video.
If I can sell my motherboard, CPU and video card, it would cost me next to nothing to go to an A6-3500.

But I guess I'll just be on the hunt for a PCI-E card with an internal header.

Thanks guys.

Amazon has a "Syba 3 Port USB 3.0 PCI-e Card with 1 Internal Header (SD-PEX20080)". I assume there are others.
post #725 of 880
I saw that one, but the reviews are pretty bad. Plus it's a regular female USB 3.0 port, not a motherboard header port. I have a PCI-E USB 3.0 card, but there's no internal header. I've bought a header to female USB 3.0 adapter from monoprice and ran a USB 3.0 cable to my rear port, but it doesn't seem to work (seems like not enough power is going to the front ports). Using that Syba would be almost the same situation, unless that internal USB 3.0 port supplies more power than a single USB 3.0 port on the back of my PCI-E card.
post #726 of 880
I recently built an A8-3850 based HTPC to move into the living room. The only issue I have with the Llano is the damn 29/59 bug. Disabling the "Enable Dynamic Contrast" seemed to help the most, but to my eye it is the stuttering is still there.

My previous HTPC had a nvidia gt430, so I never noticed it.
post #727 of 880
Hello!

I'm actually considering the Llano chip (either the A4-3400 or the A6-3500) for my 1st HTPC.

I do have some constraints :
  • I plan to run on Linux btw. I know drivers aren't the best and it's possible I cannot use hardware decoding with the actual drivers.
  • 120W PSU only.
  • Game emulators (optional)
Some questions comes to mind before I purchase :
  • Considering that for the first few months (waiting for better support under Linux), the HTPC might only do software decode, is 120W enough for the A6-3500 and the A4-3400?
  • Are they powerful enough to software decode 1080p files?
  • Are the CPU powerful enough do deinterlace 480i and 720i materials?
  • Are both CPU able to run game emulators?
  • As a side question : both CPU are rated 65W but one is a triple-core. Under the same task, will they have the same power consumption?
  • What are the main drawback of using the Llano CPU for an HTPC?
Here's the parts in the HTPC I plan to do :
A6-3500 or A4-3400
Asrock A75M-ITX
2G RAM
2.5" HDD (120GB)
USB IR receiver
Habey EMC-800B
XBMC software



Thanks a lot for your help!
post #728 of 880
If anyone cares, I managed to find a PCI-E USB 3.0 card with a 19/20 pin connector and 2 rear ports on ebay. It's from a Hong Kong seller, but I've decent experience with USB 3.0 parts from ebay.

Thanks to those who guided me in that direction. Saved me the hassle of selling my old parts and building a new system.
post #729 of 880
Quote:
Originally Posted by rahzel View Post

If anyone cares, I managed to find a PCI-E USB 3.0 card with a 19/20 pin connector and 2 rear ports on ebay. It's from a Hong Kong seller, but I've decent experience with USB 3.0 parts from ebay.

Thanks to those who guided me in that direction. Saved me the hassle of selling my old parts and building a new system.

BTW, I think the reason Silverstone built that EC01 with only an internal header and no back panel ports is because most of the new motherboards have back panel USB 3.0 ports but very very few have a USB 3.0 internal headers. So some of the cases with front panel 3.0 ports use that ridiculous long wire to run through the case, and out the back, to plug into a rear port. This is why they sell the internal header only card. They also sell it as an EC03 with front bay panel with two USB 3.0 ports in the event your case doesn't have them. I bought a Gigabyte GA-Z68MX-UD2H-B3 motherboard recently for a desktop build just because it has an internal USB 3.0 header. Had this Silverstone adapter existed then, I probably would have bought a different board and the EC01.

I really don't understand why more motherboards don't include the internal header since most new case designs now have USB 3.0 front ports.
post #730 of 880
Ya, I figured so. I wish they made a model with at least 1 port on the back; all I really need is 1 on the back and 1 on the front.
My motherboard understandably doesn't have an internal header as it's an older AM2+ board. But ya... more boards should have the internal header. Only 1 AM3 board has it AFAIK. I'm sure the newer chipsets will have them.
post #731 of 880
Quote:
Originally Posted by rahzel View Post

Ya, I figured so. I wish they made a model with at least 1 port on the back; all I really need is 1 on the back and 1 on the front.
My motherboard understandably doesn't have an internal header as it's an older AM2+ board. But ya... more boards should have the internal header. Only 1 AM3 board has it AFAIK. I'm sure the newer chipsets will have them.

I think there are a grand total of three LGA1155 motherboards with internal USB 3.0 headers, or that's all there were when I was looking a couple of months ago. Maybe there are more now.
post #732 of 880
post #733 of 880
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...866&CatId=7243

Great price for anyone interested.

err
post #734 of 880
Quote:
Originally Posted by Balinus View Post

[*] I plan to run on Linux btw. I know drivers aren't the best and it's possible I cannot use hardware decoding with the actual drivers.

You're probably better off asking in the Linux subforum.
The AMD drivers basically can't do interlacing as well as the nvidia drivers (MythTV supports nVidia's API the best).
DeInterlacing probably isn't an issue because most TVs and receivers have good decoders nowadays unless you buy the cheapest gear.

I'd put a bit more than a 120W PS into it because the chip can use that much at full speed doing graphics...
post #735 of 880
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenyee View Post

You're probably better off asking in the Linux subforum.
The AMD drivers basically can't do interlacing as well as the nvidia drivers (MythTV supports nVidia's API the best).
DeInterlacing probably isn't an issue because most TVs and receivers have good decoders nowadays unless you buy the cheapest gear.

I'd put a bit more than a 120W PS into it because the chip can use that much at full speed doing graphics...

Thanks for your answer! I don't have a lot of interlaced content, so if the hrdware can do an "OK" job, it might suffice.

Ok, I'll check if I can find another case with more power than 120W.

Thanks!
post #736 of 880
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenyee View Post

I'd put a bit more than a 120W PS into it because the chip can use that much at full speed doing graphics...

For what it's worth I have an A6-3650 (a 100w part) running (seemingly) happily on a 150w power supply and although I haven't really put it under that much combined stress, it has run Prime95 for 8 hours and it's ripped two DVDs, all without issue.

It's also well-worth looking in to reducing the CPU voltage as a 0.3v reduction to mine reduced the temperature whilst running Prime95 from 65C+ to 47C without any loss of performance or stability!
post #737 of 880
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neimad View Post

For what it's worth I have an A6-3650 (a 100w part) running (seemingly) happily on a 150w power supply and although I haven't really put it under that much combined stress, it has run Prime95 for 8 hours and it's ripped two DVDs, all without issue.

It's also well-worth looking in to reducing the CPU voltage as a 0.3v reduction to mine reduced the temperature whilst running Prime95 from 65C+ to 47C without any loss of performance or stability!

ok, thanks for your input! I guess then that a 65W TDP APU should run well with a 120W PSU...

Do you think that the A4-3400 and the A6-3500 will have a similar consumption? I don't know much about these figures but instinctively, having 3 cores vs 2 cores should result in more power consumption no?
post #738 of 880
Quote:
Originally Posted by Balinus View Post

ok, thanks for your input! I guess then that a 65W TDP APU should run well with a 120W PSU...

Do you think that the A4-3400 and the A6-3500 will have a similar consumption? I don't know much about these figures but instinctively, having 3 cores vs 2 cores should result in more power consumption no?

There really hasn't been much information on the dual core llano's. But I would guess the A4 would have lower power consumption because it has half the graphics cores.
post #739 of 880
post #740 of 880
Quote:
Originally Posted by Balinus View Post


ok, thanks for your input! I guess then that a 65W TDP APU should run well with a 120W PSU...

Do you think that the A4-3400 and the A6-3500 will have a similar consumption? I don't know much about these figures but instinctively, having 3 cores vs 2 cores should result in more power consumption no?

Well I am running an A6-3500 with two dual tuner TV cards, an SSD and a BD drive on a 90W picoPSU with no problems at all.
post #741 of 880
Quote:
Originally Posted by politby View Post

Well I am running an A6-3500 with two dual tuner TV cards, an SSD and a BD drive on a 90W picoPSU with no problems at all.

Wow! I guess I should worry less then. Especially since I'll only have a HDD and that's it!

Thanks for your input and numbers!

I'm still torn between the A4 or A6-3500....I'm giving me another couples of days before making the final decision. At least now, numbers from the field are reassuring. Thanks again!
post #742 of 880
^ its doubtful that you're going to notice any difference between the two, especially if all you do is watch movies on it.
post #743 of 880
Roughly

- CPU: A6-3500 is 10-15% better than A4-3400. A6-3500 is (barely) enough for 2D->3D (~75% CPU usage).
- GPU: A6-3500 is 20-25% better than A4-3400.
- Power consumption at idle: The same (38W).
- Power consumption at video playback: A6-3500 consumes a few watts more (50-70W depending on where decode is done).
- Power consumption at Prime95+FurMark: 120W, 105W respectively.

Power consumption is AC draw of the total system (APU, mb, 2x2GB RAM, 1xHDD, PSU). Max DC draw is ~100W, ~87W. So a 120W PSU should be enough. Overall I prefer A6-3500 to A4-3400.

As for madVR (under Windows of course), both are underpowered for SD video at HQ (GPU is too weak) and HD interlaced video (CPU is too weak).
post #744 of 880
Thanks everyone! It is comforting to see those numbers.

Indeed, 95% of the use will be watching movie, so I guess either CPU will do fine with my 120W PSU. Maybe later on I might install some emulators, hence the hesitation between the A4 and A6-3500.

Thanks for your help!
post #745 of 880
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffkro View Post

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...866&CatId=7243

Great price for anyone interested.

err

Yes- that is a great price, assuming you actually fill out the rebate and file it AND you get the rebate amount back. From my perspective, it's a LITTLE bit limited due to only one digital video output, but that will probably not matter to the vast majority of HTPC users. Otherwise, it even has a legacy PCI slot, though it doesn't have an IDE/PATA port. But time marchs on: even I installed Windows 7 from an USB memory stick on my recently purchased 880G MB.

In addition, it gets five eggs with 5 reviews at Newegg.
post #746 of 880
BTW, Video Compression Engine (VCE) = Intel's QuickSync.
I wish Trinity were already available. Q2 is wayyy too far away...figure it'll be more like end of next summer the way things are going w/ AMD's schedules :-P
post #747 of 880
Quote:
Originally Posted by carljanderson View Post

I recently built an A8-3850 based HTPC to move into the living room. The only issue I have with the Llano is the damn 29/59 bug. Disabling the "Enable Dynamic Contrast" seemed to help the most, but to my eye it is the stuttering is still there.

My previous HTPC had a nvidia gt430, so I never noticed it.

Can you explain this a bit? I've done some searching, and I see that this has to do w/ the refresh rate... is there a workaround? Is a fix on the way? Is this worth steering clear of Llano for a HTPC? Thanks!
post #748 of 880
Hi i saw that slide so does it mean Trinity will work on current A75 mobos? What about A55?
post #749 of 880
Trinity should work with any A55/A75/A85X chipset Socket FM1/FM2 motherboard.
post #750 of 880
Ok good to know and thank you :P
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